Twin turbo MSP

[Spooled]

I had a dream (MLK jokes aside) about a design for a twin-turbo MSP a couple weeks ago. I know that our cars have enough problems with one turbo, but the idea is just too much fun to disregard. It was funny because the dream was a lot like the dream sequence in "Explorers" (a movie from the 1980's with River Pheonix and Ethan Hawk as kids), minus the flying and none of my friends were there.

I will draw up a schematic in a bit and you guys can tell me what you think.

[pro5utah]

did your dream include connectng rods flying out of the side of the block as the motor exploded too?:D

[Kooldino]

lol @ pro5.

Are you talking sequential or side by side? You'd ahve to get some small ass turbos to get good response if you had one turbo powered by 2 cylinders.

[RAAZ227]

Originally posted by pro5utah
did your dream include connectng rods flying out of the side of the block as the motor exploded too?:D


(lol)

I personally think twin turbo would useless. Not efficent. Hard to Spool. Just slap on T04E. That would be big enough!

:D

[pro5utah]

yeah....not trying to mock you or anything but a twin would be worthless.....note how most people who have twins normally drop them for a big single...(i.e- skylines, supras, rx7's, 3000gt....etc.) it just wouldn't be worth it....but if you did it would have to be sequential....

[Spooled]

http://eighthundredpoundgorilla.com/msp/twinturbomsp1.jpg

http://eighthundredpoundgorilla.com/msp/twinturbomsp2.jpg

I agree that it would be pointless on stock internals and such (like I stated in the first post), but this is more about brain-storming. You know, that thing where people use constructive critisism to make something work.

I am curious about this setup, though. The obvious downside is that the turbos would spool slower because of the the distance from the block and the fact that they are halving the exhaust pressure.

But here is why I think it might be interesting: the exhaust would be cooler when it hits the turbos because of the distance from the block and the fact that there is less exhaust hitting each turbo. ALSO, look at the position of the turbos; they would be kept cooler by the passing air and would also have extremely short intake lengths from the filters. The spool time may be longer for each turbo, but you are pushing twice as much air, so when the turbos are at half the speed, they should be pushing the same amount of air as one at full speed. This also means that they will be more efficient since they only have to spin at half the speed to get the same air-flow.

This idea is more about efficiency rather than max PSI. It would be nice to see someone with a second T-25, some tubing skills, and some extra time try this idea out.

[SpicyMchaggis]

T04E and "hard to spool" are often put in the same sentance...but twin's? sure why not! just wear a helmet and pray to god before turning it on.

[SmoothCriminal]

thats actually not a bad idea, I had my reservations like the people who posted earlier but the fact is, our car has one laggy turbo, if you did this in a sequential setup, such that the first turbo has a really light compressor disc and will get actuated by the relatively low exhaust pressure of 1500rpm or so (like the turbo from a gti 1.8T) and then have the other turbo with a threshold like the current t25 that kicks in right around 3000 where our powerband is, I think you'd have a pretty sound machine, and getting aftermarket internals isn't all that necessary because the point of this setup wouldnt be to maximize boost but rather response

[Notorious]

Lotus Espirit has a twin turbo t-25 engine. Just thought I throw that out there.



Yeah i know its a v8, and its a lotus.

[RAAZ227]

-so your gonna sit there and spool 2 little TD04's, when you could Spool a T04e (built motor with much better flowing head) and make more power out of 1 than 2.

Don't get me wrong...it's a good idea but I see it for more as show points than timeslips. Now a 3.0l motor. That's a different ball game!

[Micah]

nice drawing - but don't forget about routing the exhaust off the turbo's as well - might as well do a true dual exhaust on that setup. Could be an incredibly noteworthy project. I would be a little concerned about the turbo's being damaged in the event of a small fender bender. Heat might be an issue as well - coming off the turbo into the body of the bumper - simple heat sheild issue I guess though.

Looking at it as a project, I would expect it to cost roughly 10 grand maybe a little more. (that's figuring 2 turbos, FMIC, engine management, all piping and hoses, true dual exhaust setup, custom exhaust manifold, and the dreadfull labor charge)

[yashooa]

Originally posted by pro5utah
did your dream include connectng rods flying out of the side of the block as the motor exploded too?:D

Now that was some funny shite!
:D :D :D

[yashooa]

Originally posted by Notorious
Lotus Espirit has a twin turbo t-25 engine. Just thought I throw that out there.



Yeah i know its a v8, and its a lotus.

Yes that was sweet car but you should step away from the Sweet leaf my friend :cool:

[PaulMP3]

It would be a real cool project... but money could be better spent...

Dont bother dreaming till you build up the motor.

[RyanJayG]

your artistic skillz astound me

[Spooled]

Good responses! I'm glad to see everyone's ideas on this. I think you are right that it would be a pricey project, and that's why I doubt anyone will ever attempt it. If I had unlimited funds, I think I would give it a shot just for the hell of it, then park it next to my Saleen S7...

Would it really cost that much to do if you were the one fabricating the piping? I'm sure that it would have to be a shop that can bend and weld everything. And you'd also have to work out something for sensing air (might as well go stand-alone with a MAP).

[Micah]

yeah, chances are - if you bought a protege, you don't have 10k to dump into a project. If you do, - maybe you would like to adopt a nice clean cut 26 year old. I make a damn good omelette.

[Spooled]

Originally posted by RyanJayG
your artistic skillz astound me

Ha! I sense some sarcasm. I'm actually an artist professionally, but didn't feel I needed to spice this up. I have some real stuff at http://www.wwnet.net/~rumorstar

[AutoBox]

the longer the exhuast manifold runners the better actually...if u read corky bell's maxium boos the talked about longer exhuast runners smoothin out the pulses in the exhuast casued by the firing order of the motor....and ur sketch shows a good setup but u are forgettin the fact that a twin turbo system on a 4 cly motor is not efficent at all...not alone would it be harder to spool the turbos with only 2 cyl each but u have to think about the fact that on ur setup u have them run parallel or at the same time.....now maybe if u can design a system that would have say a stock t25 turbo produce the low end then have the manifold closed and a seprate set of runners go to a larger turbo for top end....kinda of like sequential but to a greater affect.....of course this system would be very complicated to figure out how to get the system to switch between turbos and stuff....in the end u still have to remember that ur dealin with a small motor that doesnt produce alot of exhuast to begin with.....i know several ppl that tried tt setups on 4 cy and quit after the system could not produce more power then a single large turbo.....in the end its up to you.....but ill say a parallel system wouldnt be effiecent...you wouldnt get any better spool then just usin a large single turbo

[Spooled]

I see what you are saying. That's too bad that a 4-cylinder can't produce enough juice to push the turbines. Oh well, It was worth a post.

[mp3moose]

I second Autobox.
Pushing twins just isn't anywhere near feasible with such a small motor. You'd be spending 10K just to spool 200rpms quicker. There are far better place to look for power.
Moose

[Micah]

yeah like mp3moose's avatar.

Now that sounds like a good place to look, I think I feel some power building up right now!

[OrangeMSP]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SpicyMchaggis
T04E and "hard to spool" are often put in the same sentance...but twin's? sure why not! just wear a helmet and pray to god before turning it on. [/QUOTE

actually the TO4E isnt hard to spool at all in out cars spools at 2400ish i speak from having one....

[KyRaceFan]

this is the worst idea ever, and your little diagram is funny, did you know you want the HOTTEST exhaust gas you can get when you try to spool a turbo?

It could work, but the motor would have to be crazy built and rev to about 12k for it to make any power, even on small turbos.

[mazdaspeedpower]

I think for the dual exhaust, it would be interesting to be side mounted, moulded into the side, you know??? Yeah, this is very unpractical, but it would be fun jsut to try and see what happens.

[mazdaspeedpower]

If I had 10 grand to spend on my car, I'd buy an STi :)

[03MSPRO]

I'd like to see twin turbos AND 100 shot of N20

[monkeymsp]

Originally posted by KyRaceFan
this is the worst idea ever, and your little diagram is funny, did you know you want the HOTTEST exhaust gas you can get when you try to spool a turbo?


I think you could use turbo insulation on the exhaust pipe leading to the turbo and around the turbo to keep the heat up. FYI That stuff is available cheap from RV supply shops.

[t3ase]

Guys, screw turbo upgrades. TUNE YOUR CAR WITH WHAT YOU HAVE@!#%$! :D

Seriously, this car WILL run with proper tuning.

[AutoBox]

i dont think anyone well be totally exploring the limits of our car unless its a shop or whatever....in the end if i do keep goin with my car i plan to work a gt3037 turbo and go for over 300whp right now im shootin for 250whp o the stock turbo with pump gas.......may end up goin stand alone of course.

[Glowmunkey]

Originally posted by t3ase
Guys, screw turbo upgrades. TUNE YOUR CAR WITH WHAT YOU HAVE@!#%$! :D

Seriously, this car WILL run with proper tuning.

I agree... I think if you really HAD to upgrade the turbo, you'd be better off using a twin-scroll turbine, or some type of variable vane turbo. That is if you insist on doing things a little differently.

Corky Bell also states that a turbo spools fastest when it's hit by bursts of exhaust gases, not a smooth stream.

[pro5utah]

Originally posted by 03MSPRO
I'd like to see twin turbos AND 100 shot of N20

now we are really going to start making swiss cheese of the block.....got to love the dreaming factor of it all though....

[Micah]

agreed - tis amazing what you can do before reality enters the equation.

[slug420]

no, seriously, i AM astounded by your artistic abilities.

how did you write on the screen? pen and tablet stuff?

[MoJoeTCM]

what a chode, i didn't even think anybody would twin turbo a 4 cylinder...is that even possible? You would need like 200 shot of nos just to spool it up haha! Lets face it, our cars at the most deserve TO4e....:) ah my dream, some one just needs to make a complete turbo kit with management and all, i would buy...

[Pkay]

i've got an extra 94 rx7 turbo freshly rebuilt if anyone is gonna try TT. 10 years old and still one of the best turbos period

[solospeed]

that just stupid!!
t3/t04 IS THE WAY TO GO!
YOUR imaginary setup has no way to get the air bask to the car