Nitrous MSP?

[Crockett59]

OKay,

I'm new and you guys can flame me if you want but I gotta ask.

Since the MSP comes from the factory with such an RICH program wouldn't it be the perfect candidate for NO2? I mean a 50 -75 Dry shot fed through the New ZEX Air cleaner thing (Forgot the name, can't find the paper work)

Or if you do so you will melt the poor little piston right out of in and have to spend quite a bit of money to try and do it again?

[PHILLY-ORANGE]

Think you put that much in 50 with a turbo it now almost 100 shot it kinda doubles cause the turbo not good I ran NOS in my miata and oh my GOD! its fun but not worth it on a MSP

[Crockett59]

Originally posted by PHILLY-ORANGE
Think you put that much in 50 with a turbo it now almost 100 shot it kinda doubles cause the turbo not good I ran NOS in my miata and oh my GOD! its fun but not worth it on a MSP

What?????:confused: Are you saying that slapping on a Dry 50Shot on a MSP with a CAI would not be worth it? The overly Rich condition could be overcome with a 50-75. I mean true this is not going to help in everyday situations, but it would be fun to blow the doors clean off of unsuspecting cars. It wouls shave a clean .5-8 tenths off the 1/4 mile time If not more.

[PHILLY-ORANGE]

your turbo would get so hot I didnt say it wouldnt be worth it I said your going to need mods and to look into it befor you just find a kit and install it and not know what ur getting your self into I'm pretty sure the amount doubles 50shot with a turbo its around 100shot

[jus10 msp]

hey man the zex kit with the nozzle in the air filter will not work on a turbo car. this is because you would be spraying right into the turbo. the zex wet shoot kit would be the one i would use if i was going to spray a msp but only a 35 shot of no2.

thanks justin

[igdrasil]

I would say:

Upgrade your turbine, get a wetshot not over 50hp.

Cant imagine how fast would the Nitrous shot spool that little turbo up.

[Newf]

I say it again

BOOM!

[jred321]

Originally posted by PHILLY-ORANGE
your turbo would get so hot I didnt say it wouldnt be worth it I said your going to need mods and to look into it befor you just find a kit and install it and not know what ur getting your self into I'm pretty sure the amount doubles 50shot with a turbo its around 100shot
http://www.rendelldesigns.com/pix/english.jpg

[bored132]

if you want no2 on your car you should get an Ntercooler system that sprays no2 or co2 on the intercooler to keep the core temperature low. This would be the safest way

[Sparkz28SS]

heh...it does not double......it may help cool off the charge....but its not going to double the output....anyway....on stock boost I dont think a 50shot would be to hard on it

[Sparkz28SS]

Originally posted by jus10 msp
hey man the zex kit with the nozzle in the air filter will not work on a turbo car. this is because you would be spraying right into the turbo. the zex wet shoot kit would be the one i would use if i was going to spray a msp but only a 35 shot of no2.

thanks justin



uuhhhmmm...thats a dry kit...its ok to spray a dry shot before the turbo.....just not a wet shot

[boostisgood]

NAWWWWWZZZZZ on the msp is something I have been contemplating. As far as how much it can handle, you would seriously need to dyno tune it with full fuel and timing control. Even though it runs rich from the factory, that is to compensate for boost levels up to about 12 psi tops. If you run the stok boost, ans shoot a 50 shot into it, the initial shock of the added power would eventually kill a rod.

You seriously cant just slap turbos, and nos kits on cars, and expect a 12 second Fast and Furious, flame shooting out the exhaust car. I, again, strongly suggest to learn as much as you can about forced induction as possible. You will NOT learn that here, you should search the net, and buy one of the many books regarding this subject. :D

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Sparkz28SS
uuhhhmmm...thats a dry kit...its ok to spray a dry shot before the turbo.....just not a wet shot

I wouldn't spray any shot before the turbo- just put a nozzle in the upper IC pipe and be done. A 50 hp shot would be worth probably about 70-75 hp due to the cooling effect it has on the air charge also. As for spool up- it would be like an on off switch for the turbo :).. I ran a 75 shot on my talon with a 60 trim compressor and it picked up 12 mph and almost a full second in the 1/4. Plus the spool was instant once I hit the button- even with the big turbo :).
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by boostisgood
You seriously cant just slap turbos, and nos kits on cars, and expect a 12 second Fast and Furious, flame shooting out the exhaust car.

No, but if you tune the NAWS timer, you'll go 9's :).
Joe

[boostisgood]

(lol) I love ya joe, in a totally plutonic, forum buddy, type way :D

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by boostisgood
(lol) I love ya joe, in a totally plutonic, forum buddy, type way :D

Lol--- Apparently "Sparkz28SS" doesn't :)
http://www.msprotege.com/vbb225/showthread.php?threadid=34296&goto=newpost


Joe

[boostisgood]

Yeah Joe, I totally understand your frustration with some people here. It gets kinda sad and repeptitive with some of the asstards, and what thier idea of tuning is.

To eah thier own I say. :D

[Crockett59]

Hey I wanted answers, and I got them. :D

I would figure that if you shot it before the turbo you would give it a cooling affect which would in turn lean out the A/f Mixture, then by adding the extra Oxygen into the mix it would lean it out to a safe level. Then again this should be DYNO tested of course.

I was told that if you have a SuperCharger ( I DO) You shouldn't run Nitrous. But people still do!!!! The FASTEST GEN2 Lightning runs off of Nitrous express.

The Nitrous Express N-Ter cooler is a cool product, but not worth the money that they want for it. You can go to a swap meet and get a used Nitrous bottle, Nitrous solenoids, some braided lines, and some copper tubing and make your own for about $150

[Apexi]

Originally posted by newf
I say it again

BOOM!

hes right...i read somewhere the stock rods are only good for 225...i dont remember f that was crank or wheel..but nitrous would definetly bring you close to that if not over it, depending on the size shot

[boostisgood]

There has be no extensive, or at least released, data released, telling us what the stock internals can handle.

I can say this, its all in the tuning of the car. Crockett, that truck your referring to, is a well tuned machine, with full stand alone managment. That is why they run both a SC and nitrous.

Look at many of the Compact drag cars out there. They run Methonol fed engines, with big ass trubos and Nitrous. They can do this, becuase of full controll of timing and fuel delivery. Its not bout slapping the stuff on and running it. I cannot stress this enough, its tuning tuning tuning, and tuning with a stand alone.

[acidbbg]

Guys..About runnin nitrous shot before the turbo...NOt a good Idea..Think of it this way...Extremely hot turbo..meets..below zero gas..

I would think the turbo would crack..due to the drastic change in temperature!

If ya wanna do it right..Get a 35 shot before the throttle body...Wet Shot ofcourse!

And the engine should definetly be able to hold down a small shot like that!

Chas

[Apexi]

people use nitrous before the turbo all the time, usually not in small applications like the t25, its usually used to speed up the spool in big laggy turbos

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Apexi
people use nitrous before the turbo all the time, usually not in small applications like the t25, its usually used to speed up the spool in big laggy turbos

Before the turbo? I can't see that being good for the impeller blades- even though it is a gas, it is pretty dense and has to erode them. Not as bad as if you were to spray water injection ito the turbo (OUCH!!!) but can't be too good for it either.. The faster spool comes from the motor becoming more "effecient" while sprayed and moving more air. It is not the nitrous itself going through the cold side that spools it faster.
Joe

[twiztedjeckel]

the Rotary Performance drag/street legal RX-7 runs a T-78 and a 50 shot to spool it. she's doin fine with it and running 9's in the quarter(bowdown) (bowdown)

[Apexi]

*my mistake, after the turbo

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by twiztedjeckel
the Rotary Performance drag/street legal RX-7 runs a T-78 and a 50 shot to spool it. she's doin fine with it and running 9's in the quarter(bowdown) (bowdown)

Yes, but I don't think the shot goes "into" the turbo. I don't know anyone that does that.. When they say they are using it to spool the turbo, that just means they are using a small shot and only hitting it down low to get the turbo going, after that they release the button- or so they say :).. When I had my Talon, I said I used a 50 shot to spool the turbo and that's it. I did, but then I hit the 125 shot for the rest of the run :) :) :)..
Joe

[twiztedjeckel]

so what your saying was your talon wasn't that fast?:rolleyes: ;)

[Tommy1005]

So, if I backed off my MBC to 7psi and threw a 35-50 shot on it, I would get faster spool, more horsepower than the 10psi I'm at now, a great cooling effect (thus negating our POS intercooler), and shouldn't blow my motor. I'm calling a friend of mine who just took his kit off his Mustang and I'm gonna try to put it in in the next couple of weeks. We'll see how it goes. Oh yeah, those 2nd gen Lightning DO NOT run stand alone. You can run a 150hp shot w/ +6lbs of boost on a Lightning with a Diablo chip in the stock computer. Just thought I'd clear that up.

[low_psi]

um, yea RP has their shit together. my friend and his dad got their project FD tuned there, and not only are the guys nice as hell, they're also tuning gods when it comes turbos and rotories.

-most of the guys in houston that drag their lightnings are spraying... i dunno what kits, but they haul ass.

a fast dsm? i doubt it :)

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by twiztedjeckel
so what your saying was your talon wasn't that fast?:rolleyes: ;)

Lol... You tell me- stock turbo and a 75 shot went 11.9@116, my 60trim @23 psi, FMIC, VPC, 3" exhaust and a 125 shot... :D.. Never took that combo to the track though, but I took out a bunch of mid 11 second cars on the street :). Then I sold that one and built another one with the same turbo, exhaust, etc but ran a haltech and no spray- that is the one that did 487 to the wheels. The bottle car was faster though and much more streetable with a VPC over a Haltech..
Joe

[acidbbg]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
Before the turbo? I can't see that being good for the impeller blades- even though it is a gas, it is pretty dense and has to erode them. Not as bad as if you were to spray water injection ito the turbo (OUCH!!!) but can't be too good for it either.. The faster spool comes from the motor becoming more "effecient" while sprayed and moving more air. It is not the nitrous itself going through the cold side that spools it faster.
Joe

Thank You Joe...There is so much F8cken bad info flying around by people who don't know what they are talking about!!

As joe had mentioned..the idea of spoolin up the turbo is not shooting nitrous into the turbo..but rather using the nitrous directly through the throttle body to give the car better pickup..which is especailly good when you have a guy runnin a t3/t4 huge ass turbo..that takes allot more time to spool up compared to the mazdaspeeds t25 ball bearing turbo...

Nitrous does the samething in a sense as a turbo..creates more air for combustion..

A tubo forces more air..nitrous creates the air!!

Chas:D

[Crockett59]

Originally posted by acidbbg
A tubo forces more air..nitrous creates the air!!:D

That is about the best I have every seen anyone put that.

[FrozenMazda]

I know Venom makes a kit that I was looking at for my MX-6, but was wondering if it would work for the MSP. (shrug) After the flash, I'm still having a little hesitation if I accelerate from 2nd gear (1st is too quick to notice). With the Venom system, you could program where the nitrous would turn on and off so you could run it on the low end and then shut it off when you're in the boost RPM's for the turbo.

If all you're looking for is quicker spool, would that be a possible solution?

Also, has anybody tried the NOSzle system on their vehicle and if so, how do you like it?

-Roach

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by FrozenMazda
I know Venom makes a kit that I was looking at for my MX-6, but was wondering if it would work for the MSP. (shrug) After the flash, I'm still having a little hesitation if I accelerate from 2nd gear (1st is too quick to notice). With the Venom system, you could program where the nitrous would turn on and off so you could run it on the low end and then shut it off when you're in the boost RPM's for the turbo.

If all you're looking for is quicker spool, would that be a possible solution?

Also, has anybody tried the NOSzle system on their vehicle and if so, how do you like it?

-Roach

Lol- quicker spool out of a T25 :0.. Drive a car with a real turbo on it and the T25 would feel like it has the bottom end grunt of a big block :)...
Joe

****Disclaimer (since one is needed around here)- I am not making fun of you, bashing you, or belittling you in any way shape or form- written, expressed or implied. I am just making a point :)..****

[FrozenMazda]

(lol) Whah!!!!! I JUST GOT (flame2) !!! J/K (rofl) No need for a disclaimer here. My skin isn't paper thin. ;) This is my first turbo car and I will admit that I don't know much about it. Maybe I should have stated it as: "instead of a quicker spool, could you use this to cut out possible turbo lag?"

I also see that people are talking about the nitrous as a possible answer to our rich A/F ratio issue. If it's injected dry at the filter (as said in the first post), would the MAF see that and add more fuel? :confused:

Would it be more beneficial to inject after the MAF so there is "more air" going in than what the MAF senses?

[twiztedjeckel]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
Lol... You tell me- stock turbo and a 75 shot went 11.9@116

i was just bustin your ass man. i figured we needed a little laughter in this thread.

my buddy from Rochester has a similar turbo on his talon. FPT green or something like that? don't remember the specs but i think it was pretty close to a 60-1.

and yes,these turbo could be used in a series to spool a larger turbo if you really want to make them sound like the pea shooters they are. the boost comes on so quickly and effortlessly its not even funny. i like riding in my buddies talon because you know that is one seriously boosted bitch running at 19psi. that thing spools and BAM! have fun pulling yourself off the back of the seat after that:D

[Crockett59]

OKay, this is my first experience with a turbo car too. I have been into the Supercharged 5.4 scene for about 2 years. I run about 11 PSI in my HD, and I see 14.0's at the track. For a 5700 lb 4 door pickup, I would say that is good.

So what the Heck do I have to do to this MSP to make it SCARY fast at the track?:D

[jred321]

Originally posted by Crockett59
So what the Heck do I have to do to this MSP to make it SCARY fast at the track?:D
a whole hell of a lot

[Crockett59]

Originally posted by jred321
a whole hell of a lot

That sucks!!!!! I talked her into this car cause it had a turbo. Then I find out that it is a little wimpy turbo that produces a tiny bit of boost, followed by an engine that can only hold about 250 hp, followed by a lite duty transmisson. :wtf:

Oh well. I'll get it a little faster, then I guess she (me) will have to deal with it.:(

[jred321]

well if you consider 14.0 scary fast, then that won't be super hard. 13's will be more expensive. getting 12's will take a lot of money though, and i don't consider that scary fast or even close to it.

[igdrasil]

12s in a protege is scary fast. This engine is not meant to be that fast, the whole car is not meant for that much power.

14.0 is good enough

13s is a lot of power....on stock internals, is in the edge of an engine failure.

[jred321]

scary fast is scary fast, no matter what car it is in. 12's isn't scary fast. it's fast, but i wouldn't be scared of a car that runs 12's :) by the time you get to 12's, it won't be just a protege any more, it will have been rebuilt to more or less an entire custom engine, so what it happens to be sitting in isn't a big thing.

[Crockett59]

I should rephrase to...... Scary fast for a Protege. :D

Scary fast is a 99 mustang with a turbo the size of a soccer ball, with more roll cage then I have seen in nascar, using EVERY inch of there side of the race track, getting in and out of the throttle 5 times going down the track and still run in the 7's. Guy came back and literally KISSED the ground. That was scary fast.

[FrozenMazda]

If all that was done is a built engine to make the MSP a 12sec. car, I'd be scared shitless. The body wasn't designed for that kind of power, neither was the tranny, diff, axles, suspension, and... more importantly... BRAKES!!!:eek:

With all the mods and custom work that needs to be done to this car to make it a stable 12sec. car, it would have been cheaper to find a '64 Chevy II Nova and make your own drag car. Besides, Chevy isn't like Mazda. There's a lot more aftermarket options to customize the ride (plus a lot of them in junkyards to find parts on the cheap).

[acidbbg]

Originally posted by FrozenMazda
I know Venom makes a kit that I was looking at for my MX-6, but was wondering if it would work for the MSP. (shrug) After the flash, I'm still having a little hesitation if I accelerate from 2nd gear (1st is too quick to notice). With the Venom system, you could program where the nitrous would turn on and off so you could run it on the low end and then shut it off when you're in the boost RPM's for the turbo.

If all you're looking for is quicker spool, would that be a possible solution?

Also, has anybody tried the NOSzle system on their vehicle and if so, how do you like it?

-Roach

I have a shark nozzle..w/ my NX kit...It's basically the same..nx came first..then nos copy'd it!

I wouldn't suggest going w/ a Dry kit like venom..I have heard of many protege's biteing the dust from a dry kit!

W/ a wet kit..you can have it shut off at certain rpm's..It's called a window switch..cost anywhere from 70-100 usd!!

Ohh..And about scary fast...Well..To me for a protege to be scary fast..must be faster than 14's in the 1/4 mile!!

Crockette-

Get a larger turbo..If ya want that big HP...Like a t3 or even a t3/t4 w/ a small shot from the bottle! I am sure you'll get past 14's..but ofcourse..the engine might not hold that kind of power!

Chas

[slug420]

if I have a heat shield on a SRI......would it be fairly safe for me to have nitrous spray into the heat shielded area (but not directly into the intake) and then also onto the IC? I would imagine so since at the very worst its just like your engine is taking in middle of winter air......evne if it happens to be summer....

how does nos work? do you just buy a bottle, and a kit and rig it up to spray wherever u want? or do they have special kits for spraying ICs and whatnot versus direct injection?

[Sparkz28SS]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
Lol--- Apparently "Sparkz28SS" doesn't :)
http://www.msprotege.com/vbb225/showthread.php?threadid=34296&goto=newpost


Joe



nah......its not that...I just think you need to give your soapbox a rest....

[acidbbg]

Originally posted by slug420
if I have a heat shield on a SRI......would it be fairly safe for me to have nitrous spray into the heat shielded area (but not directly into the intake) and then also onto the IC? I would imagine so since at the very worst its just like your engine is taking in middle of winter air......evne if it happens to be summer....

how does nos work? do you just buy a bottle, and a kit and rig it up to spray wherever u want? or do they have special kits for spraying ICs and whatnot versus direct injection?

well..nos means..Nitrous Oxide System..

I think you mean how does nitrous work...
check out this link http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question259.htm

Well..basically for intercooler..you just want to shoot directly onto the intercooler itself...by means of a dry kit conversion..

When you want to go w/ a direct shot (NOT PORT)..you want to mix the nitrous w/ fuel give a better mixture to the car and shooting it directly into the throttle body..to make sure it's not wasted on the walls of the intake...also it protects ya..from the infamous..lean problem!

Chas:cool:

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Sparkz28SS
nah......its not that...I just think you need to give your soapbox a rest....

Umm, ok... :rolleyes: Just because you didn't like to be proven wrong on a subject that I have about 10 years experience in does not put me on a soapbox.. I just can't stand mis-information on message boards- and there is a LOT of it going on here.. Read my #'s then compare them to others and tell me I don't have a right to preach right or wrong when it comes to what I know best :). I have always been the type that is I am unsure about something or just flat out don't know- I will listen to others and figure it out from there- but if I do know- don't argue with me- my fiancee can vouch for that :). I just try to pass what I have learned over the years on so that others don't go through all the same trial and error BS I did.. Hell, my first "boost controller" was a brake bleeder in a pipe tee on an 88 turbo coupe, my second was an aquarium bleeder valve mounted INSIDE the car via about 11' of hose- trust me, I have been there and done that and learned a lot in doing so- that is why I said a "controlled boost leak" was the worst way to adjust boost.. No biggie either way.. To each his own...
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Sparkz28SS
nah......its not that...I just think you need to give your soapbox a rest....


Hey- what does your 94 Z run? What kind of traps? I just noticed that you had one. We may have talked about them before, but I don't remember for sure :).. I have a 94 that ran 11.1@126 with a 1.86 60' and a 150 shot on a VERY mild stroker motor. I will probably be re-camming it this winter and puting a better set of heads, larger throttle body, etc on it. I want the car back in the low 11's, high 10's on the motor again.. It is nice being 100% streetable, but as always, it is not fast enough- especially when it used to be faster :).
Joe

[I-Am-Chris]

Originally posted by twiztedjeckel
the Rotary Performance drag/street legal RX-7 runs a T-78 and a 50 shot to spool it. she's doin fine with it and running 9's in the quarter(bowdown) (bowdown)

yeah its also a wet kit.