Do I flash?

[eddy]

Hey guys,

I am about to get my MSP flashed on Monday and I was wondering...after the flash, do you get increased horsepower compared to non-flash? Or is it that the flash just illiminates the hesitation and smooths out the powerband?

[Vulcanon]

eliminates hesitation (although some people say it returns) and smooths it out

[jersey_emt]

The flash advances the timing in mid-range RPMS...you will see a HP & TQ increase in the middle of the RPM range. But peak HP/TQ remain about the same.

The extra kick in the midrange helps the hesitation...it still isn't perfect though.

[eddy]

so there is no increased horsepower?

[funnylittlman]

There is in the middle of the power band, but no no TOTAL effect.

[03MSP]

Originally posted by eddy
so there is no increased horsepower?

There is no increased PEAK horsepower. However, there is (supposedly) an increase in midrange horsepower.

[eddy]

so..all in all..you get a faster car simply by the fact that u increase the midrange a bit....i was wondering will there be higher gains from a flashed car vs. non-flashed car when you add mods?

[jersey_emt]

Unflashed can run higher boost compared to a similarly-modded flashed MSP. Advanced timing increases the risk of detonation, so you will detonate at a lower boost level with the flash.

[mspeedpro]

it drives 100x better, extra hp or not

[eddy]

do you guys think that there will be higher gains with a flashed msp when you add bolt-on mods...with stock boost?

[jersey_emt]

The gains for each mod shouldn't be greatly affected by the flash...any difference would most likely not even be noticable.

[RXMmazdaspeed]

my car is flashed.. and i was wondering what would need to be done so that the risk of detonation would be decreased/eliminated so that when i get my boost controller i can raise it safely

[t3ase]

Originally posted by RXMmazdaspeed
my car is flashed.. and i was wondering what would need to be done so that the risk of detonation would be decreased/eliminated so that when i get my boost controller i can raise it safely
without a standalone and proper tuning knowledge, you cannot raise boost safely in our car's situation. you may not blow your engine the first week but it will happen, especially if you get ballsy and get it >10psi.

[RXMmazdaspeed]

is it safe to have it at 8psi daily with no work on the internals? or is even that pushing it?

[t3ase]

Originally posted by RXMmazdaspeed
is it safe to have it at 8psi daily with no work on the internals? or is even that pushing it?
you should be fine as long as you're smart about it but again, that's more than the car is supposed to have. there's no telling.

[RXMmazdaspeed]

i've heard so many mixed opinions on this matter over my time on here.. what would be needed to safely have my car running 8-10 psi daily? *my mods are injen cai and just flash.. this summer getting an fmic/hardpipe kit from either ion or wagner

[t3ase]

to be really safe? wait until you have the fmic.

[RXMmazdaspeed]

so thats all i would need to be able to run 8-10 psi safely?

[bored132]

exhaust also, all that extra air needs to exit effiecently.

colder plugs are a good idea also.

[RXMmazdaspeed]

yea i was thinkin exhaust after the fmic/hardpipe kit.. thanks a lot i can't wait for the summer

[t3ase]

just take your bpipe off in the meantime ;P

[DiscreetSpeed]

id get it flashed...wouldnt worry about the other shit...your probably gonna get a piggy-back or standalone down the road and that will fix the air/fuel and timing.
but the mean time get the flash....or get a fuel pressure regulator and tune it there.

[03MSPRO]

Just do it

[Equinox]

Nike?

[ping]

The increased midrange power is noticable and should result in a performance increase (peak horsepower is almost meaningless - what's important is power over the usable rev range (the "area under the curve"), and the flash gives higher midrange power, thus increasing the area under the curve. IIRC, there's a pretty good (10+HP?) increase at 3500-5000rpm - do a search as there's a graph on here somewhere.

I liked my car pre-flash, but the hesitation was awful. I'm 4kmiles after the flash and lovin' it. None of the previous hesitation has returned.

Oh - for boost over 9psi my vote goes to forged internals first. Too many popped motors for my liking right now, so I'm sticking at stock levels, may add an FMIC if funding permits. Besides - the MSP has "adequate" horsepressure already!

[jersey_emt]

Also, airflow mods (intake, FMIC, full exhaust) while expensive will add a good kick in the pants while still being safe. It will also allow you to run higher boost than you could without those mods, because they all reduce temps.

[ARunto]

I would recommend getting the flash...I will be getting mine flashed. After being on the dyno...I noticed the hesitation. Also I had some pinging at high RPM 9psi so I'd keep the boost at a 8 psi.

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by ARunto
I would recommend getting the flash...I will be getting mine flashed. After being on the dyno...I noticed the hesitation. Also I had some pinging at high RPM 9psi so I'd keep the boost at a 8 psi.
not to get off topic but what made you think that? did you hear it(detonation) i seriously doubt anyone couold hear detonation at that psi? what i mean is if your knockin at such little psi there would be no audible sounds...now if your pumpin 18psi well that may be a different story.
but how do you know?

[wicked]

you can have detonation at 0 psi and slill here it but that little ping will be the death of your engine,it will put presure on the center of the piston till it colapses
i would take precutions first

[BOOSTR]

Get the flash, the hesitation crap sucks. It made me want to pursue the lemon law. There was nothing fun at all about the MSP pre-flash. The symptoms existed both in city and highway driving.

You can boost above 6.9. You do not need internals or FMIC's to get above the factory setting. Get a 2 stage controller and keep stage 1 at factory levels and stage 2 at whatever works for you. Preferably less than 12. You have to allow for weather changes, ie spikes, so don't set it to high.

The MSP will make plenty of real world power in the 6.9 to 12 psi range. You cannot tell me that the Mazda R&D team did not factor increased boost in to the equation.

I am talking about sensible boost, not overboost/abuse!

[ARunto]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
not to get off topic but what made you think that? did you hear it(detonation) i seriously doubt anyone couold hear detonation at that psi? what i mean is if your knockin at such little psi there would be no audible sounds...now if your pumpin 18psi well that may be a different story.
but how do you know?

The sound is not knock. It was definitely pinging at 9psi. When I set boost at 8psi the ping would go away. It was very audible on the dyno but not on the road. This was at high RPM range only 5000-6500.

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by wicked
you can have detonation at 0 psi and slill here it but that little ping will be the death of your engine,it will put presure on the center of the piston till it colapses
i would take precutions first
your telling me you can hear detonation.....dude sometimes a person could be runnin and be detonating without a hint.
but ok lets not make this into a detonation thread....
get the flash:D

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by ARunto
The sound is not knock. It was definitely pinging at 9psi. When I set boost at 8psi the ping would go away. It was very audible on the dyno but not on the road. This was at high RPM range only 5000-6500.
dude so much noise comes from the engine its impossible to hear...especially at those rpms my friend...if anything check your plugs, theyll be the first to show signs.
like marbles hittin is what it sounds like....but the manifold makes that noise and so can your turbo from it being hot coolin down.

[ARunto]

the plugs did show signs of detonation (which are NGK BKR7E's)....and dude you can hear it. BTW...this is on pump gas 93 Octane

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by ARunto
the plugs did show signs of detonation (which are NGK BKR7E's)....and dude you can hear it. BTW...this is on pump gas 93 Octane
can you tell me what they looked like, pretty plz?

[ARunto]

You can see the insulator and electrode had specks on it. Also as I said it is audible. I've done more than my share of dyno runs to tell if a motor is pinging. It did sound like a bag of marbles. It only did this at 9psi or higher boost. At 8psi it didn't make a sound other than turbo whine and intake noise. This is of course is my motor so other's could have different experience depending on weather conditions.

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by ARunto
You can see the insulator and electrode had specks on it.
thatll do it....2 gallons of 104 octane man....makes a car feel good.

[PhreakV]

if you are thinking about a boost controller go out and get an electronic one. without it, you may have the boost set at 8 psi but your spikes will be in a dangerous range ~13 psi...

get the flash, get a fmic, get an electronic boost controller... in that order. exhaust should be added somewhere in there as money (and confidence) allows...

[ARunto]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
thatll do it....2 gallons of 104 octane man....makes a car feel good.

This I know I run 110 leaded & 93 unleaded mix at the track. I would have dynoed it with this setup but my filling station was out of 110 leaded.

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by ARunto
This I know I run 110 leaded & 93 unleaded mix at the track. I would have dynoed it with this setup but my filling station was out of 110 leaded. (bow)cool

[ricenudles]

So most of u say "yes flash." hmm...like two months ago it was the complete opposite, but oh well.

Question: after flashing, do u notice ur boost kicking at all? my 2nd gear has BAD hesitation.

[eddy]

I just got mine flashed today...thanx guys for the advice! the difference is night and day! im glad i did it..im thinkin eventually i will run 8psi max...but for right now..im enjoying the stock msp with flash!

[t3ase]

Originally posted by eddy
I just got mine flashed today...thanx guys for the advice! the difference is night and day! im glad i did it..im thinkin eventually i will run 8psi max...but for right now..im enjoying the stock msp with flash!
this brings up a good point. if you're flashed, be careful about upping the boost.

[funnylittlman]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed

like marbles hittin is what it sounds like....

When I reset my ECU a couple days ago, I let the car Idle for about 5 min (while checking tire pressure) and then I went out. I drove it easy for about 1 min and then I went WOT. It was here when I heard this marbles hitting / pinging. I am 100% stock (no injen, no dp, no K&N drop in) and I heard this pinging. It only did it 1 time, but I agree w/ ARunto, our cars can ping. (I'm running 93 octane since day 1 as well)

Ideas? The only thing I can think of was the ECU was relearning fuel maps and it didn't give a good a/f causing this ping.

-Fnny

[DiscreetSpeed]

it can be anything...thats the thing our engine is so noisey...it could from the exhaust manifold to the turbo...i wouldnt worry about it.