WTF is up with my car? More boost=slower car

[CustomMSP]

Damn,

The more boost I set my turbo at the slow the car feels :mad: The most I ever put the boost up was ~10psi and that feels slower than my turbo set at stock boost. For some reason after 4k rpm the car feels like it hits a wall unless I adjust the throttle for something like 10% of WOT. Any ideas.

Thanks

[jaymode]

hesitation? are you flashed? maybe you are hitting fuel cut.

[azian6er]

hesitation man. Im guessing you dont have your car flashed? Get ti flashed it makes a world of difference.

-B

[azian6er]

beat me too it:)

[BlkZoomZoom]

Sounds like fuel cut to me........ It's the ecm telling you to slow down or your gonna break it........ Or you could just buy a fcd....

[CustomMSP]

Nah, guys it's not the fuel cut and I know about the hesitation fix and all, but it feels like just one BIG hesitation if I press the accelerator more than like 40% of WOT in all the gears but first, because that gear is very short and I just prolly don't feel the hesitation in that gear. I'm not flashed but I do have the FPR kit from joe. I also have a SRI. I mean I almost lost to a stock 325 auto in a short race. WTF is that?? :mad: The car just doesn't pull after 4k rpm at all. I have an appointment with mazda for next monday about some random shit including rotor warpage at 5k miles.:eek: Do you think the throttle position sensor has anything to do with the power loss at certain throttle positions? I just don't want to get the flash so I can see if this will solve the above problem and then won't be able to go back if it doesn't. I might just have to brake down and get the flash.

[BlkZoomZoom]

So.....let me get this straight....
-higher than stock boost,
-fpr kit,
Above 40% throttle in any gear above 1st. it hesitates.....
Your positive its not fuel cut......
Does it just lack power or does it buck......
Does it do it at all times or when its cold/hot indifferent......
When did it start doing it.....
Can you tell this is my occupation?

[InsidiousMSP]

If your car is laying down at WOT it could be very serious. Do you have an a/f gauge?

[CustomMSP]

The boost is at stock level right now, so def not a fuel cut which I know how it feels because I've experienced it before. But this happens at stock and higher boost. I don't have an a/f ratio but I know the mixture is way to rich, because for one, when I removed my stock plugs at like 3k miles to put in copper plugs they were black as hell plus my exhaust tip is also black as hell like an exhaust on a vtec engine with 100k miles on it WFT is that? However, the car feel very powerful up to about 4k rpm. This happens mainly after driving on the highway for some time. Also, the hesitation at more than 40% of WOT comes and goes, so that's whats making this a little more difficult to determine. Once the car is in "hesitation" mode, the turbo really quites down and it sounds very faint and high pitched. Also sounds like the engine isn't producing enough exhaust gases to spin the turbo. Like it's running crappy. Plus I've noticed that my coolant is spitting out of the canister by the intake sometimes. I see some dried coolant around that area and on top of the canister as well.

Thanks guys.

[BlkZoomZoom]

How long does the hesitation last? All the way up to redline?

[CustomMSP]

All the way up to redline unless I regulate(start to back off to a certain sweet spot) the throttle and then it will start to pull like a bull but not really gain much speed. That's just prolly torque though because I'm usually crusing at around 3.8k-4.4k rpm where torque is the highest. Can you comment on the sound change of the turbo?

Thanks.

[girth]

You've pretty much described how my car runs more often than not. It's more powerful under 4k and at 2/3 throttle than it is above 4k and WOT. I don't have the "coolant volcano" like you though. I do have the flash so I think it's just the way this car runs.

[BlkZoomZoom]

The only thing I can tell you is I wish I could work on your car cause I love a challenge and I'm a glutton for punishment (I work on VW's and Mazdas).

[CustomMSP]

I'll get back to you on that offer after my warranty expires bro hehe. Guess the open road mazda techs will have something to work on this monday hehe. Sometimes the rpm will climb but no pull with it and then all of the sudden at like 4.2k rpm the turbo will kick in and I'd feel a kick in the ass. But shouldn't the turbo be already spooled by like 3k rpm, especially our tiny turbo?

Damn, all the cars I've had so far had no top end to them. I though this MSP would change all that, but it looks like it's the biggest turtle out of them all. Oh well, we'll see what happends after monday next week.

If anybody else has any other suggestions/ideas/opinions please share. I hope this thread will be somewhat usefull for others.

Thanks, and keep 'em coming!

Girth,

Maybe out turbo isn't running right? My car runs worst at higher boost levels than in does at stock levels. Something is not right here. I have a DP on the way. Maybe it's just the super restrictive exhaust we have.

[CustomMSP]

Anybody think that the problem could come from the colder plugs I have in there right now? Maybe the gap is all fucked up? I did set them to .032" with that round gapper you can for like 5cents. The better gapper I had didn't have a .032" had a .034" though lol. Gonna throw the stockers back in and see. Will want them to be in place for warranty work anyway. Gonna take some pics of my plugs when I take them out. A picture is worth 1000 words as they say :)

[boostidazfuk]

dude....it took me a while also to get this through my thick head but your gonna have to face it.......Get FLASHED and it will go away...I had the same shit going on...

[CustomMSP]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I have good news! I changed my spark plugs back to stock and ran a new vacuum line where my boost gauge was tapped from and left the gauge disconnected. First of all, I think that the vaccum line that goes to the top of the throttle body is not suppost to be tapped into. That's where I had my gauge tapped into and the niddle always bounced at light throttle. So the car is running much better so far and I'm not imagining this shit. No more does the car feel like it hits a wall when at WOT. It actually feels fast now at around 8.5psi I have some pics of stock and copper plugs at about 3k miles each if anybody wants to see. Pretty much they're black as heel for the length of about 3-4 threads starting from the top. I let the car idle for about 10 mins just to get it soaked with heat, and it performed much better than it used to. For some reason it feels like I lost a little bit of low end. But the new found highend makes up for all that! :D

[CustomMSP]

Girth,

What mods do you have? If you have a boost gauge where did you tap the vacuum line?

[girth]

I have ZERO mods right now, mainly because I don't want to mod if it doesn't seem to be running right in stock form. And I have the flash. Looks like my MSP is simply F-ed up beyond repair.:(

There's no way I'm taking it to the dealer because I'm not driving 100 miles just to be told everything is ship shape. And if this is "ship shape" then it is the titanic. The only way my car will ever be straightened out is if I get the chance to drive a stock MSP owned by somebody that claims the flash is a "night and day" difference. Then I could take his car and my car to the dealer and ask him why mine doesn't run like his.

Thanks for showing concern though custom -- I wish it was just as simple as a boost gauge not being installed quite right.:(

[CustomMSP]

Well, maybe tomorrow my car will be back to "normal"...I hope not though. I'll def let you know. Why don't you call them with some of the description I've wrote in this thread that you're having as well. It can't hurt to see what they say. If they tell you we'll have to take a look at it, ask them this...ok you do take a look at it and this is what you discover, how would you go about fixing this problem? You'll prolly won't get a satisfactory answer from them but its worth a try. Also, check all your vacuum hoses for a good seal. They might have some MSPs on the lot that you can test drive.

[girth]

I have to say custom, those are some decent suggestions. I'm not sure why I didn't think about the possibility of flashed MSPs on the lot that they could compare mine to. I just might call them.......but I just know how dealers are and they're going to say "oh, seems perfectly normal to us! Good day.":mad:

[Delivery_Guy]

Custom...I'm no mechanic, but are you sure about the spark plug gap you were running. The manual says .028-.031 and I remember reading somewhere that NGK recommended running smaller gap if you are running higher boost. You might want to try .028 and see how that is, then maybe go smaller. Not sure if there are any negative side effects of running too small a spark plug gap. It might be possible you weren't getting good ignition.

Hopefully someone with better knowledge could chime in here.

[YellowMSP4KP]

Girth, sounds like we have the same car. Mine runs great below 4k, but falls flat above that, especially if I give it more than 1/2 throttle. Every once in a while it will pull well up to redline, but most of the time I short shift it at 4k. I'm not really happy that I paid 20k for a car that has worse driveability than my 68 Datsun pickup I had in high school. What are the options? Mazda had 2 shots at it, fucked up the first one, and made it better with the flash, but it's still not right. I don't want to up the boost or mod it until my warranty is up.

[BigGun22]

could the problems you guys are having be contributed to heat soak????

[CustomMSP]

I don't think the problem is related to heat soak because first of all it's kinda cold out now and secondly this mostly happends on the highway for me after driving for a while, where the engine compartment gets plenty of cold air. After driving on the highway, my filter is kinda cold to the touch. Maybe the people who are noticing this problem are more "intouch" with their cars?? :) Also about the gap...I went with Joe Ps recommendation of .032".

[GREATG]

Boys take a look at this page, it explains a lot about what is happening for part throttle feeling fast.
http://minimopar.net/perf/basics.html

under A K&N filter

since I put a 3 inch exhaust on it pulls like a lion to 7000rpm

[CustomMSP]

Nice theory, but the guys who experience this problem do not have any mods done yet. I have a downpipe on the way and will definately get to test this theory out. I don't think the filter will add that much more air flow in the whole system. Unless, the stock airbox flow:stock exhaust flow ratio is like 2:1 to begin with from the box. On other note, my really is performing better so far. Sorry guys not trying to rub it in hehe.

Thanks.

[igdrasil]

yeah, the mazdaspeeds runs @ 10:1-11:1 A/F ratio with the stock plug, and ECU reflashed. A colder plug will be worse I think.
What grade where your plugs?

[CustomMSP]

I was running one step colder.

[unwrittenLaw]

I have the one-step colder NGK plugs gapped to the specs out of the book and running stock boost for now and my car pulls fine up to redline..also, I got the flash...which improved the power delivery a lot for me..

[CustomMSP]

Why don't you rub it in some more! ;) Damn, my problem is back again! I'm thinking it's the turbo itself that's fucked up. Unless I blew a head gasket or something. But I didn't put the engine under sever conditions for something like that to happen. I'm just going to put everything back to stock and see what happends. And I'm not talking here about the "regular" hesitation that everybody is experiencing. My shit just falls flat on it's face as soon as the throttle is at about 30% or more of WOT. The turbo is building normal boost though, but it sounds like shit doing it as soon as the "hesitation" begins. Also, this happens on and off.

[CustomMSP]

Ok,

Just went to the track and....got a best of 16.2 at something like 89.45 mph!!! WTF is that?? My launch was almost perfect, no wheel spin/bog, 1 or 2 hops and I was off from about 3k rpm and I still got a 2.4xx 60'. My shifts were good except the 1-2 which is a bitch on this car, but that should have taken at most .2 secs from my time. I redlined 3rd gear. Another run I got 16.88 because I missed 2nd gear, which as you can see is also crap! Everything else was pretty much the same as the first run. How the ..... do people get 14 sec 1/4 times here?? By the way I was running ~9psi and it was cold as hell out.

[CustomMSP]

Another update...

As of right now it looks like my whole problem was a user error (bang). I installed the FPR kit on the wrong vacuum line (hand). The kit ended up just bleeding vacuum into the intake pipe as soon as pressure would start to build up in the system. This made the car run like somebody put a cork in my exhaust. I ran outside at 4am to correct this problem and go for a test drive :) It feels better now, but I hope it stays this way this time. Just keeping you all updated.

Thanks.

[igdrasil]

then test it again. Looks like it was a overly rich problem plus a vacuum leak
Same thing happened to me, went to the track @5-9psi my runs were:

17.0s @ 89mph - 5psi run
16.7 @ 89MPH (leaned a bit the fuel) - 7psi run
16.2 @90MPH (leaned it a bit more) - 7psi run
15.1 @93MPH (leaned it more) -9psi run
14.9 @94MPH (leaned a bit more, but still running rich) - 7psi run

[pdhaudio83]

DONT LEAN OUT (Obviously) esp since if you spike!! rather RICH than lean

im sure you all know that.

[igdrasil]

Originally posted by pdhaudio
DONT LEAN OUT (Obviously) esp since if you spike!! rather RICH than lean

im sure you all know that.

heheheh dont worry, I was leaning out a 9:1 A/F mixture. At those levels, the car is not driveable @ high rpms it will be so slow! jajajaj

I got it down to 12:1 on the last run @ 7psi.

On one run, right after my burn out I think the vacuum line that feeds the fmu came loose, so I basically ran the whole 1/4mile, completely LEAN, and I mean, LEAN, something like 16:1+.

It was soooo damn lean, that the temperatures didnt rise because there was not enough fuel to burn, and I did 15.1 anyway.

[CustomMSP]

I got myself a benchmark I can use...my brothers' 3.2tl hehe. We ran on purpose the other night and he was dead even with me through the end of second gear when we stopped. This was before I descovered that the FPR kit was installed incorrectly. Now I have to do another run and see if it made any difference. I should have beaten my brother by a pretty good amount at ~9psi that I was running. Those tls are pretty quick up to the end of second gear, something like 7.5 sec 0-60, but that time is very slow for the MSP at ~9psi.

[lamp3]

can't wait fo rthe next chapter int he saga

[syntrix]

Hello turbo newbies!

First of all, what methods are you using to monitor vitals? IE, watching fuel injector pulse, timing, knock sensor activity, etc etc etc.

I don't see any of you mentioning any of this, rather guessing at problems.

We did a local's MSP tonight, and he thought the mod might have made a diff, but he was wondering where all the power was.

This was only at 9psi.

So without monitoring, it's all guess work as to what's really hapenning. I don't know what the ecu uses, obdii, can, iso, or a combo of the above, but maybe we can try to tap into the sensors and look for some indicators of what's happening.

BTW, his MSP is flashed.

[CustomMSP]

This is some trial and error but mostly guessing yes. Im just trying out a few things here and there killing time until monday when its time for my appointment with my dealer. This way I know exactly what I have to tell them. Im gonna let them get into the detailed side of this.

[Pkay]

See mods below..... my car runs fine up till redline.... very little fuel cut ever (only at redline of course). I'm happy with it.... runs great.... overall cost right at $1100 total.

PS: I can kick the shit out of srt's if its a window to the effectiveness