went to check this car out today...

[cheesewood]

hey everyone, let me just start off by saying that I'm new here, and I'm in need of a bit of advice.

I've been thinking about a new car for a while, and now I'm stuck between a MSP, or a Mazda6. Essentially, it all comes down to the test drive as far as which one I'll get.

Now, I went in today, and talked to this guy I spoke to over the phone. First of all, he said that he couldn't let me take the M6 out on the road because it was a saturday, and he wouldn't let me test drive the MSP even around the lot because it was the last one they had.

He was cool about it, and I think it was more the dealership's fault then his, but the thing is, when I mentioned the MSP, he said that it had problems after a little while, with the check engine light and other misc. crap. I would've believed him, except he also told me that the 6 handles better then the Mazdaspeed, which I know for a face is false.

So I guess the question is, does it really have problems that frequently, or was this guy just trying to push the 6 on me?

[03Speed]

do a search on "hesitation"

[jonnydoe48]

hesitation is exaggerated on this forum. dont let it be the sole reason you wont buy the car.


just because of the forum, new people think the hesitation is "dangerous" and "a major problem"

[cheesewood]

Originally posted by jonnydoe48
hesitation is exaggerated on this forum. dont let it be the sole reason you wont buy the car.


just because of the forum, new people think the hesitation is "dangerous" and "a major problem"

well, I searched, and I found a lot of people complaining about it, but I couldn't find what it was

any insight as to that?

[jonnydoe48]

around 4k-5k rpm, there is a split second where there is no acceleration and a drop in a few hp, but after 5k it runs fine and stuff. it all happens because the car runs too rich, but a fix is supposedly coming out soon (official)

[yashooa]

I went in for a 6S 5-SPEED and bought the MSP.
After attending Mazda's all day Rev It Up event and getting to rag out modified 6S's all day long I would have to say the MSP kicks its ass in every single category performance wise.
The six felt slow and lethargic compared to the MSP and this was before I put 12 PSI of boost on my MSP.
So in short I am very glad I did not buy the 6S. I personally feel the MSP is far more satisfying to drive. Oh and the MSP cost less to. :D
I have had ZERO problems with mine at 15600 miles since MARCH! Including 2 1400 miles round trip drives at 12 PSI while getting roughly 36 MPG. Yes, I drive like a grandma when I want to get good milage.
I do get a slight bit of Hesitation but it is very infrequent and it only happens under certain conditions. I want a piggy back to get rid of the governor anyway and supposedly Mazda has a new flash for the ECU. We shall see but on any account I love my MSP.
The 6s is more a "full figured" kind of ride compared to an MSP.
The 6 is a great car but just not as razor edge feel as the MSP.
Save some dough buy an MSP now with all the encentives and get a better car for less scratch.

[cheesewood]

Originally posted by jonnydoe48
around 4k-5k rpm, there is a split second where there is no acceleration and a drop in a few hp, but after 5k it runs fine and stuff. it all happens because the car runs too rich, but a fix is supposedly coming out soon (official)

I haven't test driven the car yet, but I would imagine that with a turbocharged engine, 4-5k is a pretty crappy place to lose acceleration. It sounds pretty bad, but at least now I know what to check for when I test drive the car.

thanks!

[cheesewood]

Originally posted by yashooa
I do get a slight bit of Hesitation but it is very infrequent and it only happens under certain conditions. I want a piggy back to get rid of the governor anyway and supposedly Mazda has a new flash for the ECU. We shall see but on any account I love my MSP.
The 6s is more a "full figured" kind of ride compared to an MSP.
The 6 is a great car but just not as razor edge feel as the MSP.
Save some dough buy an MSP now with all the encentives and get a better car for less scratch.

well, it's hard for me to pass up the nice interior on the 6s :)

as far as the incentives, the two actually come very close in price for me, since the MSP has no 0% APR offer on it

I'm pretty sure the MSP will perform better then the 6. The question is, will it perform so much better that I forget about the sweet interior on the 6.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by cheesewood
I haven't test driven the car yet, but I would imagine that with a turbocharged engine, 4-5k is a pretty crappy place to lose acceleration. It sounds pretty bad, but at least now I know what to check for when I test drive the car.

thanks!
For the record my car NEVER EVER does this.
Mine just has a vrrom vrrom pulse at 3k under WOT and only for a split sec. It seldom ever occurs and 99.5% of the time I get great smooth power until redline in every gear.
Well the first 4 anyway :D I haven't taken the car to the redline in 5th I couldn't even if I wanted to because of the ECU pulls the fuel at 130-135MPH :'( Also I would have to have enough power to be RPM limited vs Drag limted so yadda yadda yadda.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by cheesewood
well, it's hard for me to pass up the nice interior on the 6s :)

as far as the incentives, the two actually come very close in price for me, since the MSP has no 0% APR offer on it

I'm pretty sure the MSP will perform better then the 6. The question is, will it perform so much better that I forget about the sweet interior on the 6.

All I can say in the after a "real" drive in either the 6 felt like ass compared to the MSP and I really liked the 6s. I had been obsessing over it for a year played the dumb online game, had all the catalogs and even the 6s video CD.
So I was really dieing to buy one. The MSP just stole the show.
I don't really care too much about the interior as long as it looks good and is fairly functional with decent seats so the MSP has got that covered. Oh and my brother just got his MSP for 17,640 out the door TTL and all.

[Schizoid]

I'm just getting out of the break-in period on my MSP, so I can't really comment on the hesitation. I had originally thought about getting a 6, too. I never actually drove one, but after checking out the interiors, I was swayed to the MSP. I love the stitching, the faux carbon, the stereo, etc. The 6 has a great dash design, but the cloth feels terrible and the leather seems very low grade. Probably on par with my Hyundai Elantra GT, but I would expect more for a car in the mid 20's competing with Accords and Camrys.

[FuriousMojo]

Hesitation is definitely there. I would hope that they wouldn't let you drive it hard to find that out in a test drive. But the vast majority of people on these boards have this problem. There are a few that say they don't but it's usually either because they've modded it and don't notice it anymore or just don't know how to recreate it.

[servoeyes]

Hey...For all the new people...stop being afraid of the hesitation. It will definitely be fixed w/in 1-2 months, max. The ECUs are already being tested. I can't stress enough how the hesitation is annoying, but it should not sway you from buying this monster.

[FuriousMojo]

Originally posted by servoeyes
I can't stress enough how the hesitation is annoying, but it should not sway you from buying this monster.

Correct! (drive)

[cheesewood]

sweet, thanks for all the insight guys

well then, I've got one more question. without factoring in incentives and rebates and all that, just how low you figure I can score this car for?

[jeremyfl]

I had a Mazda P5, Then a Mazda 6s (v6) and now I have a Mazdaspeed. This is my opinion on all of them.......

I loved my protege 5, good handling, lot of space, great value for the money. Bad thing no speed (I had a stick and it was pretty slow) my wife has an auto P5 and its really slow.

The mazda 6s, in my opinion over rated. Nice features for the price like the auto climate a/c, the stereo controls on the steering wheel, etc. Handling was ok not the greatest. Speed was alright I felt my car had a problem with the tranny or the timing, it just didnt shift right.

The 2003.5 Titanium Mazdaspeed lets just say I f@cking love this car!!! Handling is freaking amazing, stock speed is ok (I have a MBC pushing 10psi that is the way to go). And when the ECU flash upgrade comes it will be better. The stereo is great i just love this freaking car

Hope this helps!!!

[cheesewood]

Originally posted by jonnydoe48
around 4k-5k rpm, there is a split second where there is no acceleration and a drop in a few hp, but after 5k it runs fine and stuff. it all happens because the car runs too rich, but a fix is supposedly coming out soon (official)

one other thing, where can I find any official information on the soon-to-come fix?

[girth]

There is no "official" info on the hesitation fix -- most dealers don't even know about it. The only word about the fix has been on this forum.

Personally I'd also get the MSP over the 6 too. However, count on having the hesitation and clunk and don't count on Mazda fixing both of those problems. Chances are quite high you'll have to live with at least 1 of them, possibly even both. If that doesn't bother you - then absolutely get the car. It's pretty much awesome aside from those 2 problems.

[cheesewood]

Originally posted by girth
There is no "official" info on the hesitation fix -- most dealers don't even know about it. The only word about the fix has been on this forum.

Personally I'd also get the MSP over the 6 too. However, count on having the hesitation and clunk and don't count on Mazda fixing both of those problems. Chances are quite high you'll have to live with at least 1 of them, possibly even both. If that doesn't bother you - then absolutely get the car. It's pretty much awesome aside from those 2 problems.

Just out of curiousity, what is the "clunk"?

[girth]

You can get a ton of info on the clunk by searching this forum and the MP3 forum. Basically it is a "clunk" noise that the suspension makes when you go over a bump. The only "fix" so far for it has been to go to the dealership and have them replace the bushings but even that only fixes it for a few thousand miles (if that). If you want to know what it sounds like, to me it sounds exactly like if you would put a large item in the trunk and it is rattling around back there over the bumps -- really a lot like if the spare tire were to be rattling round in there or something -- but it's not a rattle/metallic sound, it's just a deep-toned clunk. Depending on who you talk to it varies from severe and incredibly obnoxious to just a mile annoyance. For me, right now, it is just a mild annoyance (I have about 4.5k miles on). I expect it to get much worse though -- especially with the snow coming. Newf is the resident expert on the clunk - he says snow and wet make it worse, so I'm sure the winter will not be kind to it.

[low_psi]

the hesitation does not affect all cars. i love the simple touches to the MSP's interior that makes it different than just an ES. the 6S has more of a luxury sport feel to me, while the MSP is a compact sports sedan that is still utilitarian while it whoops ass!! :)

[girth]

Originally posted by mx3ownzj00
the hesitation does not affect all cars.

Cheesewood, if trying to judge your odds of suffering from the hesitation, here's a poll we did a while back. Unfortunately you can pretty much count on having it.:(
http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/showthread.php?threadid=22294&highlight=hesitation+poll

Hopefully the ECU flash that's supposed to come soon will fix that all up though.

[cheesewood]

Originally posted by girth
Cheesewood, if trying to judge your odds of suffering from the hesitation, here's a poll we did a while back. Unfortunately you can pretty much count on having it.:(
http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/showthread.php?threadid=22294&highlight=hesitation+poll

Hopefully the ECU flash that's supposed to come soon will fix that all up though.

:(

[girth]

Yup, it sucks. Big. But don't get too down -- all signs are pointing toward Mazda actually coming through with a fix. Soon hopefully.

[cheesewood]

Originally posted by girth
Yup, it sucks. Big. But don't get too down -- all signs are pointing toward Mazda actually coming through with a fix. Soon hopefully.

I hope so. The clunk sounds a lot like what I have in my MX-6 right now, and it doesn't bother me that much, but if the hesitation gets fixed, that'd be sweet.

[servoeyes]

Hmmm...w/o incentive and rebates...probably walk out the door with invoice on a 2003, at maybe a little below sticker for a 2003.5/.7. With rebates et al, though, $18,500 out the door for a 2k3. Expect 500-1000$ more for the newer ones.

[jonnydoe48]

i dont have the clunk, but i dont go over speed bumps 20 mph. i slow down to 0, downshift to first, and go over bumps. with that speed i can just roll both front and rear wheels over it, and i never hear the clunk this way.

shrug.

[slug420]

clunk is heard over imperfections/potholes in the pavement at any speed.

It was at one point considered i believe that the cold weather is what causes the clunk for the first time since a lot of souther and cali owners never got it

[loj68]

I looked at the Mazda 6 too.......for all of 5 minutes when I learned it had a FORD engine............th th th th that's all folks!

[Imissmy3rdgen7]

I went to Mazda to purchase the 6s....and to make a long story short I purchased the Titanium MSP!! Never looked back...Our damn slalom is higher than the RX-8!! :D

[Brandieeym]

I couldnt get a Mazda6 knowing that they could be coming out with a MSP 6.

Turbocharged 2.3L, 280hp, 263lbs-ft torque, 6-speed manual transmission, 18" wheels.

That will be a sweet car.

[Imissmy3rdgen7]

WHOA!! :eek: that's badass.....!

[Imissmy3rdgen7]

oh, when is that coming out in US? is it out in Japan already??

[Brandieeym]

I have a site saved to my favorites on my laptop. When I get home this afternoon, I'll post a link. The next MSP to be produced is going to be the Miata (this is per my dealer).

[servoeyes]

That 2.3L PZEV is in some of the new Focii already. My buddy has a ZX3 with that motor...there's a lot of potential. It's a fairly strong motor already...too bad its in a focus. I imagine when a MS3 comes out it'll be using a similar powerplant. The MS6 I could see using a supercharged version of the V6...I haven't been up on the rumors, though...so this is pure speculation.

[cheesewood]

Originally posted by girth
Basically it is a "clunk" noise that the suspension makes when you go over a bump. The only "fix" so far for it has been to go to the dealership and have them replace the bushings but even that only fixes it for a few thousand miles (if that).

Just out of curiousity, any chance of getting aftermarket bushings to take care of that?

[AGR]

The MAZDASPEED kicks ass!:D

[yashooa]

Originally posted by cheesewood
Just out of curiousity, what is the "clunk"?

I have tried like heck to get my car to clunk but for now it just doesn't do it.
I do however think my sub mount thing may be a little loose in a couple of places. However, I have shoved alot of stuff up under it from time to time so maybe I loosened it.

[Brandieeym]

Originally posted by Brandieeym
I have a site saved to my favorites on my laptop. When I get home this afternoon, I'll post a link. The next MSP to be produced is going to be the Miata (this is per my dealer).

<a href="http://users.pandora.be/_petit/index.html"> PICTURES! </a>

[SpicyRay]

NO FAIR! that concept has a "boost gauge".

[orangezoom]

That is a hot car

[orangezoom]

I wonder if that clunk is weather related I have yet to here the Clunk and I am in Florida

[girth]

I'm not sure. Newf would know -- he'll strangle me for saying it but personally I think the cold weather makes it worse. Newf is the expert though and he says it's really more the rain and snow that makes it bad. I guess that's believable because mine has started clunking even though it was summer and hot out. For what it's worth I expect it to get worse in the winter.

And I hate to say it but if it gets too bad I'm going to sell this damn thing. For some reason the car was clunking like crazy on the way home today.:(