Best miata year to get? [Archive]

Darin

10-15-2003, 11:23 AM

what are your plans with the car? Leaving it stock? Turbo? I've seen 94 Flyin Miata Turbo II -equipped miatas for $7-10K...complete w/ torsen rear end, etc. That's the route I'd go.

There is a V8 Miata for sale in California, if you have $20K...

If you are looking for a little pep, find a 1.6L miata, and opt for the ultra-frugal GReddy turbo system. It'd be a good way to have a high 14 second power Miata...could probably do it for less than $5000 total (including the price of the car).

I guess we'd need to know your budget to answer.

Pitlab77

10-19-2003, 01:58 PM

94 or 95. Those years have the older 1.8 block and come with a real oil pressure gauge.

chri3

10-23-2003, 03:50 AM

1.6 is the way to go if you want cheap/reliable. The 1.6 came from a 323 turbo, and thus is easy to turbocharge. A GReddy kit can be done for under 2K. They're also lighter, but it's a good idea to throw on 1.8 brakes. the '90's and early '91's had a problem with the crankshafts. Try to find a late '91 or 92-93. Good luck

Captain KRM P5

10-23-2003, 04:48 AM

Flyin Miata says;

Q: I'm thinking of buying a Miata and modifying it. What year would be best?
We recommend looking for a 1994 or 1995. They have the larger 1.8 engine but no OBD-II. This makes the ECU installation easy. The 1.8 cars also have a stronger rear end. The 1994 has a proper oil pressure gauge, so it's probably the pick of the lot.

Captain KRM P5

10-23-2003, 04:50 AM

they also have slightly unkind words about the GReddy kit;

Q: Why is your cheapest kit so much more expensive than the GReddy?
A: Our kits are designed to be both complete and safe. We include ignition controls, high-quality piping, fuel controls and absolutely everything you need to make safe power. By the time a GReddy has been upgraded to make decent safe power, the price is often more than an FM kit. We won't sell a kit that isn't intercooled or that doesn't include acceptable engine management.

they sell numerous upgrades for the GReddy kit on thier website.

Keith@FP

10-23-2003, 10:56 AM

The 1.8 is no more difficult to turbocharge than the 1.6. This is a persistent rumour :) The 1.8 was also used in the turbo 323s outside the US. There's no GReddy for the 1.8 but HKS does make a similar kit - basically just a manifold, turbo, downpipe and an FMU.

Keith

pdhaudio83

10-23-2003, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by Darin
what are your plans with the car? Leaving it stock? Turbo? I've seen 94 Flyin Miata Turbo II -equipped miatas for $7-10K...complete w/ torsen rear end, etc. That's the route I'd go.

There is a V8 Miata for sale in California, if you have $20K...

If you are looking for a little pep, find a 1.6L miata, and opt for the ultra-frugal GReddy turbo system. It'd be a good way to have a high 14 second power Miata...could probably do it for less than $5000 total (including the price of the car).

I guess we'd need to know your budget to answer.

V8?!?!?! HOW THE HELL did they fit that in there!?

Darin

10-23-2003, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by pdhaudio
V8?!?!?! HOW THE HELL did they fit that in there!?

http://www.sussex.ac.uk/Users/markf/miata/

V8 Miatas aren't exactly rare anymore :D

Keith@FP

10-23-2003, 11:36 AM

Captain KRM P5

10-23-2003, 01:51 PM

The 1.8 is no more difficult to turbocharge than the 1.6. This is a persistent rumour

I'm confused - are you saying that the Q&A from FM is erroneous or something else? Ken's miata, the yellow one, that is a 1.6 right?

I am going to start a turbo Miata fund. Currently at whatever I have in my center console. Looks like 82 cents and a bag of Fritos. Hey, Christmas is coming up if you want to wrap Track Dog for me with a bow and send it to Chicago ;)

yeah, okay, santa could never be so kind.

Captain KRM P5

10-23-2003, 01:53 PM

The most common is the Ford 302, usually known as a "Monster Miata". There are a few Rover-based ones. The LT-1 appears to be the latest holy grail. Miataforum.com has an entire forum devoted to engine swaps.

Keith

whats your take on these swaps? wouldn't they destroy the power to weight ratio of the car?

Keith@FP

10-23-2003, 02:00 PM

I WROTE the Q&A on the FM site :) Nowhere does it say that the 1.6 is easier to turbocharge. It does say that the OBD-II computer used in the 1996-97 cars is a problem, but that's unrelated. You'll note the recommendation for 1994-95 cars - those are 1.8s.

Ken's Miata is a 1.6. So is Bill's car. Elvis is a 1.8 (or a 2.0, depending on what we popped in last) and our 1995 is a 1.8 as well.

The swaps have less of an effect on the handling than you might think. Their biggest problem is reliability. We raced against one in the 2002 OTC. Car made a great noise and needed constant work. Since the car takes so well to turbocharging, it almost seems foolish to hack in a V8 for more money.

Keith

Captain KRM P5

10-23-2003, 02:11 PM

I WROTE the Q&A on the FM site Nowhere does it say that the 1.6 is easier to turbocharge

:) lol, no no, thats not quite what I meant. I had from the earlier post that you were debunking the myth the that the 1.6 was HARDER to turbo, but that in the Q&A I thought you were recommending the 1.8 over it. sorry about that!

Keith@FP

10-23-2003, 02:17 PM

I'll simplify. There's no difference in difficulty between the 1.6 and the 1.8. The engines are almost identical internally although the block for the 1.8 is longer. In 1999, the head was redesigned and the ECU and fuel systems changed a fair bit.

Actually, we've got a new ECU for the 1996-97 cars that makes them much easier to turbo than before. Since many states are now testing for OBD-II codes, you would have to reinstall the OEM ECU and injectors for this check.

Keith

CarlM2

10-24-2003, 12:09 PM

I'll add my 2 pennies... I have had a '99 and an '01 Miata up until recently... The '99 was my favorite for styling, reliability, etc. If body style doesn't matter, 1994 or 95 cars are best.... Expect to spend about 5,k on a turbo system.

If you want over 200 rwhp, I'd opt for the 94 over the 99. The compression ratio on the 94 is about 8.9:1 whereas the 99 is 9.5 IIRC. The 01+ Miata's have even higher compression, VVT, and are equal in power to the 99. The seats are more comfy, though.

Depends on your power goals, budget, and styling requirements as to which to recommend. I personally wouldn't own an M1 (pre '99 version) because I don't like the looks. I'm an M2 guy, hence my screen name.

StuttersC

10-25-2003, 12:03 PM

Ok, here's another question.

Are the earlier 91-93 1.6 cars lighter? Do they weigh the same if you put in the 1.8?

I was thinking of getting 91-93 no optioned (except for power steering and LSD) and building up a 1.8 with the FM stroker kit and tossing it in.

Or is it just easier to start with the 94-95 1.8 liter variety?

Or, am I day dreaming to much again?

Darin

10-25-2003, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by StuttersC
Ok, here's another question.

Are the earlier 91-93 1.6 cars lighter? Do they weigh the same if you put in the 1.8?

I was thinking of getting 91-93 no optioned (except for power steering and LSD) and building up a 1.8 with the FM stroker kit and tossing it in.

Or is it just easier to start with the 94-95 1.8 liter variety?

Or, am I day dreaming to much again?

1994 R Package Miata... ;) fwiw, no 93 and older came w/ a 'good' LSD...the Torsens were 94+, IIRC

More info on a swap

http://members.aol.com/solomiata/oneeight.html

Keith@FP

10-25-2003, 11:27 PM

The 1990-97 cars all weigh pretty much the same. No major changes. The 1.8 is not really any heavier than the 1.6, as it's only slightly larger externally. Given the weaker rear end (6" vs 7") on the 1.6, it's best to start with the 1.8 cars. If you want PS, don't bother with an R. Opinions are divided at FM about the desireability of the PS and of the competence of the R suspension.

Keith

StuttersC

10-26-2003, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by Keith@FP
The 1990-97 cars all weigh pretty much the same. No major changes. The 1.8 is not really any heavier than the 1.6, as it's only slightly larger externally. Given the weaker rear end (6" vs 7") on the 1.6, it's best to start with the 1.8 cars. If you want PS, don't bother with an R. Opinions are divided at FM about the desireability of the PS and of the competence of the R suspension.

Keith

Cool, thanks...

Ok, now where is that Auto Trader...;)

Mazdaspeedgirl

11-05-2003, 12:00 PM

I guess you guys know what i am going to say. I Prefer the 10AE to all others for these reasons:

*lightest M2 that had the 6speed available (they blew up 100 lbs in 2001)

*has the Hard Suspension which is the best if you are competing in stock class autocross

*awesome color (though we are still debating what the name of the 10AE blue is :D )

It all depends on what you want to do with the car. :)

Keith@FP

11-05-2003, 12:13 PM

Next time we've got a 10AE in the house, I'll throw it on the scales to see exactly what they do weigh.

The 2000 SE came with a 6-speed. The heavier weight of the 2001s comes from superior bracing under the car which is quite noticeable. Those 2001s with the bracing also got the good suspension as well as an upgraded braking system. I consider them to be a superior car to the 10AE, although they're less blue...

Keith

Mazdaspeedgirl

11-05-2003, 12:45 PM

so I don't have the exact weight, no. But my 01 just did not handle like my 10 AE, even though the 01 had the "superior handling". I already knew about the additional bracing being the culprit for the extra weight and just didn't find it to be justified IN MY OPINION. And i did know that the 2KSE came with the 6 speed as well. My husband wants that car next. BUT the 10AE wins over the 2KSE IN MY OPINION only because I love the blue. I stated in my post that it all depends on the person. There can be no right answer to such a subjective query.

Look, I am not trying to insult your intelligence or anything of the sort. You know more than I do. All I can say is that I am not just a person who is unsupportive of a newer car because i cannot have it. I did own an '01 and she just didn't handle as well as my 10AE. Who knows? Maybe it's just my personal driving style that fits with my 10AE.

Keith@FP

11-05-2003, 01:08 PM

The 2001s do have slightly different handling, true. I'm not sure why. Low-speed oversteer is a bit greater IIRC, although I haven't driven a stock one for some time. The suspensions don't stay on the car very long after they arrive here...

Keith

Mazdaspeedgirl

11-06-2003, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Keith@FP
The 2001s do have slightly different handling, true.

I completely agree on this. That's why she died. Greg rolled her coming in too hot into a turn on a very curvy road. her tail just whipped around. :( :'(

OneFASTmiata

11-11-2003, 06:26 PM

For what its worth, there arent that many MONSTER miata's. They only built 90 or so of them. Monster Miatas are Monster miatas, built by Monster Motorsports/LaForza in Escondido. The cars of lore, featured in magazines and known world wide...V8 miatas are V8 miatas, often piecemilled together in someones backyard, with little skill and no thought to drivetrains, rear ends, suspension, chassis etc.

Monsters were completely reworked and done right, from chassis to rear end.

There are a few "shadetree" home swaps out there built by people who are flying by the seat of their pants and questionable at best in every way shape and form. Scary!

I have a Monster Motorsports miata for sale in the Classifieds here. Its 100% reliable and VERY fast...and it handles well.

Yes, I suppose I have a vested interest, but I'd tell you if they were hunks of junk. "True" Monster Miatas are nice. I also have turbo miatas and they're totally different beasts..both much fun in their own right.

Keith@FP

11-11-2003, 06:32 PM

Like Cobras and "Cobras". Some of the replicas are better cars than the originals, some are scary. There are some good V8 Miatas out there based on commercially available kits that are not true Monsters - and which still have some support from the kit manufacturer :)

Any car with that many modifications needs to be considered on its own merits. Look at the end result instead of the pedigree of the parts.

Keith

OneFASTmiata

11-11-2003, 06:37 PM

Keith I understand that, and I know that a lot of people use Martins kits and Martin answers questions over the phone.

What Im saying is that a lot ( which is a loose term because there arent *that* many out there) arent up to snuff electrically and in general.

JohnB and many others have very nice aftermarket cars. I do look at the end result and you had mentioned that there were reliability issues on some of the swapped cars...which is why I replied.

Im saying that I DO know that the Monster Motorsports cars are very nice and well thought out from front to back. Four Piston Calipers, big brakes, stiffened chassis, machined A arms, etc...instead of a kit parts cradle/wiring harness and a junkyard motor tha you see in lots of cases.

Keith@FP

11-11-2003, 06:43 PM

Ironically, the one we raced against had big brakes with four piston calipers, and their biggest problem on track was brake balance. The engine was a new one (a beauty) and I think it was a Panache car. I don't recall exactly what went wrong with it other than a broken serpentine belt. Just fiddly things from what I saw that took 43 man-hours (I remember that) to fix over the course of a week. But what a great noise. I like V8s :)

Keith

OneFASTmiata

11-11-2003, 06:47 PM

I have a wilwood proportioning valve on mine.

Ive got stainless steel straight pipes...I hope the neighborhood likes the noise V8's make too. ;)

PS, arent you leaving FM? I read that on the powerlist, hows the idea of the east coast FM going?

Cheers
J

Keith@FP

11-11-2003, 06:53 PM

That's Ken leaving, not me. The east coast FM idea was just a fantasy of some people on the list - he's looking for engineering jobs in PA. We do have one of our old techs working in NJ at Dealer Alternative east.

For my V8 fix I have a '66 Caddy with a 429. It makes a burble but not a roar, like a Caddy should. I've got a couple of spare motors as well, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't fit. Still, 480 ft/lbs stock...

Keith

Captain KRM P5

11-12-2003, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by Keith@FP
That's Ken leaving, not me. The east coast FM idea was just a fantasy of some people on the list - he's looking for engineering jobs in PA. We do have one of our old techs working in NJ at Dealer Alternative east.

For my V8 fix I have a '66 Caddy with a 429. It makes a burble but not a roar, like a Caddy should. I've got a couple of spare motors as well, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't fit. Still, 480 ft/lbs stock...

Keith

Wow...what would make Ken want to leave CO? Wish him the best for me. His help, time, advice and general wisdom have proven to be invaluable.

Keith@FP

11-12-2003, 10:53 AM

He's got a 4-year-old son with autism and rural CO just doesn't have the support he needs. It's not a happy decision for him to make but it'll let him be a better dad. I'm certainly going to miss him. We don't know exactly when he'll be leaving as it depends on when he finds a job.

Keith

StuttersC

11-12-2003, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Keith@FP
He's got a 4-year-old son with autism and rural CO just doesn't have the support he needs. It's not a happy decision for him to make but it'll let him be a better dad. I'm certainly going to miss him. We don't know exactly when he'll be leaving as it depends on when he finds a job.

Keith

That sucks that he is leaving, but it's cool that he doing so to put his child and family first...

Hopefully I'll get a chance to come over and say good-bye and good luck to him before he leaves. If not, I'll just drop him a line.

Mazdaspeedgirl

11-13-2003, 12:21 PM

okay, so now is probably a good time to ask. How do I get on this power list. I going to boost my car and can't decide on turbo or supercharger.

Thanks in Advance.

StuttersC

11-13-2003, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Mazdaspeedgirl
okay, so now is probably a good time to ask. How do I get on this power list. I going to boost my car and can't decide on turbo or supercharger.

Thanks in Advance.

Either way, anything from Flyin' Miata will be cool!;)

RAAZ227

11-13-2003, 12:24 PM

Check this guys Miata. TURBO!!!!

TURBO MIATA (http://www.mazdamaniac.com/)

Keith@FP

11-13-2003, 12:25 PM

Miata Power list: http://www.miatapower.net

Might want to look into the reliability of an Aerodyne system before getting too excited.

Keith

OneFASTmiata

11-13-2003, 02:01 PM

Diane, when are you going FI?

Cheers
Jennifer aka Boosted

Captain KRM P5

11-13-2003, 08:10 PM

Mazdaspeedgirl

11-20-2003, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by OneFASTmiata
Diane, when are you going FI?

Cheers
Jennifer aka Boosted

Heyyy Jenn!!

After Greg gets promoted he'll get a nice big fat bonus. It will be shortly after then. :D

I just can't make up my mind: turbo or supercharger. I've been told the M2 1.8s can't handle as much boost as the earlier 1.8s. Grrr....and there is the "supercharging is better for autocross" arguement...

Mazdaspeedgirl

11-20-2003, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Keith@FP
Miata Power list: http://www.miatapower.net

Might want to look into the reliability of an Aerodyne system before getting too excited.

Keith

Roger...checking....

:D

OneFASTmiata

11-20-2003, 01:23 PM

Meh, look at ghetto fabulous.....George and ghetto fab miata have won SM2 in a VERY VERY competative region for 2 years running, and George and Ghetto Fab regularly get FTD ( fastest time of day) for the entire event...a small turbo spools just fine for autocross. :)

Let me know if you need any help.

Jenn

Keith@FP

11-20-2003, 01:25 PM

Dan Pedroza has run SM2 at the Nationals for the past couple of years. Same car, but one year he ran a quick-spooling turbo and the next he ran a relatively low-boost twin screw SC setup. He much prefers the latter. He came in 3rd with the turbo and 4th (in a much more competitive field) with the super.

Keith

Mazdaspeedgirl

11-24-2003, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Keith@FP
Dan Pedroza has run SM2 at the Nationals for the past couple of years. Same car, but one year he ran a quick-spooling turbo and the next he ran a relatively low-boost twin screw SC setup. He much prefers the latter. He came in 3rd with the turbo and 4th (in a much more competitive field) with the super.

Keith

(lol) Oh yah, Dan. I know him from Austin's miata club. Many a fight we have had. :flip:
I was thinking about buying his turbo setup when he sold it for my previous '99.

But I think I have settled on supercharging the 10AE. My husband wants to build a turbo '94 or '95 my-ata.

As soon as we get this crazy move done (transfer for his job) we can begin looking for his miata. (thumb)

Jenn, if we do move to West Virginia I will definatley be coming back to Lou when it comes time for the install. :)