Final Review of Azenis on MSP (56K warning)

[scapamouche]

Now that my Azenis are DEAD DEAD DEAD, I thought I'd post up a few pics and give my input about whether they're worth it for the MSP. I had a set of 225/45-17 Azenis on the Stock 17x7 wheels.

I had them for 3 months, with 4000 miles and about 120 autox runs. They gripped very well, although the car tended to understeer more with them than with the stock tires. Below are a couple pictures of the tires after I had them removed.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p63c528f98703b6e53a7ad96dcd3fc42e/fbffd334.jpghttp://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/pd5daf7b5966e4c62c26a622584a0cc42/fbffd269.jpg

I had some significant rubbing issues in both the front and the rear. In back, the driver's side tire rubbed at the tread corner against the plastic shield over the gasoline purge filter assembly at the back of the wheel well. There was also rubbing against the fender lips when the car was heavily loaded (4 people plus weekend bags...) and the road got bumpy at all.

The front was a bit more severe. There was a sharp edge on the passenger side subframe to the rear of the suspension. When the wheel was turned, this edge cut into the corner of the tread block, as shown below. This rubbing was unpleasant and worrying, but not really dangerous since the tread was VERY thick there.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p8b8489dd0b0745ec53aa1707bc0f5d07/fbffd2ad.jpghttp://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/pe03e171dc73fded22bbe396be0cdb1a8/fbffd2fb.jpg

The limited camber available in the front suspension helped make the wear worse on the outer edges, and the overall life shorter.

On a mostly unrelated note, I have now bought a set of race only wheels and tires: Team Dynamics Pro Race 1s in 17x7, 50mm offset with 205/40-17 Kumho Ecsta V700s. I got them from AutoRND, who had them specially drilled in the 5x114.3mm bolt pattern we need...They are about 1.5 inches shorter than the stock rubber, which was another inch smaller than the Azenis. I can feel the improved acceleration with the new tires: they are about 12lbs LIGHTER than the Azenis setup was, and about 2.5inches, or 10% smaller in diameter!
The new wheels are shown below:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p85a70353a7a09708887b685c65690d09/fbffd1c0.jpghttp://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/pbbf8ed2c97b4fa972c05eb6a13dc653f/fbffd148.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p91f43e49e604e48b594c9550d57393f5/fbffd19b.jpg

Holy wheelgap, Batman!!
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/pd5982b2991637bb23b5adaa7577f80e8/fbffd17f.jpghttp://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p1781eb2cac283abb6125352331875b2d/fbffd23d.jpg

[rowan]

BADASS !!! Maybe I should rethink my plan for 15's . hehehe

How do those Ecstas sit ... since they are measured for a 7.5" wide rim.

[scapamouche]

They seem to fit great. No rubbing, obviously. LOTS OF WHEELGAP!!!!

15's would probably be fine. I think the 17" Azenis are too big for the MSP, but a set of 215/45-16s or 205/50-15s would fit fine...

[SuperSpud]

wait whoa.. you are saying azenis fit differently? or what? I was planning on getting them for my next tire... 215-45-17,, the stock tire size... will they rub or somthing? I wouldnt see why they would be any different than any other tire..

[Option]

Originally posted by SuperSpud
wait whoa.. you are saying azenis fit differently? or what? I was planning on getting them for my next tire... 215-45-17,, the stock tire size... will they rub or somthing? I wouldnt see why they would be any different than any other tire..

Every tire type is different and the numbers are only a "ballpark estimate."

[MSP Pro]

Price on the Team Dynamics wheels? Extra for drilling? Do you think the drilling will reduce the strength for track days? I'm sure it's going to work well for autox, but I'm not sure I want to trust it at 100+ mph....

Thanks for the info.

PS: Did you consider the OZ Superleggera? It's 15.2#, but only 45mm offset so it needs a set of spacers. $280 ea at Tire Rack.

[melicha8]

Are those tires mounted backwards? V700's are unidirectional I thought

[scapamouche]

I think Rishie is asking $650 for a set of these wheels.

The OZ would not be legal for me. I need AT LEAST an offset of +49. I'm a bit concerned about the double drilling, but it looks like they did a professional job and I don't see any stress risers. Time will tell, of course...

You would need a "Negative displacement" spacer to make the OZs work: The offset would need to me moved towards the OUTSIDE of the wheel, where the hub of the rim is. I know someone who would gladly sell me a set, considering how hard they are to make (get the picture yet ;) )

The only way to make that work is to machine the wheels. I wasn't interested in paying $100 per rim more than I did, THEN have to get them machined...

[scapamouche]

Originally posted by melicha8
Are those tires mounted backwards? V700's are unidirectional I thought

They are Directional. They're mounted right too. All of the on-car pictures were taken of the PASSENGER side of the car.

The direction only matters in the wet, anyway. In the dry, it doesn't matter at all...

[Teamzero]

Wow!! That passenger front tire got beat up pretty good by that edge. Is there any way that you could have taken a grinder to the edge to get rid of the rub?

120 autox runs???? I am about at 25!! Do run every event in your state?? :)

[scapamouche]

I DID take a grinder to the sharp edge, once I knew about it. It still rubbed there, but no more damage appeared, so the grinding must have done the trick.

As for the runs: I have had ONE (1) autox where I was the only driver. Every other event has had two or more (usually my wife)

On average, I have an event every other weekend, and several of those were 2 day events where the car was doing 6-10 runs per day... They build up QUICK!

For reference purposes, I got over 250 runs out of the Azenis I had on my old car, and when I got rid of them, they had MORE tread left than these did. It seems the MSP is a bit hard on tires...

Actually, one of the few things I will miss abour living in CA is the year round autoxing. I am NOT looking forward to next winter in CT, with snow and no autox for 5+ months (notcool)

[Teamzero]

Hey Scapamouche!
Sorry to be a pain but is there any way that you could photo the areas of rub on the car? I would especially like to know exactly where the front rub occurred and when you grinded.

Wow.. Forgot that the wife drove too! That is alot of autox... :)

Don't even talk to me about winters.... Yuck. I think this last one ws on of the worst that i can remember in the Northeast.

[Logan]

Why didn't you have the Azenis turned over halfway through the tread life?
ie right side tire moves to left side wheel so the inside of the tire is now the outside... Evens tread wear, lengthens life...
I'll do that with my V700's when the time comes.

[low_psi]

good info. i've got about 750miles on my set plus 14runs and my still look almost new. its time to find more autox's!

[scapamouche]

Originally posted by Logan
Why didn't you have the Azenis turned over halfway through the tread life?
ie right side tire moves to left side wheel so the inside of the tire is now the outside... Evens tread wear, lengthens life...
I'll do that with my V700's when the time comes.

Look at the pictures: there is NO tread wear to even out. I would agree that the outsides were in worse shape, but certainly not enough to make a swap worthwhile.

I've also had mixed results with that in the past: On an older set of Azenis, I swapped them inside to outside, and the grip wasn't as secure. The Azenis is asymmetrical, not unidirectional, so the inside is not the same as the outside like the V700s.

[ehwal]

Weren't the Azenis 225's as opposed to 215's fitted stock on the MSP.

Even though both tires are 45 series (for those who don't know that # represents aspect ratio, eg, the Azenis tires have 45% of 225 mm of side wall height). So even though both tires are 45's, 45% of 215mm is less than 45% of 225mm, most likely the cause of some of the rubbing issues.

A 225 40 may help with height rub issues but offset may have to be changed to deal with the extra 10 mm width.

I'm sure most of you already know this but some may not.

[scapamouche]

Not only are the Azenis RATED as 10mm wider, but they tend to run wide! My 225s were OVER AN INCH WIDER THAN THE STOCK TIRES. Both of which contribute to the rubbing.

If the Azenis were made in a 215/45 or 225/40, I definitely would have gotten them instead. Unfortunately, there are only 6 sizes TOTAL in the US, and the smaller 17" tire is the 225/45...

[rowan]

I'll do that with my V700's when the time comes.


Can't do that with Victoracers.

[MSP Pro]

Yes, you can. It turns out Kumho V700s aren't uni-directional after all, in spite of what's molded on the sidewalls. See Kumho's tech section on the Tire Rack web site.

[rowan]

Victoracers are asymmetrical.

[dmitrik4]

there are TWO tires named "V700." the V700 Victoracer, which is asymmetrical, and the Ecsta V700, which is symmetrical.

when you say "V700," you need to specify, people! ;)

scapa, good choice. wheelgap never slowed anyone down...good luck with 'em.

no autoX for 5 months? HA! Philly region starts their winter series in January...come on down for an event or three. the lot's nice, the crowds are small and the competition is tough (but not as tough as the summer series.;) ). and no sunburn.

[tekkie]

hmm... I have a set of team dynamics 17x7 from my sunfire I think the bolt pattern is 5 x 110, not sure though, I wonder how much it would cost to get the pattern changed, anyone in Toronto know where to get that done??? I guess I better check the offset as well because its probably not right