My dyno #'s :)

[kwiktsi]

Guys, just got back. Unfortunately we could only get 1 good pull due to heatsoak :(. He didn't have crap for a fan :(..

Anyway- the dyno is a "land and sea" portable dyno. The operator told me right off the bat that you have to add 15% to compare with stanard DynoJet chassis dyno results..

With that being said- I did 229.1 hp@5800 and 212.9@5100-

That equates to about 263.5hp and about 244 ft lbs on a typical dynojet chassis dyno :).. I called 260 last night- should have took bets :)..

This was with an 18-19 psi peak and dropping to about 13-14 psi by redline on 116 and colder plugs. The dyno operator was very impressed with both the peak output and the flat torque curve and with the fact that it held a steady 13:1 AF..
Joe

[Kooldino]

19psi! :-O

Holy GOD!

[SuperSpud]

isnt 19 high?? good job though.. how much wheel hp is that??

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by SuperSpud
isnt 19 high?? good job though.. how much wheel hp is that??

Umm- that was wheel HP :). 19 psi is high on pump gas, untuned and stock plugs. I was running 116, lots of time tuning and colder plugs :).
Joe
PS- I was shooting for 21 psi, but couldn't get enough runs to get it situated.

[twiztedjeckel]

not too shabby

[PaulMP3]

nice

[BlueMP5Dave]

good R&D, seems to be coming along nicely

[MP3skaterNC]

crazy 19psi on stock internals, geez. JOE YOUR CRAZY!!!! wow. geez, dyno on pump gas now fool!

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by MP3skaterNC
crazy 19psi on stock internals, geez. JOE YOUR CRAZY!!!! wow. geez, dyno on pump gas now fool!

I want to dyno on pump, but I still have 116 in it from the track the other night. This was mainly to see what it would do "maxed" out. There was still more to go, but I only got 3 pulls and it was too hot to improve on this. I am thinking of going to another dyno in a few weeks to tune on pump and then shoot for a better peak on race fuel.

It is not the PSI that is killing these motors- it is the tuning. Granted, they are not the strongest- but they are not what people say either.
Joe
PS- Anyone know the HP drop through the drivetrain in these cars? I am curious what I am at the crank- has to be about 300..

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by 2001redmicadave
good R&D, seems to be coming along nicely

Thanks :).. The car is doing much better than originally expected. I am quite happy with it.
Joe

[AGR]

Joe: Aren't you afraid of it just blowing the hell up??!!

[2K3 MSP]

Like he said Greg, thats the best way to know what your car can handle....Push it till it blows, then turn it down a notch the next time around. :) Good work Joe!!

[MazdaspeedZOOM]

ok joe, you keep mentioning colder plugs in your car, obvioulsy meaning spark plugs. What are the advantages of running these over the stock one's we have and also the most important question were'd ya get them, and what are the one's your using.

[nobody]

How long did it stay @ 19 psi? or it just gradually comes down to 13-14 psi? if it only stray at 19psi for a split second, I would call that a spike. what kind hp did you during heat soak?


Originally posted by kwiktsi
Guys, just got back. Unfortunately we could only get 1 good pull due to heatsoak :(. He didn't have crap for a fan :(..

Anyway- the dyno is a "land and sea" portable dyno. The operator told me right off the bat that you have to add 15% to compare with stanard DynoJet chassis dyno results..

With that being said- I did 229.1 hp@5800 and 212.9@5100-

That equates to about 263.5hp and about 244 ft lbs on a typical dynojet chassis dyno :).. I called 260 last night- should have took bets :)..

This was with an 18-19 psi peak and dropping to about 13-14 psi by redline on 116 and colder plugs. The dyno operator was very impressed with both the peak output and the flat torque curve and with the fact that it held a steady 13:1 AF..
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by AGR#7
Joe: Aren't you afraid of it just blowing the hell up??!!

Yes and no- yes because it is not the strongest motor out there and no because I know it is not as weak as people mention and I know my tuning. I have to see it for myself. A lot of the problems are tuning issues coupled with a weak motor. It will live a lot longer if tuned and monitored properly and you lift off when there is a problem and don't just keep pushing it :)
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by MazdaspeedZOOM
ok joe, you keep mentioning colder plugs in your car, obvioulsy meaning spark plugs. What are the advantages of running these over the stock one's we have and also the most important question were'd ya get them, and what are the one's your using.

Colder plugs will help prevent detonation because they run cooler at the tip (transfer more heat to the head) and do not pre-ignite as easily. The stock Platinums are even worse since they are 1) a hotter plug and 2) platinum tends to get extremely hot at the tip and glow which will cause pre ignition issues.

The plugs I got are NGK BKR7E, stock #6097- either number should be fine. Any parts store that carries NGK should either have them or be able to get them with no problem. It is a standard NGK plug- 1 heat range colder and standard tip.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by 2K3 Mazdaspeed
Like he said Greg, thats the best way to know what your car can handle....Push it till it blows, then turn it down a notch the next time around. :) Good work Joe!!

I would prefer to not blow it, but you got it :).. I am not really even looking for it's limits right now- just need to see if it will do what I am looking to do with it right now.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by nobody
How long did it stay @ 19 psi? or it just gradually comes down to 13-14 psi? if it only stray at 19psi for a split second, I would call that a spike. what kind hp did you during heat soak?




Umm, no- it holds 19 until the turbo can't hold it anymore and drops off from there.

I only got 1 full run after that and it was after a few different attempts to up the load on the rollers to try to keep the boost up- so it was VERY hot and I had the boost down 15 max (playing with the controller while doing the load tests) and it did like 198 (about 227 corrected)...

I have a video of the boost gauge during the run if anyone knows how to put it up here. It is kind of jumpy as I am running through the gears, but once I get to third, I steady the camera out :). Let me know how to post it and I will put it up!!
Joe

[perfworks]

im callin' it

:bs:


























J/K joe.;) nice job getting some R&D done
but you will need better intake piping and maybe FMIC we have now for the protege(hint hint)
cool the charge down a little on that T25.
did you have the MAF blocker on? i forgot to ask youthat before.

[MazdaspeedZOOM]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


Colder plugs will help prevent detonation because they run cooler at the tip (transfer more heat to the head) and do not pre-ignite as easily. The stock Platinums are even worse since they are 1) a hotter plug and 2) platinum tends to get extremely hot at the tip and glow which will cause pre ignition issues.


Is having colder plugs a good thing to have if you plan on upping the boost of the car, even if your only looking to go to 10psi.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by perfworks
im callin' it

:bs:









J/K joe.;) nice job getting some R&D done
but you will need better intake piping and maybe FMIC we have now for the protege(hint hint)
cool the charge down a little on that T25.
did you have the MAF blocker on? i forgot to ask youthat before.

hahah- I was hoping there was a J/K down there after our converation today :). I definately need better piping, I want to do IC also, but want to do it on the stock IC for now just for :bragging rights" :). I would leave the piping if I wasn't worried about it exploding!!!

Yeah, I have the latest design of my FCD in there. The one that will probably see production.
Joe

[nobody]

I usually do back to back to back dyno runs till I get a stable number, that a real world number!! I have friend that freezes the I/C will N2O and get 60whp out of the run!!!!

Originally posted by kwiktsi


Umm, no- it holds 19 until the turbo can't hold it anymore and drops off from there.

I only got 1 full run after that and it was after a few different attempts to up the load on the rollers to try to keep the boost up- so it was VERY hot and I had the boost down 15 max (playing with the controller while doing the load tests) and it did like 198 (about 227 corrected)...

I have a video of the boost gauge during the run if anyone knows how to put it up here. It is kind of jumpy as I am running through the gears, but once I get to third, I steady the camera out :). Let me know how to post it and I will put it up!!
Joe :eek: :eek:

[AGR]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


Yes and no- yes because it is not the strongest motor out there and no because I know it is not as weak as people mention and I know my tuning. I have to see it for myself. A lot of the problems are tuning issues coupled with a weak motor. It will live a lot longer if tuned and monitored properly and you lift off when there is a problem and don't just keep pushing it :)
Joe

Ok. I guess with your know how, if it did blow; would you just try to get it back to stock, and carry it to Mazda, or just rebuild it yourself, and not try to get it passed them?

I was out this morning on some back country roads running around 9psi, and I don't know if I could have handled much more of a grin!! :D But; The Back Road Boogie is more my thing.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by MazdaspeedZOOM


Is having colder plugs a good thing to have if you plan on upping the boost of the car, even if your only looking to go to 10psi.

It will be some added insurance for those "just in case" situations :).. I wanted to wait until my tank was pure pump gas to test them more and then I was going to give feedback. Just remember guys- *my* particular MSP can run aver 14 psi on a hot day without detonating- on a cool day it pings badly at 11 psi. This is new to all of us- I have no clue how this car will run come winter time :). It is *your job* as the driver and "tweaker" (you did the mods- you are the tweaker :D) to monitor such things as boost, A/F, detonation, etc. If the temp drops and all the MSP's start to detonate at 9 psi and all you 9.5 psi guys launch the motors because you are ignorantly (not calling you guys "ignorant", just saying you are ignoring wha the car is doing) pounding their cars, you have no one to blame but yourself. Believe me, there are several members here who know the difference and will post immediately if there tuning suddenly changes and the car runs like crap or is potentially going to blow up :).
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by nobody
I usually do back to back to back dyno runs till I get a stable number, that a real world number!! I have friend that freezes the I/C will N2O and get 60whp out of the run!!!!

:eek: :eek:

I agree, HOWEVER- this guy didn't have squat for fans, so we couldn't copy the "real world 60+mph wind" going through the IC, radiator and engine compartment either :)..

The first run was the closest to real #'s for my car because it was hammered all the way to the dyno and then driven right up without even being turned off :). It was a good simulation of what the car would do after sitting at a light and then smoking the Mustang next to you :).
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by AGR#7


Ok. I guess with your know how, if it did blow; would you just try to get it back to stock, and carry it to Mazda, or just rebuild it yourself, and not try to get it passed them?

I was out this morning on some back country roads running around 9psi, and I don't know if I could have handled much more of a grin!! :D But; The Back Road Boogie is more my thing.

I don't know. Even if I pulled one over on Mazda, I would still build another motor and swap it out anyway. So I might just spend the extra $200-$300 on a core motor and build it instead of going through the hassle of dealing with Mazda, waiting for them to fix it and then pulling it out anyway. Honestly, it would depend on the financial situation at the time and what I was doing when it went- if I was really pissed and bitching about it being a weak POS, I would probably put it to stock, let Mazda do it and then trade it in towards my Evo :).

you gotta try the "back road boogie" at 15+ psi :)!! Well, not literally- don't go blow your car up :). Just saying how much more fun it is with the power ).
Joe

[nobody]

just want to make sure! knows a lot of people will let the car sit for 11/2 hour, then do a run, and use that number for promo!! but I usually only use a small blue fan on the dyno, as the Dynojet doesn't have much of a load....that why tune on dyno---blow up on the street!!!

Originally posted by kwiktsi


I agree, HOWEVER- this guy didn't have squat for fans, so we couldn't copy the "real world 60+mph wind" going through the IC, radiator and engine compartment either :)..

The first run was the closest to real #'s for my car because it was hammered all the way to the dyno and then driven right up without even being turned off :). It was a good simulation of what the car would do after sitting at a light and then smoking the Mustang next to you :).
Joe :eek: :eek:

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by nobody
just want to make sure! knows a lot of people will let the car sit for 11/2 hour, then do a run, and use that number for promo!! but I usually only use a small blue fan on the dyno, as the Dynojet doesn't have much of a load....that why tune on dyno---blow up on the street!!!

:eek: :eek:

I see it ALL the time- like you said for promo reasons!! I could have let my car sit until about 11pm when it got to low 60's and the motor, IC, turbo, etc was cold and pull it on barely warmed up and probably show almost 50-60 more, but I wanted practical :). I would like to get a number on a cool night though, I would put $$$ on it that this car makes 30-40 more hp when the temp drops..
Joe

[pdhaudio83]

excellent! just make sure you dont throw a rod!

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by nobody
just want to make sure! knows a lot of people will let the car sit for 11/2 hour, then do a run, and use that number for promo!! but I usually only use a small blue fan on the dyno, as the Dynojet doesn't have much of a load....that why tune on dyno---blow up on the street!!!

:eek: :eek:

Oh yeah- that's why I always say dyno #'s are bullshit when people are shopping for products like CAI's, ground kits, etc. you tell me what gains you want to see and I'll let you see it on a dyno :).

I always said it isn't worth my time and I wouldn't bother to dyno the car- only track tune it, but with all the non-believers and such out there and all the curious ones also, I figured what the hell :).
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by pdhaudio
excellent! just make sure you dont throw a rod!

Damn guys, I am trying not to think about that stuff- you're gonna jinx me :). Seriously though, I think I proved that tuning had a lot to do with it- a lot of people have lost their motors making a lot less power.
Joe

[perfworks]

while your at the shop this week we can talk about some piping if you dont make it yourself

[InsidiousMSP]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


Damn guys, I am trying not to think about that stuff- you're gonna jinx me :). Seriously though, I think I proved that tuning had a lot to do with it- a lot of people have lost their motors making a lot less power.
Joe

Awesome numbers. What are you using to tune it?

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by InsidiousMSP


Awesome numbers. What are you using to tune it?

Butt dyno :).. I have no electronics in the car at all. I have my FP reduction kit to drop the pressure since the car is way to rich (over 10:1 AF stock- I am 13:1 on 116 now), my prototype FCD to elimintate fuel cut, colder plugs and just basic stuff (experimenting with plug gaps, heat ranges, etc.).. I am waiting to see how much boost I can get away with without detonating once the 116 is gone and I have straight pump- it used to be 11 psi on a cool night with the stock PLATINUM (who puts platinum in a turbo car anyway- MAZDA???) plugs. I am hoping for 13-15 with the colder plugs- I will know in the next few days..

The 116 coupled with the colder plugs is what made the car handle that psi without detonating. I will do some pump gas runs once the tank is pure pump gas. Actually, it probably won't be much worse since the turbo is pretty ineffecient (sp?) up that high and it dropped to 14 or so anyway. If I can handle 14 on pump, it may make about the same power. Later.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Anybody here want to let me know how to put a vid clip up?? :)
Joe

[InsidiousMSP]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
Anybody here want to let me know how to put a vid clip up?? :)
Joe

Do you know how to get it from your camera to your computer? If not, what camera model do you have?

If you do have it on your computer, e-mail it to me, jeff@streetimage.net and I'll host it so you can post it here.

[AGR]

Originally posted by InsidiousMSP


Do you know how to get it from your camera to your computer? If not, what camera model do you have?

If you do have it on your computer, e-mail it to me, jeff@streetimage.net and I'll host it so you can post it here.

Excellent! NEED4SPEED hosted my videos that Corey and I made. My Olympus loads them out as Quick Time; then I converted them to AVI, then; MPEG.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by InsidiousMSP


Do you know how to get it from your camera to your computer? If not, what camera model do you have?

If you do have it on your computer, e-mail it to me, jeff@streetimage.net and I'll host it so you can post it here.

On it's way. If I can get 263 whp out of a "stock" msp, I think I can get my video off my camera :D :D :D . Thanks for helping!!!!
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Here is the link to my blurry ass boost gauge vid :). "these cars can't handle boost" :rolleyes: :D ...
http://www.turbodreamsdvd.com/misc/MOV00379.MPG

thanks Insidious!!!
Joe

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

all praise joe.

[t3ase]

Wow. That literally brought a smile to my face. Beautiful.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by t3ase
Wow. That literally brought a smile to my face. Beautiful.

:D

[chwood]

Originally posted by AFaceInTheCrowd
all praise joe.

(bow)

Damn straight

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by AFaceInTheCrowd
all praise joe.

How about "all pitch in to Joe's 'when he blows his motor' fund"? :D :D :D

It would cost you a lot less than if you tried this on your own and blew your motor :D lol.
Joe

[LinuxRacr]

Time to link this to the Subaru guys....to mess with their minds..:D

[Big Mike]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


Butt dyno :).. I have no electronics in the car at all. I have my FP reduction kit to drop the pressure since the car is way to rich (over 10:1 AF stock- I am 13:1 on 116 now), my prototype FCD to elimintate fuel cut, colder plugs and just basic stuff (experimenting with plug gaps, heat ranges, etc.).. I am waiting to see how much boost I can get away with without detonating once the 116 is gone and I have straight pump- it used to be 11 psi on a cool night with the stock PLATINUM (who puts platinum in a turbo car anyway- MAZDA???) plugs. I am hoping for 13-15 with the colder plugs- I will know in the next few days..



I think you're going a bit risky running at 13:1 AFR at full load. Most turbo cars absolute worst case run 12.5:1, with the kind of boost your pushing out of that little T25 I'd be shooting for 12:1 or richer...

[LinuxRacr]

Originally posted by LinuxRacr
Time to link this to the Subaru guys....to mess with their minds..:D

Here it is: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4156782#post4156782
(laugh)

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Big Mike


I think you're going a bit risky running at 13:1 AFR at full load. Most turbo cars absolute worst case run 12.5:1, with the kind of boost your pushing out of that little T25 I'd be shooting for 12:1 or richer...

It was a bit leaner than wanted, but that was on 116 (I always tune a bit leaner on race fuel anyway) and at a higher psi than the car normally sees. I want to hook up a wideband to see what it does daily on "street tune" and pump gas, I'm sure it is at least 12:1- my o2 voltages are higher on lower boost and pump. I have only had o2 voltages and feel to go by until the dyno. I have to get around to putting my EGT in it too- that will help a lot on the street for tuning..
Joe
PS- That was 19 psi max and dropping to about 14 by redline. The turbo probably isn't doing much good over 16 psi though, I just wanted to try to get some comparisons.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Big Mike


I think you're going a bit risky running at 13:1 AFR at full load. Most turbo cars absolute worst case run 12.5:1, with the kind of boost your pushing out of that little T25 I'd be shooting for 12:1 or richer...

BTW- Nice RX7 :). I miss my 94 :(.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by LinuxRacr


Here it is: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4156782#post4156782
(laugh)

Damn boy, I hope you didn't just start a feud :).. I am curious though :).
Joe

[LinuxRacr]

You know I have nothing but love for the Scoobies...I just wanted them to see this out of morbid curiosity....:D

[Big Mike]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


It was a bit leaner than wanted, but that was on 116 (I always tune a bit leaner on race fuel anyway) and at a higher psi than the car normally sees. I want to hook up a wideband to see what it does daily on "street tune" and pump gas, I'm sure it is at least 12:1- my o2 voltages are higher on lower boost and pump. I have only had o2 voltages and feel to go by until the dyno. I have to get around to putting my EGT in it too- that will help a lot on the street for tuning..
Joe
PS- That was 19 psi max and dropping to about 14 by redline. The turbo probably isn't doing much good over 16 psi though, I just wanted to try to get some comparisons.

Yeah race fuel is much more forgiving. The DSM guys do love to beat the crap out of their T25s so I'm sure it will live for a while... Just tryin to look out for other members of the Mazda family :)

[Big Mike]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


BTW- Nice RX7 :). I miss my 94 :(.
Joe

Thanks :) It's "under the knife" at the moment...should be fun when its done

[scapamouche]

Great numbers, but would it be possible for you to do a more real world set as well?

Most of us are NOT going to go for the big boost, but more of the 10psi... Do you have any numbers squirreled away for THAT kind of boost? That might help your sales even more...

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by scapamouche
Great numbers, but would it be possible for you to do a more real world set as well?

Most of us are NOT going to go for the big boost, but more of the 10psi... Do you have any numbers squirreled away for THAT kind of boost? That might help your sales even more...

I am going to try to set up another day where we have more time for more pulls on pump gas. I already had the 116 in my tank, so I just went for the big #'s. I will do some more pulls on pump gas down the road, just don't know if I am going to drop the boost as low as 10 psi for the runs :). I am tuning my car and going backwards would set me back a bit :). Actually, xsivspd did around a 10 psi pull with exhaust and did mid-220's (from memory) and turbomattyp did 217whp@9 psi before his motor let loose (unrelated to the 9 psi).. Stock they are dynoing in the mid 130's. There's your practical #'s :)..
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Big Mike


Yeah race fuel is much more forgiving. The DSM guys do love to beat the crap out of their T25s so I'm sure it will live for a while... Just tryin to look out for other members of the Mazda family :)

Actually, Robert from Forced Performance said the GT25R on the MSP is a bit better flowing than the T25 on the mitsu. Don't know for sure, but I haven't seen many T-25 DSM's hit the 100 mph mark with minor mods, so it may be true- I dunno (dunno) .
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by LinuxRacr
You know I have nothing but love for the Scoobies...I just wanted them to see this out of morbid curiosity....:D

Hahahah!!!! That's just wrong :).
Joe

[Big Mike]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


Actually, Robert from Forced Performance said the GT25R on the MSP is a bit better flowing than the T25 on the mitsu. Don't know for sure, but I haven't seen many T-25 DSM's hit the 100 mph mark with minor mods, so it may be true- I dunno (dunno) .
Joe

Iiiinteresting, if the GT25R is the correct model designation I'd assume it means the MSP uses a GT Ballistic Gen 3 turbo, which is a VERY nice turbo, should decimate a standard T25.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Big Mike


Iiiinteresting, if the GT25R is the correct model designation I'd assume it means the MSP uses a GT Ballistic Gen 3 turbo, which is a VERY nice turbo, should decimate a standard T25.

Robert says GT25R and that there are several variations- like saying you have a T3- there are a ton of different T3 configurations. I have read "Garret T25 ball bearing turbo" though, so I am torn. He wanted the # to run it, but the Garret plate has a Mazda specefic # on it :(. I can send him mine to measure up to see what wheels and such, but I can't be without my car right now. I am assuming by my #'s (hp and track) that it has to be a step above a standard T25, so I believe Robert, but I just don't know 100%.
Joe

[AGR]

11 psi, 3" exhaust, Joe P. FPR kit, stock air box- 14.2@100
18 psi- 263.5 whp, 244 ft-lbs

Unreal Joe! I gotta tell ya; I'm sitting back just observing (and muttering to myself)

If it all holds together; I might like to crank up to 12psi.... But hell; I'm really liking 9+psi. Maybe I'm just more easily amused. (rofl)

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by AGR#7
11 psi, 3" exhaust, Joe P. FPR kit, stock air box- 14.2@100
18 psi- 263.5 whp, 244 ft-lbs

Unreal Joe! I gotta tell ya; I'm sitting back just observing (and muttering to myself)

If it all holds together; I might like to crank up to 12psi.... But hell; I'm really liking 9+psi. Maybe I'm just more easily amused. (rofl)

12 psi won't work on pump gas in "stock" form :)..
Joe

[AGR]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


12 psi won't work on pump gas in "stock" form :)..
Joe

awwwwwww ok.

[InsidiousMSP]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


12 psi won't work on pump gas in "stock" form :)..
Joe

What needs to be done for 12psi? Just the colder plugs & no cats?

[MemphisRacer]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


Oh yeah- that's why I always say dyno #'s are bullshit when people are shopping for products like CAI's, ground kits, etc. you tell me what gains you want to see and I'll let you see it on a dyno :).

I always said it isn't worth my time and I wouldn't bother to dyno the car- only track tune it, but with all the non-believers and such out there and all the curious ones also, I figured what the hell :).
Joe

AMEN BROTHA!!!!!! Excellent numbers, you have made us proud (2thumbs) Let me know when you are ready with that MAF unit, I want one!!!:D

[LinuxRacr]

(laugh) I did it agian....
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1267384#post1267384

and

http://www.tsog.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=29848#29848

and

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201256

:D

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by InsidiousMSP


What needs to be done for 12psi? Just the colder plugs & no cats?

For starters :). I will know more as I get more time in on pump fuel. Unfortunately, there has been race fuel in my car since I did the FCD and colder plugs, so I have no way to let you guys know what is acheivable on pump yet. It is getting low and I should be getting gas in the next couple days.
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by MemphisRacer


AMEN BROTHA!!!!!! Excellent numbers, you have made us proud (2thumbs) Let me know when you are ready with that MAF unit, I want one!!!:D
The FCD is ready. I will probably put a post up today accepting pre paid orders. There actually turned out to be an easier method then we were originally trying to tackle. We were looking to do it based on throttle posiston, RPM, etc. and it would have been over $200 by the time it was done!! I found a much easier way with resistors and a boost sensor that helped keep it in the original price range :). It works like a champ, still has a preset value to drop the MAF reading a touch for a bit smoother cruising and once it is activated, it will push the fuel cut threshold out of most of our range!! I hit cut ONCE at 21-22 psi when it was about 65 outside!!!!
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by LinuxRacr
(laugh) I did it agian....
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1267384#post1267384

and

http://www.tsog.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=29848#29848

and

http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201256

:D

Great, now when I blow it up the whole world will know and I will get about a billion "I told you so's" instead of just a dozen :).
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by MemphisRacer


AMEN BROTHA!!!!!! Excellent numbers, you have made us proud (2thumbs) Let me know when you are ready with that MAF unit, I want one!!!:D

Here it is- taking orders now!!!
http://www.msprotege.com/vbb225/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23353

Joe

[Antoine]

18psi is NUCLEAR style boost for the msp...brave man...you definitely have both balls ;)

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Antoine
18psi is NUCLEAR style boost for the msp...brave man...you definitely have both balls ;)

:D :D :D


The race fuel is why it was able to do it though, pump gas would have blown the thing to pieces!!!
Joe

[LinuxRacr]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


Great, now when I blow it up the whole world will know and I will get about a billion "I told you so's" instead of just a dozen :).
Joe

No pressure...:D

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

haha, notice that joe said "WHEN i blow it up" and not IF he does... haha!!! :D

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by AFaceInTheCrowd
haha, notice that joe said "WHEN i blow it up" and not IF he does... haha!!! :D
Yeah- Nick (perfworks) got a kick out of that the first time I spoke with him. My car had like 100 miles on it and I was telling him what my plans were for it *when* it blows up and asking if he had a spare block :).
Joe

[Kooldino]

Joe, 2 things...

1-Don't you think 19psi is a bit out of the efficiency range of the T25? Do us all a favor and find the efficiency maps, calculate the CFM you're running, and see where it lies.

2-Now being what you just put down with all the mods you have...do you think that the dyno on the car from canada on what...9psi where it put down 220+HP w/ exhaust is a little high?

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Kooldino
Joe, 2 things...

1-Don't you think 19psi is a bit out of the efficiency range of the T25? Do us all a favor and find the efficiency maps, calculate the CFM you're running, and see where it lies.

2-Now being what you just put down with all the mods you have...do you think that the dyno on the car from canada on what...9psi where it put down 220+HP w/ exhaust is a little high?
I think 19 is probably too high, I have tried to get maps and cannot find any so far. I would say 16 honesty. I do plan on a water/alky injection soon so then even if 19 is creating a lot of hot air, as long as it is still moving more air the Alky will cool the charge and make it a bit more effecient up there :).

It is hard to compare my car to the one from Canada- he had a full downpipe- which will make a big difference at higher psi/flow and was running pump gas- pump gas will make more power than race fuel due to the faster burn, however it is the detonation prevention from race fuel that will allow you to push things harder, thus make more power from boost, timing, compression, etc.. Equal cars at a safe pump gas PSI- the pump car wil make more hp. So that being said, his numbers are entirely believable :).. I think he also had a 10-11 psi or so peak settling to 9- he just went with the 9 to make it easier- you know how boards are- if he said peak of 10-11 settling at 9 everyone would get on his case saying he was running 10 psi :)..

Hell even turbomatty did 217 at 9 psi and who knows the condition of his motor when he did :).. He may even have the stock DP and exhaust- he would have to chime in here :).. 220+ on pump gas is realistic. I may have made more hp at a lower boost, I may have made more at a hgher psi- this is still all a big experiment- no one knows for sure :).. There are so many misconceptions out there that I am just doing it all on my own and seeing what it will do and how it does it :).
Joe

[Lawerence]

What is the Joe P FPR kit?
Sorry if I missed it.

BTW very nice numbers.

[LinuxRacr]

Here it is: http://mazdamp3.com/vbb225/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20809&highlight=FPR+Kit

[TURBO3WAGON]

Hey Joe, great power gains! I know the colder plugs would help when running higher boost levels. I have just purchased a 5speed Lexus SC300 and have reserved a Supra front cap. I’m gonna go it man, 2JZ-GTE & 6speed in my Lexus. Anyways, nice numbers on the speed. Congrats!!

(boobs) (drinks) (boobs)

[ForceMP3]

nice

[NoahFex]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


Hell even turbomatty did 217 at 9 psi and who knows the condition of his motor when he did :).. He may even have the stock DP and exhaust- he would have to chime in here :).. 220+ on pump gas is realistic. I may have made more hp at a lower boost, I may have made more at a hgher psi- this is still all a big experiment- no one knows for sure :).. There are so many misconceptions out there that I am just doing it all on my own and seeing what it will do and how it does it :).
Joe

FWIW and sorry to bring up an old thread but I did 212hp/233tq on 9psi on the stock FS motor.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by NoahFex
FWIW and sorry to bring up an old thread but I did 212hp/233tq on 9psi on the stock FS motor.

Nice car!! Hopefully there are less doubters now than there were when this first was posted though, impressive #'s none the less :)..
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by NoahFex
FWIW and sorry to bring up an old thread but I did 212hp/233tq on 9psi on the stock FS motor.

Just a question after reading your info- do you plan on building the motor with lower compression and running more boost? That turbo is a bit on the big side for a stock motor and low boost. What RPM's are you turning? You have a LOT more there with a stronger motor, less compression and higher RPM's I would say :).
Joe

[NoahFex]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
Just a question after reading your info- do you plan on building the motor with lower compression and running more boost? That turbo is a bit on the big side for a stock motor and low boost. What RPM's are you turning? You have a LOT more there with a stronger motor, less compression and higher RPM's I would say :).
Joe

We are looking into our options right now. The motor is still being pulled apart and funds are still being raised. No doubt i'll keep the board updated. I am actually looking into buying a blown up or totalled MSP right now to fix up, so if I can find one, the probe will be rebuild stock, and sold for funds.

[acelesson]

Ill be hearing you post in a week that your MSP engine has blown up, and youll be asking us why did it happen.

The MSP engine cant handle that much boost man, your lucky it didnt shit out on you on the Dynometer.

Eiether that, or your story is complete B.S.

[GAspeedProtege]

Have you been paying attention to what Kwiktsi has been doing or are you just trolling over his posts?

[NoahFex]

Originally posted by GAspeedProtege
Have you been paying attention to what Kwiktsi has been doing or are you just trolling over his posts?

Are you speaking to me?

[GAspeedProtege]

No, accelson.

[Dr.Sound]

Originally posted by acelesson
Ill be hearing you post in a week that your MSP engine has blown up, and youll be asking us why did it happen.

The MSP engine cant handle that much boost man, your lucky it didnt shit out on you on the Dynometer.

Eiether that, or your story is complete B.S.
who the hell are u?

[ThrillRide]

[QUOTE]Ill be hearing you post in a week that your MSP engine has blown up, and youll be asking us why did it happen.The MSP engine cant handle that much boost man, your lucky it didnt shit out on you on the Dynometer.[Eiether that, or your story is complete B.S./QUOTE]

what dillweed makes a post like that?! only a few posts and probably doesn't even know what and FS is.

[doggman]

hey i dont know what an "FS" is and i dont consider myself someone who would post a comment like that, man gotta have faith.

[low_psi]

haha, trolls coming into our hood.

fyi- the engine code for the 2.0L proteges, also used in the probes and non v6 mx6(i think) is FS-DE.

[kwiktsi]

Man, everytime this thread gets brought back up, it makes for some interesting entertainment :).

Noah- I think you have yet to even tap the potential of your setup!! With the proper tuning and supporting mods, it should be a fun little monster :).
Joe

[Emode]

Originally posted by acelesson
Ill be hearing you post in a week that your MSP engine has blown up, and youll be asking us why did it happen.

The MSP engine cant handle that much boost man, your lucky it didnt shit out on you on the Dynometer.

Eiether that, or your story is complete B.S.

id say thats pretty much impossible seeing as joe's car has been sold for around half a year.

but who knows(bird)

[NoahFex]

Originally posted by mx3ownzj00
haha, trolls coming into our hood.

fyi- the engine code for the 2.0L proteges, also used in the probes and non v6 mx6(i think) is FS-DE.

Yes the FS series motor was found in the:
MX-6
Probe
Protege
626

The FS-ZE variant was the Japanese-only version with an extra ~50hp and was found only in the 97 MX-6 IIRC (maybe some Japanese 626's had it too)

[NoahFex]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
Man, everytime this thread gets brought back up, it makes for some interesting entertainment :).

Noah- I think you have yet to even tap the potential of your setup!! With the proper tuning and supporting mods, it should be a fun little monster :).
Joe

kwiktsi, since I am lacking a proper garage, I am going to be taking my project to a local shop who will do a full bottom-end rebuild for $500. I then need $899 for a performance rebuild kit (forged pistons, HP bearings, copper head gasket etc etc...) and $720 for forged rods. My fully rebuild head should be arriving next week. I'm aiming for all motor 14's then i'll add the boost again. :)

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by NoahFex
kwiktsi, since I am lacking a proper garage, I am going to be taking my project to a local shop who will do a full bottom-end rebuild for $500. I then need $899 for a performance rebuild kit (forged pistons, HP bearings, copper head gasket etc etc...) and $720 for forged rods. My fully rebuild head should be arriving next week. I'm aiming for all motor 14's then i'll add the boost again. :)

That sounds cheap for the rebuild- I'd be leary of it. Balancing alone by a reputable machine shop is around half that- even more in some cases.

Other than that, the only "flaw" I see is the "all motor 14 sec" comment followed by adding the boost. If you tune and aim for one setup, then go boosted- it is two totally different setups. If you want 14's on motor, it would take more compression than the turbo setup, different cam profile, etc :).. I would build it for boost and run it with boost. Otherwise even if you run the same motor and such, you'll still be completely tuning the thing twice :).
Joe

[DiscreetSpeed]

Originally posted by Dr.Sound
who the hell are u?
yes indeed who is this guy/girl?

[NoahFex]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
That sounds cheap for the rebuild- I'd be leary of it. Balancing alone by a reputable machine shop is around half that- even more in some cases.

Other than that, the only "flaw" I see is the "all motor 14 sec" comment followed by adding the boost. If you tune and aim for one setup, then go boosted- it is two totally different setups. If you want 14's on motor, it would take more compression than the turbo setup, different cam profile, etc :).. I would build it for boost and run it with boost. Otherwise even if you run the same motor and such, you'll still be completely tuning the thing twice :).
Joe

I've done this before ;)
The shop I am going to get the rebuild form is next door to my shop which is a performance shop. They do deals with us since we give them deals on parts.

Even though I am boosting, I am still getting 9.5:1 pistons. I want instant power off the line to make the car fairly streetable. Lexan glass all around and a fiberglass front end is going to drop the weight enough to get it into 14's.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by NoahFex
I've done this before ;)
The shop I am going to get the rebuild form is next door to my shop which is a performance shop. They do deals with us since we give them deals on parts.

Even though I am boosting, I am still getting 9.5:1 pistons. I want instant power off the line to make the car fairly streetable. Lexan glass all around and a fiberglass front end is going to drop the weight enough to get it into 14's.

Tough to tune the higher compression on pump gas, but it will work if tuned properly. Lower compression and more boost will make more hp and be easier to tune, just won't give you the bottom end punch that is nice to have in a street car like the higher compression will.
Joe

[acelesson]

how the hell am I a troll? Im stating the painfully obvious fact. You people have stated that the reason why your cars have blown up is because of too much boost.

Some of you need to stop whining everytime someone makes a TRUE negative fact about your cars.

[Mike R]

Originally posted by acelesson
how the hell am I a troll? Im stating the painfully obvious fact. You people have stated that the reason why your cars have blown up is because of too much boost.

Some of you need to stop whining everytime someone makes a TRUE negative fact about your cars.

hmm guess you haven't read much have you...most of the ones I've read about were from people turning too high rpm and letting off causing rod stretch and failure.

[DiscreetSpeed]

yeah i dont go past 6 grand when shifting.

[ThrillRide]

what about the 2 that poped that were stock? hmm...

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Mike R
hmm guess you haven't read much have you...most of the ones I've read about were from people turning too high rpm and letting off causing rod stretch and failure.

Is that what is happening? I know that is common in high-hp LT1 (or was it LS1- can't remember) with the crack forged rods. The rods are near bullet proof when it comes to "compression" but tend to explode if they forcefully get stretched- like lifting suddenly at a high RPM at the end of a run and letting the momentum of the car spin the motor. It is the sudden transion from pressure to stretch that makes them fail from what I have heard. I wonder if HEAVY engine breaking will have the same affect :)?
Joe

[Mike R]

From what I've read, yes. That's what's killed most of 'em on the dyno's. Lifting near the rev limit, over 6500-7K. Dunno about engine braking though. I'd think there is a load...but the trnasition from on throttle to off might pop a rod. (dunno)

There was a post about an engine blowing on the dyno at 7300 when the dyno guy lifted.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Mike R
From what I've read, yes. That's what's killed most of 'em on the dyno's. Lifting near the rev limit, over 6500-7K. Dunno about engine braking though. I'd think there is a load...but the trnasition from on throttle to off might pop a rod. (dunno)

There was a post about an engine blowing on the dyno at 7300 when the dyno guy lifted.

Well, that would definetely explain why I never had an ounce of trouble vs. all the popped engines :)... I guess that is where the experience comes in. Funny thing though is I never even think of it, it is just habit to not do that :). Especially on a dyno as heavy as the rollers are!! At the end of my pulls, the clutch simultaneously went to the floor as I gradually lifted.
Joe