Is there an aftermarket Turbo Manifold out for our MSPs?

[JTP]

I see them for Eclipses and stuff all the time. But never for our car. Also would it really make much of a difference from ours , or is ours already pretty much good enough?

[pdhaudio83]

spoolinmp3
www.spool-turbo.com
i believe

[iON Performance]

JTP - we'll be releasing our tuned equal-length casted turbo-manifold in the spring :)

[Striker187]

personally, i don't think it'll make that much of a difference with the little gt25. if you upgrade the turbo though, an equal length manifold would be cool :)

[jred321]

not worth upgrading unless you're changing the turbo. there are MANY other weaknesses of the car to spend money on if you need to.

p.s.- it's called an exhaust manifold, not a turbo manifold

[SOSPEED]

Originally posted by jred321
not worth upgrading unless you're changing the turbo. there are MANY other weaknesses of the car to spend money on if you need to.

p.s.- it's called an exhaust manifold, not a turbo manifold

This is an upgrade worth getting!!! If you take off our heat shield you will see that the turbo is placed on one side not in the center and also the runners on the turbo manifold, and yes it is called a turbo manifold, are very big. Why, I think its bc this is the same turbo setup that’s used on the 2.0 liter turbo diesel in Europe and they use bigger runner on there exhaust manifolds. I also was taking to terry at spool and he said by putting an equal length manifold on the MSP would give faster spool up, better throttle response and a small increase in power..

[MSPDAVE125]

Innovative Turbo offers a manifold aswell.

$1400.00 USD

Release Jan'04

See press release.

Press Release (http://innovativeturbo.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/00156.1.558332019620812574)

[MSPDAVE125]

Originally posted by iON Performance
JTP - we'll be releasing our tuned equal-length casted turbo-manifold in the spring :)


Jack!

What about offering a T3 flange aswell?

[jred321]

in my opinion, there is no need to upgrade anything that is t25 specific, which is why i stated such. you can upgrade plenty of things that are non-t25 specific that will carry over when a turbo upgrade is done so you won't have to redo anything and can still see plenty of benefits from these upgrades. there are many other weaknesses to address before spending $500+ on a tubular exhaust manifold (specifically the fuel system and the tuning of it, among other things), since nobody is going to be making a cast unit.

and chapter 10 in maximum boost is titled "Exhaust Manifold Design," not turbo manifold design. i think Corky Bell knows what he's talking about. go find a turbo manifold for a dsm, you won't. you'll find plenty of exhaust manifolds though. but really it's just terminology, and they're interchangeable, neither one is right or wrong, i just dislike the term turbo manifold

[KyRaceFan]

the t3 and t25 flange is the same. either turbo will bolt on.
same flange used on a td04-15g... and others.


exhaust manifold, turbo manifold.. its the same thing.

[jred321]

the t3 flange is not the same as the t25, if it were people on this board would have already just bolted up a t3/t04. and people with sr20's wouldn't have to upgrade the manifold to go with a t3/t04. the t25 flange is the same as the t2 flange, or any 2 series like the t28. as far as the mitsu turbo, i'm not sure about that, but i know none of the other g series (13g, 16g, 18g, 20g, etc...) are going to bolt right up.

http://www.sfp.net/turbo_man_detail.asp?id=30 these guys wouldn't make you specify if they were the same.

[JTP]

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclturbos.htm

Check that out. The 2g eclipse has a Garret T-28 turbo stock. Looks like the 16g would bolt right up with some new piping. Or am I reading that wrong? Thanks for all the replys.

[jred321]

first, the 2g eclipse has a garrett t-25, which is one of many mistakes they made on this car :)
second, it has a mitsubishi flange, it is not just a straight garrett turbo, which is why a mitsubishi 16g will bolt right up. you cannot bolt a t-25 from a sr20det to this manifold, for example. we do not have a mitsubishi turbo flange on our turbos, it is a straight garrett flange, and a t-25 from a 2g dsm will not bolt up to our manifold.

[JTP]

Ok. That clears things up. I meant to put T-25.

Why dont we just bolt up a sr20det into one of our cars and be done with it lol.(hump)

[JTP]

What I meant by that was swap our engine for the sr20det. It was a joke. Not a very good one I guess.

[jred321]

i knew what you were sayin :)

all you'd need is an engine, ecu, wiring stuff, a bunch of custom piping/tubing, a way to either mate our transmission to the motor or get their transmission to fit on our car, among other things :)

[dj4monie]

If this is true (that any T-2 series would fit), couldn't you use a GT-28R or GT-25/40 Hybrid?

That's what I was thinking you could do. If not, I'm not sure I wanna spend a grip for the turbo I do want and another $500-600 for a different turbo manifold.

[MSPDAVE125]

Callaway was very careful to ensure that ONLY the Callaway GT25 would mount our manifold. In fact from furthere inspection, it almost looks like a one piece design. (It's not, but it sure looks like it.)

You'll need a new manifold to accomodate a new turbo.

[turboboy]

This is so NOT TRUE ! The T25 that came with the MSP use a standard rectangle inlet flange and the outlet also uses a standard five bolts pattern. You can get a BB turbo from the Nissan SR20 and it'll bolt right up.



Originally posted by MSPDAVE125
Callaway was very careful to ensure that ONLY the Callaway GT25 would mount our manifold. In fact from furthere inspection, it almost looks like a one piece design. (It's not, but it sure looks like it.)

You'll need a new manifold to accomodate a new turbo.

[MSPDAVE125]

Originally posted by turboboy
This is so NOT TRUE ! The T25 that came with the MSP use a standard rectangle inlet flange and the outlet also uses a standard five bolts pattern. You can get a BB turbo from the Nissan SR20 and it'll bolt right up.

Just curious, yours is/ or has been apart?

You have a PM.

[turboboy]

Yup, I have everything apart to upgrade to a big T28 !

[MSPDAVE125]

Got your PM. I'm still curoius about the flange though. I'd like to see it.

You have my email.

Keep me posted.

[InsidiousMSP]

Not sure why you guys think a T25 is small. It will make more power than our internals can handle.

[EvilMSP]

I was thinking the same thing. I remember readong that the T25 can handle about 16psi before it looses efficiency.

[jred321]

because it is small. granted for our motor it may not be small, but a t25 is a small turbo. just because it can flow 16psi before losing efficiency doesn't mean that it is flowing a lot of air. each turbo at the same pressure will flow a different amount of air, so 16psi on a t25 is far less air than 16psi on a 16g, and a 16g is still a pretty small turbo. that is why people say it is a small turbo.

[InsidiousMSP]

Originally posted by jred321
because it is small. granted for our motor it may not be small, but a t25 is a small turbo. just because it can flow 16psi before losing efficiency doesn't mean that it is flowing a lot of air. each turbo at the same pressure will flow a different amount of air, so 16psi on a t25 is far less air than 16psi on a 16g, and a 16g is still a pretty small turbo. that is why people say it is a small turbo.

If you compare it to other turbos it is small. Just like a T60-1 would be small compared to a T88H. But we're talking about Mazdaspeeds, on a Mazdaspeed forum. Like I said, a T25 will make more power than our block can handle.

[jred321]

for any 2.0l motor, a t25 is small. just because we may have trouble handling the power it can produce doesn't change the size of the turbo. i'm not trying to say it is sized incorrectly for our application, because it is not, but the turbo is small.
our block will have no problem handling the power (it's iron), our rods might though.
this is an enthusiast site, and many people here like to perform modifications to their car, which address the weaknesses that are present in stock form. the turbo is small and should be replaced if you are looking for decent power on a daily driven car, but you are right for our car in stock or relatively stock form the turbo is sized just fine. many people like to go beyond stock though. the turbo is good to about the same levels as stock internals, but stock is no fun anyways, and with a proper fuel system the internals will most likely be able to hold more power than the t25 can produce.

[InsidiousMSP]

Originally posted by jred321
for any 2.0l motor, a t25 is small. just because we may have trouble handling the power it can produce doesn't change the size of the turbo. i'm not trying to say it is sized incorrectly for our application, because it is not, but the turbo is small.
our block will have no problem handling the power (it's iron), our rods might though.

When I say "the block", I mean everything in the short block.


this is an enthusiast site, and many people here like to perform modifications to their car, which address the weaknesses that are present in stock form. the turbo is small and should be replaced if you are looking for decent power on a daily driven car, but you are right for our car in stock or relatively stock form the turbo is sized just fine.

The T25 should be the last part changed in the course of modifying. Intake, downpipe, exhaust, front mount, hard piping, engine management, injectors, boost controller, clutch, etc is far from "relatively stock" and CAN yield 260whp+. If you want more power than that it's time for new pistons & rods.


and with a proper fuel system the internals will most likely be able to hold more power than the t25 can produce.

I'll have to disagree. :)

[jred321]

it's ok to disagree :)
i have my way that i would do things, and i know everyone will have a different way to go about things, none is necessarily right. but at 260whp, you're past the t25's peak efficiency, fine for every once in a while, but i wouldn't push it that much daily driven. but either way, i'm poor and am going to be completely stock until at a minimum next summer, so i'm not gonna worry about it :)

[dj4monie]

I don't agree proper tuning is everything. Piggybacks are more effective than you think.

If I end up getting a Mazdaspeed the first thing to come off is that tiny GT25 turbo. Why would anybody bother with any T series turbo unless they were trying to save money? Also why invest in bolt-ons when I would be re-engineering the whole exhaust from turbo to tip? Buy the bigger turbo, run it at low boost (stock ECU) and build the exhaust ONCE.

There are some custom hybrids using a T2 housing, based on the GT25 hotside. You can get a GT25 based hybrid that will push 400-440hp *(82m trim). GT25/40R is available direct from Garrett and maybe of it's dealer network.

The fuel and block are the least of my worries, its the tranny holding together after all the horror stories I have heard. Like I told somebody else -

Guess I'll have to keep a couple of spares around. Maybe import the Turbo-Diesel tranny from Japan. Because of the diesel's torque it should have no problem holding the power of a highly boosted FSDE.

The GT25 starts whezzing at 225h, you can force it to run high enough to get 250-250hp but it isn't going to like it.

I just about got it all figured out budget-wise anyway. Stock block should do 300hp without blowing up. Not forever, but until I can get some rods and pistons.

Mayne why does the 'speed have to be so HEAVY! (2840lbs)

[soundbombing]

during mazdaspeed development they had a t28 on it. too bad it didn't go into production. just some info for ppl.

[dj4monie]

Originally posted by soundbombing
during mazdaspeed development they had a t28 on it. too bad it didn't go into production. just some info for ppl.

Who did your front mount?

I was looking at using a good Spearco core or doing Air to Water with the intercooler mounted where the stock unit is and heat exchanger out in front. I need to get under the hood of one (might do that today) and see what's going on down there.