Question on Monster 5.0 Miatas [Archive]

Mazda100

11-26-2003, 01:00 PM

I was reading on the price of building one, and it says that the conversion cost was 16,000$ (Plus the price of the car) is this true?? The engine should cost close to 4000$ Maybe this site was just high or something...is there that much fabrication in it? Maybe someone here has actually done it, and can tell me what it costs. Maybe they paid someone else to do the work :confused:

Thanks guys!

FC3s Boy

11-26-2003, 01:16 PM

take that V8 and toss it , there are a few guys making 400hp to the wheels on a stock block 1.8 miata, if you would like to ruin a good car go right ahead.

KpaBap

11-26-2003, 01:18 PM

Well, you need an engine, tranny, ppf, rear diff... etc etc etc

$16k sounds a little high to me.

This site has some good info but no prices whatsoever...
http://freespace.virgin.net/bob.carter/Mazda_mx5_V8.htm

You should really be asking at miataforum.com

http://forum.miata.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=34

Mazda100

11-26-2003, 01:22 PM

I was hoping that when I joined here that I could ask my questions here and not have to be directed somewhere else, oh well I'll join there 2. I'll still hang out here also. But if anyone here has a V-8 Miata or knows how much it costs answer.

FC3s Boy:

Are you gonna argue with 0-60 in high 4's? 1/4th mile in high 12's?

wscottl

11-26-2003, 01:31 PM

I have a V8 Miata, and a turbo Miata. They both have good points and bad points.

We built ours for under $2k. Check it out here. (http://www.v8miata.homestead.com/buildup.html) If you can't weld or fabricate, you'll need the kit. (http://www.v8miata.com) If you can, you can save yourself a bunch of money. You can pick up the drivetrain from a donor car for under $2k. Sell off what you don't need to help reduce costs.

You'll find more information at the Miata.net V8 Forum (http://forum.miata.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=34;DaysPrune=30)

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

-Scott

Darin

11-26-2003, 01:48 PM

Thanks for the link Scott - Which do you enjoy more, the turbo or the v8? :)

FC3s Boy:
400hp 1.8L miatas are by FAR the exception...I don't know of any which ran for more than several months. I'd be hard pressed to argue against the reliability of 200-300+whp from a N/A V8.

Mazda100

There are plenty of 12 second boosted Miatas...

Mazda100

11-26-2003, 01:55 PM

running what boost? With stock internals?

FC3s Boy

11-26-2003, 02:15 PM

there are a few mx5 that run in the 12's, the extra weight of the v8 will ruin the perfect handling that the miata is known for. It's like when the rednecks stuff v8 into rx7's it just kills me.

maitai92

11-26-2003, 02:34 PM

NA Miata's (90-97) stock internals can handle up to 12psi of boost
some went as high as 15psi (when properly tuned)w/ no problem what so ever. If you go to www.miataforum.com under power you will get plenty of response from experienced turbo miata owners. There is is also few members that ran as low as hi 13s on a 8-9psi turbo Miata.

Darin

11-26-2003, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by FC3s Boy
there are a few mx5 that run in the 12's, the extra weight of the v8 will ruin the perfect handling that the miata is known for. It's like when the rednecks stuff v8 into rx7's it just kills me.

Uh...you haven't done any research on V8 swaps in miatas, have you? The 'whole car' gets heavier - not just the nose. Most V8-swap authorities report a weight distribution of 51% front, 49% rear. Pretty damn good. Weight Dist. is but ONE aspect of a car's over-all 'handling'.

Darin

11-26-2003, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by maitai92
NA Miata's (90-97) stock internals can handle up to 12psi of boost
some went as high as 15psi (when properly tuned)w/ no problem what so ever. If you go to www.miataforum.com under power you will get plenty of response from experienced turbo miata owners. There is is also few members that ran as low as hi 13s on a 8-9psi turbo Miata.

I've seen one stock-rods (but new pistons + headwork) miata, 1.8L hit 399whp....it blew up, IIRC.

12 psi is what FlyinMiata labels "Safe for extended use - more or less" on the 90-97 Models, iirc. It's all about proper tuning.

Dexter

11-26-2003, 02:51 PM

how can you say "a miata block can handle 8-9 PSI" without stating the type of turbo and system.

Mazda100

11-26-2003, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by FC3s Boy
there are a few mx5 that run in the 12's, the extra weight of the v8 will ruin the perfect handling that the miata is known for. It's like when the rednecks stuff v8 into rx7's it just kills me.

From what I've heard it doesn't kill the wieght distribution, just adds some wieght that's all, I forget what the weight distibution was. Also just cause someone wants to put a V-8 into a light car doesn't make them a redneck.

Mazda100

11-26-2003, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Darin
Uh...you haven't done any research on V8 swaps in miatas, have you? The 'whole car' gets heavier - not just the nose. Most V8-swap authorities report a weight distribution of 51% front, 49% rear. Pretty damn good. Weight Dist. is but ONE aspect of a car's over-all 'handling'.

thank you :D

Darin

11-26-2003, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Dexter
how can you say "a miata block can handle 8-9 PSI" without stating the type of turbo and system.

I think the general assumption is "Stock" and "Most turbo systems"

There are always extremes, on either end.

FC3s Boy

11-26-2003, 03:04 PM

FC3s Boy

11-26-2003, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Mazda100
From what I've heard it doesn't kill the wieght distribution, just adds some wieght that's all, I forget what the weight distibution was. Also just cause someone wants to put a V-8 into a light car doesn't make them a redneck.
putting a v8 in a rx7 does make you a redneck, i just think with all of the technology out there you could make pleanty of power without a v8 swap.

Darin

11-26-2003, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by FC3s Boy
putting a v8 in a rx7 does make you a redneck, i just think with all of the technology out there you could make pleanty of power without a v8 swap.

Some people want the kind of neck-snapping low end torque which can't be made w/o displacement...some people just think 'it's neat'.

Someone with a very limited view on 'performance' or 'sport' gets offended at somebody else's hard work.

(shrug)

Darin

11-26-2003, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by FC3s Boy
no darin i have'nt , i just like to do more with less.

You can't. A Turbo system producing as much reliable power as a V8 swap won't be cheap - will hardly be 'more'...

:-/

FC3s Boy

11-26-2003, 03:17 PM

different strokes for differnt folks i guess, good luck

KpaBap

11-26-2003, 03:20 PM

A V8 Miata is no longer a Miata. Just like a Corvette powered 510 is not a 510.

kthxdie.

Darin

11-26-2003, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by FC3s Boy
different strokes for differnt folks i guess, good luck

I just think you are using bad logic for a reason not to like the conversions - if you don't like them, 'not'-like them for the right reasons at least.. :)

:D

johnsharpe

11-26-2003, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Mazda100
I was reading on the price of building one, and it says that the conversion cost was 16,000$ (Plus the price of the car) is this true?? The engine should cost close to 4000$ Maybe this site was just high or something...is there that much fabrication in it? Maybe someone here has actually done it, and can tell me what it costs. Maybe they paid someone else to do the work :confused:

Thanks guys!

There used to be a shop in North Vancouver BC that built these cars, as well as replica Shelby Cobras. From the rumour mill, their cost started at $15000(cdn) plus a stock Miata. Upgrades included the drivetrain (engine, tranny, rear end, etc), wheels/tires, suspension, brakes plus others. The engine could be configured as you wanted (n/a, turbo, s/c, etc).

There used to be one of these up the street form my parent's place, Vortech s/c running 8psi, 3" exhaust, etc dyno'd at 367hp at the flywheel, according to the stamp on the intake manifold.

It sounded awesome and was super fast.

FC3s Boy

11-26-2003, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Darin
I just think you are using bad logic for a reason not to like the conversions - if you don't like them, 'not'-like them for the right reasons at least.. :)

:D
ha ha darin, i'm just a hard core mazda guy (since '78) that is why i don't care for them.

Darin

11-26-2003, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by johnsharpe
There used to be a shop in North Vancouver BC that built these cars, as well as replica Shelby Cobras. From the rumour mill, their cost started at $15000(cdn) plus a stock Miata. Upgrades included the drivetrain (engine, tranny, rear end, etc), wheels/tires, suspension, brakes plus others. The engine could be configured as you wanted (n/a, turbo, s/c, etc).

There used to be one of these up the street form my parent's place, Vortech s/c running 8psi, 3" exhaust, etc dyno'd at 367hp at the flywheel, according to the stamp on the intake manifold.

It sounded awesome and was super fast.

used to be? So they are no longer in business? :(

I'd love a local shop that would do the work for so cheap.

Darin

11-26-2003, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by FC3s Boy
ha ha darin, i'm just a hard core mazda guy (since '78) that is why i don't care for them.

That's a fair reason. :D

(thumb)

wscottl

11-26-2003, 06:08 PM

A V8 Miata is no longer a Miata. Just like a Corvette powered 510 is not a 510.

Why? What about a adding a turbo? Installing an RX-7 rear? FE3 conversions? Are these still considered Miatas? What's the limit?

I call the V8 a Miata because it still drives and handles like a Miata. Same suspension points, same weight distribution, same driving position. Until you drive it, it's hard to describe how well it handles.

I also like the idea of doing more with less. My 1.6L Miata has dynoed 285 rwhp. That was at 12psi and nitrous. I like the idea of having 178.125 hp/L, that's pretty impressive to me. I think I have a pretty nice turbo Miata, but the V8 is more fun to drive.

When we were building the V8, the muscle car friends would say we are fixing the Miata. I always said we were fixing the 302 by putting it in a respectable chassis. Until you actually tear a Miata down, it's pretty amazing how adaptable the stock chassis is. It's like it was made for the conversion.

Free test drives to anyone willing to come to PA.

-Scott

Mazda100

11-26-2003, 07:51 PM

would it just be cheaper to buy a mustang, that's what I'm trying to find out. Is it cheaper to put the V-8 in the miata or to just buy a mustang? I know that it's faster to put a V-8 in a miata.

wscottl

11-26-2003, 09:45 PM

would it just be cheaper to buy a mustang

Overall cost, yes, but then you would have just a Mustang. Ever driven a Mustang? For more than a day?

-Scott

Darin

11-26-2003, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by Mazda100
Is it cheaper to put the V-8 in the miata or to just buy a mustang? I know that it's faster to put a V-8 in a miata.

See, I guess you have to ask yourself:

"Self, do I want a fast CAR, or a fast MIATA?"

"What" is faster to put a v8 in a miata? Do you mean V8 miatas are 'faster' than mustangs? that's a poor comparison. There'll ALWAYS be a faster car, somewhere...

Scott - have you dyno'd the v8 Miata? Will you do the swap for MY car, if I drove it to you? :-)

Mazda100

11-27-2003, 01:08 AM

No if you put a V-8 in a Mazda Miata it is faster then a Stock Mustang 5.0. Because it is lighter. Is it worth the money to do the swap? Or is it better to spend that money ona stang? I'm trying to see if it's worth the money to do the swap, or if I should just get a mustang. Although I would hate to be in a wreck at all, I'd sure hate to be in a wreck in a Mita.

Darin

11-27-2003, 01:46 AM

Figure it'd run you close to $20K for a miata, and V8 swap. Frankly, for the money, if you 'just want a fast car', buy a mustang.

(shrug)

Captain KRM P5

11-27-2003, 02:09 AM

Originally posted by Dexter
how can you say "a miata block can handle 8-9 PSI" without stating the type of turbo and system.

FMII kits on pre1999 Miatas could run 12 psi on stock goods, I believe with garrett style T3s. post 1999 Miatas running FMII turbo kits were limited to 9 psi and a custom intake manifold running extra injectors.

the upcoming FM4 system will push a "comfortable 350+ whp"

wscottl

11-27-2003, 06:36 AM

Scott - have you dyno'd the v8 Miata?

Not yet, hopefully someday. 1/4 times put it around 230.

>Will you do the swap for MY car, if I drove it to you? :-)[/QUOTE]

I'd rather just swap cars. I'm kidding.

-Scott

Darin

11-27-2003, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by wscottl
I'd rather just swap cars. I'm kidding.

-Scott

Don't tease me... :)

Mazda100

11-27-2003, 12:48 PM

"Figure it'd run you close to $20K for a miata, and V8 swap."

I'd get a 90's model used. for about 3000$ or less if I can. Then how much would the swap cost?

Darin

11-27-2003, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by Mazda100
"Figure it'd run you close to $20K for a miata, and V8 swap."

I'd get a 90's model used. for about 3000$ or less if I can. Then how much would the swap cost?

$20K - $3000 for the car = $17K...fairly accurate by most standards.

There happens to be a V8 miata for sale on Ebay right now...

As mentioned before, unless you can do the work yourself, figure $15-20K in parts and labor.

Check out Miata.net forums under engine swaps, etc.

Mazda100

11-27-2003, 01:13 PM

ok, if I did some of the work myself???

Darin

11-27-2003, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Mazda100
ok, if I did some of the work myself???

You are asking people to look into a crystal ball and come up with hard numbers now.

Do some research online; find specific costs of all the parts you need...factor in whatever skills you have w/ welding, etc...then you'll have your answers.

Mazda100

11-27-2003, 08:36 PM

alright thanks dude, darin your a cool guy.

Miques

11-27-2003, 08:43 PM

wscottl

11-27-2003, 08:45 PM

I've got a v8 rx7 and it kicks ass.

Redneck. ;)

-Scott

Miques

11-27-2003, 08:50 PM

I can't be a redneck i went to a private school my whole life and drink french sodas.:)

Captain KRM P5

11-27-2003, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by Miques
I've got a v8 rx7 and it kicks ass.

so does that make a V8x7 instead? really, seems to defeat the purpose of having the car.

Miques

11-27-2003, 10:36 PM

hey you know what, really I had no choice. The rotory went boom and I just happened to have a spare chevy engine and trans laying around.

EticketP5

11-27-2003, 11:09 PM

500 for a 65 stang w/ a inline 6...5.0 swap......

............PRICELESS..............

Why ruin a miata................. hAPPY tHANKSGIVING

Mazda100

11-28-2003, 12:45 AM

how fast would that be? pretty dang slow!

KpaBap

11-28-2003, 07:29 PM

yeah, those shitty slow 5.0 fastbacks...

Mazda100

11-28-2003, 11:54 PM

5.0 in a heavy car like that isn't going to do that well stock that is. But a 351 Cleveland. WOW don't they pull high 13's low 14's stock??? At least I think the boss did!

Darin

11-29-2003, 01:46 AM

Originally posted by Mazda100
5.0 in a heavy car like that isn't going to do that well stock that is. But a 351 Cleveland. WOW don't they pull high 13's low 14's stock??? At least I think the boss did!

uh?

Ford 302s (the 5.0 you are talking about) can be built in excess of 500hp by shade-tree mechanics.

They are amazing platforms to build.

Most 'classic' muscle cars ran high 13s at best, quite a number went slower.

Luv2RedLine

12-01-2003, 02:34 PM

What can really be done with a miata...This might have already been posted but this is what can be done w/o ruining the handling and some that are monsters....Fastest miatas (http://www.wwtfd.org/bigdmiata/fastest.php)

wscottl

12-01-2003, 02:38 PM

Cool, two in the top 13.

-Scott

Darin

12-01-2003, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by Luv2RedLine
What can really be done with a miata...This might have already been posted but this is what can be done w/o ruining the handling and some that are monsters....Fastest miatas (http://www.wwtfd.org/bigdmiata/fastest.php)

Notice the trap speed for the quickest v8 miata - 129mph - that's plenty of power to knock of .5 or more...it's traction that's killing it...even some of the low-11-second turbo miatas would probably lose in a street race against it. (e.g., rolling start, etc).

:)

Mazda100

12-04-2003, 07:33 AM

nothing drag radials wouldn't fix right? But havinga 5.0 ina heavy muscle car isn't going to be that fast maybe mid 2 high 14's at best. I know they can be built to 500HP which is probably what I'll end up doing.

Darin

12-04-2003, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by Mazda100
nothing drag radials wouldn't fix right? But havinga 5.0 ina heavy muscle car isn't going to be that fast maybe mid 2 high 14's at best. I know they can be built to 500HP which is probably what I'll end up doing.

(sigh)...

the 'size' of the V8 in ANY car, be it a 'heavy' muscle car or miata, isn't as important as the state of tune of the engine. A 500hp 5.0 in a 65 Mustang body = 11s or 12s in the 1/4 mile, easy.

Do you know how to build a 500hp v8? :)

Luv2RedLine

12-04-2003, 09:10 AM

Lucky you...I wish I had that kinda money. I've ridden with #9 on the list and he is now near the top 5(aka Bassmaster). I think I'd go the turbo route and not the v8 even though I loooove the sound of a niice v8. purrrrrrr. But this goes back to the american muscle vs. japanese technology issue.

m1ataman

01-01-2004, 04:45 AM

It depends what you want to do with your Miata. Drag racing 5.0 litre conversion is hard to beat (not only HP increase but huge increase in low end torque) but you'll require 3rd gen RX7 rear end to handle the extra load. We have a "monster" Miata in our Miata Club converted by "Cardiac" in Vancouver- total sleeper- even quieter than stock Miata but he's had lots of troubles with differentials etc. handling that extra power.

Luv2RedLine

01-01-2004, 10:07 AM

That's true. Even if you get too much power with FI you'll need a stronger rear end. After 2 or 3 rear ends one of the guys up the street from me put in the RX-7 diff(he's got t03/04 and ran high 12's). It makes the drive shaft from the stock tranny less than 2 feet long.

Darin

01-05-2004, 05:03 PM

IIRC, a good number of v8-swap miatas use the Rear end from the RX7 Turbo II, OR the rear end bits from a T-Bird SuperCoupe

:D

Mazdaspeedgirl

01-05-2004, 05:09 PM

#2 11.1 E/T
94 miata Custom turbo NO TEC 2
Jenn Tipton (Miata_Mamma)

This is the lady I knew in Kentucky. She also has a monster miata.

Luv2RedLine

01-06-2004, 10:24 AM

Isn't her car red? Well the #2? I think I've seen a vid from one of her burn out contests. Ahhhh...what a nice miata.

Mazdaspeedgirl

01-06-2004, 05:08 PM

Yep. It's red with dual white racing stripes. She calls it her Candy Cane. :)

JDuncan

01-23-2004, 09:08 PM

Jenn's cardomain site...

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/412854

She is Jennifer Frazier now as opposed to Jennifer Tipton. She got hitched. On a side note, she is selling her Monster Miata for $18500 which is an absolute steal. Also for sale is their beater Miata turbo and her husband's built T-88 RX-7. They are having to make way for a couple of Loti.

Mazdaspeedgirl

01-24-2004, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by JDuncan
Jenn's cardomain site...

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/412854

She is Jennifer Frazier now as opposed to Jennifer Tipton. She got hitched. On a side note, she is selling her Monster Miata for $18500 which is an absolute steal. Also for sale is their beater Miata turbo and her husband's built T-88 RX-7. They are having to make way for a couple of Loti.

WHY do they have to sell Ghetto Fab AFTER we leave...:( me wantee...