225hp n/a p5

[stdntDrvr]

is that possible?
that's my goal...here's what i've done and what i plan to do...any other ideas would be GREATLY appreciated.

so far:
injen cai
j-spec cams
ur crank pulley
rm header (be here next week)
MP3 ecu
1.8L Updated Coil/wires
Mazdaspeed P5 axle-back
Iridium plugs

i plan on adding:
AWR Motor Mounts
nology plug wires
UR Flywheel
ACT Street Performance clutch
Braided Clutch Line
FS-ZE intake manifold
FS-ZE 10.4:1 Pistons
Forged Rods
Auto-Exe Rare Earth Grounding Kit
Quaife ATD Ltd Slip Differential
cam gears

i plan on doing the pistons and cam gears at the same time and having the car tuned.

is there anything else or any suggestions for me meeting my goal?

Thanks!

[jersey_emt]

Over 100HP/liter for a NA engine seems very unlikely or even impossible...but I don't know for sure...you're talking about more than doubling the stock HP without a turbo or supercharger...

[sidpro5]

I'd have to suggest a full cat-back as opposed to the axle -back. Also go with a high flow secondary cat, unless you plan on removing it (obviously!) Since your engine will be ingesting and combusting larger air/fuel quantities, it'll need to expell all that. Don't go with anything to large in diameter as you will lose too much backpressure (and torque), but it definately will need to breathe better, not just inhale better. MHO. But at any rate, that's going to be quite a trick to get 225hp. Good luck.

[stdntDrvr]

yeah, once the header gets here i'll be cat-less...i wasn't sure if i should open up the exhaust more or not...so i had planned on sticking with the axle-back...but i SHOULD go with a cat back?
Thanks!

[Antoine]

Check out our new Engine management / Tuning forum...you're going to need one! Oh...and head work.

[ARunto]

to get 225whp you would need some higher compression pistons 12to1 to 13to1 range and some really big cams.

-Alan

[sidpro5]

I would reccommend it, but I'm far from an authority on such things. But think of it this way......If you're running a marathon, you need to breathe good, right? Now, how would you feel if you could inhale great, but when you went to exhale, you could only do it through your nose? Try it. Take a deep breath through your mouth, then exhale through your nose ONLY. Feels restricted, and takes longer to remove the wasted oxygen (exhaust). Therefore, it takes longer to be able to take in fresh new oxygen that has the needed components to get your engine to run. Just a crazy thought.....All I know is that I've noticed increased (slightly) performance on a stock 2.0 with a full cat-back.

[stdntDrvr]

right, i didn't want to free it up too much...i guess as long as i don't have a 4" pipe on my cat-back, i'll be fine.

[1338]

Over 100HP/liter for a NA engine seems very unlikely or even impossible...but I don't know for sure...you're talking about more than doubling the stock HP without a turbo or supercharger...
?
just about every honda motor is doing this.

[Kooldino]

Topher - with those mods, you don't even have a shot at 200hp, let alone 225.

[stdntDrvr]

which is why i'm asking for suggestions.

[Kooldino]

Turbo, NOS.

Head work might get you in the general vicinity of 200, but stil not.

[stdntDrvr]

n/a...and it can be done...just ask sunbelt racing.

[enry]

RSX-S hits 200 hp / 2L and that's with VVT on both intake and exhaust valves. Good luck!!!

[Matthew]

better off with turbo, youll spend less money in the long run.

but if you have your mind set, you can throw in water pump/alt pulleys, head work, port polish intake manifold, full engine management, bigger throttle body, more agressive cams than the j-spec.

dont spend the money on the HKS ground wire kit, make your own.

[SuperSpud]

arent the tri point proteges putting down something like 200 whp? and their pretty maxed out.. its going to take A LOT of money to get you to anywhere near 200 whp.

port and polish, HIGH comp. pistons, engine managment, catless exhaust, headers, intake, new cams, valves and valvsprings, etc.. LOTS of money man....

[jersey_emt]

?
just about every honda motor is doing this.
But there's very few Protege motors doing this. Honda is a completely different game.

[Matthew]

well he did say 225hp not 225whp so he may be able to get that.

[stdntDrvr]

you people need to have a little faith in the 2.0

[thewrench]

Topher, you coming to the meet next weekend. I can go over why 225whp is really out of reach there, but, geez, it's just too much to rehash here.

[DiscreetSpeed]

definitley possible...i dont think 10.4:1 compression will do it though..may need to step it up....bore the block some....race port head as well as your tb and intake manifold, full exhaust- bigger primaries on the header and a header back exhaust. bump the fuel components up and some tuning..put you clean over 200. and for a n/a 2.0 daily driven ride thats pretty impressive.

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

definitley possible...i dont think 10.4:1 compression will do it though..may need to step it up....bore the block some....race port head as well as your tb and intake manifold, full exhaust- bigger primaries on the header and a header back exhaust. bump the fuel components up and some tuning..put you clean over 200. and for a n/a 2.0 daily driven ride thats pretty impressive.


with the higher compression and larger cams how tame is it going to run on the street though? and as far as i can tell u better be putting 93 octane in that bitch.

[MP3skaterNC]

Wow, you guys are pretty against all motor huh? Heres what I'd do.


Ditch the ms cams, get some custom ground to be more agressive than those
Cam gears, to get the most out of those cams
some lighter valve springs, and valves, I think MP3racer is going to be selling these soon.
A good header that flows well
2.5" cat-back
Some kind of engine management. probably haltech, or maybe the aem?
An intake manifold
Bigger throtle body
Take all the rotating assembly out, get it ballanced
forged rods
high comp pistions, probably should go higher than the jdm ones
pulleys


Now rev that bitch to like 7500, and I dont see why at least 200whp isn't possible.

[mp3moose]

I plan on milling the head to raise my compression even more to at least 11.5 and running octane boost for about 97. And individual throttle bodies would be nice. Management is definately somthing close in my future (advance timing a few degrees, and lean out that mixture). You'd need at least this to get close not to mention the headed work and free exhaust and cams.
moose

[thewrench]

MP3skater, that's exactly the idea and my plan, except for maybe the high comp pistons. Except, to be streetable I don't bebieve you'll make more than 180 or so. The WC cars make 225, but their powerband doesn't really start until over something like 5000rpm. Also, remember they cost over 10 grand and they have to be rebuilt all the time. I ran my plan-cams,cam gears, street ported intake mani, header, exhaust- by one of the guys at Sunbelt and I said I wanted to make 140 from that, and he said probably not, even with using their cams. So I figure adding pistons, again streetable (93 octane), I might be able to hit around 150. Add the AEM to that and hopefully, it'll make 180. That's no headwork, but he said there's not much to be made from that, there's much more to be made in the intake mani. That agrees with what Perfworks has said previously. I really don't think i'll make that, but I'll be happy to hit 170 at the wheels.

[melicha8]

You won't be able to get that much hp from this engine and keep it a reliable daily driver. Tri point rebuilds their engines every five or so races where as every other team on the speed world challenge does it just once at the beginning of the season.

A lot of those parts will not get you there. You would have to make custom ground cams for starters and I will tell you right now your drivability will go down the toilet when you get cams to specs necessary for your goals.

When you start getting power parts you will also get a "give a mouse a cookie effect" where those parts will require other parts.

[Roywhitep5]

buy a used s2000.

[twilightprotege]

well looks like i'm a bit late jumping in on this thread.

225hp at the crank? possible? yes.

first of all, ditch the rm header. our engines will never rev enough to get the full advantage out of a 4-1 design. also ditch the j-spec cams etc. they suck. you'll be wanting even larger than my cams (as far as i am aware i have the largest cams in a street P5)

2nd, major head work, larger valves, esp on the exhaust side (they are piddly compaired to the intake side)

3rd, HC pistons. dont mill the head as a easier alternative

4th, new IM. you could get away with a single TB, but quads would be better

5th, lighten the hell out of the stock crank, and use forged aluminium rods instead of the pauter rods. you should rev to 8000rpm no problem now

6th, individual coil packs. nology setup wont do squat

and the most important thing - standalone ecu. without it you have no chance.

for all those sceptics out there....when i have my full exhaust system on i'll hope to be getting 150whp....and that'll be at 6500rpm (my rev limit). 150whp is about 200hp at the crank, give or take.....

[shinzen]

The route I am going is definitely N/A- fortunately for me andrew is testing out the mods for me! Good luck, I think all the points have been hit above

[mp5smuggler]

no cause i put down 200 w/o a turbo or a superchager. if you simply want to make it 200 hp for a street race and not worry about doing any real damage to the engine simply get the j spec cams the j spec intake manifold. thats all you need. oh and get a bottle and give it a 55 shot and your there. easy and streetable.

[thewrench]

twilight- just so you know, the RM header is 4-2-1. It's the Ractive header that's 4-1.

[SuperSpud]

no matter what he is doing, he is going to have to get a full head job, and prolly bore it out a little... you ppl are failing to realize how hard it is to get hp once you get up around the 175-180 mark while going N/A...

there was a magazine a while back that was trying to get 200whp out of a honda b16c... they were having a VERY hard time doing it.. and they start off with about 30 more hp than the protege... granted, it was only a 1.6 liter, but still.. honda motors are VERY well built and VERY easily tuned... not to mention the millions of performance part for them

[Subghetto]

In the longrun you will spend more $$$$ and time to get 225hp n/a then throwing on a hi-boost kit and getting 210hp.

[mp5jeff]

225hp or 225 WHP?? completely different numbers, id like to know which one you are aiming for. If its 225WHP you are looking for, haha good luck with that one n/a on this motor.

[pr5owner]

screw the axel back.. get a test pipe, one big strait pipe out the side.. you will not get anywhere close to 200 without it

[stdntDrvr]

twilight, where'd you get your cams?

[Replica]

This is funny, people are debating exhasts in a thread where someone is trying to get 120 more whp going n/a. Hahahah, funny shit.

[sidpro5]

I wasn't so much debating the exhaust issue, just pointing out that with so much more air/fuel coming in, it needs more room to go out. Just going with what I have experience with. I know for a fact that it won't help a whole lot, but it'll be better than an axle back, and when it comes to these engines, I haven't done much of anything else. Just giving my two cents. Glad you found it amusing.

[igdrasil]

yo can do it...

260HP Protege from ARC Racing

http://home.coqui.net/igdrasil/gallery/prgp/prgprix10.jpg

[Replica]

Race team budget > Private individual income

[SuperSpud]

race team r&d > private r&d.......

[twilightprotege]

wrench - damn, got confused about the headers ;)

topher - i have custom cams....i bought the blanks through mitch @ p5online.com and he got them through mazdamotorsports....my specs actually fit on them without having to reduce the base circle :D

p5owner - as long as the exhaust is mandrel bent and the mufflers/resonators are straight through design, they loose almost nothing over a straight exhaust. if you have a swap pipe for the cat you'll have no worries.

all - it still can be done....just watch me ;)

[mazdamp3_18]

you can get the engine that is used in the speedworld challenge cars for about 15 grand...

as i realized going n/a is NOT worth it ...

i saw the light and went the turbo route ....


160whp is doable n/a...

headwork ... compression around 12-13:1 compression...
and lots of tuning..

and not to mention you will need to run 100 oct or higher daily to stop detonation...

[igdrasil]

thats correct...I talked to that people, the MOTEC Tunner was there, talked to him too. They said its very expensive to do that job, plus the engine does not HOLD that kind of ABUSE (driving on high rpms for extended periods of time).
The engine suffers a lot of wear and tear...But is a very fast car.

I have some video clips if anyone want to see how they run, they sound like a fly in an ear.

[twizyours]

It is very possible with waht you got listed. You wont be able to without ecu tuning though. With ecu tuning and high comp pistons it is very possible, you will probalyy have to get more agrressive cams though. Also 220 hp to the wheels and flywheel is two different things. 220 to the flywheel most deffinettly in my oppinion but their is going to be alot of trail and area since know one has really pushed even near that yet. You have no guidline what works and what doesnt. Also their have been alot fo dyno charts with catback, headers intkae and thats all making 115 hp and 120 hp, that is a big jump for just so few mods. Do the search and you will fine the post. Our biggest bottle neck in my oppinion is cams and header from factory.

[twilightprotege]

yes the stock cams are way to small for any decent power

[SpicyMchaggis]

Right now I'm looking into getting an FS-ZE intake manifold ported and polished. I'm also coupling a polished corksport throttle body to the mani. Soon as wagner finished his header, that will be on as well. My goal is to hit 170whp. Enough for me. Thus far I have a 2.5" bosal cat-back system with the cat removed, SUN grounding system, AEM-SRI (which I just sold for an INJEN-CAI) NGK Plugs, Sparkco Wires, etc etc..My next step is the having the intake mani polished..That and steal a lot of money for the project.

[twilightprotege]

personally i wouldnt get the fs-ze IM. it's still not a dual runner design. as far as i'm aware it only has slightly larger runners. you'd be better off just porting and flowing the original IM. cheaper and will give the same results. the race protege's use the original IM

[night rider]

why dont u want to get forced induction ? ? ? ?

[stdntDrvr]

i dunno really...i've thought about the hiboost...but that's dropping 4K at once...you can piece together a n/a set-up.

[Subghetto]

what about the essential speed custom intake manifold for the P5? here is the link to check it out-http://essentialspeed.com/shop/detail.asp?product_id=EsManifoldsproto50004&&cat=&category=&cat1=15&cat2=

[twilightprotege]

personally i'm going na because this car will be my wife's car and a turbo is pretty much wasted on her, but i still want to play in the mean time. also, na is a lot easier and doesnt require as much constant maintenance

[shinzen]

Unfortunately Kevin hasn't finished that one up yet- the more people that email him demonstrating interest the better shot we have at him producing it

what about the essential speed custom intake manifold for the P5? here is the link to check it out-http://essentialspeed.com/shop/detail.asp?product_id=EsManifoldsproto50004&&cat=&category=&cat1=15&cat2=

[SpicyMchaggis]

the FS-ZE i'm referring to IS dual-runner.

[FrigginGLI]

I think a more feasible target is 150 whp N/A. You aren't going to get over that without some serious mods. A basic turbo kit will put you over that thoe.

[thewrench]

Spicy-are you refeerring to the jspec mani at corksport?

[twilightprotege]

it's not a dual runner. it's only slightly different to what you have now.

[SpicyMchaggis]

Yeah, that style I suppose. I wasn't planning on picking it up from those graverobbers though. Although, the do distinctly say its dual runner.




it's not a dual runner. it's only slightly different to what you have now.

[twilightprotege]

they do, but they also claim it'll raise the power to j-spec range (bs), but it is definately not a true dual runner (ie two runners going from the plenum to the head).

[thewrench]

If you want to read a long discussion on it read this thread:

http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb225/showthread.php?t=43406

especially from around the middle on. The major difference between the jspec and the uspec is the added resonance chamber. The castings are obviously different, and there maybe some slight differences in the runner length and cross section area, but the runner/VICS design is the same (proven by twilight)

edit: oh damn, didn't mean to be ganging up on you.

[akhilleus]

Clearly for the cost of the corksport jdm IM you could get a piggyback and easily gain more power. Either way you will need an ems to ever see any real power. Also the jdm Im will throw CEL due to lack of VTCS i believe. Its a colossal waste of money and the TB has also been deemed to expensive to justify. do it like this
aggressive cams
P&P
full exhaust
ems
cam gears
maybe HC pistons
i bet u could do 170whp with that.. maybe some fuel mods too.
but u would have to reinforce your tranny

[mp5jeff]

Clearly for the cost of the corksport jdm IM you could get a piggyback and easily gain more power. Either way you will need an ems to ever see any real power. Also the jdm Im will throw CEL due to lack of VTCS i believe. Its a colossal waste of money and the TB has also been deemed to expensive to justify. do it like this
aggressive cams
P&P
full exhaust
ems
cam gears
maybe HC pistons
i bet u could do 170whp with that.. maybe some fuel mods too.
but u would have to reinforce your trannyi don't see over a 70whp gain with those mods...id love to see someone prove me wrong though! lol

[akhilleus]

if u tune it right u could easily.

[twilightprotege]

well i'm aiming for 150whp...and that's with 9.7:1 pistons and no aftermarket ems

[Big Dog]

Can somebody help me, Can a MP3 ECU fit a MP5? and what is a "Grounding Wire" for?
Dog

[shinzen]

Dog- yes the p3 ecu will plug right in, but there isn't really an advantage other than having to run premium gas all the time-
I don't think you'll need to reinforce your tranny though, the turbo guys are putting that down without issues

[stdntDrvr]

shinzen,
actually, you have better throttle response...adds 10hp (NOT whp)...idles smoother...lower rpm's at highway speeds...so, you kinda make up for running $$$ gas. so yes, the mp3 ecu is worth it.

[shinzen]

This has been debated plenty of times- the extra hp does not come just from the ecu plug in- it is also the lack of vtcs in the intake manifold and less emissions control- I wish I could plug in the ecu and bam! have more hp, but alas it is not so

[Kooldino]

n/a...and it can be done...just ask sunbelt racing.
They're also like $20K race engines that die every month or so. And they only have 240hp.

[batmang]

if you got money, anythings possible. <----

[Turbo Matty P]

<~~~also shooting for 170whp....that should be almost 190fwhp. I plan on using the Perfworks AEM ECU, Wagner EL header, DP, MP, MSP axelback, custom ground cams by Perf.

I think I'm right on target. I'm also looking at about $2500 for everything. should be fun to see. I guess a clutch would be a good idea also!

[stdntDrvr]

how much are your cams and the ecu gonna cost?

[Turbo Matty P]

cams should be about $400-$450 and the ECU is yet unpriced. (est. $1300 range)

[stdntDrvr]

hmmm...maybe i should look into the cams...i'll have to save for the ecu.

[stdntDrvr]

you really should come over for the GA meet sunday.

[Turbo Matty P]

The cams will be nice, and will not require cam gears since they will be made specifically for my exsisting set-up. Also the only reason I'm doing any of this is for Andy and Nick's ECU. That thing can control everything!

I'd go to the GA meet, but I'm the forums most hated individual. Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, guess I'll go eat worms....

[stdntDrvr]

dude, you really should come...i think i'm the only one that'll be there with a laser blue p5...so we'll have something to bs about. i really want to get a good look at your audio set-up as well. so, come over and we'll have a few beers.

[Equinox]

well with
2.5" mandrel bent exhaust all the way back NO CATS
Straight through muffler
Catless AWR Header
Fidanza 5.9 lb flywheel
Clutchmaster Stage I Clutch
Injen Cold Air Intake

I managed 150hp, 118whp, from a stock 98whp

The biggest gain was the 11 whp from the header alone

Then to get 20 more whp I suggest
Port match the heads to the gaskets
Polish the heads
Ground out the Valves to 1.5mm over
Replace valves with stainless steel manleys

That's 170hp, 138whp

Another 10whp
Add MP3 ECU
Port match the Intake manifold to gasket, remove and weld up VTCS holes, keep VTCS solenoid plugged in, but not controlling anything (no CEL)
Polish Intake Manifold
Add NGK Extended Reach V shaped Spark Plugs, range 7

That's 180hp, 148whp

Another 5 whp
Add JDM FD-ZE Intake camshaft
Add Mazdaspeed Exhaust camshaft

That's 185hp, 153whp

Another 5 hp + more midrange
Add Tri-point Adjustable camgears, optimize timing
Add AEM Stand Alone from Wagner/PerfWorks, Optimize fuel

That's 190hp, 158whp

Add corksport's high compression pistons - Anyone know the gain on these?

If I think of anything else, I'll edit this post.

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=10021

[Turbo Matty P]

link me to the Meet thread. I'll see what I can do. I'm about 2 hours away from Hot-lanta. How far is it from there? i'd be coming in on I59.

[stdntDrvr]

i'm about an hour and a half south...

http://www.protege5.com/vbb230/showthread.php?t=47053

[2words]

its very possible to get 225hp, do all that stuff you plan on and a 75 shot of nitrous express. and presto u have a beast

[Equinox]

its very possible to get 225hp, do all that stuff you plan on and a 75 shot of nitrous express. and presto u have a beast 75 shot of nitrous is a big presto. Make sure it's a wet shot.


Or just build your engine to an N/A beast, then supercharge it at low boost. YUM YUM, constant nitrous shot. Pretty much. Wagner would be more than willing to supercharge a protege. He already has picture of how he wants to set it up, on his site. He just needs someone to pay for the parts and his time.

[Turbo Matty P]

I'll stick to my ZEX dry kit...very safe, and a very substantial gain in power.

[PR5Matt]

If your are talking wheel HP then you are going to need more compression, and much larger cams, plus a custom intake manifold. (I am from the fOCUS world where we have been f**king with this stuff for a while) Now 200 flywheel HP (about 165-170 whp) might be possible with those parts, but custom cams still might be needed.

(laugh)

[Equinox]

I'll stick to my ZEX dry kit...very safe, and a very substantial gain in power.
I'm saying once you have built your engine n/a it's going to be advanced in timing and have high compression, thus, you will need a wet kit FOR SURE

[Kooldino]

<~~~also shooting for 170whp....that should be almost 190fwhp. I plan on using the Perfworks AEM ECU, Wagner EL header, DP, MP, MSP axelback, custom ground cams by Perf.

I think I'm right on target. I'm also looking at about $2500 for everything. should be fun to see. I guess a clutch would be a good idea also!
If you could get 190fwhp N/A for $2500, then people wouldn't spend twice that to get the power from a turbo. I really don't think you'll get 170whp for $2500 N/A either.

[PR5Matt]

well with
2.5" mandrel bent exhaust all the way back NO CATS
Straight through muffler
Catless AWR Header
Fidanza 5.9 lb flywheel
Clutchmaster Stage I Clutch
Injen Cold Air Intake

I managed 150hp, 118whp, from a stock 98whp

The biggest gain was the 11 whp from the header alone

Then to get 20 more whp I suggest
Port match the heads to the gaskets
Polish the heads
Ground out the Valves to 1.5mm over
Replace valves with stainless steel manleys

That's 170hp, 138whp

Another 10whp
Add MP3 ECU
Port match the Intake manifold to gasket, remove and weld up VTCS holes, keep VTCS solenoid plugged in, but not controlling anything (no CEL)
Polish Intake Manifold
Add NGK Extended Reach V shaped Spark Plugs, range 7

That's 180hp, 148whp

Another 5 whp
Add JDM FD-ZE Intake camshaft
Add Mazdaspeed Exhaust camshaft

That's 185hp, 153whp

Another 5 hp + more midrange
Add Tri-point Adjustable camgears, optimize timing
Add AEM Stand Alone from Wagner/PerfWorks, Optimize fuel

That's 190hp, 158whp

Add corksport's high compression pistons - Anyone know the gain on these?

If I think of anything else, I'll edit this post.

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=10021
Are you using a Mustang Chassis Dyno, or a Dynojet Chassis Dyno?

Also: Take your flywhp and multiply by .15 (for manual trans or .20-.23 for auto), then take that number and subtract form your estimated flywhp to get an estimated whp. For the opposite just add the number to the whp to get flywhp.

i.e. 118whp = 135.7 flywhp

[Turbo Matty P]

only time will tell. I'll just have to get everything on the car and do some runs before we start saying "yeah or nay".

[Equinox]

I'm taking what the dealership says is at the flywheel, and then taking what the car is measured at the wheels stock. 98 whp, and 130hp flywheel. That is my only usage of drivetrain loss, because that IS the drivetrain loss.

[shinzen]

Actually it depends on the car for that particular conversion- we have a bit more loss through the transmission(about 25%)- stock we push 130hp and about 98whp so the equation is more along the lines of (whpX1.25) will give you a fairly accurate indicator with that being said 118X1.25=147.5

[PR5Matt]

I'm taking what the dealership says is at the flywheel, and then taking what the car is measured at the wheels stock. 98 whp, and 130hp flywheel. That is my only usage of drivetrain loss, because that IS the drivetrain loss.

Are you sure? Mazda did get into some trouble a while back with over-rated Miatas. Though I will admit that the PR5 does feel like 130hp. Though not quite as strong as my fOCUS with supposedly 130hp (stock 110whp). The PR5 has much lower gears than the fOCUS so that helps equal out stock to stock acceleration.

[Equinox]

Are you sure? Mazda did get into some trouble a while back with over-rated Miatas. Though I will admit that the PR5 does feel like 130hp. Though not quite as strong as my fOCUS with supposedly 130hp (stock 110whp). The PR5 has much lower gears than the fOCUS so that helps equal out stock to stock acceleration.
That's a whole different thread. I wasn't stopping to question Mazda's rating.

[SpicyMchaggis]

Hey equinox, if you had to rough estimate, how much would it cost to feasibly get to 150WHP. Keep in mind I'm already getting a FS-ZE intake manifold honed and polished and a corksport 60mm throttle body, and a hopefully by spring a perf piggyback..And I already have an MP3 ecu.

[PR5Matt]

I wish there was an easy way to swap the new fOCUS/Mazda 3/Mazda 6 Duratec 2.3 (Ford/Cosworth designed) into our PR5s. Just an example of the performance of the 2.3 (remember that for now that the fOCUS only has the Partial Zero Emissions engine [145hp])

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7280

[PR5Matt]

That's a whole different thread. I wasn't stopping to question Mazda's rating.
Don't feel bad, fOCUSes range from 100whp-115whp stock, because Ford did not see fit to put a pin or keyway on the cam gears so they are all in different positions from the factory.

[SpicyMchaggis]

Apparently, SVT focus motors fit in our cars. Someone the boards was ranting about how he's done a bunch of research on it or something. It would be interesting to see.

[Turbo Matty P]

my 3.0L SHO motor will "fit in our cars" but not without EXTENSIVE work. I can't imagine the SVT Zetec motor being a bolt-in job...the trannys are different, the computers a re different, everything is different.

[stdntDrvr]

i'm gonna drop in the 3-cyl Geo Metro motor in...do you think i can hit my goal with that one?

[Turbo Matty P]

sure, just hit it with nitrous!

[stdntDrvr]

sweet!

[Turbo Matty P]

Dude,....you gettin NAAAWWWWSSSSS!!

[twilightprotege]

all i can say is you need custom cams. us aussies get the j-spec intake cam as stock and higher compression and no vcts...our engine is rated at 98kw - ie apx 98whp. custom cams are definately required for anything 130whp up

[stdntDrvr]

so, who do i need to talk to about these cams?

[DayOh257]

Over 100HP/liter for a NA engine seems very unlikely or even impossible...but I don't know for sure...you're talking about more than doubling the stock HP without a turbo or supercharger...
Honda S2k puts out 240 hp from a 2.0L 4-cyl. It can be done.

Our stock 2.0L is rated for 130hp at the crank (Correct me if I'm wrong)

Doesn't the stock JDM motor put out close to 160-170hp???

Theres gotta be a way! Topher, don't give up!!

[twilightprotege]

0.400" lift, 276deg duration @ 0.006", 228deg duration @ 0.050"

^^^^ 200whp cams ^^^^

i have 0.355" lift, 272deg duration @ 0.006", 226deg duration @ 0.050"

[Equinox]

Hey equinox, if you had to rough estimate, how much would it cost to feasibly get to 150WHP. Keep in mind I'm already getting a FS-ZE intake manifold honed and polished and a corksport 60mm throttle body, and a hopefully by spring a perf piggyback..And I already have an MP3 ecu.
About 2,500$

[Kooldino]

i'm gonna drop in the 3-cyl Geo Metro motor in...do you think i can hit my goal with that one?
I know a 3cyl metro that will smoke my car.

[stdntDrvr]

i wouldn't come on a forum and admit that.

[Equinox]

Topher, KoolDino is faster than you, that's what he means. The geo is fast.

[stdntDrvr]

i was JOKING. it's quite obvious when someone's sig reads:

Yellow MP3
Spool Stage 2/3 @ 8 psi -MPI Tuner Piggyback - 2 x 480cc Bosch injectors before throttle body - Beavis block - custom recirculatiing BOV - Kartboy shift bushings - Whislter Radar Detector - yellow Painted Cals - alarm - tinted windows - yellow Sparkco wires - ACT organic clutch - Fidanza 9lb flyhwheel - Mazda Motorsports front motor mount - 01 LX ECU - TWM short shifter - JoeP MBC - custom 2.5" stainless turbo back exhaust w/ Thermal R&D muffler - UEGO WBO2 sensor - Autometer Phantom 52mm EGT and boost gauges on Autometer gauge works A-Pillar (paint matched) - Westach EGT probe - Summit Racing T-style hose clamps - K&N cone filter - 17x7.5" Rota Battles (thnx, Rishie!) on 215/40/17 SP9000's - (2003 P5 wheels on sp5000's in the winter) - Hawk front brake pads - Powerslot front rotors - Mazda 6 shift knob


They can kick my ass

[Turbo Matty P]

me too dino...it was a supercharged 3cyl running on alcohol.

FWIW, I'd like to see my car with wagner EL header, DP, MP, MSP axelback, custom goround cams and Perfworks ECU....I'd be willing to bet it puts down more than 150-160whp.....p.s. did I mention 96 octane?!?!? Damn us Alabamians and our no emissions testing and 96 octane fuel!!

[Equinox]

Alabama has 96 octane fuel!?! I thought 93 was the highest in the states sold at a station =(

[stdntDrvr]

:) and i live on the GA/AL border!

[twilightprotege]

aussies get 98, but i dont know how our ron compairs to yours

[Turbo Matty P]

Sunoco gas station 96 from the pump!! Also, with 6 gallons of 93 and 1 gallon of Xylene you can make 7 gallons of 96!

[mp5smuggler]

in maryland the sinoco on rt 40 by rolling road sells either 98 or 100 octane

[Equinox]

Sunoco gas station 96 from the pump!! Also, with 6 gallons of 93 and 1 gallon of Xylene you can make 7 gallons of 96!

you keep paint thinner away from my car.

[ARunto]

Sunoco gas station 96 from the pump!! Also, with 6 gallons of 93 and 1 gallon of Xylene you can make 7 gallons of 96!
Where do you get Xylene at?

-Alan

[thewrench]

Turbo Matty- Nick's doing cams for you? D'ya think he'd wanna do more. I'm getting tired of waiting on Sunbelt, and I'd like to hear the specs y'all are working on. If you're at the meet Sun. we can talk.

[twilightprotege]

yeah i'd like to hear the specs too...see how they compair to mine

[Equinox]

Where do you get Xylene at?

-Alan
Paint stores, it's paint thinner.

[Turbo Matty P]

make sure its 100% PURE!! you don't want mixed or diluted stuff!!

[PR5Matt]

my 3.0L SHO motor will "fit in our cars" but not without EXTENSIVE work. I can't imagine the SVT Zetec motor being a bolt-in job...the trannys are different, the computers a re different, everything is different.
Sigh**

I miss my 93 SHO!!! Damn I wish car dealers would quit giving me so much for my used cars and temping me into buying new!!! First the SHO, then the fOCUS, what next??

[Turbo Matty P]

to fit the SHO motor you either have to completely remove the passenger side fender or shorten the drivers axle and move the entire engine/tranny over about 4". This also affects every bit of wiring. Not to mention will severly hamper weight transfer....but good god imagine the burnouts!!

p.s. know anyone who wants a freshly gold-serviced 124K mile SHO engine??

[PR5Matt]

to fit the SHO motor you either have to completely remove the passenger side fender or shorten the drivers axle and move the entire engine/tranny over about 4". This also affects every bit of wiring. Not to mention will severly hamper weight transfer....but good god imagine the burnouts!!

p.s. know anyone who wants a freshly gold-serviced 124K mile SHO engine??
Don't f**king tempt me. I know of another fOCUS I would like to put it in. Or even a Festiva (remember the SHOgun?)

[stdntDrvr]

you'll have penty of time to try that out...while living in a van...down by the river!

[Turbo Matty P]

Guess what?! I know the guy that has the last unused SHOgun kit. he asked me for $1200 for the whole kit!! I had to pass due to money problems!! damnit!!

[bruce95fmla]

I think you could get 225 or 200 hp out of the motor N/A..

plain and simple, you would have to do plenty engine internal work and strengthening(sp) and ditch the mazda ecu and use a stand alone for fine tuning..
Reliability may go out the window though..
-- don't forget high compression motor

[Turbo Matty P]

225hp 2.0L motor is no problem with 12:1 compression, standalone ECU, huge fuel system, custom intake manifold designed for PEAK numbers, not decent powerband, huge catless exhaust with no torque....

yup 225 NA is doable.

[tonkabui]

well, tri point is laying down that figure on their proteges, so i'm sure it's doable. i hear now that they are out of the protege scene and making runs in the mazda 6 now... but i'm not sure about that.

[PR5Matt]

Dude,....you gettin NAAAWWWWSSSSS!!
That's like fingernails on a chawk board. I've even had to bring in pics of my 'Stang's nitrous bottle to prove that it isn't flamable!!!! Damn that F&F!!!!

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

That's like fingernails on a chawk board. I've even had to bring in pics of my 'Stang's nitrous bottle to prove that it isn't flamable!!!! Damn that F&F!!!!
THANK YOU!!! noone believed me it wasn't flammable, its an accelerator not a combustant

[Equinox]

THANK YOU!!! noone believed me it wasn't flammable, its an accelerator not a combustant

well really it's an oxidizer. It just adds oxygen to the flame, ie, makes an existing flame burn brighter. The reason N2O is not flammable is because it takes the high temperatures of 565F of a combustion chamber to break the nitrogen away from the oxygen, at which the oxygen adds more air to the fuel mixture.


Blow N2O on a match or small fire, watch how it gets blown out =p

[PR5Matt]

Just watch the PRESSURE!

[Iconoclast]

dont forget-people will argue till they grow a third nipple bout this- but lightening the car WILL add hp. numbers dont lie

[DayOh257]

dont forget-people will argue till they grow a third nipple bout this- but lightening the car WILL add hp. numbers dont lie
Uh.... I think you mean lightening the engine internals (i.e. forged rods, etc.)
Lightening the car only helps it perform (e.t., acceleration, handling). I don't think it gives the engine any more power....(uhm)

[mp5jeff]

dont forget-people will argue till they grow a third nipple bout this- but lightening the car WILL add hp. numbers dont lie
i hope you are joking, what you just said is like saying "i removed my winshield wipers and gained 2whp" seriously tell me you were kidding....

[twilightprotege]

i think he was referring to the fact that removing weight from the car has the effect of adding hp. ie a 150whp car weighing 2000lbs will be much faster than a 150whp weighing 3000lbs with all else being equal

[akhilleus]

Lightening the vehicle will help. I figured about this 40lbs=1hp+- So 400lbs difference =10hp etc etc. I figured this out through some crazy comparison between vehicles weight. Dont ask me how now since i forgot but it was accurate. When i had 3people in my car the other day =400lbs and it felt like i had lost maybe 8-10hp.. now this isnt added to or subtracted from the hp ratings its just to adjust for perf.

[Togan]

get some body kits that would be pimp

[Aricjm15]

use a sepository before you go to the track

[Stealth5]

?
just about every honda motor is doing this.
every honda motor? shit my friends civic is missing about 40 horses then.

[iam7head]

Yes, it can be done but dont wish it could run on pump gas, full interior


high, high higher compression, bore both manifold and port, regrind cams, maybe 200 hp you'll see

if you think N/A is safer than turbo is the only reason why you wouldnt get a snail, well, you are wrong

[Mike R]

dont forget-people will argue till they grow a third nipple bout this- but lightening the car WILL add hp. numbers dont lie
Ugh, why do people think this? IT DOESN'T ADD HP! It changes the power to weight ratio. The less weight a engine has to move the quicker it can accelerate. It feels like you have more HP, but you don't. It kinda like the arguement about lightweight flywheels ADDDING HP. They don't. The HP was always there, it just frees it up to use it more effectively. It's all about mass and weight and rotation!

Here's a good test to demonstrate. Get a whole bunch of weights. Pick em up and try running. Now run without the weights. Seem faster now don't you. Did you gain strength? NO. You have less weight to move.

[Replica]

dont forget-people will argue till they grow a third nipple bout this- but lightening the car WILL add hp. numbers dont lieRicer alert!(wiggle)

[Equinox]

Ugh, why do people think this? IT DOESN'T ADD HP! It changes the power to weight ratio. The less weight a engine has to move the quicker it can accelerate. It feels like you have more HP, but you don't. It kinda like the arguement about lightweight flywheels ADDDING HP. They don't. The HP was always there, it just frees it up to use it more effectively. It's all about mass and weight and rotation!

Here's a good test to demonstrate. Get a whole bunch of weights. Pick em up and try running. Now run without the weights. Seem faster now don't you. Did you gain strength? NO. You have less weight to move.
you realize you are now arguing about how it is worded, and not whether you are faster or not with less weight?

[Mike R]

you realize you are now arguing about how it is worded, and not whether you are faster or not with less weight?
Well, I guess it all in how you read it. The way you put it is correct. Lighter =faster. From reading his post less wieght gives you more HP. I'm saying that it doesn't give you HP. Lighten a car and throw it on a dyno, see if it makes more HP. It won't. (That can also be proven for the lightweight flywheel, using an engine dyno by testing with the stock, light, and no flywheel, I think)

He is right about the numbers not lying though. But they prove him wrong. If you do the correct calculations for 1/4 mile trap speed and 1/4 mile time using the correct weight of the car the HP will be the same. There will be no increase in HP. The time will be better, but the HP is the same.

[twilightprotege]

light flywheels do add hp because more power is transferred to the wheels rather than spent on turning the flywheel.

but in relation to lighten the car and more hp, that's why i wrote what i did. it doesnt add hp, but it gives the effect of adding hp (better power to weight ratio)

[kylenls]

lightening the body in gernerall wont add horse power but just dcrease weight. but on the other hand lighter and smaller wheels will add horse power.

[twilightprotege]

basically lightening rotational mass increases hp

[Mike R]

OK. But you're kinda contradicting yourself. I understand that there will be a HP gain at the wheels. But the motor is not putting any more HP out, it's just being transferred more efficiently to the wheels.

Bah, I'm done arguing. Now it is arguing about wording.

[twilightprotege]

i should clarrify, hp atw.

[shinzen]

To be fair about this whole discussion however, it is merely the horsepower to weight ratio that is being changed, not the actual hp of the car. With rotational weight on wheels/tires I have seen proofs going a couple of different ways. There is no doubt that it is an advantage, but there is not as much as most people think. Most of it is still in straight weight reduction.

[shinzen]

It will however, become more responsive to your inputs and sensitive to braking/acceleration.

[akhilleus]

Of course u dont actually gain "hp" from weight reduction but it reduces the load on the engine... etc...

[akhilleus]

Of course u dont actually gain "hp" from weight reduction but it reduces the load on the engine... etc...I think the concept is understood... do we need to discuss it any further?