Considering 2003.5 Mazdaspeed - Questions

[dj4monie]

I have searched the site and not found what I'm looking for yet, which is serious ET/MPH or power numbers. I have considered moving to a Mazdaspeed Protege.

I have a few questions I would like answered -

1) How is transmission durability?

2) Flyin Miata uses a piggy-back controller and MAP sensor clamp on the P5 kit, is there any other way to control fuel and timing issues? Has anybody tried a Greddy E-Manage yet?

3) Has anybody considered removing the stock intercooler and replace it with a PWR Barrell style Air to Water intercooler? I haven't been close enough to a Protege to measure, but it seems to me a 4x6 unit should fit without any problems in the same area and provide much improved inlet cooling over the piss-poor stocker.

4) Will Garrett GT T-series flange turbo fit in place of the stock unit without modifying the manifold? If I got a Protege I was looking at the Garrett GT25/40R.

5) Are there any "off the shelf" forged steel connecting rods available?

THat's basically all I wanted to know, the rest I can figure out on my own.

Thank You...

[jersey_emt]

1) How is transmission durability?
The transmission is durable enough for light modification. The MSP also includes a stronger clutch than what's used in the regular Protege. However, the tranny is NOT a race tranny, and will not take kindly to abuse.

2) Flyin Miata uses a piggy-back controller and MAP sensor clamp on the P5 kit, is there any other way to control fuel and timing issues? Has anybody tried a Greddy E-Manage yet?
Standalones work. There are people working on Haltech E6X and F10 packages...with all necessary parts and base maps. The E-Manage is also being worked on. There is a piggyback from MPI that works with the MSP, both with the stock fuel injectors and extra injectors for use with higher boost.

3) Has anybody considered removing the stock intercooler and replace it with a PWR Barrell style Air to Water intercooler? I haven't been close enough to a Protege to measure, but it seems to me a 4x6 unit should fit without any problems in the same area and provide much improved inlet cooling over the piss-poor stocker.
The stock unit is better than a lot of people think. But noticable gains can be had with a better unit. I don't think anyone's tried an air/water IC yet. Why don't you try it out if you get the MSP and let us know how it works?

4) Will Garrett GT T-series flange turbo fit in place of the stock unit without modifying the manifold? If I got a Protege I was looking at the Garrett GT25/40R.
I want to say yes, but I'm not sure on this...don't want to give you incorrect info.

5) Are there any "off the shelf" forged steel connecting rods available?
Again, I want to say yes, but I'm not sure. I haven't gotten to the point where I need new rods (according the the Mazda engineers, the stock rods can handle up to 225 HP, but some people have been running above that without problems. But then again, some people have also broken rods at stock HP), so I haven't looked into forged internals yet.

[dj4monie]

Originally posted by jersey_emt
1) How is transmission durability?
The transmission is durable enough for light modification. The MSP also includes a stronger clutch than what's used in the regular Protege. However, the tranny is NOT a race tranny, and will not take kindly to abuse.

That's what I was thinking. With the correct clutch design and if you can prevent wheel hop, you shouldn't have any issues.


2) Flyin Miata uses a piggy-back controller and MAP sensor clamp on the P5 kit, is there any other way to control fuel and timing issues? Has anybody tried a Greddy E-Manage yet?
Standalones work. There are people working on Haltech E6X and F10 packages...with all necessary parts and base maps. The E-Manage is also being worked on. There is a piggyback from MPI that works with the MSP, both with the stock fuel injectors and extra injectors for use with higher boost.

Stand-Alones are more trouble than they are worth in alot of cases. If I wasn't going to use the car every single day, then I would consider it. I much rather work around stock ECU and use a good piggy-back like the E-Manage or SMT-6 (which sounds like the unit MPI is using)


3) Has anybody considered removing the stock intercooler and replace it with a PWR Barrell style Air to Water intercooler? I haven't been close enough to a Protege to measure, but it seems to me a 4x6 unit should fit without any problems in the same area and provide much improved inlet cooling over the piss-poor stocker.
The stock unit is better than a lot of people think. But noticable gains can be had with a better unit. I don't think anyone's tried an air/water IC yet. Why don't you try it out if you get the MSP and let us know how it works?

It your only option if you want to keep the stock look of the front end. Big front mounts are sexy, not sure I wanna use another side mounted I/C either. I've been a fan of A/W for a long long time before it was ever in style to use one on the track or in production cars. For as much as some companies want for a larger FMIC core, you can get a small A/W unit that will flow enough for 400-500hp for under $400. Then all you need is a pump (Ford Lighting pump is made by Bosch), decent sized tank and heat exchanger. All that can be had for less than $800 total.


4) Will Garrett GT T-series flange turbo fit in place of the stock unit without modifying the manifold? If I got a Protege I was looking at the Garrett GT25/40R.
I want to say yes, but I'm not sure on this...don't want to give you incorrect info.

Thanks, I'm not totally sure either. I believe any of the GT25 series turbo use a standard Garrett flange. If that's the case then any GT25 turbo will bolt-on. You can get internal wastegates GT's up to 450hp. If your considering a turbo upgrade DO NOT USE A T series turbo unless you want only decent power and unexpectable lag. Spend a bit more and get a Dual BB GT.


5) Are there any "off the shelf" forged steel connecting rods available?
Again, I want to say yes, but I'm not sure. I haven't gotten to the point where I need new rods (according the the Mazda engineers, the stock rods can handle up to 225 HP, but some people have been running above that without problems. But then again, some people have also broken rods at stock HP), so I haven't looked into forged internals yet.

Pauter makes rods for around $690, which is $90 more than custom made Crowers. Geez, maybe you guys should gang up on Eagle and get them to make some rods. Most Eagles are under $400 for a set and solid over 700hp.

Thanks for replying, I'm trying to put something together for next season and the earlier you can start, the better. Especially when I missed the whole '03 season and just about all '02.

[pdhaudio83]

after dicussion, the MSP MIGHT, just MIGHT have forged rods. we're trying to get to the bottom of that. people i trust say they have multiple good sources saying its true.

I believe the MSP clutch is normal? however, it does have the LSD.

[StuttersC]

Originally posted by dj4monie
2) Flyin Miata uses a piggy-back controller and MAP sensor clamp on the P5 kit, is there any other way to control fuel and timing issues? Has anybody tried a Greddy E-Manage yet?


Um, what? The Flyin' Protege turbo kit uses a voltage clamp on the O2 sensor. That is it. All it helps with is partial throttle on boost situations. No timing control is involved.

There is no piggy back by FP for the their kit, yet. Link is working on a plug and play unit that will work out fuel and timing issues for more boost than the regular turbo kit is ready to handle with AFPR.

The Protege has a MAF, not a MAP.

I believe Terry (aka Spoolin') has been working on getting the E-Manage to work on turbo applications. I'm not sure on his progress.

People seem to like the HalTech E6X for the MSP.

[dj4monie]

Originally posted by StuttersC
Um, what? The Flyin' Protege turbo kit uses a voltage clamp on the O2 sensor. That is it. All it helps with is partial throttle on boost situations. No timing control is involved.

There is no piggy back by FP for the their kit, yet. Link is working on a plug and play unit that will work out fuel and timing issues for more boost than the regular turbo kit is ready to handle with AFPR.

The Protege has a MAF, not a MAP.

I believe Terry (aka Spoolin') has been working on getting the E-Manage to work on turbo applications. I'm not sure on his progress.

People seem to like the HalTech E6X for the MSP.

I know Mazda/Ford cars are MAF (not sure why, outdated thinking). I knew the FM kit used a Voltage clamp (read on the web site) but I guess I missed it being on the o2 sensor. Coming from the Neon world, Hahn uses one to prevent the MAP from seeing 2.5 volts and kicking into limp-home mode.

I think you have to use a combo of what FM did with the ECU on the o2 sensor (clamp) to be able to use a piggy-back. Seems Mazdas (all but the RX-7) are funky to deal with after OBD-II came onboard.

I have a couple of thoughts on piggy-back control.

I like the -

E-Manage and Perfect Power's SMT-6 for options and price. I also like Split Second's FTC. Split Second has excellent understanding of MAF sensors in general. Might have to look in there direction.

Thanks again...

[Striker187]

pdhaudio - forged rods, really? if this is true, i wonder how much hp they'll take?

dj4monie - split second's products work pretty good. try pming chojin. he's using their stuff in the mazdaformance mp3-t.

[StuttersC]

Originally posted by dj4monie
I know Mazda/Ford cars are MAF (not sure why, outdated thinking). I knew the FM kit used a Voltage clamp (read on the web site) but I guess I missed it being on the o2 sensor. Coming from the Neon world, Hahn uses one to prevent the MAP from seeing 2.5 volts and kicking into limp-home mode.

I think you have to use a combo of what FM did with the ECU on the o2 sensor (clamp) to be able to use a piggy-back. Seems Mazdas (all but the RX-7) are funky to deal with after OBD-II came onboard.

I have a couple of thoughts on piggy-back control.

I like the -

E-Manage and Perfect Power's SMT-6 for options and price. I also like Split Second's FTC. Split Second has excellent understanding of MAF sensors in general. Might have to look in there direction.

Thanks again...


Yes, that's actually what they (FM) do it on the newer Miata kits...Use the voltage clamp to deal with closed loop and then the piggy can control open loop.