Mod list: troubeshoot

[stoney]

Wel I'm gonna get my MSP soon and these are some mods I am looking at, so give me your ideas and if these things are compatible or no. Thanks. (Please try not to flame)

-Spool turbo systems T3 turbo kit
comes with:
T3 turbocharger
FMIC
ceramic-coated intercooling piping
fuel pump
external Turbonetics w/g
w/g plumbing
intake kit with conical filter (replace with AEM CAI)
HKS BOV (upgrade to GReddy Type-S BOV)
Spool full-tubular manifold

other stuff

-Apexi N1 exhaust
-Bosch 450cc fuel injectors
-color silicone radiator pulmbing (also used as engine dress-up)
-Bosch spark plug wires
-Bosch +4 spark plugs
-GReddy E0-1 boost controller
-Autometer A-pillar 3-pod gauge mount
gauges:
GReddy white face series air/fuel ratio gauge and turbo boost gauge
NOS nitrous pressure gauge 0-1500psi
-Nitrous Express Import EFI single nozzle nitrous system (35-50-75hp)
-GReddy remote 12-volt switch mounted to steering wheel (nitrous activation)
-R1 Sport seats Black on black
-Sparco 4-point locking harness'
-Sparco shoulder pads
and finally
-G-Tech Pro Competition meter

so what do ya think? How much power do you think i will lay down with this set-up (minus nitrous)? Thanks for your imput.

Dave

[uclap5]

just wondrin, why msp if you are getting a whole new turbo set up?


no microtech? you sure you want to live with the hesitation? :D

[pshaw34]

how much money do you have? You dont want to even give the T25 a chance? good luck though. hope everything works out good

[Striker187]

nos? please....but anyways, if you want my opinion, i'd say keep the hks ssqv. it won't leak because of its design. don't get me wrong, i doubt the greddy will leak but hey, that hks sound is awesome :D

[stoney]

once i get the car i will only have 2K for upgrades and i will get the GReddy E0-1 boost controller and a larger FMIC i guess. I don't know about the full turbo kit yet. And no it isn't NOS, it is nitrous express, NOS is a company :) . Hey, it makes you go faster and it is a smallish kit so it wo't destroy my engine. I'm not sure what ECU or engine managment i should get? Any ideas?

Dave

[Apexi]

ditch the platinum plugs and go with some copper plugs, remember to go a bit colder if your upping the boost so you dont get preignition or whatever it is

[loj68]

buy an STI or an EVO and save yourself the headaches......with that much mods plus NOS (buy a spare engine) you'll be in the garage more than on the street.

[stoney]

oh yea colder plugs so i won't get knock. Good idea, thanx
I looked at and Evo or STi but the insurance will kill me (18 year old male, single, and poor).

Dave

[perfworks]

ummmm Forged internals???
Engine management???

How are you going to control the injectors.??

[stoney]

i wasn't aware of any forged internals for the FS engine.....I'm new to the Protege scene. As i said in a previous post i don't know what engine managment to get, i'm looking at Apexi, Greddy and AEM.

Dave

[loj68]

Originally posted by stoney
oh yea colder plugs so i won't get knock. Good idea, thanx
I looked at and Evo or STi but the insurance will kill me (18 year old male, single, and poor).

Dave

In that case I'd buy a used 89-91 CRX HF (1900 lbs) and drop a B16 in it......fast, reliable, and cheap.....you could do the whole job for under $5k including the car.....and more mods available than you could possibly ever buy.....$20k is an expensive ass car.....that's a lot of debt to carry at so young.....buy Rex and and go to college :)

[Apexi]

crx?!! oh fk no.... 1g dsm.. much more potential.

[twizyours]

crx?!! oh fk no.... 1g dsm.. much more potential.


probe/mx-6 GT Turbo more bang for the buck
2400 lbs and for about 2,000 dollars you would be way above 200 hp and forget about the tq it creates.

Then go to college

[perfworks]

Originally posted by stoney
i wasn't aware of any forged internals for the FS engine.....I'm new to the Protege scene. As i said in a previous post i don't know what engine managment to get, i'm looking at Apexi, Greddy and AEM.

Dave
well we have a piggyback system that will control fuel and ignition along with boost. If you would like any info email me and we can talk about it.

[INGREXCO]

dude crx? thats a lil getto race car. to hell with that why would you all even suggest the sti or the evo, i dont even wanna get into the crx. GET THE DAMN MAZDASPEED ahahaha yeah ide get forged internal and a new tranny ontop of that

[Striker187]

well once you get everything else for the car.....ok i can understand the nos :D i think pauter makes rods for the FS engine. just search around, i'm sure you'll be able to find some companies. try JE for pistons....they seem to make them for everything.

hope that helps.

[stoney]

i'm def getten the Mazdaspeed......no worries on that. I really hate Civic's because of they stereostypes they recieve, but oh well. I don't want a CRX or any used car, the car i have now is used and personally believe if you buy a used car you are buying some else's headaches (I have a '99 Toyota Camry and it SUX!). I'll check out JE for pistons and con rods, thanx for the advice.

Dave

[kpracer94]

Hey man, you say you don't want any headaches? If you mod the MSP or any other car to that extent you are going to have
alot of headaches and spend a ton of money in the process. Ask
people who have done it and see. You still have to make the
payments when its in the shop. Just be careful and know the facts
going into it.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by twizyours
crx?!! oh fk no.... 1g dsm.. much more potential.


probe/mx-6 GT Turbo more bang for the buck
2400 lbs and for about 2,000 dollars you would be way above 200 hp and forget about the tq it creates.

Then go to college

haha- you could go 12's in a DSM for $200 :). If you know what you are doing. The probe and MX6 have almost no potential in stock form. Bang for the buck, it is DSM all the way.
Joe

[twizyours]

haha- you could go 12's in a DSM for $200 . If you know what you are doing. The probe and MX6 have almost no potential in stock form. Bang for the buck, it is DSM all the way.
Joe

I have seen probes eat 1st gen eclipses in stock form. $200 dolaars wooooo I was trying not to be ghetto about the upgrades but I could go the same rout. Yes the turbo on dsm are better but not by much they are both small in stock. all you really have to do is 2.5 in cat back exhaust $80. Raise the boost to atleat 10 since a probe barely sees 9 psi. 2.5 inch downpipe. better intercooling piping (anyone who has seen a probe the stock rubber hoses expand under boost really suxs) and a rx-7 compressor and you would easily be over or about 200 hp and again forget about the tq. Did I also mention that a majority of the power is made in the 4000 rpm.

[MazdaProbeGT]

Probes are great cars, but definitely not best bang for your buck. I agree, 2 Gen DSM's are sweet. Too bad everyone and their sister has one.

As for your mods list... why don't you get the car first before you worry about all that other shiot. Saying you're gonna do this and that before you even have the car is ludacris.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by twizyours
haha- you could go 12's in a DSM for $200 . If you know what you are doing. The probe and MX6 have almost no potential in stock form. Bang for the buck, it is DSM all the way.
Joe

I have seen probes eat 1st gen eclipses in stock form. $200 dolaars wooooo I was trying not to be ghetto about the upgrades but I could go the same rout. Yes the turbo on dsm are better but not by much they are both small in stock. all you really have to do is 2.5 in cat back exhaust $80. Raise the boost to atleat 10 since a probe barely sees 9 psi. 2.5 inch downpipe. better intercooling piping (anyone who has seen a probe the stock rubber hoses expand under boost really suxs) and a rx-7 compressor and you would easily be over or about 200 hp and again forget about the tq. Did I also mention that a majority of the power is made in the 4000 rpm.

Haha- "not trying to be ghetto" in an 89 Probe :). lol

Seriously though, I have had several customers with PGT turbos and they played with them until they realized they were wasting their time- now 3 of them have 400+ WHP DSM's :). If you consider 200 hp a lot of power for all the mods you mentioned, so be it- everyone has their idea of fast, powerful, etc and it is just a matter of opinion.. I have seen DSM's put 285-315 WHP down on a stock turbo with properly selected bolt on's and tuning, so 200 is Honda territory :).. The Probe is like the Turbo 2.2 chryslers- they "can" run, but aren't the most cost effective, reliable or even modern. The ECU's in the DSM's are about 5 years ahead of the Probe stuff- between the active knock retard (it bases it's timing OFF the knock sensor instead of just pulling it back eventually after it does knock) and the MAF setup- the fuel and timing control are worlds apart..
Joe
PS- The 1G DSM turbo dwarfs the puny paperweight that the PGT has- I don't know where you got the idea that they weren't that much different.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by MazdaProbeGT
Probes are great cars, but definitely not best bang for your buck. I agree, 2 Gen DSM's are sweet. Too bad everyone and their sister has one.

As for your mods list... why don't you get the car first before you worry about all that other shiot. Saying you're gonna do this and that before you even have the car is ludacris.

2G DSM's have the looks, 1G's have more potential with less work.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

As for your mods list, you need to determine what your goals are- 1/4 mile, road race, most HP, most bang for the buck, etc.. Let me/us know your goals and we can take it from there.
Joe

[twizyours]

PS- The 1G DSM turbo dwarfs the puny paperweight that the PGT has- I don't know where you got the idea that they weren't that much different.

A T25 is not all that, but you are rite the stock probe turbo is nothing, but with a t3 turbine and rx-7 compressor. I was also going for good mild street, I think I could pull 300 HP at of the 2.2 stock but I havent dont have the money now so well see. I was just going for street usee 200 plus horsepower in a 2400 lb car isnt bad. If I wanted to start getting into all out or track. Well lets say you can easily get a pgt for $2000 or less A FE3 Hmmm you tell me the potentiol of that. To my understanding the fe3 drops rite in a 1st gen probe/mx-6. That engine is real sweet. The engine also doesnt cost no $3000. I am not knocking dsm,s as I like them. You also dont have all that many people that go all out on 1st gen probes as resources as quit plentifull. I do agree on the ecu as most mazda ecus arent really up to par. Their is alot of potentiol depending on what avenue you choose. If you think the Fe3 motor is a joke, well then I dont know what to say. I wish I could get a prob rite now to play with but I cant. I will never believe the probe has no potentiol stock. Is their more for the dsm yes, but who said fun is always easy. Considering the price of a probe and fe3 it is cost efective. It all depends on what you want, like, and how you want to get it.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by twizyours
PS- The 1G DSM turbo dwarfs the puny paperweight that the PGT has- I don't know where you got the idea that they weren't that much different.

A T25 is not all that, but you are rite the stock probe turbo is nothing, but with a t3 turbine and rx-7 compressor. I was also going for good mild street, I think I could pull 300 HP at of the 2.2 stock but I havent dont have the money now so well see. I was just going for street usee 200 plus horsepower in a 2400 lb car isnt bad. If I wanted to start getting into all out or track. Well lets say you can easily get a pgt for $2000 or less A FE3 Hmmm you tell me the potentiol of that. To my understanding the fe3 drops rite in a 1st gen probe/mx-6. That engine is real sweet. The engine also doesnt cost no $3000. I am not knocking dsm,s as I like them. You also dont have all that many people that go all out on 1st gen probes as resources as quit plentifull. I do agree on the ecu as most mazda ecus arent really up to par. Their is alot of potentiol depending on what avenue you choose. If you think the Fe3 motor is a joke, well then I dont know what to say. I wish I could get a prob rite now to play with but I cant. I will never believe the probe has no potentiol stock. Is their more for the dsm yes, but who said fun is always easy. Considering the price of a probe and fe3 it is cost efective. It all depends on what you want, like, and how you want to get it.

1st- T25 is on the 2G's- that turbo is not the same as the 14B on the 1G- much less air flow :).. I was referring to the 14B. EDIT- also, the T3 turbine with RX7 compressor is comparable to the 14B, still not that big of a turbo- your "upgrade" is just about equal to the DSM stock turbo :).

Also, I never said the motor wasn't that good, but the fuel management sucks, so you are fighting an uphill battle. While I never said it wasn't that bad, it isn't the best either. The 4G63 is capable of handling in excess of 500 crank HP without even as much as a re-ring. It is a VERY stout motor. Couple that with the engine management and you have a very potent street car (in the right hands) for very little $$$.. If you are talking $$$- I bought a 91 TSI AWD for $3000- a used catback was $150 and I gutted the cat, put an MBC on it ($45), did the "free stuff" (MAF hacks, etc.) and a K&N stock replacement filter ($30)- the car went 12.92 102 and it was 100% stock aside from the mods listed- stock turbo, IC, IC pipes, clutch, AC, fully loaded, leather, etc.- I'd call that a street car, not a race car :).. All for a total of $3225!!! Why the hell would you want to buy a car that you are saying a motor swap is a mod and then consider that "bang for the buck". OK, might be bang for the "buck" but definately not the most bang for the "effort"..

There is a reason you don't see many (if any?) PGT's running good #'s at the track :).

It is mostly just a matter of opinion and preference, however- there is some fact involved also as to the "potential" of the different cars with stock electronics, etc..

Just curious (can't remember) is the PGT single or dual cam? If it is single, that is something else you have against you when building.
Joe
PS- I agree with your "but who said fun is always easy" comment- that is part of the reason I still have the MSP :).. I have a much faster car and I can easily build other cars to be much faster, but it is still fun making it do more than it did stock :)..

[stoney]

Joe; I am looking for a fast car in a straight line but I also want to corner :) . The problem is, around here everyone that is fast has big muscle cars with heavy V-8's. Very few have imports. I want to show people want a well modded Mazda can do! I'm not looking for sub 9 seconds 1/4 mile times, or even 10 seconds, but i guess around the mid to high 12's and maybe an 11 every once in a while :) .

Dave

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by stoney
Joe; I am looking for a fast car in a straight line but I also want to corner :) . The problem is, around here everyone that is fast has big muscle cars with heavy V-8's. Very few have imports. I want to show people want a well modded Mazda can do! I'm not looking for sub 9 seconds 1/4 mile times, or even 10 seconds, but i guess around the mid to high 12's and maybe an 11 every once in a while :) .

Dave

I would start by making sure you have a strong bottom end. If you build with forged internals, ARP harware, etc. you will have a good foundation to go from. If you want, you can get the head ported (not the biggest bang for the buck on a turbo car, but at least you will have a motor that you can do anything with when you put it back in :). I would probably get the head o ringed also just as insurance because I know what I would put it through.

Once the motor is done, everything else is just typical turbo car stuff- good exhaust, FMIC, fuel system, ijectors, etc.. The turbo I would just personally call Forced Performance (www.forcedperformance.net) and tell Robert what I want to do and let him tell me what to use- he is a whiz with turbos.

The tough part will be fuel and timing management. Perfworks is working on a piggy back unit that should get the job done nicely for you. A full standalone would be nice also, but a real hassle on the street to get tuned right and the MSP is not the easiest car to install one in :(.

Once you get it done, there is no reason that you couldn't spray a 75 shot on it also- the benefit of building a good motor and o-ringing the head :)..

there is no reason you can't run 11's with this car with the right setup. HOWEVER- the trans is not the strongest. Based on that I would build a car that would make the MPH and the power to pull into the low 12's- high 11's with easy driving. In other words- build a low-mid 11 second car and baby it to low 12's- don't build a high 12 second car and piss pound it into the 11's :)..
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by stoney
Joe; I am looking for a fast car in a straight line but I also want to corner :) . The problem is, around here everyone that is fast has big muscle cars with heavy V-8's. Very few have imports. I want to show people want a well modded Mazda can do! I'm not looking for sub 9 seconds 1/4 mile times, or even 10 seconds, but i guess around the mid to high 12's and maybe an 11 every once in a while :) .

Dave

heheh- I forgot to mention- being a 11-12 second import sucks usually though- the "real" domestics are way to fast to mess with and won't respect you anyway since you drive an import and the "typical" import cars aren't worth your time and you don't even want to associate with them anyway :).. You usually end up being the loner at the car shows :).. I deal with it with my Talon all the time..
Joe

[boostisgood]

Stoney, You must not get out of your nieghborhood much. There are MAD Sport compacts around dood, and it keeps getting bigger.

goto www.pittracing.com to find alot of meets, cruise around grandview ave, south park, the waterfront, anywhere else where big parking lots are, and you will find them. :D

Ohhh, if you got AIM hit me up at the addy listed below. we could set a meet, and what not. :D

[stoney]

sounds cool boostisgood. I live in Greensburg (Blah Blah) and at the local Ammco trany place there is a car show every sunday. One guy there had a Neon (yuck) and some one had a PT Curiser (Even worse). There were some pretty trick rides there, such as an 8 second '39 Chevy with a 350 bored over. Not too many well-modded imports around here in this neck of the woods.
Joe; thanx very much for the advise. I realise i need a strong bottom end to make sure i dont blow the engine and i can safely add mroe boost :) . Just wondern tho, how much would all that stuff cost me initally (getting the head ported, forged internals, ARP stuff and and the o-rings)? I will have roughly $2,000 to $1,500 once i get the MSP, so can i fit that stuff in with that much $$? Thanx

Dave