323 GTX PCV Valve

[t3ase]

Okay, I talked to the parts guy at the dealership today and we looked at two PCV valves, one from a 323 and one from a 03 Protege. Weird thing is that the 03 Protege one had larger holes than the 323 one. Plus the 323 did not have an elbow at the end, as the 03 Protege one did.

Why would I want to switch to a valve with a smaller opening? Makes no sense..

By the way, they were listed as $15.83 but he could drop that down a bit if I had wanted ten or more of them. If anyone can explain the benefits of the smaller valve, I'll setup a group buy.

[Elderain]

Im lost... wtf are you talking about? :D

[MazdaspeedZOOM]

Originally posted by t3ase
Okay, I talked to the parts guy at the dealership today and we looked at two PCV valves, one from a 323 and one from a 03 Protege. Weird thing is that the 03 Protege one had larger holes than the 323 one. Plus the 323 did not have an elbow at the end, as the 03 Protege one did.

Why would I want to switch to a valve with a smaller opening? Makes no sense..

By the way, they were listed as $15.83 but he could drop that down a bit if I had wanted ten or more of them. If anyone can explain the benefits of the smaller valve, I'll setup a group buy.

Excellant question so bascially this is a "bump" to find the answer. If we come to an agreement that this part would be needed or is a good idea then I'll be down for your group buy most likely.

[MazdaDryvr]

There was a guy on that other thread that seemed to know about this issue. We need to contact him! Somehow....

[jred321]

http://mazdamp3.com/vbb230/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26032&highlight=323+gtx+pcv
it was in this thread he explained it, mspdave125 where you at?

[MazdaspeedZOOM]

Originally posted by jred321
http://mazdamp3.com/vbb230/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26032&highlight=323+gtx+pcv
it was in this thread he explained it, mspdave125 where you at?

Good resource but doesn't fully explain the orginal questions about the size of the whole and the bend.

[MazdaDryvr]

well the old 323 engine was a 1.6, maybe that would explain the size diff regarding the hole. The elbow might just be an engineering change to accomodate the newer engine. Just speculation folks, nothing to see here, move along...... :)

[jred321]

Originally posted by MazdaspeedZOOM
Good resource but doesn't fully explain the orginal questions about the size of the whole and the bend.
i know, it was more of a bumping post hoping the original poster would see it. speaking of bumping, bump

[INGREXCO]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! TURKEY INSIDE!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahahahhaha thats f'in amazing!

[MSPDAVE125]

For those who did not see the last thread.........


The PCV Valve was introduced into normal production on passenger cars in 1963 as a part of a Governmental push to reduce exhaust emissions from passenger cars. It's job is to relieve positive air pressure from the crank case, pull fumes from the crank case to be re-burned, and to keep fresh air flowing inside the engine.

The PCV on a N/A 2.0L protege will handle a header, an intake, You could probably even spray No2.

Add Boost? Sure 6 psi it will be fine. 10 psi +? Not a snow ball's chance in hell!

What happens is the diaphram or butterfly inside the valve gets blown out from the extra CFM that forced induction creates.

So the air being sucked out of the Crankcase is travelling way too fast for the stock valve to handle in turn pulling oil and sludge with it. You will end up with oil and sludge in your intake manifold, on your valve cover, hindering performance This is an issue amungst Miata owners around North America.

The smaller yet more effective 323 GTX valve holds 9 psi stock!

Or you could always just replace your PCV valve every oil change.

[MazdaspeedZOOM]

Originally posted by MSPDAVE125
For those who did not see the last thread.........



The PCV on a N/A 2.0L protege will handle a header, an intake, You could probably even spray No2.

Add Boost? Sure 6 psi it will be fine. 10 psi +? Not a snow ball's chance in hell!

What happens is the diaphram or butterfly inside the valve gets blown out from the extra CFM that forced induction creates.

So the air being sucked out of the Crankcase is travelling way too fast for the stock valve to handle in turn pulling oil and sludge with it. You will end up with oil and sludge in your intake manifold, on your valve cover, hindering performance This is an issue amungst Miata owners around North America.

The smaller yet more effective 323 GTX valve holds 9 psi stock!

Or you could always just replace your PCV valve every oil change.

I'm just worried that it being smaller in size it will cause more pressure in the head there for hindering performance in that matter. I just can't see how a smaller valve is better for flow?

[t3ase]

^-- Exactly.

[MSPDAVE125]

I don't think we should be as concerned about how much the valve flows as to what the valve flows.

The big concern is a plugged valve and a valve that let's other materials through other than waste gases.

If you are concerened however. Than just by 5 PCV valves and replace as needed.

[MazdaDryvr]

I think he's getting at the fact that the durability of the valve is more important than the relative size of the opening. That's my take on it anyway. :)

[t3ase]

If the valves were the same size, I'd have no problem recommending it and setting up a group buy through my dealer so we could get them for around $10 each shipped. However, before I do that, I'm still concerned about the opening size. I've physically seen both valves side by side and the difference is very noticable. Will this difference hamper air flow? Just because another product is "made for boost" does not mean it will benefit this engine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but LinuxRacr and big_ben both have turbo setups on their Protege engines and they didn't once mention this new valve.

I'm not trying to bitch to you but I need something more than "the valve holds boost better" when the diameter of the hoses are obviously different. I, for one, do not feel comfortable sticking in a more restrictive part, just because the valve is different, into this setup that already seems like it's suffering from not enough air.

[MSP Chris]

hey guys for the air flow of the PCV valves...we are not talking about something that flows incrediable amounts of air. This just helps vent combustion gases out of your crankscase. This small amount of gas mixture slips past your piston rings. So trust me I seriously doubt it is a problem...can you say hose clamps to hold it in place?

[Cirielle]

I brought this up to the guys at Spool as well and they had never heard of doing this either. They haven't had any problems with their PCV's either. I figured they would know if there was a problem because they would a.) see it first hand or b.) have a customer complain to them about it.

[t3ase]

Yeah, I think I'm sticking with stock here. Even if the air flow is small, I don't see a realistic reason why I should go ahead and switch out the valve when it's in perfect working order as-is. If it leaks/breaks/whatever, get it covered by warranty and then replace it if you choose to at that time.

[mspforever]

Well incase anybody decides they do want to buy it the part number is B2040-24325 and can be bought from http://www.maximumautoparts.com/ for a little under $5.00.

[LinuxRacr]

I'm not sure what to think accually since I need to research what the PCV valve accually does.

[BremertonMSP]

Originally posted by DrUnKeN PaNdA
hey guys for the air flow of the PCV valves...we are not talking about something that flows incrediable amounts of air. This just helps vent combustion gases out of your crankscase. This small amount of gas mixture slips past your piston rings. So trust me I seriously doubt it is a problem...can you say hose clamps to hold it in place?

Also, the PCV does not filter out any oil or sludge that may make it's way up to it. It's just a valve. When I was heavy into the 2.3L turbo Ford motors, the only good PCV valve to use was the Ford one. Any aftermarket valve would not hold up to boost. That is the main problem with PCV valves on boosted motors. They will allow pressure to slip by them and actually pressurize the crankcase causing power loss and possible damage.

It's interesting that Mazda didn't account for this and adapt the 323 PCV for the Mazdaspeed. I guess we need to add it to the list of things Mazda didn't account for.

[t3ase]

So since you have experience, would this be a recommended upgrade?

[LinuxRacr]

Here's a quote from another thread in the Mazdaspeed section about running 9-10 PSI:


Originally posted by Tex
PCV = Positive Crankcase Ventilitation. It routes blow-by gases that escape past the rings back into the intake system so they can be burned up in the combustion process. Without this ventilation system, pressure would build up in the crankcase, decreasing efficiency, and possibly breaking things.

In the old days, cars just had a downtube coming out of the engine block that vented blow-by to the atmosphere. Naturally, it was a huge source of pollution, and was eventually replaced by the PCV valve and it's associated intake plumbing.

[t3ase]

Well if it's for blowing off gases, wouldn't the stock large output diameter be more beneficial than a more restrictive one?

I'm still confused.. :confused:

[MazdaspeedZOOM]

Originally posted by t3ase
Well if it's for blowing off gases, wouldn't the stock large output diameter be more beneficial than a more restrictive one?

I'm still confused.. :confused:

I agree on both accounts, I'm still confused yes, but then of course about the whole larger diameter flowing better. It is in my theory that a smaller pcv valve would cause greater pressure in the head because your not being able to releave as much of the air in the crank case when you go to a smaller valve. I don't know this is all just a theory, I guess in theory also that the amount of air being released is so small that even with a smaller valve it may not make a noticeable difference.

[Logan]

If everyone is concerned about their PCV valve, compare ours to one from, say, a WRX. That engine IS designed for a turbo, will that PCV valve fit? 2 litre turbo....
Any other 2 litre turbo's that anyone can think of that are "current" engines?

[Captain KRM P5]

i've been turboed for a while and never heard of / thought of doing this modification. i might email FM and see what thoughts they have on the subject.

[MazdaDryvr]

Has anyone checked with a Mazda Dealer? :confused:

[t3ase]

Originally posted by MazdaDryvr
Has anyone checked with a Mazda Dealer? :confused:
Yes, I've checked with a dealership. They even questioned why it would make a difference, which is why I came back on and started asking questions.

[MazdaDryvr]

Has this become a philisophical matter then? :)

" There is no PCV valve"

[MSPDAVE125]

I think I am going to buy every 323 gtx PCV valve in the world and wait to see what happens!

:D

Logan: The 4G63 Mitsu motor is a 2.0L Won't work though.



However this has turned into quite the discussion.

[02.5 P5]

was there ever any conclusion to this supposed problem with the PCV?

[t3ase]

I've put on 19k miles without changing my PCV valve out. No leaking, no blowing pcv valves, just a few other unrelated problems. I'd keep it the same.

[TheMAN]

he said "wrx motor"... that's a subaru EJ20 :D


Originally posted by MSPDAVE125
I think I am going to buy every 323 gtx PCV valve in the world and wait to see what happens!

:D

Logan: The 4G63 Mitsu motor is a 2.0L Won't work though.



However this has turned into quite the discussion.

[fasteract]

The PCV valve on my Audi turbo (vented crankcase to intake manifold) had a one way valve which would prevent compressed intake air above atm pressure from reversing that path and "turbocharging" the crank. When it failed I would ooze oil out the head gasket seam since the crankcase was pressurized..I'm talking 20 psi of boost from my setup here ! Does the MSP even have this oneway set-up ? More correctly, since all PCV have a oneway valve set-up, I believe, ..does it have a stronger valve arrangement when compared to a N/A motor to resist the higher intake pressures a turbo produces ?

[t3ase]

That's what we're trying to figure out. Some people say no, it doesn't have any added strength.

[MazdaDryvr]

well, i got a 323 pcv valve just in case this ever gets resolved. (or before MSPDave buys them all) :D

[MazdaDryvr]

Bump

[03MSPRO]

why bump a thread 9 months old?
btw, the PCV valve is closed under pressure (boost).

[MazdaDryvr]

I bumped it because it wasnt resolved and I would like to have any new info. I figured after so long someone must have more info.

[03MSPRO]

I bumped it because it wasnt resolved and I would like to have any new info. I figured after so long someone must have more info.
I'd like to know more info too, but I think everyone gave up on this. It is one of those things that never get resolved.

[bored132]

ive had the 323 gtx PCV valve in may car for a while now. It doesnt leak at higher boost levels, but it didnt before the valve either.

[MazdaDryvr]

ive had the 323 gtx PCV valve in may car for a while now
But nothing has blown up yet either, right? :)

[03MSPRO]

I think Mazda would have used the 323 PCV is it was necessary. They had access to it already as well as other PCV valves from other Mazda turbo cars.
There are also other Proteges boosting a lot more than the MSP using bigger turbos using the stock PCV.
I think money and efforts can go into other things more important that really need improvement.
Fuel management HINT HINT

[MazdaDryvr]

well, i guess i'll hold off switching it then. Now if I could only find out what that odd noise is that started up a few weeks ago.