Michael Moore is a lying bastard

[Kooldino]

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

[PatrickP5]

The 'secret' has been out for quite some time now. It's quite disturbing how many people blindly follow this man on his rampage of lies and deceit. They assume that because he's saying something different from the mainstream media that he's somehow telling some sort of enlightened truth that nobody else is brave enough to speak. The fact is that it's pure BS and he's duping those of lower intelligence into believing their paranoid anti-establishment fears. He's quite the idiot's idiot.


Patrick

[Natey]

What a vulture.
Profiting from misery(chair)

It's just plain ol' Propaganda.

[drumsbeloud]

it's the message that counts kids...but i guess if you're into racism, guns, and extreme capitalism, (to mention a few) then hell yeah, the guy's a fucking moron.

[Naveed74]

now I didnt read the entire page there, however I do disagree with the idea that bowling is fiction. Moore may be manipulating people to his line of thinking however it would seem that all of those statements were made - it is the context that has changed. Media does this all the time and Moore is no different.

I dont think that I have seen anything that says a documentry is supposed to be impartial...

[tonkabui]

perhaps it was a hyperbole to the radical extremes that mainstream media partake resorts to in order to gain viewers. you snip, cut, edit, and reorder things so that the "news" says what you want it to say. or it's a metaphor for how the government manipulates facts in order to "dupe people of lower intelligence" into believing everything the gov't is saying. hmmm? something to think about?

[cbcbd]

Originally posted by drumsbeloud
it's the message that counts kids...but i guess if you're into racism, guns, and extreme capitalism, (to mention a few) then hell yeah, the guy's a fucking moron.

I agree with you.

I found the movie entertaining, but not particularly informative. There were some holes in his logic that I noticed and parts that were waaay over sensitized. It was interesting and I liked some of the topics and ideas discussed in it, but I just took it with a huge grain of salt.

[Heathen23]

Originally posted by cbcbd
I agree with you.

I found the movie entertaining, but not particularly informative. There were some holes in his logic that I noticed and parts that were waaay over sensitized. It was interesting and I liked some of the topics and ideas discussed in it, but I just took it with a huge grain of salt.

That is pretty much the key to all his material. I think you have the right idea.

[Stealth5]

i dont like that guy either. one of my friends thinks he has good political views, but he just follows what asses like moore and others say, just because they say it and its different than what the mainstream says, doesnt mean its true

IF MICHAEL MOORE DOESNT LIKE AMERICA, HE CAN JUST GET THE HELL OUT!

[Stealth5]

this also reminds me of when they made fun of him on SNL, they had someone impersonating him on some political show and asked why he never bathed or changed clothes, he said he showeres about every 2 weeks and every couple days takes a mexican shower, the host asked what it was, he said "its where you stand over the sink and wash your face and arms"

[PhreakV]

its the same idea with blindly following a Pat Roberts or Rush Limbaugh. all sheep are stupid (people that follow leaders like gods while bleeting the whole time). Bowling was shot in a documentary format and was manipulated as all media tends to be, into leading the viewer to a particular point.
the manipulation is shite but it is not exclusive to Mr. Moore, for those who would like to rant against his logical flaws please look at your own ideas and attempt to be introspective about the flaws within your own logic.

[Mike R]

Anybody watch FOX? Or any news braodcast? It's all the same....oversensitized, edited, 90% BS, and ALL of them have a "spin"(Even O'Rielly's no spin zone). Except maybe PBS.

[Heathen23]

Originally posted by Mike R
Anybody watch FOX? Or any news braodcast? It's all the same....oversensitized, edited, 90% BS, and ALL of them have a "spin"(Even O'Rielly's no spin zone). Except maybe PBS.

Understatement of the century. Particularly fox news tells the right exactly what it wants to hear.



IF MICHAEL MOORE DOESNT LIKE AMERICA, HE CAN JUST GET THE HELL OUT!

That's the america we all know and love:rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure a patriot would say "if you don't like it try to change it".

[PhreakV]

Fuck O'Reilly.

[Mike R]

Finally! Some intellegent people. You have NO IDEA how long I've waited to hear someone say that about FOX and O'Rielly......

The pay is decent though.... :D

[Eric-BlackMSP]

Interesting post.

I just find it funny when people like to think of themselves as unique or outside the "norm." Most of the Moore fands I know are like this, they tend to be liberal (no offense) hippies or people who are just anti conservative. They think that wearing old clothes from the 60s or having dreads and being white (it is a religion of Jamica if I'm not mistaken, not a fashion trend) makes them special and unique. The truth of it is they fit into the same mold as a conformie. They are just mindless robots being controlled by another robot. All the goth kids who say they dont fit in, fit in fine with the goths, weird huh? All these so called outcasts (like the children of Columbine) really aren't nothing more then another brick in the wall, it just happens that the wall they belong to is one side of the fence opposite the other walls.

I dunno I just hate it when people think they are special and unique and are snobs about it. (I go to UMASS Amherest, every fucking hippie in this school thinks are they know everything!)

Sorry for the Rant :)

Eric

[Mike R]

I agree Eric, even the outcasts still fit in.....they're outcasts. Heck I was one in HS.

[REMillers]

Exactly when will people learn there is no "norm", it does not exist. What is "norm" in one groups mind is not the same in others.
Which is not to say you can't be yourself but try not to get stuck in changing behaviors you know are wrong simply to stay in that norm. That lies the true problem with groups is that people feel they have to stay in it regardless of what their mind is saying.
:rolleyes: Careless about classification, even more so in that the groups classification constantly changes. Nothing is forever.


Edit:Warning eating and typing at same time, while watching Kill Bill is dangerous to your thought process and spelling skills.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by drumsbeloud
it's the message that counts kids...but i guess if you're into racism, guns, and extreme capitalism, (to mention a few) then hell yeah, the guy's a fucking moron.

Please. If you have to LIE and completely make stuff up to support your stupid views, that's just pitiful.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by Naveed74
now I didnt read the entire page there, however I do disagree with the idea that bowling is fiction. Moore may be manipulating people to his line of thinking however it would seem that all of those statements were made -


Yeah, in the form of 3 words here and there...linked together to make people say whatever Moore wanted them to. So based on your logic, it's ok if we talk on the phone, and i record it, and totally switch words around so that it sounds like you said "I rape little boys"? Seriously dude, get with it.



it is the context that has changed. Media does this all the time and Moore is no different.


The media doesn't do it like HE did.



I dont think that I have seen anything that says a documentry is supposed to be impartial...


By DEFINITION, it IS NOT a documentary.

doc·u·men·ta·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dky-mnt-r)
adj.
Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.


http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=documentary

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by PhreakMP5
its the same idea with blindly following a Pat Roberts or Rush Limbaugh.


I don't know who Pat Roberts is, but I can tell you that from what I've heard of Rush, he didn't make such absurd stretches of the truth. He didn't have to edit video to make it appear as if someoen said something they didn't. His evidence was always intact.



Bowling was shot in a documentary format and was manipulated as all media tends to be, into leading the viewer to a particular point.


Yeah, it was the same basic idea of misleading, but it's 100 times worse than what the media does in general. The media doesn't completely make stuff up. They slant it based on something.



the manipulation is shite but it is not exclusive to Mr. Moore, for those who would like to rant against his logical flaws please look at your own ideas and attempt to be introspective about the flaws within your own logic.

Right. :rolleyes:

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by Mike R
Anybody watch FOX? Or any news braodcast? It's all the same....oversensitized, edited, 90% BS, and ALL of them have a "spin"(Even O'Rielly's no spin zone). Except maybe PBS.

Again, "spin" is one thing, what Moore did is just PLAIN LYING.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by Heathen23
Understatement of the century. Particularly fox news tells the right exactly what it wants to hear.


Erm...the US media is slanted left. That's well documented. Anyone who follows it well, regardless of their politcal views will tell you that.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by Eric-BlackMSP
Interesting post.

I just find it funny when people like to think of themselves as unique or outside the "norm." Most of the Moore fands I know are like this, they tend to be liberal (no offense) hippies or people who are just anti conservative. They think that wearing old clothes from the 60s or having dreads and being white (it is a religion of Jamica if I'm not mistaken, not a fashion trend) makes them special and unique. The truth of it is they fit into the same mold as a conformie. They are just mindless robots being controlled by another robot. All the goth kids who say they dont fit in, fit in fine with the goths, weird huh? All these so called outcasts (like the children of Columbine) really aren't nothing more then another brick in the wall, it just happens that the wall they belong to is one side of the fence opposite the other walls.

I dunno I just hate it when people think they are special and unique and are snobs about it. (I go to UMASS Amherest, every fucking hippie in this school thinks are they know everything!)

Sorry for the Rant :)

Eric

No, your rant is dead on. Most "non conformists" are conforming to non-conformisim. I've seen it 100 times over and questioned some people on their views. When I showed them how ridiculous their views were (such as Anarchy, in one example), they actually thought about it, and made up their own mind for a change.

[PhreakV]

I will agree that the major networks, outside of Fox tend to be slanted to the left. its not hard to admit; democrats (left) tend to appeal to people on a mass scale, they like the human side of humanity. even the right realized it back in the 90s - hence, "compassionate" conservatism.

quote:
Please. If you have to LIE and completely make stuff up to support your stupid views, that's just pitiful.

perhaps the right should try and look at the support of claims made by the administration to go to war in iraq.

P.S. not intended to be a threadjack, but i'm sure the mention of the current war/occupation will draw us even farther away from topic.

BACK TO THE THREAD (for my part):
I think Moore's films, though a strong manipulation is evident, are an interesting way to bring up subjects that America doesn't like to talk about...

[Heathen23]

Originally posted by Kooldino
Erm...the US media is slanted left. That's well documented. Anyone who follows it well, regardless of their politcal views will tell you that.

Flat out wrong. Let me guess...the media told you this? Reading is good place to find out that this is a longstanding fallacy.

In a recent survey 80% of the people who watch fox news believed that the US government has found WOMD in Iraq. The same 80% believe that Saddam played a role in 9/11.

p.s. I would prefer if you don't talk down to me or suggest "I don't follow it well".

[PhreakV]

P.S. to Eric - I appreciate the attempt to play nice with the "no offense" but the rant then proceeds to condescend and ridicule. not part of the outcasts, but I think I'd probably be offended just the same

[PhreakV]

with the number of cable networks that are slanting to the right, it is conceivable that media is becoming more radical to each side in order to gain the attention of viewers.

Fox (and its 12"?" affiliate cable networks) and MSNBC come to mind as prominent media outlets with right-ward views. the Washington Post is unabashedly right-ward. there are various/numerous outlets of right-ward leaning media and in the end its just sad because we as Americans don't get "the" news we get the news that someone else wants us to hear...

[Naveed74]

Kooldino

Thanks for the definition of documentary. If that definition were to be followed for all documentarys then they are all invalid. Every Documentary that I have seen has a slant to it.
You may want to believe that media doesnt manipulate you the way Moore has but I think you are mistaken. You just havent been able to find the evidence that the news is flawed like you have with Moores movie.

Has anyone checked the validity of the data on the website? Just a thought...

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by PhreakMP5
I will agree that the major networks, outside of Fox tend to be slanted to the left. its not hard to admit; democrats (left) tend to appeal to people on a mass scale, they like the human side of humanity. even the right realized it back in the 90s - hence, "compassionate" conservatism.


I can't comment on the Fox thing (I just don't know about their news team, so I'm not going to pretend I do), but I agree w/ the rest.



quote:
Please. If you have to LIE and completely make stuff up to support your stupid views, that's just pitiful.

perhaps the right should try and look at the support of claims made by the administration to go to war in iraq.


Can't say they're not trying. And there is a lot of evidence that they did have WoMD. And it wasn't all "the right"; democrats agreed w/ the war too. Clinton, for example, supported it.



P.S. not intended to be a threadjack, but i'm sure the mention of the current war/occupation will draw us even farther away from topic.


Right, so let's end that right here. If you want, start a thread on that.



BACK TO THE THREAD (for my part):
I think Moore's films, though a strong manipulation is evident, are an interesting way to bring up subjects that America doesn't like to talk about...

That may be true, but he's just going about it the wrong way.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by Heathen23
Flat out wrong. Let me guess...the media told you this? Reading is good place to find out that this is a longstanding fallacy.


Please. Even the most liberal people out there admit it. It's not even debatable.



In a recent survey 80% of the people who watch fox news believed that the US government has found WOMD in Iraq. The same 80% believe that Saddam played a role in 9/11.


Well, as stated above, I won't try to say anything about Fox news, but like I said, the media in general is slanted left.



p.s. I would prefer if you don't talk down to me or suggest "I don't follow it well".

I never talked down to you, but what I said is true...the people who REALLY follow the stuff and know thier stuff will all tell you the same thing.

[Eric-BlackMSP]

I did not want it sound like I was making fun of any one group. I just personally dislike it when these so called outcasts think they are better then another person because they think they are unique. I see it all the time on campus. Hippies poking fun at the views of conversatives and calling them conformie robots. Or converstatives doing the same thing. It is all one big joke. Everyone is a conformie robot. Everyone fits into a mold. Thats all I ment, sorry I came of as poking fun, I just deal with it everyday.

Today's Goal: Find out what mold you fit into and break out of it :)

Eric

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by PhreakMP5
P.S. to Eric - I appreciate the attempt to play nice with the "no offense" but the rant then proceeds to condescend and ridicule. not part of the outcasts, but I think I'd probably be offended just the same

I think he was focusing more on the people who are hippies just as a trend going along with their peers rather than people who truly think for themselves and feel certain ways about things.

That being said, MOST "hippies" I've run into don't think for themselves, or know WTF they are talking about, but their feelings are dictated to them. It seems like you don't fall into that category.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by Naveed74
Kooldino

Thanks for the definition of documentary. If that definition were to be followed for all documentarys then they are all invalid.


That's another debate within itself, but it still doesn't change anything.



Every Documentary that I have seen has a slant to it.


Again, a SLANT is one thing, complete lies are another issue altogether. My point is that even if there are no TRUE documentaries out there (which i'd argue there are SOME) Bowling for Columbine deviates SO far from the definition that it's unmistakable.



You may want to believe that media doesnt manipulate you the way Moore has but I think you are mistaken. You just havent been able to find the evidence that the news is flawed like you have with Moores movie.


Granted, anything could happen, but it's a bit curious that I've never ONCE seen such BS in the general news in my lifetime.



Has anyone checked the validity of the data on the website? Just a thought...

A valid thought...but I think you're being a bit OVER skeptical now.

[jrodhotrod]

Nice thread guys, it's nice to see a debate about something without people flying off the handle and just attacking one another.

First, Michael Moore is a moron, I refuse to have anything to do with him after the comments that he made at the Oscars. I won't be purchasing or viewing anything that he produces.

http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Movies_and_Film/Filmmaking/Directing/Directors/Moore__Michael/Anti_Michael_Moore/

Second, someone mentioned something about numbers in regards to what people think about media bias. Gallup released a poll last week that addressed just that:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr031008.asp

Summary: PRINCETON, NJ -- Forty-five percent of Americans believe the news media in this country are too liberal, while only 14% say the news media are too conservative. These perceptions of liberal inclination have not changed over the last three years. A majority of Americans who describe their political views as conservative perceive liberal leanings in the media, while only about a third of self-described liberals perceive conservative leanings.

According to the poll even 18% of Liberals felt that the news media was too liberal lol

[scott42]

According to the poll even 18% of Liberals felt that the news media was too liberal

(lol)(shrug)

[Esteban Toledo]

Originally posted by Heathen23
Flat out wrong. Let me guess...the media told you this? Reading is good place to find out that this is a longstanding fallacy.

In a recent survey 80% of the people who watch fox news believed that the US government has found WOMD in Iraq. The same 80% believe that Saddam played a role in 9/11.

p.s. I would prefer if you don't talk down to me or suggest "I don't follow it well".


(werd)

[Heathen23]

Originally posted by Kooldino
Please. Even the most liberal people out there admit it. It's not even debatable.

[B]

Well, as stated above, I won't try to say anything about Fox news, but like I said, the media in general is slanted left.

[B]

I never talked down to you, but what I said is true...the people who REALLY follow the stuff and know thier stuff will all tell you the same thing.

Not even debateable? I will disagree with the statement and I will leave it at that. It's not really going to go anywhere attempting to debate something so subjective over the Inet.

As for "people who know their stuff" I disagree. In the past 20 years we have watched the media slowly skew right IMO, and in the past 5 years it has taken a turn for the nazi...err...ummm I mean way right.

If I hear more "if you don't like what your current government is doing then leave" type sentiments or "not supporting your governments every action is unpatriotic" type talk I'm going to scream. Challenging your governments decision's isn't about freedom of speach, it's the very essence of democracy.

Michael Moore bending truths is foolish. That's why I don't follow him closely. What I do like about him is that he has a position, attempts to spread his message, and uses his medium to prevoke change.

*shrug*

I give up on this thread.

[Esteban Toledo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kooldino
[B]I can't comment on the Fox thing (I just don't know about their news team, so I'm not going to pretend I do)

[B]

This should help: http://www.fair.org/extra/0108/fox-main.html

[PhreakV]

thanx for trying heathen

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by jrodhotrod
Nice thread guys, it's nice to see a debate about something without people flying off the handle and just attacking one another.

First, Michael Moore is a moron, I refuse to have anything to do with him after the comments that he made at the Oscars. I won't be purchasing or viewing anything that he produces.

http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Movies_and_Film/Filmmaking/Directing/Directors/Moore__Michael/Anti_Michael_Moore/

Second, someone mentioned something about numbers in regards to what people think about media bias. Gallup released a poll last week that addressed just that:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr031008.asp

Summary: PRINCETON, NJ -- Forty-five percent of Americans believe the news media in this country are too liberal, while only 14% say the news media are too conservative. These perceptions of liberal inclination have not changed over the last three years. A majority of Americans who describe their political views as conservative perceive liberal leanings in the media, while only about a third of self-described liberals perceive conservative leanings.

According to the poll even 18% of Liberals felt that the news media was too liberal lol

Good points

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by Heathen23
Not even debateable? I will disagree with the statement and I will leave it at that. It's not really going to go anywhere attempting to debate something so subjective over the Inet.


Well, if it helps, someone posted a recent study on it in this thread...



As for "people who know their stuff" I disagree. In the past 20 years we have watched the media slowly skew right IMO, and in the past 5 years it has taken a turn for the nazi...err...ummm I mean way right.


WHAT? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.



If I hear more "if you don't like what your current government is doing then leave" type sentiments or "not supporting your governments every action is unpatriotic" type talk I'm going to scream. Challenging your governments decision's isn't about freedom of speach, it's the very essence of democracy.


Agreed. But if you completely hate everything about it, then you should move. I know some socialists (commies), that hate our system. In that extreme case, they're likely better off elsewhere for their own happiness.



Michael Moore bending truths is foolish. That's why I don't follow him closely. What I do like about him is that he has a position, attempts to spread his message, and uses his medium to prevoke change.


Sure. But again, he goes about it all wrong.
[/B][/QUOTE]

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by Esteban Toledo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kooldino
[B]I can't comment on the Fox thing (I just don't know about their news team, so I'm not going to pretend I do)

[B]

This should help: http://www.fair.org/extra/0108/fox-main.html

Interesting.