So Boosting Our MSP's is not good..??

[TBMSPED]

:wtf: How are we supposed to have any fun. Can they not handle the boost. Even If you do the normal mods like, FMIC, Hard pipe kit, New BOV, Exhaust, Boost Controller ? And only run it at 10psi.

[jred321]

who says they can't handle it? if you do things correctly, they'll have no problems. if you're stupid about things, you'll break stuff.

[instylz]

a lot of people have it set at 10psi just make sure all the necessary mods are there. I for one have hard pipes,bov and boost controller and am at 10. I'm going to bring it down to about 9.5 or the closest to 10 i can get before hitting cut. Soon to be getting a turboback and fmic. l8r ;)

[TBMSPED]

After you get those mods do you think your going to up the boost? And if you did have the hard pipes, new BOV, FMIC, CAI, Turbo cat. What kind of HP do you think they can run?

[Captain KRM P5]

Originally posted by jred321
who says they can't handle it? if you do things correctly, they'll have no problems. if you're stupid about things, you'll break stuff.

110% in agreement. Adding to that, any time you decide to take a car outside the parameters set by the manufacturer, at least keep it in the back of your mind that there might be consequences, and that they're not going to be fault of Mazda's, but of the driver. Be prepared to pay or don't bother to play.

that said, i mean, people have been saying that there needs to be better fuel and timing control on these cars before you can run higher boost - and these solutions, either as a standalone or a piggyback, are being worked on. people just need to wise up, be patient and wait for one of these solutions to come down the pipeline rather than slap on an MBC and cross your fingers like a moron.

[shaolin]

I for one am a firm believer that before you do anything on your car modification-wise, you should make all the necessary preparations. Before I even consider buying a boost controller, I will be getting forged internals, engine and fuel management, and all the proper in car monitoring equipment.

It seems to me that everyone that has blown their motor wants a quick and easy bang. Everyone goes out and buys these boost controllers and blows up their engines and then wonders why. It's retarded. It's like going out and running around on a sprained ankle, and wondering why when you break your damn foot off.

Case in point: don't premature ejaculate and buy a boost controller without prepping the engine for it first.

[MazdaSP]

yea i wouldnt boost it any higher than 10, and turn down to 9 on cold days

[TampaBlackMSP]

This is weird, but it seems like no matter how much I turn the mbc to the left, it stays right around 10, as if it was hardcoded or something...the car runs great, but I'm not sure what the deal is...does it take a few miles before it adjusts and decreases??

This is after the flash by the way...

[yashooa]

Originally posted by Captain KRM P5
110% in agreement. Adding to that, any time you decide to take a car outside the parameters set by the manufacturer, at least keep it in the back of your mind that there might be consequences, and that they're not going to be fault of Mazda's, but of the driver. Be prepared to pay or don't bother to play.

that said, i mean, people have been saying that there needs to be better fuel and timing control on these cars before you can run higher boost - and these solutions, either as a standalone or a piggyback, are being worked on. people just need to wise up, be patient and wait for one of these solutions to come down the pipeline rather than slap on an MBC and cross your fingers like a moron.

Are ya ready kids? AIY AIY Captain, Who lives ina apineapple under the sea? Abosrbant and yellow and soemthing is he...
SqaureBob Spoongepants...SQQQQAURE BOB SPaaaooonge Pants. FUCK YOU ALL IZ RUNNING 40 LBS OF BOOST!!!!!
Ok not really just , sniff, tear, a measly little 12 but I'm ok with that. I like me , I am a winnar, I am a WINNNARRR!(stoned)
Ah yeah time for some more Ritalin....mmmm mETH is so delicious.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by TampaBlackMSP
This is weird, but it seems like no matter how much I turn the mbc to the left, it stays right around 10, as if it was hardcoded or something...the car runs great, but I'm not sure what the deal is...does it take a few miles before it adjusts and decreases??

This is after the flash by the way...

Hush that shit taLking up TampaxBlackMSP :p (k) :p

[Brian MP5T]

Try some forged internals at 8.2:1 and proper fuel management. Then play with the engine boost, you will end up finding the next weak link...Tranny,Driveshafs... $$$

Later...Brian

If you want Ferrari performance, you have to pay Ferrari prices.

[03MSPRO]

Originally posted by TBMSPED
:wtf: How are we supposed to have any fun. Can they not handle the boost. Even If you do the normal mods like, FMIC, Hard pipe kit, New BOV, Exhaust, Boost Controller ? And only run it at 10psi.

YES , the MSP CAN handle STOCK boost levels.

You are asking about above stock boost levels? Haven't you been reading all the post about blown motors?

I still think our cars can handle 10-12 psi using the stock T25 safely after you have taken care of all the other things first like FMIC, CAI, exhaust, plugs.

I beleive the FMIC should be the 1st mods if you want to increase boost because hot air leads to detonation/knock and that's the cause for engine failure. Up until 10-12 psi I don't believe fuel management is that necessary.

Flyingprotege runs safely at 6 psi using a T3 which flows a lot more than the T25 turbo, but it has a huge FMIC. They said it could run 8 psi with fuel management. That's like 12-14 psi on the T25.

[BOOSTR]

You can run more boost than 6.9 psi and not hurt your MSP. You cannot eliminate the safety devices that are in place and go above the overboost paramaters that are built in to the car and expect it to last.

The boost increases the compression ratio. Check out this link to see what your ratio is depending on where you live.

www.rbracing.com/compression.htm

DON'T BE STUPID, AND IT WILL LAST!

[DiscreetSpeed]

your engine will blow! if you push 10psi for long(say 2 months)
just stay at stock boost levels and enjoy the ride.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
your engine will blow! if you push 10psi for long(say 2 months)
just stay at stock boost levels and enjoy the ride.

????? You have beeen the King of the 12 PSI Pide pipers what gives? Even post flash you bellowed the virtues of 12PSI. :confused:

[DiscreetSpeed]

no way bud im doing 15psi now(just being a dick lol)

[TampaBlackMSP]

Originally posted by yashooa
Hush that shit taLking up TampaxBlackMSP :p (k) :p

What?! Me? :D Nosiree!

[AutoBox]

i think our motors are rather strong and could handle good boost...like stated many times....just need to do it right :)

[yashooa]

Originally posted by TampaBlackMSP
What?! Me? :D Nosiree!

That's the spirit! (2thumbs) (rockon) (2thumbs)

[yashooa]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
no way bud im doing 15psi now(just being a dick lol)

Whew...That's a relief I thought the whole world had gone mad for sec. MA-AAAD I TELL YA!

[SirJaime]

:'( KABOOOOOOM !:'( (hand) (bang)

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by SirJaime
KABOOOOOOM !
haha :rolleyes:
a response like this was predictable, lol

[yashooa]

Originally posted by SirJaime
:'( KABOOOOOOM !:'( (hand) (bang)

Could one goes as far as saying ,"If the boost is too high you're too old." :D :p :D
I mean come on Cowboy "Ride Hard Die Free!" right? ;)

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by SirJaime
:'( KABOOOOOOM !:'( (hand) (bang)
i remember when members were like if you boost over 10 youll blow your engine, then the flash becomes available and the same thing was said"youll blow your engine"

well Yashoo has been doing it for sometime now and his daily driver is still runnin
and many other members are boosting 12 some 14psi...
what gives?? none of you guys know for sure and i think we should keep testing...im doin fine at where i am but believe you me when it does go ill tell you all how long it held out.
i remember spoolin said 250hp to the wheels can be had with stock internals with supporting mods....look at his MP3.
no doubt i need to dyno and take it to the track though....will do soon

[The_Flamming_7]

Hey Earnhart, does your MSP have a "#3" on the side of it?... I didn't think so.... don't think you're gonna be pushing too much PSI, you're not driving a race car, don't expect performance!

...not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here, just pointing out reality.....

...IMO....don't push much more than stock

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by The_Flamming_7
Hey Earnhart, does your MSP have a "#3" on the side of it?... I didn't think so.... don't think you're gonna be pushing too much PSI, you're not driving a race car, don't expect performance!

...not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here, just pointing out reality.....

...IMO....don't push much more than stock
haha that was gay....HEY EVERYONE STOP MODDING YOUR CAR...YOULL GET NOTHIN OUT OF IT...WE'RE ALL 15 SEC CARS.

[spicyzoomzoom]

ok, os i have been reading about all these blown engines and searching for "proper" ways to mod this car, but everyone conflicts. the only thing in common is "do it right". so i am asking... what is 'right' ??? i know cars (im not an idiot!) i have been working around cars for 5+ years now. but turbos and mazdas are new to me (i work for an audi / vw / porsche dealer). i have joep's setup on the way to me and one thing is for damn sure... it aint going in until i have a few more parts to back it up. but im not sure whats needed as everyone has a different opinion. any help for those of us who want to do it once and do it right ???

[chino]

I think you should take the turbo off ENTIRELY! No boost is safe boost thats what I always say!

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by spankmymonkey
ok, os i have been reading about all these blown engines and searching for "proper" ways to mod this car, but everyone conflicts. the only thing in common is "do it right". so i am asking... what is 'right' ??? i know cars (im not an idiot!) i have been working around cars for 5+ years now. but turbos and mazdas are new to me (i work for an audi / vw / porsche dealer). i have joep's setup on the way to me and one thing is for damn sure... it aint going in until i have a few more parts to back it up. but im not sure whats needed as everyone has a different opinion. any help for those of us who want to do it once and do it right ???
ask spoolinmp3, im sure he can tell ya straight on.

[spicyzoomzoom]

thanks, chino, but i think we are all looking for constructive criticism, not sarcasm

[spicyzoomzoom]

thanks, i will ask him

[chino]

Because there was SO little sarcasm throughout this thread. :D
What Discreet just said was good advice. Other than that, all you are going to hear is different opinions because there is very little aftermarket support and the testing pools not very big for our cars so everybody's on their own. Not to say nobody knows but everybody is having to formulate their own ideas, opinions ETC.

[nate0123]

Originally posted by TBMSPED
:wtf: How are we supposed to have any fun. Can they not handle the boost. Even If you do the normal mods like, FMIC, Hard pipe kit, New BOV, Exhaust, Boost Controller ? And only run it at 10psi. I have fun with 0 psi, so STFU

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by nate0123
I have fun with 0 psi, so STFU
hey man no one said anything about your 17 sec ride...(outie)

[nate0123]

ahem, I think you mean 16 sec ride :D

[BinaryRotary]

Originally posted by yashooa
Are ya ready kids? AIY AIY Captain, Who lives ina apineapple under the sea? Abosrbant and yellow and soemthing is he...
SqaureBob Spoongepants...SQQQQAURE BOB SPaaaooonge Pants. FUCK YOU ALL IZ RUNNING 40 LBS OF BOOST!!!!!
Ok not really just , sniff, tear, a measly little 12 but I'm ok with that. I like me , I am a winnar, I am a WINNNARRR!(stoned)
Ah yeah time for some more Ritalin....mmmm mETH is so delicious.

You have one of THE most incoherent, incomprehensible typing styles I have ever seen.

[Petey Turbo]

I just got my MSP and I like the car but at the same time I am dissapointed..The thing that gets me is how the HELL can mazda make a turbocharged enthusiests <sp> car and NOT use forged internals!!!Thats a pile of dung if you ask me..Just makes me mad to know that to make the car fast you have to do what mazda didn't and should have done from the beginning..Mabye its just me and my being used to making over 400hp on a 2.0 dohc thats over 12 years old and bone stock internally, but this is going on 2004 now WTF?!?! The focus SVT even has forged internals and its not even TURBO!! IS this just a regular protege motor or what??Whats different??

[shaolin]

Hey you ---- go search.

http://www.msprotege.com/vbb230/search.php?s=

[Captain KRM P5]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
i remember spoolin said 250hp to the wheels can be had with stock internals with supporting mods....look at his MP3.
no doubt i need to dyno and take it to the track though....will do soon

spoolin's mp3 also had alot more done to it than any mazdaspeed protege - correction, any protege - on this board. "supporting mods" in that case would begin with throwing the stock ecu out the window.

[monkeymsp]

The guys who SCCA the N/A protege are making 250hp and I hear they are replacing engines three times per season. I wonder if that aMount of HP is the practical limit of this engine. Which would mean that a CAI/FMIC/full exhaust with 14+psi would put you near the limit right?

[Captain KRM P5]

Originally posted by monkeymsp
Which would mean that a CAI/FMIC/full exhaust with 14+psi would put you near the limit right?

might as well get the downpipe as well. regardless, none of that is worth anything long term if you're not taking care of the fuel issue.

[low_psi]

Originally posted by monkeymsp
The guys who SCCA the N/A protege are making 250hp and I hear they are replacing engines three times per season. I wonder if that aMount of HP is the practical limit of this engine. Which would mean that a CAI/FMIC/full exhaust with 14+psi would put you near the limit right?

The reason they are replacing engines is the rev-range they stay in through-out the race. They reline around 9K i believe. There's lots of info floating around if you want to look more in-depth into the matter.

1 race mile = 1000 street miles -quoted from a Porsche racer. Its not 100% true, but you get the idea of the hell those engines go through.

Terry's MP3 is probably running 260+whp with a decent clutch. He's proven Mazda and Mazdaspeed wrong with their assertion that the stock FS-DE bottom end can only take 250whp. Engine management is the key to keeping your rods; connecting rods.

[jonnydoe48]

Originally posted by yashooa
That's the spirit! (2thumbs) (rockon) (2thumbs)


yashooa, how often do you even go into boost? i remember in previous posts you told us how you stay between 10-18 vaccuum through most of your driving life anyway. shrug.

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by Captain KRM P5
spoolin's mp3 also had alot more done to it than any mazdaspeed protege - correction, any protege - on this board. "supporting mods" in that case would begin with throwing the stock ecu out the window.
WITH STOCK INTERNALS, that was the point of my post!
supporting mods....what would you call it..??

[unwrittenLaw]

Originally posted by Petey Turbo
I just got my MSP and I like the car but at the same time I am dissapointed..The thing that gets me is how the HELL can mazda make a turbocharged enthusiests <sp> car and NOT use forged internals!!!Thats a pile of dung if you ask me..Just makes me mad to know that to make the car fast you have to do what mazda didn't and should have done from the beginning..Mabye its just me and my being used to making over 400hp on a 2.0 dohc thats over 12 years old and bone stock internally, but this is going on 2004 now WTF?!?! The focus SVT even has forged internals and its not even TURBO!! IS this just a regular protege motor or what??Whats different??


What type of forged internals does the Focus SVT have? I doubt they are like true aftermarket forged internals, but I don't know much about those cars....

[iNeedSpeed]

ok now...............ive been been boosting @10psi for 4 months now with no problems........i will be backing back a lil after reading this but only to about 9. at least my car is fun!!!!

[yashooa]

Originally posted by BinaryRotary
You have one of THE most incoherent, incomprehensible typing styles I have ever seen.

If you think my typing is bad you should hear me speak...:p
I sound like a mix of that Tard out of Slingblade and the Godfather.
I'll make you an offer you cant refuse... ahum I'll study on ya fer a while, I will. Why does my jaw hurt?

[yashooa]

Originally posted by jonnydoe48
yashooa, how often do you even go into boost? i remember in previous posts you told us how you stay between 10-18 vaccuum through most of your driving life anyway. shrug.

Usally just through the bottm two gears in the morning. I leave at about 6-6:20 am and get to work about 7:35. I normally spank it a bit down the back roads so I am in the boost to some extent in the morning. On the way home I just hit it coming out of the parking garage. There is a great lauch spot right a redlight it's like my own staging tree in dowtown FT.WORTH :D
You can get a good 1-2 shift max boost launch, then around a sharp right /left decending S-turn, down a short straight coming back up out of the descent, then quickly dart across two lanes to the far right hand lane, accellerating uphill towards a long sharp right ,up then down the steeply descending accelleration lane into the 4:30 pm I35 South traffic.
So at least a few times a day just not whilst I drive home for most of the 42 miles. Well except today when I redlined it third passing some ASSMONKEY that was blocking the fastlane. It was fuuuuuuuunnn oh yes it was.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by chino
I think you should take the turbo off ENTIRELY! No boost is safe boost thats what I always say!
heheheh Yeah the only good turbo is a DEAD turbo. Those thangs are FUCKING evil I tells ya E.V.I.L. !!! (laugh) (laugh) (laugh)

The turbo is a tool of the DEVIL!!! Beware friendS, Romans, Assholians, BEWARE!

[BLURSPEED]

I've been boosting 10psi for about 3 months now and no problem. Only problem I encountered was fuel cut since the temps dropped but that problem has been solved with Joe's FCD. Thank's Joe.

[BLURSPEED]

Oh and my performance mods are XS engineering intercooler core, custom 2 1/4 mandrel bent pipes, turbonetics hoses, greddy type s bov, ngk bkr7e copper plugs, protsport downpipe, custom 2 1/2 inch exhaust piping, tsudo carbon fiber titanium tip muffler, joe mbc, and joe fcd.

[DiscreetSpeed]

DO NOT BOOST MORE THAN 7PSI ON 93 OCTANE.......lol

[BLURSPEED]

I haven't had any problems yet. This is my 3rd turbocharged car and never had any problems with running 93 octane. Actually I'm usually running 91 because I get my gas on the Air Force base. My 2 other turbocharged cars were skyline's when I was stationed in Japan.

[BLURSPEED]

One thing that I don't do is run anything higher than 10 with 91 octane. When I run 13psi I go to Rebel gas station and use their 100 octane racing gas.

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
DO NOT BOOST MORE THAN 7PSI ON 93 OCTANE.......lol
you will blow your engine.....if you do...

[BLURSPEED]

No I don't think so. You may think that it will. But for 2 years in Japan my RB20DET motors never blew. As for the MSP I've been using 91 octane since I had the car. 91 is considered premium which is the lowest you can go. Now if I was putting in 87 or 89 then I definetely would agree with you. Detonation would then occur.

[BLURSPEED]

With all due respect to you bro, but I'm not new to all this. But yeah we're all entitled to our own opinions. I don't want to start a flamewar or anything. You're actually looking out for a fellow MSP owner so it's all good.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by BLURSPEED
With all due respect to you bro, but I'm not new to all this. But yeah we're all entitled to our own opinions. I don't want to start a flamewar or anything. You're actually looking out for a fellow MSP owner so it's all good.

Man Discreetty is just playing the Vagina's advocate. He has been boosting to 12PSI from damn near the get go, HO :D

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
DO NOT BOOST MORE THAN 7PSI ON 93 OCTANE.......lol
I agree, unless you have looked into the "weakest link problem". Intercooler, fuel, spiking. Etc. Once you have these problems covered, you should be able to take it 7 or 8 Daily and 10 -12 for track day. Expect to blow motors, the stock set-up wasn't designed for you guys to start playing with boost. That's why it doesn't come with a boost controller. If you want Lotus or Porche performance from your car you really should just go buy one.

The Protege was designed as a fun way to get you to work in the morning, not to pass jet planes.

Later...Brian

If you boost, you have to improve the design that Mazda has made to compensate for the added load that you are asking of your internals and drivetrain.

[InsidiousMSP]

In the end, the bottom end (rods in particular) are good for no more than 230-240whp (105mph trap speeds). Not bad, mid-13s capable. But then you're at the limit. Proper tuning or not. No one can dispute that. Many would be happy there, but I personally wouldn't be for long. That's why I'm selling my car. Don't feel like spending $3500+ to build a Protege motor. The next car is also a 2 liter 4cyl that comes with a T25, but it's stock bottom end is capable of 475+rwhp and doesn't have a retarted ECU... and is RWD. :)

Yes, I bought the wrong car to play with, but it was fun while it lasted.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
I agree, unless you have looked into the "weakest link problem". Intercooler, fuel, spiking. Etc. Once you have these problems covered, you should be able to take it 7 or 8 Daily and 10 -12 for track day. Expect to blow motors, the stock set-up wasn't designed for you guys to start playing with boost. That's why it doesn't come with a boost controller. If you want Lotus or Porche performance from your car you really should just go buy one.

The Protege was designed as a fun way to get you to work in the morning, not to pass jet planes.

Later...Brian

If you boost, you have to improve the design that Mazda has made to compensate for the added load that you are asking of your internals and drivetrain.

You are a true Specimen of the Homo Arts aren't you.
TARD---COUGH---TARD.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by InsidiousMSP
In the end, the bottom end (rods in particular) are good for no more than 230-240whp (105mph trap speeds). Not bad, mid-13s capable. But then you're at the limit. Proper tuning or not. No one can dispute that. Many would be happy there, but I personally wouldn't be for long. That's why I'm selling my car. Don't feel like spending $3500+ to build a Protege motor. The next car is also a 2 liter 4cyl that comes with a T25, but it's stock bottom end is capable of 475+rwhp and doesn't have a retarted ECU... and is RWD. :)

Yes, I bought the wrong car to play with, but it was fun while it lasted.
Ah so the wise one speaketh. I agree with this completely.

[t3ase]

I am the walrus.

[pluto316]

Originally posted by InsidiousMSP
In the end, the bottom end (rods in particular) are good for no more than 230-240whp (105mph trap speeds). Not bad, mid-13s capable. But then you're at the limit. Proper tuning or not. No one can dispute that. Many would be happy there, but I personally wouldn't be for long. That's why I'm selling my car. Don't feel like spending $3500+ to build a Protege motor. The next car is also a 2 liter 4cyl that comes with a T25, but it's stock bottom end is capable of 475+rwhp and doesn't have a retarted ECU... and is RWD. :)

Yes, I bought the wrong car to play with, but it was fun while it lasted.


Keep your MSP while you work on your super car, atleast that's what I am doing.

[InsidiousMSP]

Originally posted by pluto316
Keep your MSP while you work on your super car, atleast that's what I am doing.

These $400/mo payments will only get in the way of the new project. :)

[Mike R]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
Try some forged internals at 8.2:1 and proper fuel management. Then play with the engine boost, you will end up finding the next weak link...Tranny,Driveshafs... $$$

Later...Brian

If you want Ferrari performance, you have to pay Ferrari prices.

Not really. Try 2.3L Ford. If you know what you are doing 11's on stock block and head is easy. They are fairly cheap too. Of course they came with forged 8:1 pistons and the bottom end is damn near indestructable. The downside is the body usually is a pinto or fox mustang.

[Petey Turbo]

I dont see spending over 3 grand just to do your bottom end..I agree with the part about buying the wrong car though,I feel as though I did also but I got a GREAT deal on it, I think I paid less then anyone..I miss my mitsubishi's one day I will get another Galant VR4,but now I have a new car to drive while I build my single turbo 85 GSL-SE and my monthly payments are under 300 and insurance under 100 so thats a plus..I will build the bottom end with forged peices and hopefully stay under 2 grand, thats what I hope anyway..If not,anyone want a lazer blue 03.5 MSP with 800 miles for 16grand??:mad:

[t3ase]

Buying the wrong car? Apparently you people didn't research the car *at all* before making your decision. You just saw turbo and assumed.

Blame it on yourself, not Mazda.

[DiscreetSpeed]

ima tell you ALL what i think
LETS TAKE IT FLAME WARS(flame) (upyours)

[Dr.Sound]

Originally posted by t3ase
Buying the wrong car? Apparently you people didn't research the car *at all* before making your decision. You just saw turbo and assumed.

Blame it on yourself, not Mazda.
agreed

[yashooa]

Originally posted by t3ase
I am the walrus.
Coo Coo ca choo.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by Petey Turbo
I dont see spending over 3 grand just to do your bottom end..I agree with the part about buying the wrong car though,I feel as though I did also but I got a GREAT deal on it, I think I paid less then anyone..I miss my mitsubishi's one day I will get another Galant VR4,but now I have a new car to drive while I build my single turbo 85 GSL-SE and my monthly payments are under 300 and insurance under 100 so thats a plus..I will build the bottom end with forged peices and hopefully stay under 2 grand, thats what I hope anyway..If not,anyone want a lazer blue 03.5 MSP with 800 miles for 16grand??:mad:

Your New name should be PeteyCrackhead with new MSP's going for 15,500$ and you asking 16 for your "soiled" version.
Now if you are willing to take 13,500 maybe someone will buy it :p :D :p Oh feel the pain of depreciation.

[VA PROTEGE]

Im boosting 12PSI with the INJEN cai, apex 3"cat and downpipe, with the Ion FMIC. My car seems to to be doing good so far.

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by yashooa
You are a true Specimen of the Homo Arts aren't you.
TARD---COUGH---TARD.

Grow Up Butt Pirate.

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by Mike R
Not really. Try 2.3L Ford. If you know what you are doing 11's on stock block and head is easy. They are fairly cheap too. Of course they came with forged 8:1 pistons and the bottom end is damn near indestructable. The downside is the body usually is a pinto or fox mustang.

I think you are losing the focus of the original post. :o

later...Brian

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by VA PROTEGE
Im boosting 12PSI with the INJEN cai, apex 3"cat and downpipe, with the Ion FMIC. My car seems to to be doing good so far.

This isn't a flame.

That is what we have been saying from the start of this thread. The engine will take 12 PSI no problem, But the problem was longevity. It may take it, but will it take it over a long time.

Again... I am not flaming you. Just useing your post as an example. Boost Is Good!!

[shaolin]

I just wish I could run stock settings, and boost more when I need it to. EBC would be so nice, if only there was a way to tune the POS ECU...

[Dr.Sound]

well, they have the 2 stage MBC's with an in-cabin switch.
uses a solenoid.
u can have a stock setting of 6psi, then flip a button and have 9psi.a buddy of mine has it on his MSP5.

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by shaolin
I just wish I could run stock settings, and boost more when I need it to. EBC would be so nice, if only there was a way to tune the POS ECU...



Anything worth doing is worth doing well. If it were easy, then it would not be unique because everyone would be doing it.

I think Modding is an art form. Balance between HP and Longevity.

There are easy ways to get around the ECU and Injectors...

SDS-EIC-2

http://www.sdsefi.com/eic.html

It is boost dependant and user set.

[All Boost]

I think Brian MP5T has the right idea when he says, people are no problems at the present time, but there could be longevity issues.

Bottom line here is that with any motor, people will try to get the most power out of the setup. Motors will be blown, tears will be shed, and many people will learn from this.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
Grow Up Butt Pirate.
Ah so you DO love me :D (k) :D
I was wondering if you just plain ole didn't like me.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by All Boost
I think Brian MP5T has the right idea when he says, people are no problems at the present time, but there could be longevity issues.

Bottom line here is that with any motor, people will try to get the most power out of the setup. Motors will be blown, tears will be shed, and many people will learn from this.
Or normal driving and maintenance will rule and there shall be much rejoicing when they pass the 100k mile mark at 12PSI.
And the Lord said, "Let there be 12 PSI" and he saw that it was good. The book of ZOOM, Turbonicus, Chapter 1 verse 12.

[BrianV]

12 psi = yummy

[tddelsol]

ok im sure smart ass ansews will follow but im lost i searched this board day and night when i got my msp in june and 9-10 psi was the agreed safe boost to run with no other mods has this changed has there been 20 blown motors since i last visited this fine place 3 months ago cause im finally get my mbc this month and if the new agreed "safe" psi is 7 ill just piss the money away on touch up paint to fix the shitty mazda paint job

[Dr.Sound]

9-10 is still safe with colder plugs

[tddelsol]

thanx dr nice to see a post from someone thats had there car for a while

[Dr.Sound]

yeah, people arround here all of a sudden got together and shitted their pants cause of 2 blown engines.
and i'm sure that people that blew them had more done to them than what they say. pretty sure boost was higher.

it's like a frigin negative curtain has been pulled over these boards cause of some people's stupidity.

[pluto316]

Originally posted by Dr.Sound
yeah, people arround here all of a sudden got together and shitted their pants cause of 2 blown engines.
and i'm sure that people that blew them had more done to them than what they say. pretty sure boost was higher.

it's like a frigin negative curtain has been pulled over these boards cause of some people's stupidity.


I just don't want to be the one saying "YEAH BOOST TO 12PSI!" and they come back with yet another blown engine.

[Dr.Sound]

ithink anything is cool untill u hit fuel cut.
it's there for a reason.

[TBMSPED]

FCD is there for a reason, i hit it a few times after the installation of the boost controller, and after that never went above 9psi ,same plugs form the fac. And have been keeping it at 8psi for normal driving conditions. I have yet to have a problem (knock on wood) but Im not racing everything on the streets and red lining my car all the time eaither. My car dose feel like it misses out when accelerating thowe.

[Brian MP5T]

The car was designed to run at whatever boost is set at. If you up the boost without changing the fuel delivery system, what do you expect? You are going to run lean and over time will ruin your engine.

[Dr.Sound]

this car runs very rich (but u knew that)
2-2.5 psi over stock will not do much damage unless u redline it all the time.

oh, and run colder plugs.

[unwrittenLaw]

just remember that you could still get ping/knock before you hit the fuel cut...

[ThrillRide]

There are easy ways to get around the ECU and Injectors...


:rolleyes: apparently someone doesn't have an MSP PCM (ECU).

[yashooa]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
The car was designed to run at whatever boost is set at. If you up the boost without changing the fuel delivery system, what do you expect? You are going to run lean and over time will ruin your engine.

Well Joe pretty much blew this argument to shit about a year ago so please guess again. Even at 12PSI everday now for a close to a year my tailpipe is covered with soot. Imperical no, this is not a valid measurement but Joe did do proper measurements and it was so rich even at crazy boost (upwards of 21PSI) he released the FPR. After the flash the amount of fuel has hardly been touched and it was just a bump in timing advanced no less so lean is really not in the MSP's vocabulary. This is the primary reason I want a piggyback or standalone because this car's fuel maps are so fucking RICH! I am no expert but many on this board are and they have been saying the same thing for a year, less fuel and more power, for the MSP is "pig" rich.

[Petey Turbo]

Originally posted by yashooa
Your New name should be PeteyCrackhead with new MSP's going for 15,500$ and you asking 16 for your "soiled" version.
Now if you are willing to take 13,500 maybe someone will buy it :p :D :p Oh feel the pain of depreciation.
Actually I was being sarcastic, and it was my fault for not making that clear, my bad..But you really should think before you start calling people names , it makes you look like a child and people will know you are definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer..I'm not selling the car and I do feel fine with the depreciation factor, however it just annoys me that mazda didn't strengthen the bottom end of an N/A motor before just slapping a turbo on there..

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by yashooa
Well Joe pretty much blew this argument to shit about a year ago so please guess again. Even at 12PSI everday now for a close to a year my tailpipe is covered with soot. Imperical no, this is not a valid measurement but Joe did do proper measurements and it was so rich even at crazy boost (upwards of 21PSI) he released the FPR. After the flash the amount of fuel has hardly been touched and it was just a bump in timing advanced no less so lean is really not in the MSP's vocabulary. This is the primary reason I want a piggyback or standalone because this car's fuel maps are so fucking RICH! I am no expert but many on this board are and they have been saying the same thing for a year, less fuel and more power, for the MSP is "pig" rich.

Ok here it is, I'm only talking about under load...when it counts. An engine can run 99.9% of it's life but the one time it runs lean at wide open throttle can cause it to fail. Do you think I just say this shit for the fuck of it? The only point of my last post was...

Mazda set it at "Whatever 6.5 to 7.0 Psi" They thought it couldn't handle more. Why would you expect that it would.

You guys are buying a car and overboosting it from what it was designed to be set at. Obvioulsy some of you are having problems and even blowing engines? If Mazda wanted to design an EVO they would have put forged internals and a bunch of really slick R&D into the MSP. Plus they would have charged more $$$$

Relax guy, don't be poopy. If you blow your engine, you will be the only one responsable for it.

Later...Brian

[shaolin]

Why don't you guys just get some nice bolt ons, enjoy the gains, and maybe rebuild the engine and prep it for boost properly? Do what Mazda didn't, and get some stronger internals, fuel and engine management, and then you can get the lovely boost controller....

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by shaolin
Why don't you guys just get some nice bolt ons, enjoy the gains, and maybe rebuild the engine and prep it for boost properly? Do what Mazda didn't, and get some stronger internals, fuel and engine management, and then you can get the lovely boost controller....
wrd, just boost stock boost :D for now until you put in at least pistons and rods. i know im goin to.

[AutoBox]

before u go and spend thousands of dollars on forged internals u need management.....i have seen forged internals go from detonation......management = anti-detonation

have a nice boosted day :)

[DiscreetSpeed]

last i saw rods and pistons were 1300 together.
and to blow up from detonation well......that person should be shot for not knowing how much to do.

[AutoBox]

not knowing how much of what to do???

last time i checked not everyone here knows how to rebuild motors i fgure once u get the parts.....have a shop instlal them and blueprint the motor ur lookin at a good 3g job if you want it done right.....i rather spend that much on good management and diagonisatics (spellin?)

[DiscreetSpeed]

on how much boost to push silly, what else on a turbo car?
ya i agree but when you got a shop at your disposal and a dad that owns it, its pretty easy but i dont have the money(damnit).
but i agree not everyone has that.

[AutoBox]

well see thats my point, with proper management you can boost alot more on a stock motor......i have seen stock nissan motors put out over 450whp on the stock cast pistons and rods...granted they were built to be boosted but the general knowlegde that if tuned right you can go a long way is still there.....and the forged motor that blew was from a nissan 240sx....the sr20 motor in it didnt have the proper management and it leaned out on him at the drag strip......he rebuilt the project with a stock block and a tec2 management system and is running faster then he did with the old setup.....forged internals are cool....just not before good management....my case in point

[InsidiousMSP]

Originally posted by AutoBox
well see thats my point, with proper management you can boost alot more on a stock motor......i have seen stock nissan motors put out over 450whp on the stock cast pistons and rods...granted they were built to be boosted but the general knowlegde that if tuned right you can go a long way is still there.....and the forged motor that blew was from a nissan 240sx....the sr20 motor in it didnt have the proper management and it leaned out on him at the drag strip......he rebuilt the project with a stock block and a tec2 management system and is running faster then he did with the old setup.....forged internals are cool....just not before good management....my case in point

Yes forged internals before engine management is ridiculous. Unfortunately, the Protege rods will never feel 250whp and stay put. Still, fuel control is a must on this car if you want it to run nicely.

I can't wait to start tinkering with an SR20, not feeling limited by bolt on mods. :)

[AutoBox]

the sr20 is a monster 4cyl motor....nissan put alot of knowledge on it and it shows....like i stated before...there was a race for the most whp from the stock block...539whp was the most.....even though the msp doesnt have any sort of internal work to help the turbo application, u can still work good whp with proper management. i felt the hype of the whole rwd drift scene and stepped out of the nissans....hence me in a msp now.....but i may return in a couple years, right now im gonna work on my msp....later i want to work on a skyline.....i would luv a clean r32 gt-r.....i smell to4r spoolin at 8k rpm :)

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by InsidiousMSP
Unfortunately, the Protege rods will never feel 250whp and stay put.

Ahem :)..

Been there, done that. Unfortunately I sold the car before I got to do long term testing (or lost my ass anymore on the car depreciating- $7000 in 3 months was enough of a loss for me :) ), but with a proper tune- they aren't *as* weak as people make it out to be. The motor is weak in comparison to most factory turbo motors though..
Joe

[AutoBox]

yeh i dont assume anyone is gonna take the msp to the extreme....at this point it smy daily driver and will be until i finish my my ba in mech. engineering....in 3 years im gettin a real turbo car.....the list is growing, as to what will replace the msp :)

but if someone does take it, i would be wellin to bet the block could hold alot.....cant make assumtions until its done......i remeber when i got my 240 3 years ago....it was said the sr20det couldnt get more then 300whp on the stock block...they are puttin over 500 now.....

[InsidiousMSP]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
Ahem :)..

Been there, done that. Unfortunately I sold the car before I got to do long term testing (or lost my ass anymore on the car depreciating- $7000 in 3 months was enough of a loss for me :) ), but with a proper tune- they aren't *as* weak as people make it out to be. The motor is weak in comparison to most factory turbo motors though..
Joe

Joe you know a 5th gear pull on the road at that psi would've shot all 4 rods out the block. :D

[InsidiousMSP]

Originally posted by AutoBox
the sr20 is a monster 4cyl motor....nissan put alot of knowledge on it and it shows....like i stated before...there was a race for the most whp from the stock block...539whp was the most.....even though the msp doesnt have any sort of internal work to help the turbo application, u can still work good whp with proper management. i felt the hype of the whole rwd drift scene and stepped out of the nissans....hence me in a msp now.....but i may return in a couple years, right now im gonna work on my msp....later i want to work on a skyline.....i would luv a clean r32 gt-r.....i smell to4r spoolin at 8k rpm :)

RB is nice. I was considering a R33 GT-R before I found the 180SX. Figured, not only is the S13 cheaper, but I won't worry about it as much in public than with a Skyline. :p I'm going all-out on the 180 though, if you want, PM me for details. :D

[AutoBox]

how the hell did u get 18psi from our pee-wee t25?? had to be blowin mad hot air

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by InsidiousMSP
Joe you know a 5th gear pull on the road at that psi would've shot all 4 rods out the block. :D

Lol- I had done a couple, but not for extended periods- up to like 125-130 and then let off..
Joe

[yashooa]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
Ok here it is, I'm only talking about under load...when it counts. An engine can run 99.9% of it's life but the one time it runs lean at wide open throttle can cause it to fail. Do you think I just say this shit for the fuck of it? The only point of my last post was...

Mazda set it at "Whatever 6.5 to 7.0 Psi" They thought it couldn't handle more. Why would you expect that it would.

You guys are buying a car and overboosting it from what it was designed to be set at. Obvioulsy some of you are having problems and even blowing engines? If Mazda wanted to design an EVO they would have put forged internals and a bunch of really slick R&D into the MSP. Plus they would have charged more $$$$

Relax guy, don't be poopy. If you blow your engine, you will be the only one responsable for it.

Later...Brian

With the tsunami of fuel being dumped into the cylinders I have a hard time seeing where this magical "Lean" spot just appears. But hey you are the all knowing, all seeing, Cannuck Tard so I'm sure when Santa Claus drives the Easter bunny home in his midly modified MSP it will just explode like a Mutha Fugga.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by Dr.Sound
yeah, people arround here all of a sudden got together and shitted their pants cause of 2 blown engines.
and i'm sure that people that blew them had more done to them than what they say. pretty sure boost was higher.

it's like a frigin negative curtain has been pulled over these boards cause of some people's stupidity.

Yes, It's like 5 cars have blown out of thousands of cars, one at stock boost no less, and all of a sudden every FUCKTARD in the world is like,"Man dude those MSP can't take more than like 6PSI without total destruction." or "Dude ya know ya gotta have like 12 grand of mods EM,FMIC,down pipe, full exhaust, and some magic carma mods or your just toast dude."
I'm sure it must (sarcasm) have been the lean condition that blew Jecky's stock boost car as well. :rolleyes:

[Mr. Win]

http://www.mazdamp3.com/members/SenorCorwin/boost.jpg

haha i had to post just cause how ridiculously long this thread got haah next time thread starter talk with someone with turbo experinces like the hi boost guy or linux or spooling people that can be helpful not all these people who have a small idea of whats goign on in thier engine bay.

[AutoBox]

i must go out and blow my motor to attain the knowledge needed to explain the concept of not blowing my motor up? ?!?!?!:wtf:

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by yashooa
Yes, It's like 5 cars have blown out of thousands of cars, one at stock boost no less, and all of a sudden every FUCKTARD in the world is like,"Man dude those MSP can't take more than like 6PSI without total destruction." or "Dude ya know ya gotta have like 12 grand of mods EM,FMIC,down pipe, full exhaust, and some magic carma mods or your just toast dude."
I'm sure it must (sarcasm) have been the lean condition that blew Jecky's stock boost car as well. :rolleyes:
haha i love this guy.
-Autobox i ran my car at 18psi one weekend and had no prods and now its at 15 all the time....tick tock tick tock its a time bomb.

[AutoBox]

have u done any management....what mods? its the whp i care to see...psi doesnt show the whole story

[DiscreetSpeed]

nah man im stock w/ a cai.

[AutoBox]

thats cool...u should get on the dyno and throw some whp up for us.....its not the psi that matters its the actually about of whp ur makin ......cus a guy pumpin 15psi thru a t3 is makin much more power then u pushin 15psi thru the stock t25.....either way i would like to one day disprove the assumetions that the motor is a pos

[Mr. Win]

no thats not hat meant at all auto box tis more fo the fact that everyone thinks they know it all when thier learning themselves and the yahoo guy is just running around insulting everyone adn belittling everyone and it is totally unneedeed he asked for your thoughts and he just slams anyone thats not in his point of view. and discret s the perfect example of someone thats takes the risk and ups the boost and everyone flames him for t and he knows what he has done adn he takes response for it. I would say start modding without uping the oost help brake the engine in and then up the boost IMO

[AutoBox]

agreed senor...sorry if i miss took ur post

[SirJaime]

AutoBox , Dude so far I like what u have said. Sounds like u know what u r talkin about and I will be keeping an eye out for u plus if I get some money be asking u about ur management that u hv for ur car. If u don't mind ?

[Dr.Sound]

Originally posted by SenorCorwin
..................and the yahoo guy is just running around insulting everyone
LMAO !!!
"yahoo guy"
(rofl)

[yashooa]

Originally posted by SirJaime
AutoBox , Dude so far I like what u have said. Sounds like u know what u r talkin about and I will be keeping an eye out for u plus if I get some money be asking u about ur management that u hv for ur car. If u don't mind ?
r u a retard? I thk u r.

:p :D :p

[yashooa]

Originally posted by Dr.Sound
LMAO !!!
"yahoo guy"
(rofl)

Yeah that SOM BITCH he's a Yashole!

[Dr.Sound]

ban the damn yahoo!!! BAN HIM!!! :D

lol @ yashole :)

[yashooa]

Originally posted by SenorCorwin
no thats not hat meant at all auto box tis more fo the fact that everyone thinks they know it all when thier learning themselves and the yahoo guy is just running around insulting everyone adn belittling everyone and it is totally unneedeed he asked for your thoughts and he just slams anyone thats not in his point of view. and discret s the perfect example of someone thats takes the risk and ups the boost and everyone flames him for t and he knows what he has done adn he takes response for it. I would say start modding without uping the oost help brake the engine in and then up the boost IMO

Holy crap I have a point of view? I am just tired of all the damn don’t breath too hard you may blow your motor swill. There was more involved in all of the cases than just that one factor. There is some crazy "MAD" fear mongering going in the MSP houze!
I never told anyone to run any amount of boost I simply stated what I was running and that driving style, maintenance, atmospheric conditions, fuel, other mods, and factory defects could have played a hand in the deaths of those few motors that have disassembled themselves. I am truly sorry you are too closed minded to see that :( Now excuse me I must go and cry. YOU DONT LIKE ME NOOOOO....:'( :'( :'(

In closing I would just like to say, Don't be a POONTANG.
And remember kids, Just say no to boost.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by Dr.Sound
ban the damn yahoo!!! BAN HIM!!! :D

lol @ yashole :)
Burn er! Why? Because shes a Witch!
How do you know shes a witch?
Because she floats!
Well wood floats.
Then she is made of wood and therefore she is a WITCH!
BURN ER, BURN ER, BURN ER!

[Dr.Sound]

(stoned)

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by SenorCorwin
no thats not hat meant at all auto box tis more fo the fact that everyone thinks they know it all when thier learning themselves and the yahoo guy is just running around insulting everyone adn belittling everyone and it is totally unneedeed he asked for your thoughts and he just slams anyone thats not in his point of view. and discret s the perfect example of someone thats takes the risk and ups the boost and everyone flames him for t and he knows what he has done adn he takes response for it. I would say start modding without uping the oost help brake the engine in and then up the boost IMO
its alright man, its in their nature to question what they dont understand :D
i upped my boost, OMG IMA BLOW UP MY MOTOR. QUICK YASH HELP MEEEEEE!

[The_Flamming_7]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
haha that was gay....HEY EVERYONE STOP MODDING YOUR CAR...YOULL GET NOTHIN OUT OF IT...WE'RE ALL 15 SEC CARS.

.....haha it was supposed to be sarcastic

[Mr. Win]

Originally posted by yashooa
Holy crap I have a point of view?....I simply stated what I was running and that driving style, maintenance, atmospheric conditions, fuel, other mods.

yahoo,
thats fine but you stated it over and over and over again we understand what your point of view and it was taken into consideration

If you hate boost so much just take it out go N/A the way power was orignally made.

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by The_Flamming_7
.....haha it was supposed to be sarcastic
i know man i was too.

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by yashooa
With the tsunami of fuel being dumped into the cylinders I have a hard time seeing where this magical "Lean" spot just appears. But hey you are the all knowing, all seeing, Cannuck Tard so I'm sure when Santa Claus drives the Easter bunny home in his midly modified MSP it will just explode like a Mutha Fugga.

See you on the side of the road crying like a sissy(crazy)

Who shit in your cornflakes? The thread asked what boost is "SAFE". Look it up in the dictionary. Safe means, reliable over the long term. I am sure your car running 12Psi on stock internals and no major modifications feels very fast. What are you some kind of scientific reject?

The question wasn't "Will it take it?" you Butt Tart.
It was will it be reliable over the long term.

I guess you don't care because you probably still live with your mom and she will just get you a new motor every time you blow it up. Don't be such a looser, If someone has a valid question like the originator of this thread did, don't just throw out some stupid arbitrary answer like. “12 Psi, No problem.” That goes against all reasonable thinking and you are irrational.

Later...

[ThrillRide]

Who shit in your cornflakes? The thread asked what boost is "SAFE". Look it up in the dictionary. Safe means, reliable over the long term. I am sure your car running 12Psi on stock internals and no major modifications feels very fast. What are you some kind of scientific reject? .
I guess you don't care because you probably still live with your mom and she will just get you a new motor every time you blow it up. Don't be such a looser, If someone has a valid question like the originator of this thread did, don't just throw out some stupid arbitrary answer like. “12 Psi, No problem.” That goes against all reasonable thinking and you are irrational.

Dear Lord man! Left off...or better yet get a life and get off the computer and go out to the garage and do something useful. I don't know this guy you call a "butt tart" but who gives a damn. stop jumping on people and do some good for a change you Negative Nancy! And NO safe does not have anything to do with long tern. Yes I own a dictionary! Why don't you hop on over to the P5 section you reject.

Mods should go ahead and move this retarted, and way off topic thread to flamewars

[jred321]

(stopwar) (strike)

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by ThrillRide
.

Dear Lord man! Left off...or better yet get a life and get off the computer and go out to the garage and do something useful. I don't know this guy you call a "butt tart" but who gives a damn. stop jumping on people and do some good for a change you Negative Nancy! And NO safe does not have anything to do with long tern. Yes I own a dictionary! Why don't you hop on over to the P5 section you reject.

Mods should go ahead and move this retarted, and way off topic thread to flamewars

Allow me to rephrase with less hate and a more positive tone…

The original question was… “So Boosting isn’t good” If I remember correctly.

A simple answer is…

Boost over a bit like to 8 Psi, that should be a good balance between Fun and not having to replace the engine every six months.

If you ask an engine that was designed for 180 HP… more…Much more, you shouldn’t expect it to last a long time.

I posted an answer like this a couple of days ago and was criticized by people who are possibly correct in that… Their car can run 12 or more Psi happily. I am happy for them and hope their motor lasts forever. However, If you step back for a minute, it doesn’t take a genius to realize that the car will probably not last as long as it would if you left it alone. I am running higher boosts on a MP5. I took the time and money to build it up so I wouldn’t have to worry about issues like blowing my motor. The person who started the thread obviously was looking for a yes/no answer that has many variables to it. Therefore, it is difficult to give a yes no answer.

Start at the bottom and work up. It’s the only way to be sure that you won’t someday be on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck in your brand new blown up car.

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by jred321
(stopwar) (strike)

“I have offered the proverbial Oak Leaf”

I will stop flaming people on the threads. It would help the board if we all tried this. It's not productive.


(p5white)

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by ThrillRide
.
Why don't you hop on over to the P5 section you reject.

aahaha(lurk)

[N1XRR]

There is one thing that everyone here has overlooked on these cars: the turbo's lifespan. This is with all turbo cars actually. The more PSI your producing the faster the turbo has to spin and the shorter the life of the turbocharger. I've been doing some ready, and talking to a few people, and it seems that ball bearing turbo's have a tendency to wear out quicker than a journal bearing turbo at higher speeds. 6-7 psi? The turbo should last the life of the car. 8-10psi? I don't know, you may cut 30000-40000 miles out of the life of the turbo. The thing is, nobody knows right now because nobody has one of these cars with 100,000+ miles on it.

Incase anybody wants to know: My car is stock. I have not even once let my car shut off hot(always cooled for at least 30 seconds). I always heat the car up to full temp before boosting the car at all(withen reason. 1-2psi is unavoidable on this car). I plan to install a turbo timer in the near future. *I DO NOT EXPECT THIS TURBO TO LAST MORE THAN 100,000 MILES*

This is just my experience with turbo cars. (Out of my experience with the Clemson Sports Car Club and my own experience). I have seen/used/worked on 20+ turbo cars. 2 of my own(2nd gen RX7, MSP), a 280Z swapped with a 280ZX Turbo motor(oil cooled), a 1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD, VW 1.8T's, Toyota Supra turbo(MKIII and MKIV), etc etc etc. The list goes on. They ALL have had some sort of turbo problem(except the MSP, new car).

Here's the short answer: If you mod your car for the turbo to be able to spin faster, the turbo will die quicker.

[ThrillRide]

“I have offered the proverbial Oak Leaf” I will stop flaming people on the threads. It would help the board if we all tried this. It's not productive.


good enough for me

[Dr.Sound]

dude, Brian, why the hell are u so negative all the time?
jessus, every thread u enter u start flaming or saying people are wrong.....

seriously dude, u come off like a dick.

yashooa is a long-time member who is respected arround here.
he also has a very good sence of humor (of which this site lacks.......mainly cause of people like u).

lighten up.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by SenorCorwin
yahoo,
thats fine but you stated it over and over and over again we understand what your point of view and it was taken into consideration

If you hate boost so much just take it out go N/A the way power was orignally made.
???? I luvs da boost she's ma favo-rite ho :D
I'm into the 12lbers myself.
Perhaps you cant read my sig.
(crazy) (poke) (crazy)

[yashooa]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
“I have offered the proverbial Oak Leaf”

I will stop flaming people on the threads. It would help the board if we all tried this. It's not productive.


(p5white)
No sweat man I love the MSP and basically all 3rd Gen Pros.
My Wife has a P5 and I would have bought one for My daughter new for less than 12 grand had I not missed out on Christmas Eve. I know you are knowledgeable and mean well. I try to put smileys all over th place to let people know I am joking heck, I don't see how people can take most of what I say seriously.
Come on. Once I said, Santa Claus was gonna drive the Easter Bunny home...Good G*D MAN! That shit aint real :p :D :p
I really do wish we had a new PCM/ECU to play with so we could make more power simply through better tuning. I am fairly confident that our cars have lots of potential in them even in mostly stock form. Joe seemed to be the most ardent supporter of this low cost high fun approach. I really wish he wasn't so in love with his "Stang" ;)
Your a cool guy and I don't even consider what you said as a flame and as a gesture of peace I will say you have graduated from a specimen of the Homo Arts to a specimen of the Bi-Sexual Arts (k) (pukey) (laugh) (laugh) (laugh)
Someday you may even make all the way to Hetroville.

l8ter...

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by yashooa
No sweat man I love the MSP and basically all 3rd Gen Pros...

...I really do wish we had a new PCM/ECU to play with so we could make more power simply through better tuning. I am fairly confident that our cars have lots of potential in them even in mostly stock form. Joe seemed to be the most ardent supporter of this low cost high fun approach. I really wish he wasn't so in love with his "Stang" ;)

l8ter...

Ok, It's difficult sometimes. Being opinionated is something everyone has to deal with and sometimes it's hard to bite your lip and just be silent.

SDS-EIC-2.

I have been pushing this as an alternative to Injectors and ECU.

Simple Digital Solutions makes an Extra Injector Controller.

It adds fuel before your throttle body. It is completely user programmable and fits really well in front of the shifter in the recess under the heater controls. I have one and have been using it for this entire past summer. It is even the Maximum Boost if you want some more info on it. Maybe an alternative for you as well.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
Ok, It's difficult sometimes. Being opinionated is something everyone has to deal with and sometimes it's hard to bite your lip and just be silent.

SDS-EIC-2.

I have been pushing this as an alternative to Injectors and ECU.

Simple Digital Solutions makes an Extra Injector Controller.

It adds fuel before your throttle body. It is completely user programmable and fits really well in front of the shifter in the recess under the heater controls. I have one and have been using it for this entire past summer. It is even the Maximum Boost if you want some more info on it. Maybe an alternative for you as well.

Fuel isn't the problem- timing is.. If you are comparing it to the P5 ECU- don't :). They run completely different under boost. I know a few guys with turboed P5's running a 5th injector. the MSP does NOT have the same fuel issues when under boost- the MSP ECU is (somewhat) tuned for it- the P5 isn't- therefore, you need some type of additional injector or fuel control for the P5 (and MP3 cars). I do agree that an AIC is convenient to make up for fuel problems, but not of use to most MSP guys. I was running mid/high 11:1 AFR's at 18-20 psi on a stock fuel system WITH my FPR kit to LEAN it out installed- like I said- fuel is not an issue :).
Joe
PS- If you have been into turbos for a while- you will remember the GN guys were using 7th injectors before the throttle bodies as a way to add more fuel. It works, but it is a crude setup and was only used by the "slower" (mod for mod) guys.

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
Fuel isn't the problem- timing is.. If you are comparing it to the P5 ECU- don't :). They run completely different under boost. I know a few guys with turboed P5's running a 5th injector. the MSP does NOT have the same fuel issues when under boost- the MSP ECU is (somewhat) tuned for it- the P5 isn't- therefore, you need some type of additional injector or fuel control for the P5 (and MP3 cars). I do agree that an AIC is convenient to make up for fuel problems, but not of use to most MSP guys. I was running mid/high 11:1 AFR's at 18-20 psi on a stock fuel system WITH my FPR kit to LEAN it out installed- like I said- fuel is not an issue :).
Joe
PS- If you have been into turbos for a while- you will remember the GN guys were using 7th injectors before the throttle bodies as a way to add more fuel. It works, but it is a crude setup and was only used by the "slower" (mod for mod) guys.

I agree, Corkey Bell even called it a simple reliable way to fix a problem in a sloppy way. It seems to be working very well for me. I'm waiting on a EGT this summer. It will be a much better indication if I am running lean or not. Autometer A/F seems to be a pretty light rather than an instrument to tune a car with. Perhaps a good ball park but not as scalpel.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
I agree, Corkey Bell even called it a simple reliable way to fix a problem in a sloppy way. It seems to be working very well for me. I'm waiting on a EGT this summer. It will be a much better indication if I am running lean or not. Autometer A/F seems to be a pretty light rather than an instrument to tune a car with. Perhaps a good ball park but not as scalpel.

That's a good way to put it :). Maybe I should have read the book :)..

Anyway- a wide band is better at measuring lean/rich conditions. Timing will affect EGT readings.
Joe

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
That's a good way to put it :). Maybe I should have read the book :)..

Anyway- a wide band is better at measuring lean/rich conditions. Timing will affect EGT readings.
Joe

After the amount of time that this GD car has been in a shop getting built, the last thing I want to do now is redesign the system. I understand that the suggestion of the wideband was a general FYI thing, but right now, I miss my car and want to drive the piss out of it. I'm only setting my sights on easy mods. It's finished, is what I told myself last summer, and here I am finishing it some more. Fuck!

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
After the amount of time that this GD car has been in a shop getting built, the last thing I want to do now is redesign the system. I understand that the suggestion of the wideband was a general FYI thing, but right now, I miss my car and want to drive the piss out of it. I'm only setting my sights on easy mods. It's finished, is what I told myself last summer, and here I am finishing it some more. Fuck!

Lol- and if you're anything like every other car guy out there- you will say "that's it- IT'S FINALLY DONE" about 5 more times before you finally just give in and say "fuck it, I'll take it as it comes" :)..
Joe

[yashooa]

Oh HELL YES! Now Joe and this dude going back and forth with all that knowledge is why I love to come here! Well that and to call people funny names :p :eek: :p
Joe you is "DA MASTA" Bryan you're ok to and that bit of input back and forth was a damn good read.
Thanks Fellas...(2thumbs) (rockon) (2thumbs)

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
Lol- and if you're anything like every other car guy out there- you will say "that's it- IT'S FINALLY DONE" about 5 more times before you finally just give in and say "fuck it, I'll take it as it comes" :)..
Joe

Yeah, the only thing that I really want to avoid is any kind of major mechanical failure. I designed and built this thing. I am the only one that really knows how it all goes together and works by trial and error.

See ya...:p

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by yashooa
Oh HELL YES! Now Joe and this dude going back and forth with all that knowledge is why I love to come here! Well that and to call people funny names :p :eek: :p
Joe you is "DA MASTA" Bryan you're ok to and that bit of input back and forth was a damn good read.
Thanks Fellas...(2thumbs) (rockon) (2thumbs)

:) Kewl

[dj JINX]

threadjack: Joe PLEASE pm me about my parts that where ordered on Dec 4th!!!! With no tracking number We (you) dont know where my parts are!! Not good.
threadjack complete !!!! resume tuning

[Brian MP5T]

"WTF is a BLING? And why would I want two of them?"

It's from the TV. commercials... Like toothpaste commercials, when buddy opens his mouth and a bunch of stars go " Bling, Bling"

[Zray]

Question: isn't it possible that the 2 or whatever MSP's that blew their engines with a boost controller just suffered a boost spike, which I've heard could happen with the cheaper mbc's? Spiking is the only thing that worries me about boosting. Regardless, I'm probably just going to keep my MSP stock until I can afford something in the next price range, perhaps a Mazda 6. If I were going to boost at all, I'd go with a dual-stage ebc with spike protection, and only after a few support mods, fuel controller + colder plugs etc.

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by Zray
Question: isn't it possible that the 2 or whatever MSP's that blew their engines with a boost controller just suffered a boost spike, which I've heard could happen with the cheaper mbc's? Spiking is the only thing that worries me about boosting. Regardless, I'm probably just going to keep my MSP stock until I can afford something in the next price range, perhaps a Mazda 6. If I were going to boost at all, I'd go with a dual-stage ebc with spike protection, and only after a few support mods, fuel controller + colder plugs etc.

Good call. Don’t be cheap with Boost. You have a $2500.00 engine and a $100.00 boost controller. Spending a couple extra dollars on a nice piece could be the difference between blowing and not blowing your $2500.00 fancy block of iron and aluminium.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by dj JINX
threadjack: Joe PLEASE pm me about my parts that where ordered on Dec 4th!!!! With no tracking number We (you) dont know where my parts are!! Not good.
threadjack complete !!!! resume tuning

As I tell everyone- PLEASE email me directly, I don't always check the boards. If you have- let me know who you are (your screen name here too)- when I get a PM or something with your screen name, then an email from a different name- I have no clue what is going on :).. I am not a mind reader, so I don't know who is who :). Even if we have been through it once already- I get over 150 emails a day and don't remember everything :).

My email address is kwiktsi@nycap.rr.com ...
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Zray
Question: isn't it possible that the 2 or whatever MSP's that blew their engines with a boost controller just suffered a boost spike, which I've heard could happen with the cheaper mbc's? Spiking is the only thing that worries me about boosting. Regardless, I'm probably just going to keep my MSP stock until I can afford something in the next price range, perhaps a Mazda 6. If I were going to boost at all, I'd go with a dual-stage ebc with spike protection, and only after a few support mods, fuel controller + colder plugs etc.

Spike even happened with my $500 Blitz DSBC- it is not just a problem with MBC's. The tiny turbo coupled with the fact that it is a BB turbo and a high compression motor spools faster than most controller can react. I had to turn the spool all the way down on my blitz to try to preven massive spike and it would still spike a PSI or two and vary from gear to gear. Before pointing fingers at the type of controllers a lot of people overlook the vehicles ineffeciencies also. With a properly setup car, you will have 0 spike, creep, etc. no matter what you use for control (except bleeder or "aquarium valve" type controllers).
Joe

[AutoBox]

another though is to just swap out the wastegate spring for one that opens the wastegate later.....would be less prone to spiking right ?!?!

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by AutoBox
another though is to just swap out the wastegate spring for one that opens the wastegate later.....would be less prone to spiking right ?!?!

No, it would cause it to spool even faster resulting in more spike at lower PSI's. You would just be moving it from the controller not responding fast enough to the wastegate not responding fast enough :).
Joe

[AutoBox]

hmm i though the wastegate would be quicker since its actually the one regulatin boost.....why doesnt the stock wastegate spike at stock boost but when u put a mbc on and only go anothe rpsi or so up it spikes ????

[kwiktsi]

because you are adding a restriction to the wastegate "circuit", causing it to spool faster- just like you would do by upping the spring pressure in the gate. It is *possible* it will not be as bad, but it will still happen. You are taking something that spools lightning fast, making it spool faster and expecting it to stop on a dime :).. Just like the faster you drive, the longer it takes to stop I guess :).
Joe

[Mr. Win]

yea my friend got the gates stuck all the way open at 20psi and wore thebearin right out of it haha

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by SenorCorwin
yea my friend got the gates stuck all the way open at 20psi and wore thebearin right out of it haha

Waht kind of car did you say this was? 2G DSM? That turbo can't handle high boost for long :).
Joe

[Mr. Win]

gst its been like that for over a year

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by SenorCorwin
gst its been like that for over a year

yeah, that's what I thought- 20 psi will cut the life of a T25 drastically :).. If it were a 1G with a 14B or something, 20 psi would barely affect it :).
Joe

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by AutoBox
another though is to just swap out the wastegate spring for one that opens the wastegate later.....would be less prone to spiking right ?!?!

That is fine if you have an external wastegate. I know Tial has more than 6 different springs for my wategate. The reality is that users on this board mostly have MSP stock setups with the T-25. this wastegate is set by the factory and I think it would be difficult to just get a "10 Psi" spring for the stock wastegate.

With just swapping the spring, there is no way to know where it will open unless you take it for a drive every time you swap springs.
Might over boost and cause damage.
The Boost controller is the way to go. Just make sure it's a good piece and the lines are as short as possible.

(p5white) (friday) (p5white)

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
because you are adding a restriction to the wastegate "circuit", causing it to spool faster- just like you would do by upping the spring pressure in the gate. It is *possible* it will not be as bad, but it will still happen. You are taking something that spools lightning fast, making it spool faster and expecting it to stop on a dime :).. Just like the faster you drive, the longer it takes to stop I guess :).
Joe

One other consideration might be that the wastegate can't open enough to slow the turbine at higher pressures. The gate has to open to allow ALL the exhaust by for a short time to allow the turbine to stop spooling higher then close a bit to maintain the spool. It's an very precise device, it must react quickly in millimetres changes to maintain Boost at WOT.

An external wastegate offers a much larger opening and a larger margin of error. I have never had an integrated wastegate and I realise that it is the industry standard and has been proven to be reliable but I would never own one. There are too many chances for something to fail and blow a motor.

Stock motors on stock boost...
(dark)

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
yeah, that's what I thought- 20 psi will cut the life of a T25 drastically :).. If it were a 1G with a 14B or something, 20 psi would barely affect it :).
Joe

The T-25 can't make 20 Psi. If you look at the pressure map for this design you will notice that to make even 17 Psi at the A/R that you need for the 2.0 L DOHC, the turbine would have to spin at upwards of 125,000 RPM and would fail. Also the Air Charge would be somewhere to the order of 250 Deg Celcius. :eek:

I know you were generalizing, just thought you would be interested in this info. (2thumbs)

Later...Brian(nana)

[AutoBox]

yeh well the t25 is pumpin hot air by 15psi so its not worth it anyway to push 20psi

[DiscreetSpeed]

by 15 psi? haha i highly doubt it.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
One other consideration might be that the wastegate can't open enough to slow the turbine at higher pressures. The gate has to open to allow ALL the exhaust by for a short time to allow the turbine to stop spooling higher then close a bit to maintain the spool. It's an very precise device, it must react quickly in millimetres changes to maintain Boost at WOT.

An external wastegate offers a much larger opening and a larger margin of error. I have never had an integrated wastegate and I realise that it is the industry standard and has been proven to be reliable but I would never own one. There are too many chances for something to fail and blow a motor.

Stock motors on stock boost...
(dark)

Actually, that may be true with heavier gates, but not the stock one- the stock one actually gets pushed open by the exhaust at higher psi!!!! Besides, the gate not opening enough would cause creep not spike :).
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
The T-25 can't make 20 Psi. If you look at the pressure map for this design you will notice that to make even 17 Psi at the A/R that you need for the 2.0 L DOHC, the turbine would have to spin at upwards of 125,000 RPM and would fail. Also the Air Charge would be somewhere to the order of 250 Deg Celcius. :eek:

I know you were generalizing, just thought you would be interested in this info. (2thumbs)

Later...Brian(nana)

It'll make it (actually to about 22-23) up to about 5000 rpm's- both on the DSM and the MSP then fall off to about 15-16. Been there, done that with both. To respond to the next reply (below yours) yes, they blow hot air at 15 psi, however- they are still cramming more into the motor. I have known guys to go very quick (12's) with T25 DSM's without even running a line to their wastegate- just maxing out the turbo. Effecient, no. Makes a bit more power- possibly :).
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
It'll make it (actually to about 22-23) up to about 5000 rpm's- both on the DSM and the MSP then fall off to about 15-16. Been there, done that with both. To respond to the next reply (below yours) yes, they blow hot air at 15 psi, however- they are still cramming more into the motor. I have known guys to go very quick (12's) with T25 DSM's without even running a line to their wastegate- just maxing out the turbo. Effecient, no. Makes a bit more power- possibly :).
Joe
PS- Just fyi- my dyno #'s kept climbing with boost, so the hot air wasn't hurting it as much as boost was helping it :). Just a not- my pulls were done on C16 race fuel witht he proper precautions, don't try this at home :).

[yashooa]

Lo and behold and thus Joe mightily put and end to the suckage and causeth the tuner tards to cower in fear by the weight of his powerful words.

[Mr. Win]

yahoos back!! hahah i tihnk the only things the MSP turbo is good for is spooling up another turbo. hah

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by SenorCorwin
i tihnk the only things the MSP turbo is good for is spooling up another turbo. hah

hahaha lol..
Joe

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
by 15 psi? haha i highly doubt it.

I do not want to start another flame war here so don't jump on this hard please. Hopefully we can squash some misinformation without pissing off the entire Mazda Board.
As you know, Mazda designed your MSP with an IC for a modest 6 PSi. Turning up the boost makes the turbo have to spin faster. As the turbo approaches the surge limit, it looses efficiency and the air charge gets hotter, much hotter. Are you trying to tell me that you know for a fact that a little T-25 with a surge limit of 17 Psi won't heat up air like a fucking afterburner over 15 Psi? Never mind the stress that is being placed on the supporting Bering. I don't know what you know about this little T-25 that I don't. To make 17 Psi with the A/R ratio required for this 2.0L DOHC engine the turbine on paper has to spin at speeds close to 125,000 RPM.
It's a mouse, not the HULK. It was designed for modest Boost and quick spool, it was not intended for 15 Psi. 15 Psi requires a totally different compressor like a T3/T4. (As you know )
You will have a hard time backing this up. I hope this was a joke or something.

Later...Brian

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
It'll make it (actually to about 22-23) up to about 5000 rpm's- both on the DSM and the MSP then fall off to about 15-16. Been there, done that with both. To respond to the next reply (below yours) yes, they blow hot air at 15 psi, however- they are still cramming more into the motor. I have known guys to go very quick (12's) with T25 DSM's without even running a line to their wastegate- just maxing out the turbo. Effecient, no. Makes a bit more power- possibly :).
Joe

I'd like to only reply to the lower part of your post...

We agree that it is not efficient, but heatsoaking an IC like that will cause it to run out of cooling ability and you might actually loose HP right before you detonate or worse Blow.

Again I would like to ask that this not be turned into a Flamewar.

Thanks...Brian

[AutoBox]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
by 15 psi? haha i highly doubt it.

I will second brian on keepin things civil here....coming from nissan sr20 motors that run stock t25..i can vouch that by 15psi a regular t25 is around its efficeny limit......sure u can turn it up more...but the gains are minimul compared to the sustained wear your causein the turbo....thats why you go to a larger turbo that can push more air...so its not spinning at hyper speed up wards of 125k rpm......u can look at the turbo charts provided by garret and other turbo manufacters....every turbo has an efficeny minimum and limit.....im no expert...i just learn from what i read and watch....and IMO....a t25 is worthless past 15psi...want more whp? pick up a modified t25 or t28...with larger wheels and housing so it can pump more air.....but our stock t25 are just not meant to be pumpin so fast.......as stated by brain already

[yashooa]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
I do not want to start another flame war here so don't jump on this hard please. Hopefully we can squash some misinformation without pissing off the entire Mazda Board.
It's a mouse, not the HULK. It was designed for modest Boost and quick spool, it was not intended for 15 Psi. 15 Psi requires a totally different compressor like a T3/T4. (As you know )
You will have a hard time backing this up. I hope this was a joke or something.

Later...Brian

Live by the flame die by the flame (flame2)
Bryan, you don't suffer from a form of cognitive tourettes that causes you to type out nonsensical tirades about boost levels, and heat soak do you?
(braindead (screwy) (braindead)
Our Mouse is a Mighty, Mighty little Wonder Rodent.
God Bless you little GT25R God bless you indeed.(usa)

:D :cool: :eek: :D

[AutoBox]

didnt we already put down that our cars have regular t25 turbos with BB center sections.....take that "g" sonny :)

t25 "r" <----- Mazda cool suffix for a damn BB center section

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by yashooa
Live by the flame die by the flame (flame2)
Bryan, you don't suffer from a form of cognitive tourettes that causes you to type out nonsensical tirades about boost levels, and heat soak do you? (braindead (screwy) (braindead)
Our Mouse is a Mighty, Mighty little Wonder Rodent.
God Bless you little GT25R God blees you indeed.(usa)

:D :cool: :eek: :D

As I thought, You really don't know. (laugh)

It's strong, but the boost levels you are talking about remind me of those T.V. Commercials with engines running with no oil in them. Painful and bound to fail shortly. (stoned)

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
I do not want to start another flame war here so don't jump on this hard please. Hopefully we can squash some misinformation without pissing off the entire Mazda Board.
As you know, Mazda designed your MSP with an IC for a modest 6 PSi. Turning up the boost makes the turbo have to spin faster. As the turbo approaches the surge limit, it looses efficiency and the air charge gets hotter, much hotter. Are you trying to tell me that you know for a fact that a little T-25 with a surge limit of 17 Psi won't heat up air like a fucking afterburner over 15 Psi? Never mind the stress that is being placed on the supporting Bering. I don't know what you know about this little T-25 that I don't. To make 17 Psi with the A/R ratio required for this 2.0L DOHC engine the turbine on paper has to spin at speeds close to 125,000 RPM.
It's a mouse, not the HULK. It was designed for modest Boost and quick spool, it was not intended for 15 Psi. 15 Psi requires a totally different compressor like a T3/T4. (As you know )
You will have a hard time backing this up. I hope this was a joke or something.

Later...Brian
YAH maybe the F!@#IN STOCK IC jackass!!! but i dont have the stock ic and 15 is nice, turned it up a notch and it spiked to like 21 and there was a big difference....and we dont have a regular dsm t25....
well no duh if you get a bigger wheel it will spin and make more power ....anyway IMO YOUR WRONG! the 15psi im pushing IS POWER.(nuts)

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by AutoBox
I will second brian on keepin things civil here....coming from nissan sr20 motors that run stock t25..i can vouch that by 15psi a regular t25 is around its efficeny limit......sure u can turn it up more...but the gains are minimul compared to the sustained wear your causein the turbo....thats why you go to a larger turbo that can push more air...so its not spinning at hyper speed up wards of 125k rpm......u can look at the turbo charts provided by garret and other turbo manufacters....every turbo has an efficeny minimum and limit.....im no expert...i just learn from what i read and watch....and IMO....a t25 is worthless past 15psi...want more whp? pick up a modified t25 or t28...with larger wheels and housing so it can pump more air.....but our stock t25 are just not meant to be pumpin so fast.......as stated by brain already
ANOTHER JACKASS!!

[yashooa]

Originally posted by AutoBox
didnt we already put down that our cars have regular t25 turbos with BB center sections.....take that "g" sonny :)

t25 "r" <----- Mazda cool suffix for a damn BB center section
You are a retard...
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=perEngineCallaway

It is a GT25R according to Mazda and Callaway.
But hey I'm sure one day they will invent a medication to help pop your head out of your ass.

[ThrillRide]

I like this one the most!

"The T25R turbo's ball bearing cartridge is much stronger and more durable than an ordinary journal bearing turbo. As long as the driver maintains his Protegé by changing his engine oil at regular intervals, the turbo will likely outlast the life of the engine.

[AutoBox]

call me a jackass when u have good proof a regular trim t25 (which we got....mazda just threw in a damn bb center section for kicks) andthen start ur gay ass flamin.....go email garret and flame then with ur immature shit cus u sound like ur suxin ur dick while ur typin. if you stick a temp probe and get the readin of the air comin out of the turbo ull watch the temps sky rocket.....how the fuck u gonna sit there and say im wrong when its from the fuckin garret techs fucker.....shut ur mouth before u look like a jackass....i already told you u can make power past 15psi...but ur turbo IS gonna go and u are pumpin hot fuckin ass air....fmic or stock ic......i recorded massive heat increase when i was pushin 18psi thru a buddies sr20 and he had a fuckin skyline fmic...probably twice the size of the shit u have on ur msp.....go grab a physics book bitch before u flame ppl tryin to have a damn conversation.

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
YAH maybe the F!@#IN STOCK IC jackass!!! but i dont have the stock ic and 15 is nice, turned it up a notch and it spiked to like 21 and there was a big difference....and we dont have a regular dsm t25....
well no duh if you get a bigger wheel it will spin and make more power ....anyway IMO YOUR WRONG! the 15psi im pushing IS POWER.(nuts)

I will only say that you are acting you age. Your just a little Baby.

I would like to ask you if you were born like this or if you have had to practice or take pills.

I never thought that I was so powerful a person to get a rise out of someone over a little telephone wire. Can you imagine how much I could upset you if I was in the same room as you??

Welcome to the discussion... Your welcome to leave. (or grow up)

[ThrillRide]

...i just learn from what i read and watch....

what you read and watch are created by failable people such as yourself. be careful little eyes what you see...be carefeull little ears what you hear.

I'm no expert either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AutoBox]

Originally posted by yashooa
You are a retard...
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=perEngineCallaway

It is a GT25R according to Mazda and Callaway.
But hey I'm sure one day they will invent a medication to help pop your head out of your ass.


lol your hilarious...read thrill's post and really look at the link u gave me...i counted at least 3 times it says "t25" there is no fuckin gt25r turbo through garret.....its just a rebadged t25 with a ball bearin center section......

here is a crow bar...go pop ur head out of my ass

[DiscreetSpeed]

umm i thought we were tryin to keep profanity to a min...ooooh im telling.......it was sarcasm...but you over blew it buddy
so whats the difference between our turb and a dsm turb?

[yashooa]

Originally posted by AutoBox
call me a jackass when u have good proof a regular trim t25 (which we got....mazda just threw in a damn bb center section for kicks) andthen start ur gay ass flamin.....go email garret and flame then with ur immature shit cus u sound like ur suxin ur dick while ur typin. if you stick a temp probe and get the readin of the air comin out of the turbo ull watch the temps sky rocket.....how the fuck u gonna sit there and say im wrong when its from the fuckin garret techs fucker.....shut ur mouth before u look like a jackass....i already told you u can make power past 15psi...but ur turbo IS gonna go and u are pumpin hot fuckin ass air....fmic or stock ic......i recorded massive heat increase when i was pushin 18psi thru a buddies sr20 and he had a fuckin skyline fmic...probably twice the size of the shit u have on ur msp.....go grab a physics book bitch before u flame ppl tryin to have a damn conversation.
And this has what to do with the name GT25R?
Hmm, maybe that magic physics book will teach you how to spell or is it written in Ebonics to?

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by ThrillRide
I like this one the most!

"The T25R turbo's ball bearing cartridge is much stronger and more durable than an ordinary journal bearing turbo. As long as the driver maintains his Protegé by changing his engine oil at regular intervals, the turbo will likely outlast the life of the engine.

Yes, good maintenance is the key to turbo life. But more load will wear out that piece sooner. I'm not saying that you shouldn’t do it... just don't expect it to last if you drive it harder.

(thumb)

[AutoBox]

lol....yeh i luv spendin my time dreamin up stuff to talk about on this damn forum....i just luv takin the time to type up facts that are told to me by scientists and engineers that created the shit on your cars......


sure it was sarcasm discret.....before or after u got ur head out of my ass????

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
I will only say that you are acting you age. Your just a little Baby.

I would like to ask you if you were born like this or if you have had to practice or take pills.

I never thought that I was so powerful a person to get a rise out of someone over a little telephone wire. Can you imagine how much I could upset you if I was in the same room as you??

Welcome to the discussion... Your welcome to leave. (or grow up)
yea i guess old man...im 23 your 29 or 30...yea im just a baby...
nice one.

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by AutoBox
lol....yeh i luv spendin my time dreamin up stuff to talk about on this damn forum....i just luv takin the time to type up facts that are told to me by scientists and engineers that created the shit on your cars......


sure it was sarcasm discret.....before or after u got ur head out of my ass????
your gay!
why are you comparing our turbo to the nissan ones or dsms?
if i remember theres arent bb. makes quite a difference.

[AutoBox]

show me exact text of mazda callin this turbo a gt25r?????
my whole post explained that this "gt25r" is basically a regular t25 trim turbo with a ball bearing section......mazda calls it a t25r everywhere on their site......its just their name....garret doesnt even have a gt25r in its product list.....

[yashooa]

Originally posted by AutoBox
discret.....before or after u got ur head out of my ass????
Ah Discreet you were keeping him company up there now isn't that sweet.

[AutoBox]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
your gay!
why are you comparing our turbo to the nissan ones or dsms?
if i remember theres arent bb. makes quite a difference.

to what extent discret? 350rpm or so faster spool up?? wow....thats great......its the effieceny of the nissan sr20 motor....i dotn care about the dsm one cus i dont know what trim it is...i know for a fact the sr20 t25 and ours is the same...except with can spool a lil faster

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by AutoBox
show me exact text of mazda callin this turbo a gt25r?????
my whole post explained that this "gt25r" is basically a regular t25 trim turbo with a ball bearing section......mazda calls it a t25r everywhere on their site......its just their name....garret doesnt even have a gt25r in its product list.....
yeah your gay!
g stands for garret moron.
GARRET TURBO 25R
some hand this idiot a fuckin manual

of course their not going to have it listed in that name.....duh!

[ThrillRide]

it is a GT25R folks...G stands for Garret therefore it is a Garret T25R ora Gt25r.......why are we arguing the name of this turbo again?

[AutoBox]

gt is the marking for gt series...as in garret turbos line of high end turbos......go look at the site .....i done throwin words...go look at facts

[DiscreetSpeed]

yea fuck-off idiot.

[AutoBox]

some how we went from talkin about the t25's efficeny to the name of it......im still pullin stuff from garrets website, and mazdas website......i dunno where discreet is gettin his from

[AutoBox]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
yea fuck-off idiot.


lol did u go to the site yet?

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
YAH maybe the F!@#IN STOCK IC jackass!!! but i dont have the stock ic and 15 is nice, turned it up a notch and it spiked to like 21 and there was a big difference....and we dont have a regular dsm t25....
well no duh if you get a bigger wheel it will spin and make more power ....anyway IMO YOUR WRONG! the 15psi im pushing IS POWER.(nuts)

Further, You really seem like you have a problem reading and understanding.

READ THE POST.

I said that Mazda designed it with an IC to illustrate that even at stock boost, Mazda recognized there is a heat effect when boosting air with a turbo.

All I was saying is that if this is true at stock boost, imagine how hot the air would be at 15 Psi.

Do you think I really don't know that there is a difference between 15 and 21 Psi? Get real and when you have something normal to bring to the table, I would be happy to hear what you think.
(bang)

[AutoBox]

i am just puttin facts on the table and my experiences with basiclaly the same turbo.....i dont mind havin a discussion about it...but if u have facts to prove me wrong put them down and show me...dont just yell stuff and throw in immature crap...

[ThrillRide]

autobox i got a Q....what psi are you running daily and when you race it?

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
Mazda designed your MSP with an IC for a modest 6 PSi. Turning up the boost makes the turbo have to spin faster.

As the turbo approaches the surge limit, it looses efficiency and the air charge gets hotter, much hotter.

Are you trying to tell me that you know for a fact that a little T-25 with a surge limit of 17 Psi won't heat up air like a fucking afterburner over 15 Psi?

Never mind the stress that is being placed on the supporting Bering. I don't know what you know about this little T-25 that I don't. To make 17 Psi with the A/R ratio required for this 2.0L DOHC engine the turbine on paper has to spin at speeds close to 125,000 RPM.
It's a mouse, not the HULK. It was designed for modest Boost and quick spool, it was not intended for 15 Psi. 15 Psi requires a totally different compressor like a T3/T4. (As you know )
You will have a hard time backing this up. I hope this was a joke or something.

Later...Brian


first off yes they did design it for that psi and yes its going to get real hot......all this with a stock ic!

yes thats what im trying to tell you with a aftermarket ic.

well no shit its a mouse and not a hulk. dont make me or US look like idiots.


thats all im saying.

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by ThrillRide
autobox i got a Q....what psi are you running daily and when you race it? probably stock and 9psi:rolleyes:

[AutoBox]

on my msp i ahve only done a few races at 10 psi...hit fuel cut both times.....took the mbc off til spring comes around.....i was boostin 15psi on my sr20 at 240whp and swaped to a t28 and was boostin 10psi at 275whp.......

[AutoBox]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
probably stock and 9psi:rolleyes:

have u looked at the garret website yet?

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by AutoBox
on my msp i ahve only done a few races at 10 psi...hit fuel cut both times.....took the mbc off til spring comes around.....i was boostin 15psi on my sr20 at 240whp and swaped to a t28 and was boostin 10psi at 275whp.......
heh i was right....but their you go again with the nissan thing...who gives a flyin fudge about the nissan.....he didnt ask you that.

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by AutoBox
have u looked at the garret website yet?
um whats your point?

[AutoBox]

lol look at the trim of the nissan t25 and the msp's t25 and ull know why i bring up the nissan :) and im still waitin on u to go to the site and show me a gt25r and where gt = garret turbo...and not their line of gt series turbos ....... do u have anything constructive to offer in this thread...cus i havent seen a damn thing from you

[ThrillRide]

thats cool about the sr20 but that doesn't matter, however I wish my MSP had 275. anyway the reason I ask is cause I knwo what discreet is running and is having no problems and it seems you are at just 10 psi. just curious

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
yea i guess old man...im 23 your 29 or 30...yea im just a baby...
nice one.

You cant add can you.

Plus you still have yet to answer my question...(smash)

[AutoBox]

Originally posted by ThrillRide
thats cool about the sr20 but that doesn't matter, however I wish my MSP had 275. anyway the reason I ask is cause I knwo what discreet is running and is having no problems and it seems you are at just 10 psi. just curious

and as i stated earlier.....how do u know he has no problems? have u measured his temps on the hot pipe? have u inspected his turbo for wear....have u seen his car on a dyno and watched his egr increase and a/f lean out? i dont think so...u would of stated it already if u have....the same conclusion can be drawn either way.....

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by DiscreetSpeed
first off yes they did design it for that psi and yes its going to get real hot......all this with a stock ic!

yes thats what im trying to tell you with a aftermarket ic.

well no shit its a mouse and not a hulk. dont make me or US look like idiots.


thats all im saying.

When you say “they” designed it for that...

You are referring to Mazda designing it for 10 or more Psi?? No.

FMIC, great. You have taken steps to reduce the problem of Heat soak...Why did you do this...Not because it looks cool...but because you know that the turbo makes more heat as it gets closer to the surge limit. Thanks for making my point and thank you for not swearing throughout you post.

(laugh)

[AutoBox]

it doesnt matter if its a t25 on a nissan motor...or a mazda one....or a damn pinto for all i care.....if the turbo is the same its still a fact from the makers of the turbo that past 15psi its effieceny drops like a rock.....just go look at the compressor charts.....

[ThrillRide]

auto are you saying he has all of the aformentioned? do you have all of those probelms from running 10psi and do you have and aftermarket FMIC?

[ThrillRide]

it does matter what engine you put a t25 on. you put it on a pinto and you will blow it sky high. fuel management and better internals allowed you to run it on the nissan. it is clear the reason for only 6-7 psi on the mazda...

[Brian MP5T]

Originally posted by ThrillRide
auto are you saying he has all of the aformentioned? do you have all of those probelms from running 10psi and do you have and aftermarket FMIC?

You have to help me out here...what are you asking. It wasn't very to the point. Thanks.

[Brian MP5T]

^^^^ Nevermind

[AutoBox]

Originally posted by ThrillRide
auto are you saying he has all of the aformentioned? do you have all of those probelms from running 10psi and do you have and aftermarket FMIC?

all what aformentioned? the turbo is fine at 10 psi...closer to 12psi is the sweet spot of the turbo honestly....but once u get past 15psi it drops......again...just look at the compressor charts that are avaiable on the web....its all there

[AutoBox]

Originally posted by ThrillRide
it does matter what engine you put a t25 on. you put it on a pinto and you will blow it sky high. fuel management and better internals allowed you to run it on the nissan. it is clear the reason for only 6-7 psi on the mazda...

u are bring in somehting totally off topic.....we are tlakin about the effieceny of the turbo...not the engine itself......

[AutoBox]

i havent even talked about the motor in any of my posts......from the begining i have been sayin the turbo ITSELF is not efficeny past 15psi...regardless of the motor

[Brian MP5T]

^^^^ Sorry guys, this never should have turned into a fucking flame. Auto is correct; you must all be able to agree that the turbine is struggling at 15 Psi. it was never meant to be put under that load...

Agreed??
:confused:

[AutoBox]

once u start to modify it...larger wheels, compressor houseing, even increasin the flow of the wastegate...then the turbo's efficeny is increased.....but the stock trim t25 turbo on our car IS NOT efficeny past 15psi......again....just look at the technical data garret provides

[AutoBox]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
^^^^ Sorry guys, this never should have turned into a fucking flame. Auto is correct; you must all be able to agree that the turbine is struggling at 15 Psi. it was never meant to be put under that load...

Agreed??
:confused:


flame wars are :bs: i apperciate thrill bring it out of that and actually havin a discussion with me.....and i agree'ed from the begining brain.....its all there guys....just read up and learn....thats how i did it

[ThrillRide]

it doesnt matter if its a t25 on a nissan motor

my apologies i thought you were making reference to the engine/motor in that comment. i was simply stating that it does matter.

[Brian MP5T]

Wow, a normal conversation. Sweet! (drinks)

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by Brian MP5T
^^^^ Sorry guys, this never should have turned into a fucking flame. Auto is correct; you must all be able to agree that the turbine is struggling at 15 Psi. it was never meant to be put under that load...

Agreed??
:confused:


fuck no

flame wars are i apperciate thrill bring it out of that and actually havin a discussion with me.....and i agree'ed from the begining brain.....its all there guys....just read up and learn....thats how i did it
your still gay.


Wow, a normal conversation. Sweet!
nope cause im still interupting.

[DiscreetSpeed]

im joking....ill stop being an idiot now.
i am leaving the building....

oh and it is a GARRET TURBO-25R
IF YOU CANT FIND THAT OUT YOURSELF THEN YOU ARE GAY!
it has been discussed so many times....

ok ok im leaving now.

[AutoBox]

lol its ok discreet....all of garret's turbos are called gt-25,28,3,4....right......i guess u still havent gone to their website....
ur the only one that seems to still be acting like a fool.....but really its ok discreet.......and i also apoligize thrill for confusing you...i was just showin that the sr20 has the same basic turbo as us and that i had the same t25 efficency troubles on my motor when i had my nissan....nothing more or less then that......

[yashooa]

Originally posted by AutoBox
lol its ok discreet....all of garret's turbos are called gt-25,28,3,4....right......
Autocox do you have a chemical imbalance?
Maybe some antidepressants for your chemical health and some Pamprin for your cramps.
Glad to see you have come to terms with the name of our turbo GT25R.

[AutoBox]

(rofl) (rofl)

im still waitin for proof that our turbo is this awesome "gt25r".....lol gt= garret turbo lol......and yash....what cramps? the only thing buggin me are ur stupid ass worthless attempts to look like you know something.......please....get a life or at least offer something useful for this thread besides ur own pointless thoughs that i guess makes you feel special

[ThrillRide]

g stands for garrett, i think we go that one....and t stands for...yes you guessed it TURBO and the R stand for the 'Rolling' element in the single cartridge duel ball bearing design.

[AutoBox]

explain to me somehting...why would garret only call our turbo gt as in garret turbo and all the other turbos are all t25,t28,t3,t4 ????? just click on over to their site and see for urself...GT = garrets line of high end technology advanced turbos.....

[AutoBox]

and where does mazda or callaway call our turbo a "gt25r" all over mazdausa it says "t25r"

[ThrillRide]

damnit auto.....is my word not good enough. well of course not....that quote came from the garrett catalog. GT25R sheesh:rolleyes:

[AutoBox]

ive been through their site over and over....i havent found a gt25r......do u have a part # on it...since u have the catalog?

[ThrillRide]

at first the name arguement was pointless but that was before i realized you think what eeryone calls a t25 is any different than the real name GT25R. people like to shorten things to t25. Oh and here is a good one for you. THe line used to be called NGT but they realized NGT25R or NGT28RS was too long and too gay. now it is one letter less...bye bye N

[ThrillRide]

jsut got your last post. i'll find it for you. 1 sec.....

[AutoBox]

Originally posted by ThrillRide
damnit auto.....is my word not good enough. well of course not....that quote came from the garrett catalog. GT25R sheesh:rolleyes:

and where does it even say our car is equiped with a gt25r???? even the link u showed us earlier says t25r repeatively...do they just want to throw the "g" out for fun?

[AutoBox]

hhmmm that doesnt add up.....but oh well....i always watched gt and t as two different turbos...gt series has always bee their top of the line turbos runnin their latest technlogy...bb...dual bb...etc etc etc......

[AutoBox]

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/garage_shop/downloads.html

scroll down to the bottom and click on "gt vs. t" whats the difference

i found this thrill, now im really confused if ur sayin ppl just cut the g out cus they are lazy