MSP Piping Question

[EvilMSP]

I have read many posts about the CAI's and the Hard Pipe Kits but I just realized something today that I didn't find in a search.

/members/Wilsman00/question.jpg

This is a picture from Spool after the FMIC and CAI. But what about the pipes indicated in the arrows? Does someone make a replacement for these pipes?

Also is there a better way to make the intake? Every company I have seen with CAI looks the same. But to me it seems like a very long path for the air to take before it gets to the turbo. Is there a way of going from the CAI under the return pipe from the intercooler? Or do you absolutely have to go up and around as it already does?

[Torco-MSP]

one word,
one company,
INJEN....

[Notorious]

Spool doesn't replace all of the plastic piping. Injen replaces all of it.

[EvilMSP]

So the Ingen CAI replaces all of those?

Is there actually an improvement in performance if all the pipes are upgraded?

[Black Majik MSP]

Originally posted by Torco-MSP
one word,
one company,
INJEN....

Yeah, that reply was really helpful :rolleyes:

Check out the Billet Desings SRI:

http://www.protegemp3.com/vbb230/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26461

There is a lot of debate over whether CAI or SRI is better, but at least it's another alternative for you to consider.

[EvilMSP]

Thanks for the new input. But will that Billet designs one conflict with future upgrades like a FMIC? Or does it have enough room to pass below the return piping?

Also do all CAI's drop down infront of the wheel well like the Spool?

[boostisgood]

That is what a CAI does, it puts the filter outside the engine bay. It goes intothe fender, but not into the wheel well.

a SRI benefits a higher psi boosted car, then a CAI does. Reason being, your turbo is pulling more air faster, and the SRI gets it there faster. :D

[EvilMSP]

Originally posted by boostisgood
That is what a CAI does, it puts the filter outside the engine bay. It goes intothe fender, but not into the wheel well.

a SRI benefits a higher psi boosted car, then a CAI does. Reason being, your turbo is pulling more air faster, and the SRI gets it there faster. :D

Could you combine the two? Have the short ram pipe with a CAI on the end? It would still be less pipe than the picture. Or would that bend just be to radical and defeat the point?

[boostisgood]

You could take the pipe from the MAF to the fender off, on the Injen. and add a shorter pipe then the filter. To create an SRI, but why go through all that hassle ?

[spoolinmp3]

Well there are a few issues when installing and running a CAI. Injens replaces all the piping from the turbo foward. We utililize the plastic piping from the turbo to the MAF. Gains are minimal by replacing all the plumbing but the biggest concern is that when you replace the turbo/maf pipe you affect the MAF placement.If it is not placed in the exact location as the stocker you are affecting a very sensitive sensor that will affect driveability and you may encounter serious idle issues. You do not have to worry about this with our CAI

[KyRaceFan]

Wilsman, im glad youre asking questions, but in the future, use the SEARCH tool. These questions have ALL been answered before, many many times, and there are already alot of good threads about what you are asking.

Also, the placement of the MAF shouldnt affect the car idling. It measueres the ammount of air being sucked in. Thats not going to change 2 inches from the turbo, or 2 feet.
That being the case, spool's "cai" seems to be overpriced. 175 to relocate the filter? injens does the same thing, and replaces ALL the piping for 200-225.
but thats my opinion..if you go hard pipes, go all the way.
Or you could have it custom made like me and probably save alot of money..

[jonnydoe48]

if everyone used the search tool there would be nothing to read. nuff said.

[Striker187]

wilsman - i have the injen cai, no idle problems here. i say go injen for the cai. though hard pipes, i really like spool's setup and the whole not having to cut any part of the bumper :)

[EvilMSP]

Originally posted by Striker187
wilsman - i have the injen cai, no idle problems here. i say go injen for the cai. though hard pipes, i really like spool's setup and the whole not having to cut any part of the bumper :)

Sounds good, thanks for the info. I am planning on buying in like 1-2 months so I have some time to think. Basically my decision would be to buy the Injen CAI to get all hard pipes. UNLESS the finally get that Short Pipe and cold air box working and for sale (common Bullet guys :) ). That just seems like a cool solution to me, but who knows if that will be offered in time.

I personally was thinking the shorter the pipe the better (ie ram instead of long CAI) but it sounds like that really isn't an issue. And if it is will someone please tell me, lol.

[pluto316]

Why tell you when I can bitch and tell you to use the search button!



(Actually I don't really know. I always thought shorter was better for turbo, but that could be one of those myths people pass around.)

[subaruwrx]

Lomnger is typiclly better. IT allows for the air to smooth out and chill...

I dont know I am talking out of my ass...

I know there is no proof, but I saw dyno of Longer CAI and short CAI on a WRX. Same pipes, same filter. The longer was like 2-3 hp more.
--A

[boostisgood]

Originally posted by subaruwrx
Lomnger is typiclly better. IT allows for the air to smooth out and chill...

I dont know I am talking out of my ass...

I know there is no proof, but I saw dyno of Longer CAI and short CAI on a WRX. Same pipes, same filter. The longer was like 2-3 hp more.
--A

No, not always. First, the REAL reason the factory piping is so long, is for the Torque it will produce, by smothing out the airflow.

When you shorten that pipe, you will, typically, lower your Torque curve, (which I have seen on MANY a DYNO sheet, to include mine. :D ) but the HP will either stay the same or gain a few.

Whereas, with the CAI,(longer piping) you will gain more low end torque, but will sacrafice top end HP.

It is typically up to the type of car you are building. If its a short track AutoX car. then the CAI is the way to go. If its a drag car, SRI is the way to go. :D

[EvilMSP]

Ahhh very interesting...good point. Hmmmm.......

With every post my decision gets more and more complicated :) , but it is more fun this way.

[boostisgood]

In the case of the MSP, if your running 10 psi or less, I would suggest the Injen. IF you plan on running 11 psi or more, DAILY, then I would suggest a nice, Dyno proven, hand built, SRI. :D

[EvilMSP]

Personally I think the all hard pipe CAI looks super tight.

But if I get that I'll have to take out my fog lights to give them some awsome air flow.

If I do this should I leave the bay open? Or protect it somehow with a little grill...? Any ideas? Anyone do this themselves yet?

[oliver2000]

does the injen fit with the spool hard pipes ? does anyone know...looks a little tight

[RXMmazdaspeed]

thats exactly what i was wondering, i am interested in the spool hard pipes but idk if it is compatible with the injen cai.

[oliver2000]

I emailed spool about the pipes....did not ask about the injen thou....maybe someone will chime in on this.

The setup I want is

Hard pipes to replace the intercooler pipes only, a FMIC is not in the picture at this time nor is a aftermarket BOV. The FMIC is nice but for my daily driving the stock intercooler is fine and I do not want to deal with radiator or other cooling issues.

A injen CAI to go with these pipes, this way I have all the plastic pipes gone, injen comes with a equiv to a K&N cone and I am not sure what the others have, I have a Injen on the MP3 and am happy with it.

[ARunto]

Originally posted by oliver2000
does the injen fit with the spool hard pipes ? does anyone know...looks a little tight

the injen intake works with the spool hardpipes. i'll post pictures later.

-Alan

[oliver2000]

Thank you in advance !

[ARunto]

one recommendation I will say is to get a set of t-bolt clamps if you get the hard pipe kit.

[YuYuRena]

Originally posted by subaruwrx
Lomnger is typiclly better. IT allows for the air to smooth out and chill...

I dont know I am talking out of my ass...

I know there is no proof, but I saw dyno of Longer CAI and short CAI on a WRX. Same pipes, same filter. The longer was like 2-3 hp more.
--A

Not necessarily. Longer pipe will also cause pressure drop due to friction on the wall of the cylinder i.e. Fanno Flow. And you're not talking out of your @$$. :D

[oliver2000]

Originally posted by ARunto
the injen intake works with the spool hardpipes. i'll post pictures later.

-Alan

I never did hear back from spool on my hard pipe question...maybe I am impatient expecting a response in 24 hours....

[Flat Black]

Its works, you just have to let them know ahead of time that you have the INJEN CAI.

[ARunto]

Flat is correct if you let them know that you have a injen they can set it up so you can use the stock BPV.

-Alan