engine gurus- help please

[pdhaudio83]

hey all- about my engine, here is what one of the dealers wants to do, possibly ripping me off as i live 200 miles away, or maybe it actually needs to be replaced.

dealer only told me i cracked a piston ring.

we wants to replace the pistons (all) and im pretty sure its the pistons because on the esimate its 4 quantity @ $235.40/each.
he wants to get a 'headset' at $213.15
he wants to get a rod bearing at 64.00
i cant read his writing, but i think he wants 14.00 for coolant. it says cool??? so i assume coolant?
something else- COF or LOF or VOF at 26.22 (something coolant flush? who knows)

it says my exhaust valve is stuck open on cylinder #4.

parts 1258.97.
is he kidding me or is there a way that i NEED all this shit?
the car was still running, just oil was coming out of the air intake.

someone shed some light here please. Thanks!

[Rism]

take is somewher else

[pdhaudio83]

i am obvoiusly- its a dealer.... but am looking for anyone to make sense of this without looking at the engine, would this make sense? and how would it make sense.

[mp3moose]

Well, pistons do need to be balanced, but I don't think you need new piston due to a cracked ring. I am not really sure on this though.

Moose

[BlueMP5Dave]

Wow you can get another engine for that. Get another opinion and take it to who bids the least. Wrap the damn engine in plastic pick up the parts and take a tow truck to get the car. I think you can do better than the stealership.

[pdhaudio83]

thats what MY dealer said (they know me personally) and thats what i thought. can a bad ring damage a piston that bad? i know if ONE needs to be replaced, they all do, but in that case, i'll get forged low compression pistons

[pdhaudio83]

yes i realize my options here, i can pay $1500 for a used motor of which i have no history of, or i can get mine in BRAND NEW condition for who knows what amount since this work estimate may be BS.

please- engine gurus, give me what they are talking about for parts. thanks.

[kcbhiw]

Dealers's will always rape you...even if they "personally" know you. A rod bearing for $64?!?! I hope that's for a set (8 total bearings) because a single pair should only be a few bucks.

The "headset" is more than likely the gasket set including the head gasket. $214 is very pricey for that.

Dunno WTF COF, LOF, and VOF are.

Honestly, take it elsewhere. Dealers' markups are horrendous.

[pdhaudio83]

yep. having said that, im wondering what a NEW FS-DE for the MP3 would cost. BRAND NEW, not used. Anyone know?

[Captain KRM P5]

Originally posted by pdhaudio
yep. having said that, im wondering what a NEW FS-DE for the MP3 would cost. BRAND NEW, not used. Anyone know?

engine and labor combined are just shy of $5000. $3000 of that is the engine itself. I was quoted this with an employee discount attached (friends mom manages dealer).

pdh, i'm telling you, search car-part.com for a low mileage FS DE (it can be from ANY 2.0 protege). if i can find a flawless one for $600 than so can you.

[pdhaudio83]

holy fuck, nevermind!! :eek: so that quote is WITH the discount, huh?

[MalkavianMP3]

I would say that with the list of parts given that they are yanking your chain. Truthfully I would have them just replace the one piston and rings for said piston. I doubt that you've damaged the rod bearing. If you had they would have told you to get a rod also. Not to mention the fact that they would have to charge you for an oil pan gasket. B/c there is no way for them to replace the piston or the rod bearing without taking the oil pan off. I have never heard of a piston ring cracking either. They are charging you for the coolant itself and they are charging you to put it in the car(COF=coolant fill). A coolant flush would be about 50 or so. A headset is the head and valve cover gaskets, along with new head bolts. Also, if you exhaust valve was open on Cylinder 4, was it one or both? You should ask that. If you exhaust valve(s) are stuck open, why weren't they bent when the piston went TDC in the cylinder? To fix the one valve alone would be almost a grand alone, considering they'd have to replace the vavle, replace the valve spring, machine the head etc. etc. That dealer is probably using you to order parts for another vehicle they have that needs work. I'd call and complain to Mazda about the dealer. I hope that helped you out a little.

[acidbbg]

Wow..I can't believe all the damages...and the pricing of your dealer...I would invest in a New Engine!

Quick question for ya? When you were runnin nitrous..were you filling up at like shell, mobil..etc..

Or cheap places like hess...raceway..citgo..etc?

Chas

[perfworks]

Go forged and be done with it. If you like your car and would like to see a real performance machine UPGRADE now while it is apart.
We have a few peple ordering forged this week the order goes in on tuesday. The more we get the better the price.
Pm me if your interested.
Otherwise get a new engine. If your going to the trouble to put it back together with gasket sets, bearings, and thrust bearings go forged.

[pdhaudio83]

ive been filling up at good stations (93) bad stations around here are 92, some with 10% ethanol

[pdhaudio83]

perfworks- you know a ton, are they shittin me? i mean, i fricken DROVE the car to the dealer, how bad could it be?! (not to metion i still had 75 lbs compression on the bad cylinder!)

[dan00k]

yeah man the new mp3 engine and labor comes to like 4800...i have had 2 replaced man...sorry to hear bout ur car tho

[Matthew]

Originally posted by acidbbg
Wow..I can't believe all the damages...and the pricing of your dealer...I would invest in a New Engine!

Quick question for ya? When you were runnin nitrous..were you filling up at like shell, mobil..etc..

Or cheap places like hess...raceway..citgo..etc?

Chas

if you think there is a difference between the gas stations youre crazy. i was talking to someone that worked for those corporations and they actually buy each others gas in emergency situations if they have a problem at their plants. so think next time fill up at shell they might have gotten that batch of gas from citgo due to a problem at one of their plants.

[Captain KRM P5]

Originally posted by Matthew
if you think there is a difference between the gas stations youre crazy. i was talking to someone that worked for those corporations and they actually buy each others gas in emergency situations if they have a problem at their plants. so think next time fill up at shell they might have gotten that batch of gas from citgo due to a problem at one of their plants.

when my dad worked for Phillips petroleum (not to far from you Matthew - bartlesville, OK) he said it was very common for a one truck to replenish stations "owned" by different corporations. It's all the same damn gas.

[Installshield 2]

IMO Pdhaudio, everything listed was what IS needed to get the job done correctly...They could disclude some things to make the work cheaper, but your engine will never perform the way it did when new...

It is mostly engine balance...You should never place one new piston in an engine...unless all 4 are removed and can be properly balanced (in most cases they can't, in which case four new ones from an identical source are the only way to go)...If the piston ring is damaged, 90% of the time so is the piston's ring land and crown...obviously the piston with a damaged ring is also damaged itself...thus in need of replacement...To do everything properly all 4 should also be replaced...Also the interior cylinder wall may have been scored, in which case needing a larger bore and honing process to remove it...If one cylinder's bore is increase, the rest need to be also...A new thrust bearing was most likely needed because of the unfriendly stress put into the con rod during the detonation or whatever caused the problem...If this was a dealership, I am suprised they also didn't recommend a brand new connecting rod (which would also require another 3 rods most likely...again for proper balance)...

The fact that your engine still tugged your car around is misleading...you had more than 50% leak down in one of the cylinders...This was causing the oil in your intake, and the oil was not your only problem...one valve assembly was also destroyed by whatever caused the overall problem (my guess is a serious of dastardly detonation)...The fact that you could still limp around didn't justify the condition of your engine...You could have fried a starter and not been able to start the car...but the fact that the car wouldn't start does not mean you would need to expect a fee of $10,000 to get it running again...50% leak down is an extremely "large" problem with an engine in any case...and though your engine was still running when you took the car in, it probably woudn't have been in a few days...

So overall I think this dealership is stressing an excellent fix rather than an inexpensive one...whether you want it done properly ($$$) or not (not as much $$$) is up to you...