Probe headers on 2.0L

[carbonfibermp3]

Hello all,
I will be installing a set of Ford Probe headers on my MP3 next week (Jan 15-ish). The header will be cut and welded to fit along with a high flow cat. The attachments are different so I will take pictures and report back whether it is a worth while mod. I will be removing both cats and adding one high flow. The headers were $100 on Ebay. Check out seller www.ssautochrome.com for more information on the products. They might be OBX headers since the company sells that line??? So long till the mail arrives.

[carbonfibermp3]

Well, I installed the Probe headers on my MP3 Saturday. I removed both stock cats and replaced them with a single hi-flow cat. The install was straight forward and I had the end cut and welded to the remaining pipe. the cat is now under the front seats. Now, I do not have 1/4 mile times or a dyno to verify increases, but anyone can tell the difference with a before/after drive. I will definately agree with AWR's claims of 10hp and 11 lb/ft increases at the wheels, with the largest increases between 2500-5000 RPM. I have pictures coming but I need to finish the roll and send them away.
Now, the problems:
The EGR valve is bigger on the Pro than the Probe. My EGR is not connected and this may trip a CEL. One fix is to find a Probe EGR fitting and using it.
The two O2 sensors are right next to each other and this, again, may cause the ECU to think that the cat is faulty and trip a CEL.
My hi-flow cat is much farther back than stock, and I only have one, so it takes a while for it to ignite. This means that the car emits some smoke on cold starts.
I reset the ECU and drove it around town. Everything was OK until that night when the CEL came on. I pulled over and reset the ECU and it went away. If this happens again, I will check the codes to see if its the emissions equipment. If it is, then I'm going to pull my CEL bulb. My friend had to do this on his 01 ES because he installed a 200amp alternator and that causes a CEL.
Is it worth it? It was for me and if you don't mind the CEL (or removing it) this is worth the $200. Below is my list of costs.
header: new on Ebay $125 shipped
work (including some extra piping and the cat): $20
Magnaflow Hi flow cat (optional): $115

[carbonfibermp3]

Oh, two more little problems I forgot to mention.
1: Exchanging two stock cats and a resonator for 4-2-1 headers and a hi-flow cat has caused my car to sound honda-like. even with the stock MP3 muffler, the car has a buzz at 2500RPM for a sec and then the buzz returns above 4500RPM. It's a very minor point and impossible to avoid in an engine smaller than 3.0Ls but I prefer to sneak under the sound radar.
2: The headers are T304 stainless steel but the flanges are mild steel (most flanges are). Where the two sections of the header connect, one flange was perfect but the other was warped, causing a leak. We fixed the warp with a hammer and found out that the flange is very soft (usually not good). Again, not a big deal, but I'm going to mention everything.

[carbonfibermp3]

After another 10 miles the CEL came on again so I will removing the bulb and driving with it permantely on. I will be adding an EGT probe to each tube to watch the fuel demands (4 in total). I still think it is worth it but I may be crazy.

[flat_black]

Where did you fit the second O2 sensor in? Before, or after the catalyst? If it's before, then just relocate it to behind the second cat and plug the existing hole, and extend the wires accordingly. Should fix the CEL, if it's caused by that. However, you'll need to get the EGR fixed, presumbly, to not get any CEL's.

[njaremka]

I would bet your CEL is due to either the EGR not being connected, or from your cat taking longer than normal to heat up. Sounds like you got what you expected. Cool!

[carbonfibermp3]

Since the CEL doesn't come on immeditely, I'm thinking it is the O2 sensors. If the second O2 sensor reads equal or greater polution, it will think that the precat is faulty and trip the CEL. I am currently buying a MIL (I'm not sure what it stands for) that tells the ECU that the cat is working fine (check the reactive header thread for more info). This seems to be a problem with any header you buy since they will all remove the pre-cat.

[tonkabui]

can you take a pic of the egr bung that is needed and what is available on the header? thanks!

[carbonfibermp3]

I have pictures coming since I don't have a digital camera. I don't have the EGR fitting because I just welded the two parts closed. It's simply a screw on fitting. Ours are too big. If you get a junkyard peice, it will work fine. When I get my MIL I will post on here whether the CEL is gone or not (if it goes away, then you don't need the EGR valve on there). I'm not very good with the computer so the pictures will be on my site instead of here. If someone posts them later, more power to you.

[jaman]

Originally posted by carbonfibermp3
Since the CEL doesn't come on immeditely, I'm thinking it is the O2 sensors. If the second O2 sensor reads equal or greater polution, it will think that the precat is faulty and trip the CEL. I am currently buying a MIL (I'm not sure what it stands for) that tells the ECU that the cat is working fine (check the reactive header thread for more info). This seems to be a problem with any header you buy since they will all remove the pre-cat.

Just to be clear, O2 sensors don't read "polution" levels. The engine measures the oxygen level before and after the cat and expects some of the oxygen to have been used up. If both of the O2 readings are pretty much the same, then it assumes the cat is faulty.

[flat_black]

Actually, you could drive to an autozone and see what the CEL meant, too. =) That would at least tell you which one in particular was causing it.

[Brian MP5T]

Sounds like a lot of work, but I would be a hypocrite to say that it is not worth it.

[acidbbg]

Link to my install..I did the same header on my car!

http://www.msprotege.com/vbb225/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31353

[mp3moose]

Get the CEL checked and go from there.
moose

[YP5 Toronto]

agreed.....the CEL is a very important way for the car to communicate any or all problems. disconnecting the bulb is not the safe way to go....

moreover....someone clarify this for me...but when our cars go into "CEL" mode....doesn't our ECU go into "safe mode" and this in turn steals HPs.

[njaremka]

Originally posted by YP5 Toronto
agreed.....the CEL is a very important way for the car to communicate any or all problems. disconnecting the bulb is not the safe way to go....

moreover....someone clarify this for me...but when our cars go into "CEL" mode....doesn't our ECU go into "safe mode" and this in turn steals HPs.

It depends on what code the ECU gets before it goes into limp mode. If you get an EGR code, the car won't go into limp mode. If you get a fail primary O2 sensor, the ECU will go limp mode.

[carbonfibermp3]

I'm waiting on a PM from P5sundevil on getting the O2 fix. Hopefully I can get it before I go the dragstrip on Sunday (for anyone in Central FL, I'll be at the Sunday Funday at Bithlow).

[johnjay5]

hey did you do the install yourself?

[carbonfibermp3]

Originally posted by johnjay5
hey did you do the install yourself?

Yes, my friend works at a muffler shop so we installed it on his lift. Along with the ERG and O2 changes mentioned earlier, the only thing we changed was welding the end on rather than bolting to the stock cat . This was because we added a Magnaflow high-flow cat and I like to practice welding :D .

[BinaryRotary]

Originally posted by carbonfibermp3
After another 10 miles the CEL came on again so I will removing the bulb and driving with it permantely on. I will be adding an EGT probe to each tube to watch the fuel demands (4 in total). I still think it is worth it but I may be crazy.

With the CEL on the car will run at preset factory maps. You need to eliminate the cel to get the most power. Doh, someone said that.

[carbonfibermp3]

I installed the MIL eliminator from pony express performance last night while I was changing my oil. It fit nicely under the car, zipped tied to the bottom plastic splash guard. You install it anywhere between the O2 sensor and the conector plug but putting it any higher than the splash guard will put it between the header and the radiator. I was worried the heat would melt the MIL eliminator when the fans kick in.

[carbonfibermp3]

Ok, this is long but it should explain everything you can possibly go through with these headers:
1. The EGR tube doesn't fit.
At first, I welded it shut but OBDII sensors read two things: are the EGR solenoids are firing and is air moving through. Without air moving, the CEl comes on.
My second attempt was to put a breather filter on the cut end of the EGR. This causes a constant air leak and really rough idle.
Now I think I found a solution. On the Intake Manifold, there are two fittings that "T" into the valve cover. I bought extra vaccum tubing and piped the EGR exhaust end into one of the IM fittings. The other one now runs directly to the valve cover. This stops the air leak and hasn't caused a CEL yet.

2. The second O2 senor causes a CEL. Buy a CEl eliminator, it works.

Any other questions, please ask.

[GXL]

NICE...

http://www.msprotege.com/vbb225/attachment.php?postid=386034

[carbonfibermp3]

Yeah, that's the kit. I cut off the extra tubing just after the flex pipe. Remeber, the hardest part of this install is living with the ricey sound.
I'm going to scan and post my pictures of the install on my website this afternoon (around 17:00). I have to do it at work because my scanner is broken.