77 Horsepower!

[xsivspd]

Magnusmotorsports.com has....
the Mazdaspeed and just returned from the dynometer in Scarborough Ontario last night to record:
1st run: 203 WHP fuel-cut gallore,
2nd run: 223 WHP,
3rd run: 221 WHP.

In this months modified magazine, MSP has a baseline of 146 hp and 151 ft/lbs of tq.

That is a gain over stock WHEEL horsepower shown by:
77 horsepower.

Modifications completed:
Magnusmotorsports.com: 3 inch turboback exhaust
OSOFastracing.com: MBC set to 9 PSI
K&N: custom elbow and cone filter

The impact of additional flow courtesy of the exhaust was considerable. All that is needed to complete the package is a FMIC.
I will post the graph of the dyno once I have it scanned.
The numbers speak for themselves, I do not.

[falkofire]

wow...thats some pretty good gains outta the msp...I am surprised myself

[perfworks]

good job now imagine what you can do with a piggy back!;)

[tekkie]

jesus christ thats nuts, thanks for the info, now I know what my next mod will be :)

[1sty]

And this is with T25 turbo unmodified?

I have to be honest here in that I smell total BULLSHIT!

Terry, running an MP3 with a full 3" exhuast, no cats, links management system, and a G16 turbo, not a tiny T25 was barely running that at 8 PSI!

[kwiktsi]

Thank you F*&king THANK YOU!!!

You mean you *didn't* have a CAI on the car?? WOW- IMAGINE THE POWER THEN!!!!!

I try to tell you guys over and over.... There are your damn dyno numbers....
Joe
PS- This just made my otherwise shitty day :)....

[tekkie]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH
And this is with T25 turbo unmodified?

I have to be honest here in that I smell total BULLSHIT!

Terry, running an MP3 with a full 3" exhuast, no cats, links management system, and a G16 turbo, not a tiny T25 was barely running that at 8 PSI!

I admit that it sounds outrageous but I will be happy if I get half of that :D

1st run: 203 WHP fuel-cut gallore,
2nd run: 223 WHP,
3rd run: 221 WHP.

what do you mean here? did you not get fuel cut on the other runs or did they do something to get around it?

[Ryan]

no shit, give me link to that turbo back, its mine next payperiod hehe

[YP5 Toronto]

Just to give you guys some info....Magnus Motorsports is extremely well respected in the racing world. they are worlds fastest 2G AWD Eagle Talon and are not bull $hitters..

[03Speed]

how in the f@ckin hell can an exhaust, 2 psi & an intake aid 77 whp. I gotta see the dyno sheet for this one. If this is true i know what im buyin next!!!

[1sty]

Not saying its BS just being sceptical!

[RuggedMazda]

The numbers sound great...
Is there a dyno sheet you can scan or something
just to totally confirm for us??
Not saying this is bullshit or anything really,
I just would love to see the dyno sheet
so that I can do all that's in my power to
come up with the money for this...
Thanks & again don't take it the wrong way....

[kwiktsi]

2psi? I know my car was only 5 stock so that is a 4 psi increase.. 4 PSI= anywhere from 32-40 HP *usually* plus the exhaust and K&N adding more air to a pig rich fuel mixture. What part of this is not believable? Magnus does not bullshit..
Joe

[03Speed]

sorry dont know why i typed 2, my cars holding 5 psi too. Its just hard to believe that these little modifications added 77 hp. Im sure that mangus doesnt bullshit, i just want to see a dyno sheet.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by xsivspd
Magnusmotorsports.com has....
the Mazdaspeed and just returned from the dynometer in Scarborough Ontario last night to record:
1st run: 203 WHP fuel-cut gallore,
2nd run: 223 WHP,
3rd run: 221 WHP.


Why was there fuel cut on your first run? What did you do to fix it on runs 2 and 3?


Modifications completed:
Magnusmotorsports.com: 3 inch turboback exhaust
OSOFastracing.com: MBC set to 9 PSI
K&N: custom elbow and cone filter


So they are claiming that an INTAKE, EXHAUST and TWO measely extra psi netted 77 additional HP?? I hate to have to sound like a tool, but it does sound a little fishy. The 2 psi may be good for another 15whp or so. Hell, let's even say 20whp for grins. A 3" exhaust may get you another 15whp on that car if you ditch the cats. Intake has show around a 15whp gain, but that varies on the intake. So 15+15+20=50whp. And even 50whp sounds a tad generous...but no biggie. Either way, 50whp is a far cry from 77whp. 27whp difference. Sounds like maybe their dyno is a little out of tune. Why didn't they do a baseline before the mods on their own dyno?


The impact of additional flow courtesy of the exhaust was considerable. All that is needed to complete the package is a FMIC.
I will post the graph of the dyno once I have it scanned.
The numbers speak for themselves, I do not.

While the numbers sound nice, I'm a bit skeptical. As nice as it would be for those #'s to be true, I kinda doubt they are. Not saying that the dyno didn't spit out those #'s, but the dyno may be off. Are these numbers "corrected" dyno numbers?

[kwiktsi]

Oh boy here we go...... xsiv- contact me off the board and we can go over some things. Congrats on the numbers, but I don't believe them- maybe 2 whp, you know cuz that's what my boyez Honduh got with the same mods and VTech is as good as a turbo :)..
Joe

[tekkie]

lol @ Joe ;)

[Ryan]

god guys dont you know, there are craploads of things u can do to get exta horsepower, like sticking ur hand out the window will give you 15whp cuz of the downforce and, pulling ur mirrors in will be more areodynamic and having stickers on your car will give you that exta 25 whp. and if your really cool and have window tint thats another 50whp my car is popping trannies left and right so i cant hang my arm out the window no more ;(

[SuperSpud]

whoa whoa whoa whoa.. first,, the K&N cone filter will give you about 5 whp max (according to this months modified mag)... bumping psi to 9,,, a good 20'ish whp.. turbo back,, no clue.. I dont know how restrictive the stock DP and exhaust is...

MAYBE that was crank HP... that would be a little more believable... but still sounds like to much to me...

[SuperSpud]

whoa whoa whoa whoa.. first,, the K&N cone filter will give you about 5 whp max (according to this months modified mag)... bumping psi to 9,,, a good 20'ish whp.. turbo back,, no clue.. I dont know how restrictive the stock DP and exhaust is...

MAYBE that was crank HP... that would be a little more believable... but still sounds like to much to me...

[kwiktsi]

Haha- you know, although I like breaking balls too, you guys are too much :)...

Xsiv- don't worry, let everyone try to catch us later and let their Injen CAI suck your exhaust up for them :).
Joe

[JDM Sam]

ok people pick up a magazine please. turbo dyno shoot out on wrx turbo back. the whole system netted 70 80 hp over baseline stock wrx.4 banger turbo cars benefit more from bolt ons that your 4 banging NA cars. Seeing how the first 3 big power mods should be turbo back exhaust intercooler and boost controller on this car. even recommended in sport compact car review of the top 8 cars under 20k issue.

[03Speed]

im sure you guys know what ur talking about with turbo cars, i dont know shit about them. you guys are the experts. Show me a dyno sheet & prove me wrong. Its just the 77 whp is a lot.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by JDM Sam
ok people pick up a magazine please. turbo dyno shoot out on wrx turbo back. the whole system netted 70 80 hp over baseline stock wrx.4 banger turbo cars benefit more from bolt ons that your 4 banging NA cars. Seeing how the first 3 big power mods should be turbo back exhaust intercooler and boost controller on this car. even recommended in sport compact car review of the top 8 cars under 20k issue.

The most realistic reply so far :).. The only thing- don't use magazine references- it looks bad since most of them are a joke :)...

the only thing I disagree with is the IC replacement as a first mod- K&N, boost and then exhaust.. Oh yeah- and do something about the excessive fuel whether you do it youself or buy my FP reduction kit- that will help a lot up top under boost. The stock IC is good for this point unless you are doing a lot of sustained WOT driving (road racing and such).. This IC is more than adequate for the dinky turbo we have.
Joe

[spoolinmp3]

77whp??(hmm)
Ok I was directed to this thread via PM.ok people pick up a magazine please. turbo dyno shoot out on wrx turbo back. the whole system netted 70 80 hp over baseline stock wrx.4 banger turbo cars benefit more from bolt ons that your 4 banging NA cars.
True however we are not mag racing here. I know for sure that you will not get 80hp from an exhaust on a WRX. And yes F/I cars have much more potential but lets be realistic here:wtf: So they are claiming that an INTAKE, EXHAUST and TWO measely extra psi netted 77 additional HP?? I hate to have to sound like a tool, but it does sound a little fishy. The 2 psi may be good for another 15whp or so. Hell, let's even say 20whp for grins. A 3" exhaust may get you another 15whp on that car if you ditch the cats. Intake has show around a 15whp gain, but that varies on the intake. So 15+15+20=50whp. And even 50whp sounds a tad generous...but no biggie. Either way, 50whp is a far cry from 77whp. 27whp difference. Sounds like maybe their dyno is a little out of tune. Why didn't they do a baseline before the mods on their own dyno?
Kooldino sounds like he is right on point here. That dyno sounds like it needs re callibrating. And the way Dana is adding up the #'s cannot be done as well. If you have an exhaust yielding an additional 10whp and an intake yielding an additional 10whp when combined you wil probably get 12-14whp max not 20.
So you figure 2 more psi of boost, an intake and exhaust will give you about 25whp. That is untuned and not modifying fuel maps ect. This sounds very very very very (you get the point) fishy:bs: MAYBE that was crank HP... that would be a little more believable... but still sounds like to much to me...
Agreed;)
I need to see the sheet on this one and we all no dynos can lie;)

[JDM Sam]

check out the other post where some guy got 188 off front mount and cold air extension...

[suttonschinook]

Please someone post the dyno results! I'm sceptical but like someone said before if I get half of that I would be thrilled!

[SuperSpud]

Originally posted by JDM Sam
ok people pick up a magazine please. turbo dyno shoot out on wrx turbo back. the whole system netted 70 80 hp over baseline stock wrx.4 banger turbo cars benefit more from bolt ons that your 4 banging NA cars. Seeing how the first 3 big power mods should be turbo back exhaust intercooler and boost controller on this car. even recommended in sport compact car review of the top 8 cars under 20k issue. 80 hp? get real.. every wrx turbo back dyno I have seen has not even put it over 200 wheel hp.... seeing as how it has 162-165 to the wheels stock, that is only about 16.. I have a magazine (which I cant find right now :() that tests 10 different turbo backs for the wrx.. only 3 put it over 200 whp... peak hp gain of about 20 hp is the highest you will get.. sure there are points on the dyno where you get a little more than that, but nothing even remotly close to 80 hp.....

[SuperSpud]

ok I found the mag... it is the may 2003 issue of turbo mag...

I stand corrected.. in all of the tested turbo backs,, each gained anywhere from 50-65 hp at 3500 rpms... however, the boost was raised to 16.5 psi, ,from the stock 12... the highest peak HP was the kakimoto GT, it gave the wrx 203.8 HP....

[boostisgood]

Ok people, lets not start a flame war here. Let the gentleman show us the dyno sheet. Next, Mags are great for info, but look at all the big ones, (SCI, HCI, Motor trend) they all rated, and judged the MSP differently. What is written cannot be taken as the tuner gospel.

I can truly believe that with the mods this guy has, and with proper "tuning" of the complete system, 200 whp is not hard to reach. I dont have the compressor mapping for our turbo, but have seen that other turbos of comprable size efficient up to 16 PSI. maybe all our tubo needed was to be able to breath.

I understand everyone sceptisizm (sp), but let the guy have a chance to show us the Dyno. :D

also, Joe is right, I have seen my car steady hold 5 psi, and peak to the 7 in higher gears. so there is a 4 psi (remember, most mfrs will give highest numbers consistanly achieved to sell. Just like with the lower end ampliphier's 1000 watts peak, its actually 300 RMS. )

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by spoolinmp3
And the way Dana is adding up the #'s cannot be done as well. If you have an exhaust yielding an additional 10whp and an intake yielding an additional 10whp when combined you wil probably get 12-14whp max not 20.
[/B]

I hear ya, but my point was to be generous and still show how much of a stretch 77whp was.


So you figure 2 more psi of boost, an intake and exhaust will give you about 25whp. That is untuned and not modifying fuel maps ect. This sounds very very very very (you get the point) fishy:bs:
Agreed;)
I need to see the sheet on this one and we all no dynos can lie;)

Amen, brother.

[perfworks]

can someone tell me exactly what his mods are

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by SuperSpud
ok I found the mag... it is the may 2003 issue of turbo mag...

I stand corrected.. in all of the tested turbo backs,, each gained anywhere from 50-65 hp at 3500 rpms... however, the boost was raised to 16.5 psi, ,from the stock 12... the highest peak HP was the kakimoto GT, it gave the wrx 203.8 HP....

Stock psi on a WRX is 14.5 or so.

[SuperSpud]

no,, its 12... 12.1 if you want to be exact, trust me... and it drops dramatically after 5000.....

[perfworks]

Originally posted by perfworks
can someone tell me exactly what his mods are
just wanted to bump my question again:D

[spoolinmp3]

no,, its 12... 12.1 if you want to be exact, trust me... and it drops dramatically after 5000.....
No we have a WRX and it peaks at 14+psi stock

[spoolinmp3]

Perf the car is running 2psi more boost, an intake and exhaust......77whp what?:wtf:

[yashooa]

This is one active thread and no one has gone crazy and turned the torches on. Man this has to be a first. Could it be that us MSP pilots have gotten "Civil?" :D

Joe Im with you I hope this shit is for real cause I would dig that level of power with reversable mods if something horrific happen.
Any who I guess the real test will be on the track. Dyno's are cool but track times are better.

[MSP Chris]

and the dyno sheet is where? Jeez what is hell is going on..? WOW we are in a Mazda forum let the guy post his info. If he dose'nt then someone is lying about their claimed #'s. Not trying to flame but everyone is bickering about stupid crap.

[JDM Sam]

Any who I guess the real test will be on the track. Dyno's are cool but track times are better.

I agree with that one!

[xsivspd]

Thanks to all that replied to this thread.
The dyno results will be posted like the orignal said.
I accept that people are skeptical and that is human nature.
Psychology teaches us that people can always accept mediocrity, but people can never believe in excellence.
This all reminds me when the import drag scene all began:
Headlines all read as time went by:
'14 second 1/4 mile barrier crushed!'
'Can we see 13 broken?'
'11's here we are.'
'TEN SECOND exclusive.'
Now today, we have Shaun Carlson in his modified dodge srt-4 trying to eclipse the 7 second quarter.
What does this teach us?
That with the right parts, tuning, and most importantly - people, anything can be accomplished.
What is the importance of knowledge if it is horded - there is none!
All I, as well as others on this board (ahem... JoeP, Perfworks, Spicy, etc...) are sharing information that helps rather than hinders.

[laptopheaven]

What's that smell? Anyone else smell it?


Honestly, that would be 255-260 HP at the crank if i did my math right.

I think those are crank numbers. 220ish at the crank would yield about 190ish at the wheels.

[kwiktsi]

OK- my last argument here (probably not :) )-

First- most MSP owners I have spoken with all had between 4.5 and 5.5 psi, 9psi is a lot more than a 2psi gain :rolleyes: ..

Second- gee, a full 3" exhaust will provide substantial HP gains over a stock 2-1/4" (or whatever it is) with TWO CATS and a RESONATOR- ESPECIALLY at higher boost levels

Third- while it is no Injen CAI :D , the K&N makes for a nice airflow increase to the turbo, it spools much quicker and it will pull harder up top..

Fourth- someone mentioned something about "not modifying fuel maps"- Hmm, lets see- you have a SHITTY ECU that just dumps fuel above 4500 rpms regardless of airflow or air temp. Adding more airflow to that WILL modify the fuel maps- take a carbureted car and cover half the carb with the car running and then uncover it- notice a difference? Damn, and you didn't even change the "fuel maps" :).. Although it is not a tuned, controllable modification of the maps, it will help greatly..

Also take into consideration the places the two cars were dynoed in addition to the mods.. One in a nice friggin 250 degree oven called California (great weather for an overly rich turbo car :rolleyes: ) the other in that damn freezer called Canada (*GREAT* WEATHER FOR OVERLY RICH TURBO CARS!!). That alone is worth at least 20 WHP- I'd put my $$ on it!!! Now you add the mods to that equation????? Come on guys, maybe it is just the experience difference and I have seen the same results from various turbo cars, but that is not far fetched at all..
Joe

[JDM Sam]

250 hp is going to be easily attained from what i see at this point.

[Swerny]

Thanks for the clarification Joe and XVISV. I hope this is all on the up and up.

I'm interested for sure.

MS MSP #143.

p.s. It's not that cold here...it is June after all ! 17 degrees celsius.

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

woooooo!!! this is truely a great nite for me!!! tonite i found out that orange msp spanked a srt on his t3/t04 and now the magnus exhaust is yielding awesome gains. to top it all off, JOE P. isn't skeptical and sees the numbers as reality or very close to it!!! who sees 300whp?!?!

[kwiktsi]

Hey, I am running with the SRT-4's- where's my "attaboy" :)?
Joe

[kwiktsi]

[i]who sees 300whp?!?! [/B]

Not the rods or the Injen CAI guys, that's for sure :eek: .. Ooooooohhh... I know I will get a "Hey look-(nuts) " for that one :).
Joe

[orng_mazdaspeed]

hey kwiktsi do you have any pics of your K&N air filter set up

[kwiktsi]

No, but I will try to get some tomorrow.. It is a 6" K&N cone and I made a bracket to go from the MAF to the stud on the battery tray (one of the stock box's mounting bolts) to hold it securely. I had to make the bracket- it gave me the opportunity to play with my friends Plasma cutter :).
Joe

[servoeyes]

Dudes...stop picking on us INJEN people, please :D

It's turning into parts-ism in here...this "my part's better than your part" stuff wasn't funny before...still not laughing. I know you're pissed because of supposed know-it-alls, but we all have our own reasons to get it. Other's just like to get defensive about it and don't know where their tongues should stop. Convenience, bling-factor, wads of cash falling out of pockets...whatever. Soon it's gonna turn into "oh...you're just a weekend modder, get outta here" I hope it doesn't come to that...:/

Jsut realized that was a thread jack...oops. Anywho...I'm of the mind that the temp differences and the different dynos, are what's making SUCH a big difference. That's as far as my knowledge goes though...looks good so far, though. Oh...and are their any cats in this system, or is it just straight back all the way?

[boostisgood]

I dont think Joe is saying his stuff is better then the Injen, hell he doesnt even have an intake in the works for the MSP, he is following the basic logic that a true CAI is not that much more beneficial then a SRI is with proper heat shielding.

Thread jacking off, now back to your regularly scheduled, "this is b.s." replies. :D

[servoeyes]

Yeah...I know how Joe's feeling about peeps in here lately...just blowing off...I get it.

As for my non thread jacked portion...what's you say? Any cats on this thing? CEL problems? Ricers trying to hump your car 'cause it looks and moves too well?

[boostisgood]

LMAO (upbum) on the 3 inch exhaust, if someone can fill that hole, look out John Holmes.

Yeah, we wanna know, any CEL issues ?

[kwiktsi]

What's that, I can't hear you over my Injen intake :). Not to mention that whopping 12 hp gain is pushing my car beyond the speed of sound, you'll have to say it again tomorrow for me to hear it today :).. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Hahah.. Just breaking them on you guys :).
Joe

Originally posted by servoeyes
Dudes...stop picking on us INJEN people, please :D

It's turning into parts-ism in here...this "my part's better than your part" stuff wasn't funny before...still not laughing. I know you're pissed because of supposed know-it-alls, but we all have our own reasons to get it. Other's just like to get defensive about it and don't know where their tongues should stop. Convenience, bling-factor, wads of cash falling out of pockets...whatever. Soon it's gonna turn into "oh...you're just a weekend modder, get outta here" I hope it doesn't come to that...:/

Jsut realized that was a thread jack...oops. Anywho...I'm of the mind that the temp differences and the different dynos, are what's making SUCH a big difference. That's as far as my knowledge goes though...looks good so far, though. Oh...and are their any cats in this system, or is it just straight back all the way?

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by boostisgood
LMAO (upbum) on the 3 inch exhaust, if someone can fill that hole, look out John Holmes.

Yeah, we wanna know, any CEL issues ?

You will have a CEL if you remove the cats. O2 simulators have been proven to work on many makes and models, but I have no experience with them on our cars.
Joe

[boostisgood]

Just didnt know if it kicked yet. The second o2 sensor is not seeing what it needs, so the Cel will throw. I wonder what the drivabilty issue will be, and if this is causing his car to run uber pig rich, or cutting fuel for emisssions purposes.

[kwiktsi]

I was told by a Mazda tech that it would be no difference, but I also have heard several things from different people.. I personally noticed absolutely no change in performance when the light was on due to the rear o2.. I just threw a cat on with the new exhaust to keep the car legal. Also- for those like me who end up going with a cat further back than the stock location, I *think* the MSP has an O2 wire extension on it stock, I want to take a look at it and see if it is something we can just buy one more of and extend the O2 wires more without cutting and splicing them like I did...
Joe

[ForceFed]

so one question still has not been answered!If they were only getting 203 HP on the first run because it hit the fuel cut then what did they do to get the extra 20 ponies on the next two pulls?
Did they come up with a fuel cut solution or something!
HMMMMM?????

[arkitek]

I've met xsivspd personally at a recent Mazda meet in Toronto and I can vouch that he's no bullshitter. One of the nicest guys I've met who's passion for excellence in modifying cars is kinda evident. He was nice enough to let me take his MSP out for a spin just to see what that MBC have added. Just sorta handed over the keys without questions, something I'd think twice or 3 times with a stranger somewhat.

But those numbers do look damn good.

I think the Injen would add even more to this in a real world situation. The most benefit I see is that it offers much better flow since it goes straight to the turbo instead of doing a few bends through smaller diameter stock black tubes. The air would be much cooler too also I think as a result. It starts out cool to begin with and not warmed up going through the stock tubes which is very close to the engine itself. The K&N helps but could be better. I've felt how hot the air got near the intake with a K&N when the fan is on blowing all that really hot air from the intercooler. A K&N routed away from the engine, or even better down where the Injen goes, would be much better as a result.
And that's just my 2 cents on the matter.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by ForceFed
so one question still has not been answered!If they were only getting 203 HP on the first run because it hit the fuel cut then what did they do to get the extra 20 ponies on the next two pulls?
Did they come up with a fuel cut solution or something!
HMMMMM?????
Probably turned the boost down 1 psi or so.. Fuel cut will just sporadically keep killing the injectors, so the car will buck each time.. If you are on a dyno, you will never get good numbers becasue of this. If you turn the boost down to just below the FC point, you will be able to get a clean pull through the power band.
Joe
PS- Someone please make this CAI stuff go away, phuleeeeaaassseee make it stop :'( ... It hurts, it hurts :'(:'( :'(

[ForceFed]

Quit talking about the CAI and it may go away!
I for one am all about the product for more than one reason(we have discussed)So if you want it to go away,quit dogging it.
I respect your opinion on it and can see your point of view ,but please respect ours as well!I for one want this for performance reasoning as well as the *BLING* factor at shows!
Thanks,Matt;)

[OutDriveU]

just so you all know. My friend builds engines for the Speedvision Touring car team OPm, who run the 2003 proteges and they get 240hp out of our engines normally aspirated!!! Im going to get info on some parts this weekend at road Atlanta so ill keep you all posted. btw MY FRIEND WHO BUILDS THE ENGINES AGREES WITH Joe that those small changes will gain dramatic boosts in power. So we will see what happens

Shane

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by ForceFed
Quit talking about the CAI and it may go away!
I for one am all about the product for more than one reason(we have discussed)So if you want it to go away,quit dogging it.
I respect your opinion on it and can see your point of view ,but please respect ours as well!I for one want this for performance reasoning as well as the *BLING* factor at shows!
Thanks,Matt;)

Hahahahah....

I understand why you want it, we have discussed that.. However, my opinion on it's performance value stands :).. I just don't want people who turn to this board for advice to think it is going to be the greatest thing for their car and dumping $320 of their hard earned $$$ on it looking for a huge gain when all it will really do is look pretty.. Ask xsivspd what kind of CAI he has on his 230whp car :rolleyes: .... Looks great when you pop the hood- yes. Gets attention when the hood is up, most definately- but you also have to realize who it is that is looking. If you are into the show thing, great. I used to be also a while back- Import Conservative had a million and one cars in it every time I showed!!! However, I have focused my attention on tuning since then.

Shit, 2:30 am and I am still arguing with people about something as retarded as a CAI on a turbo car.. Damn, I'm hard headed- I should just let you guys buy polished turds if you'd like- speaking of turds, when it happens- ask that guy in the Neon that just spanked you what CAI he has :).. I need a life :)..
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by ForceFed
Quit talking about the CAI and it may go away!


Ooohh- just one more.. I am trying to let it go, but I can't- have you seen "Goldmember"? The scene with the Mole where he is trying to refrain from saying something but can't?? Well picture the CAI as a big mole on the face of turbo performance.. Moley, moley, moley...

Sorry, I think I am overtired and delerious right now.. I think the Mikes Hard Lemonade is helping too :).
Joe
Shoot me an IM tomorrow, I am going to sleep finally...

[twiztedjeckel]

you are one funny mofo:D

just chink how much more benefcial the exhaust would be with some tuning. probably another 90rwhp is you ask me:rolleyes:

[TURBO3WAGON]

While I would like to see the Dyno sheet myself, I’m leaning towards Kwiktsi point of view. One major difference between the MSP and the other cars mentioned is that is is a high compression turbo vs Low. In essences gains at typically higher with small mods vs a low compression setup which relies more on higher boost levels to obtain big power gains. Of corse the margin for error when it come to pre-detonation is much smaller with the hi compression turbos, hence the popularity of traditional low compression engines. That my take on this somewhat heated topic.




:cool:

[1sty]

The problem is the turbo can't flow dick for air.
If the turbo used was a T3 or even a better matched T25 then I could believe this no problem.
However, it just isn't possible with only an exhuast and intake and a few PSI more with a tiny turbo.

[boostisgood]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH
The problem is the turbo can't flow dick for air.
If the turbo used was a T3 or even a better matched T25 then I could believe this no problem.
However, it just isn't possible with only an exhuast and intake and a few PSI more with a tiny turbo.

Ill try to find the turbo's flow map today, and how to calculate what gains given with what boost. It was recently in SCI or import2ner about how to figure out to get a certain h.p. But the t-25 is more efficient then what most people think :D this is directly from turbonetics, when i inquired about the t-25 and possible upgrade to the t-28. When asked what I was looking for, Turbgonetics stated that the t-25 was more then efficient enough to flow the air needed to obtain the 200 whp i want. :D

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by xsivspd
I accept that people are skeptical and that is human nature.
Psychology teaches us that people can always accept mediocrity, but people can never believe in excellence.


Eh, I dunno about that. A lot of people WANT to believe that certain things are true, so often, they'll blindly ignore facts as not to hinder their belief.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
OK- my last argument here (probably not :) )-

First- most MSP owners I have spoken with all had between 4.5 and 5.5 psi, 9psi is a lot more than a 2psi gain :rolleyes: ..


I've always seen 7psi or close to it. Is there a thread or something where people reported their PSI levels?


Also take into consideration the places the two cars were dynoed in addition to the mods.. One in a nice friggin 250 degree oven called California (great weather for an overly rich turbo car :rolleyes: ) the other in that damn freezer called Canada (*GREAT* WEATHER FOR OVERLY RICH TURBO CARS!!). That alone is worth at least 20 WHP- I'd put my $$ on it!!!


20whp? I think that's kinda pushing it.
But whatever the case, this is why a baseline dyno should have been done at the same dyno before the mods went on.

[YP5 Toronto]

xsivspd....thank you for posting your results so far.

Which dyno shop did you use in Scarborough?

I think I know which one.....if its the one on Kennedy, they are one of the best in Ontario. This place is constantly busy with all type of people using their facilities....including the Quickest East Coast NA Civic from Ultimate Racing...right down to your home garage tuner....Someone from TOProtege.com had their car dyno'd there also.

This Dyno shop is very professional and they constantly maintain their facilities.

I'll be interesting to see how this pans out....

If you need help posting the dyno sheets let me know...

[JasonH]

You cannot compare Magnusmotorsports.com's 200+hp dyno numbers to the hp numbers in some magazine. You don't even know if they're using the same brand of dyno, let alone how closely the two are calibrated to each other, let alone the differences between the two cars. Without a baseline dyno run from Magnusmotorsports.com we will never know how much of an increase they realized (unless they take the car back to stock and run it then.)

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
[BNot to mention that whopping 12 hp gain is pushing my car beyond the speed of sound, you'll have to say it again tomorrow for me to hear it today :).. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
[/B]

Don't you mean "say it today so I can hear it tomorrow"?
:D :cool: :p ;)

[YP5 Toronto]

Just a shot in the dark...trying to brainstorm....

what if xsivspd and a STOCK MSP went back to the Dyno and both did a few runs each...would that work? Would that assist everyone with understanding the information?

[1sty]

To be the most accurate it would have to be the same car, but that would be better then a magazine dyno result.

[bcbadboy]

Originally posted by xsivspd
Magnusmotorsports.com has....
the Mazdaspeed and just returned from the dynometer in Scarborough Ontario last night to record:
1st run: 203 WHP fuel-cut gallore,
2nd run: 223 WHP,
3rd run: 221 WHP.

In this months modified magazine, MSP has a baseline of 146 hp and 151 ft/lbs of tq.

That is a gain over stock WHEEL horsepower shown by:
77 horsepower.

Modifications completed:
Magnusmotorsports.com: 3 inch turboback exhaust
OSOFastracing.com: MBC set to 9 PSI
K&N: custom elbow and cone filter

The impact of additional flow courtesy of the exhaust was considerable. All that is needed to complete the package is a FMIC.
I will post the graph of the dyno once I have it scanned.
The numbers speak for themselves, I do not.


I believe it. I just boosted my turbo to 12PSI's and added a K & N filter to my car and I had 46whp. If the factory is 141, then the extra 46 gave me 187 which I posted and I think everyone here saw by now on my dyno results. Now all you need is 31whp more. To get that is simple bolt ons. I now it say's that he was at 9psi's but there is not much differance in hp but there is on tourqe.

[YP5 Toronto]

Agreed...I just don't see them putting it back to stock then back to the modified setup....

[1sty]

Originally posted by bcbadboy



I believe it. I just boosted my turbo to 12PSI's and added a K & N filter to my car and I had 46whp. If the factory is 141, then the extra 46 gave me 187 which I posted and I think everyone here saw by now on my dyno results. Now all you need is 31whp more. To get that is simple bolt ons. I now it say's that he was at 9psi's but there is not much differance in hp but there is on tourqe.

You are aware that the MSP knocks at over 10 PSI right?
Even slightly at 10, check tuboge results.

[bcbadboy]

Mine doen't knock at all. I been running mine now over 10 psi's and I have no problems except wasting more gas.

[bcbadboy]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH


You are aware that the MSP knocks at over 10 PSI right?
Even slightly at 10, check tuboge results.

check tuboge results?

where is it?

[Kooldino]

Side note: My ENTIRE turbo setup, intake and FULL exhaust included, probably didn't get my anywhere near 77whp extra.

[Swerny]

If Magnus Motorsports wants to run a baseline Dyno test on a stock MSP, I have one, and i'm in Toronto. I have 7500 kms, so she's broken in.

Let me know when and where if interested.

MS MSP #143

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Kooldino


I've always seen 7psi or close to it. Is there a thread or something where people reported their PSI levels?

[B]

20whp? I think that's kinda pushing it.
But whatever the case, this is why a baseline dyno should have been done at the same dyno before the mods went on.

Just from people contacting me about MBC's and such..

As for the 20whp thing- drive an MSP when it is 60 degrees out and the drive it when it is 90+ then get back to me on the 20 whp difference. I'm sure it is even more, but I wanted to be safe :). On a hot day the thing pulls like a Yugo above 4500, on a cool day it pulls like the same car with a 75 shot on it :).
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Kooldino


Don't you mean "say it today so I can hear it tomorrow"?
:D :cool: :p ;)

Something like that. (silly)
Joe

[TURBO3WAGON]

True! I agree... :D I'm going to spray NOS into my intercooler so the car will dip!


JK :D

[laptopheaven]

Are you still planning on uploading the dyno graphs? I would really like to see them.

Are you taking your time photoshop'in them?

[Logan]

I think he is a responsible employee wherever he works and doesn't take advantage of his internet access...

[SOSPEED]

I dont know about 77hp gain that does sound high. Maybe if you base lined the car stock on the same dyno to see what that dyno would have given you. I had a friend of mine who had his civic dynoed by three different dynos and each dyno gave him different number. there was a 15 hp difference between his lowest and his highest.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by SOSPEED
I dont know about 77hp gain that does sound high. Maybe if you base lined the car stock on the same dyno to see what that dyno would have given you. I had a friend of mine who had his civic dynoed by three different dynos and each dyno gave him different number. there was a 15 hp difference between his lowest and his highest.
Even if for arguments sake, he said- screw it- take 15 hp off that, you guys would then be saying "well, I don't know 62 hp sounds high" Can't win. (bang)

I have seen very similar gains on several types of turbo cars from turbo buicks to DSM's, but no one here believes an MSP can? (uhm)

Maybe we should compare the gains to that of a Honda (ricer) with the same mods, then maybe everyone would be happy to hear- "I just got .0004 hp from my mods- my Type R hauls ass now" instead of real power gains :rolleyes: ...
Joe

[Vicocola]

i just wonder how many hp does he have when it runs at stock boost but with turbo back and K&N...

[Kooldino]

LOL@Joe. Unfortunately Hondas respond to mods a lot better than our cars do. :-(

[TURBO3WAGON]

High compression = less boost to make larger power gains!

(bang) (smash) (bang) (smash)

(bang) (smash) (bang) (smash)

[1sty]

Less boost is only relitive to the volume of air being moved not to mention we aren't a high compression engine, only 9:1.

If this was an S2000 with a T4 these numbers would be believable. However!

ITS A GOD DAMN PROTEGE WITH A TOTALY UNTWEAKABLE ECU, A TINY TURBO CHARGE AND AVERAGE COMPRESSION!
NOT TO MENTION ONLY 140 WHP STOCK!

77 would be very believable on a car already throwing 250whp but not 140. YOU CAN NOT GET A 50% INCREASE IN HORSEPOWER FROM AN EXHUAST, INTAKE AND 2 PSI.
Not in this world or any other!

We have no dyno to prove anything!
There was never a baseline done on the dyno!
We have never been told the major specifics fo the situation!
So at this point via the present story,

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Kooldino
LOL@Joe. Unfortunately Hondas respond to mods a lot better than our cars do. :-(

Huh? Not $$$ for $$$ they don't.. A K&N and exhaust on an MSP (or any turbo car for that matter) will kill the gains you will get with the same things on a Honda. Now if you already take the plunge and put a turbo kit on a Honda, then they seem to handle the boost better and such, but not too different.
Joe

[TURBO3WAGON]

True, the ECU does suck nuts! By the way It's high for a turbo engine. 7.9 is what I'm used to when it comes to Turbo. :rolleyes:

[TURBO3WAGON]

What a fuss 77hp extra in a MSP caused. 96post so far in one day.

Next week I'll post how to safely run your MSP at 20psi with the factory ECU.

JK..

:D :D:D :D

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

uhh umm i really don't care what you guys believe, but i think that it may be possible. the dp and exhaust is VERY restrictive on the MSP so replacing it would provide excellent gains. the exhaust... wtf am i doin? no one is gonna listen to me or anything. why am i wasting my time here?? the only gains you guys are gonna belive are like 3-10 hp gains from a FULL TURBO BACK exhaust. if you don't think these cars have any potential, why bother modding? why did you buy it? DAMNIT!!

[boostisgood]

Ok, we all know the ecu has issues. That issue being, RUNNING TO DAMN RICH. Now what does running rich mean? TOO MUCH FUEL< NOT ENOUGH AIR.

With that said, what is an engine? A BIG FRIKIN AIR PUMP. The more air in and out, In essence, means more h.p. Now running rich means more air is needed. A free flowing filter, and 3/4 inch larger exhaust minus restrictive cats. Hrrrmmmm seems to me that there would be a whole hell of alot more air. This would cut down on the richness of the vehicle, thus giving the ability to naturally produce more power to the higher volume of air now moving. Add in the extra PSI, I cant see why these numbers are sooooooo frikin hard for you NON MSP people to see. :D

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

THANK YOU BOOSTISGOOD!!! i love you man!!! i was gonna say that, but i gave up on my post cuz there are many haters and unknowledged ppl on here that think they are knowledged!!!

[kwiktsi]

OK, so you are saying that it is easier to squeeze more hp out of an already high HP motor that is near maxed out than it is to get it out of a highly detuned motor that is nowhere near it's peak potential? AGAIN- WTF is so hard to understand that YES, the ECU is untweakable (right now :) ) and YES, it is so god damn rich, it should be considered a pollution risk BUT- At the same time, if it is dumping XXX fuel regardelss of airflow, how is increasing the airflow NOT helping the Air/Fuel mixture??? Instead of pulling fuel electronically though, you are adding air mechanically... Arrgggghhh...... (bang) (bang) (bang) I picked this car to mod because I saw you guys needed help and I thought you, in return, were capable of being helped... Maybe I should have picked a car with a more knowledgeable following so I wouldn't have to deal with it. No offense to those of you out there who are knowledgeable or those who seek to LEARN something....
Joe
PS- How many 557 whp LT1 Z28's have you built, 487 whp Talons, 414 whp Jetta's, and a whole shit load of tuned STOCK (aside from exhaust, air filter and boost) DSM's putting out 250 whp and up to base your knowledge on? I know the Z28 isn't comparable, but just proving I have been there, done that... You???

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH
Less boost is only relitive to the volume of air being moved not to mention we aren't a high compression engine, only 9:1.

If this was an S2000 with a T4 these numbers would be believable. However!

ITS A GOD DAMN PROTEGE WITH A TOTALY UNTWEAKABLE ECU, A TINY TURBO CHARGE AND AVERAGE COMPRESSION!
NOT TO MENTION ONLY 140 WHP STOCK!

77 would be very believable on a car already throwing 250whp but not 140. YOU CAN NOT GET A 50% INCREASE IN HORSEPOWER FROM AN EXHUAST, INTAKE AND 2 PSI.
Not in this world or any other!

We have no dyno to prove anything!
There was never a baseline done on the dyno!
We have never been told the major specifics fo the situation!
So at this point via the present story,

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

freak it, i'm sellin the msp and gettin an LS-1.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by AFaceInTheCrowd
freak it, i'm sellin the msp and gettin an LS-1.

Haha- talk about an untunable turbo car :).. My friend ran 12.4 with headers, exhaust, gears and crag radial. Put a turbo on it and went 12.7 :).. It is currently undergoing a DFI swap and some serious tuning...

Great NA or bottle car, tough to tune with a turbo..
Joe

[Heathen23]

OMG I love the discussion but jebus people have a (beer) and a(smoke) on me!

BTW, all of you knowledgeable folks debating these topics I (bowdown) to you because the more you debate the more I learn! So keep up the debates

I'll go back to lurking on this thread and absorbing as much as possible (peep)

[1sty]

1. Changing the exhuast will do esentialy DICK for major gains. Members of this board have added T3 turbos and even T3/T4s to cars on stock exhuast then gone to a FULL 3" from the turbo back and have not felt anything major!

THE MSP IS NOTHING NEW.

Its an MP3 with a small turbo strapped on.
If an MP3/P5/LX can't run those numbers with the intake and exhuast setup and a larger turbo then neither can the MSP.

The damn MSP is not a amazingly different vehical then any other protege.

Untill someone answers one simply question you are all full of complete shit!
Why is it the Spoolin (who has proven himself by far the most knowledgable turbo tuner on the board) extracted only 220 whp with a similiar if not better exhuast, a similair if not better intake, a FAR superior turbo at 8 PSI and a LINK's MANAGEMENT SYSTEM?
How is it that a MSP with a tiny turbo and no real tuning can hit the same numbers with only 1 more PSI?

There are only 2 answers:
1. IT CAN'T!
2. Spoolin and the other 50 people that were turboed over 6 months before the damn MSP even came out, don't know shit about turbos and proteges.

Take your pic!

[tekkie]

I have an idea :D all you non believers send me 100 bucks US each and I will go get my car baselined at the same place xsiv did his dyno, then I will put on the same exhaust and go back to the same place to get it dyno'd again to prove the difference. If I had the extra money I would do it myself :) but right now I can't afford it :(

seriously I will take your money :D lol

[Dexter]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH


why you hatin on the MSP so much :(

[AGR]

Originally posted by Dexter


why you hatin on the MSP so much :(

uh huh,,,,,,being an asshole, like Jecky. Many non-MAZDASPEED owners are quite nice; and then, there are the fucking assholes. Why are they fucking assholes?! I don't know. You would think if they couldn't be nice they would stay on their side of the fence. What a dipshit!

I gotta tell ya, Dex; Being around here, you soon find out who is cool, and who is a fucking asshole. Everyone has their bad days, I guess; but that shouldn't reflect on the forums.

I love all the Proteges. So; why is it, when somebody like '1st MP3 in NH' doesn't agree with someone else, they have to go off like a madman?! :wtf:

[1sty]

Originally posted by Dexter


why you hatin on the MSP so much :(

I am being 100% realistic nothing more or less.
I know the car as well as anyone on here at this point.
I also have been around through all of the time in which all of the other proteges were starting to get turboed up until now.

These gain of 77 whp are completely impossible unless there is more to this story.

You can make outrageous claims but my posed question explains it all. The MSp is ABSOLUTELY nothing special, just a small turbo. With an FPR and aux fuel pump I can throw more fuel then it possibly can! This is the common setup of all other Turbo proteges.

Statements without proof are garbage and I have no patience for them.

I only except proven fact!
There is more to this story or it is BS!

Simply put the MSP is not cabalbe of these number until all that makes it and MSp are removed and it is put to the level of the rest of the turbo proteges.

keep in mind there are 2 turbo kits out there. Each has a far larger turbo then the MSP. Each can throw more fuel then a stock MSP and equal air obviously. Each has a better intercooler then the MSp and each is more tunable. So why have none come close to these numbers other then One?

I have no problems believing when there is legitimate proof.

[AGR]

Yes; these indifferences are what can bring tears to my eyes. :'(

[1sty]

Originally posted by AGR#7



I gotta tell ya, Dex; Being around here, you soon find out who is cool, and who is a fucking asshole. Everyone has their bad days, I guess; but that shouldn't reflect on the forums.


As for Being an asshole!
I am looking out for you guys for christ sake.
You think this type of thing hasn't been claimed before.
It has and it was never true, if it is fine. But I DEMAND more then a post about it to accept it.

How am I an asshole for Explianing exactly what the MSP is?

Are you guys that blind to think it is superior to any other protege?

Becuase someone takes the overbosted BS away and reveals the plain and simple truth and offers simple fact with a question of proof (which NO ONE HAS HAD THE BALLZ TO ANSWER!), I guess they are an asshole.
Fine, cool by me.

[AGR]

I 'll answer. I'll answer...pick me!!

I love my Wife's ES Protege, and I think the P5 is totally sweet (almost bought one)!

Getting totally bent out of shape over a discussion, I think, is getting a bit out of hand. Sure; some things may not seem believable, and maybe they're not - but chill! There simply must be a reasonable explanation.

Or; it may just be the phenomena that is the MAZDASPEED (k)

[yashooa]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH
1. Changing the exhuast will do esentialy DICK for major gains. Members of this board have added T3 turbos and even T3/T4s to cars on stock exhuast then gone to a FULL 3" from the turbo back and have not felt anything major!

THE MSP IS NOTHING NEW.

Its an MP3 with a small turbo strapped on.
If an MP3/P5/LX can't run those numbers with the intake and exhuast setup and a larger turbo then neither can the MSP.

The damn MSP is not a amazingly different vehical then any other protege.

Untill someone answers one simply question you are all full of complete shit!
Why is it the Spoolin (who has proven himself by far the most knowledgable turbo tuner on the board) extracted only 220 whp with a similiar if not better exhuast, a similair if not better intake, a FAR superior turbo at 8 PSI and a LINK's MANAGEMENT SYSTEM?
How is it that a MSP with a tiny turbo and no real tuning can hit the same numbers with only 1 more PSI?

There are only 2 answers:
1. IT CAN'T!
2. Spoolin and the other 50 people that were turboed over 6 months before the damn MSP even came out, don't know shit about turbos and proteges.

Take your pic!

That 77 extra WHP his car produces must really hurt your pussy Miss 1sty. Please people beware of the soft vagina-ed among us please remember them when you post your gains. They will wail in pain and whine like a young girl who is about to menstrate.
Please think of their feelings before bruising the tender coochie ones among us for they are our friends as well.

[AGR]

oh my............

(outie)

[1sty]

Originally posted by AGR#7
I 'll answer. I'll answer...pick me!!

I love my Wife's ES Protege, and I think the P5 is totally sweet (almost bought one)!

Once again a board memeber dodging the subject with insult and uselessness to aviod having to contribute relevence to the subject at hand.

I don't care if you love the P5, ES, or your MP3 with a T25 on it!
It has nothing t do with the fact this thread has not one thread of FACT to back up its claims. The fact is all the board members expeirence long before you even heard of the MSP proves this to be impossile.

If you think i am still hating the MSP then 1. Grow up and drop the ego trip. 2. look at what I called it and then consider what i drive! AN MP3. To hate it I would have to hate my car aswell, I don't.

[boostisgood]

STOP STOP STOP. Yes I wanna see numnbers, I dont think anyone here is arguing FOR the guy who CLAIMS these numbers. We MSP owners ARE aruging the fact that these numbers CAN be achieved with these minimal mods.

I got an email into CALLOWAY CARS, to find out how THEY got 200 whp outta a MSP. Lets hear from them, the boost designers for the MSP tell US how they got the numbers.

Ohhh, and another thing, please stop the bickering, you non MSP boys just totally proved the opposite that many of you all claim. By this I mean the flaming ,and negativity posted to others topics. :D

Good Day.


:D

[boostisgood]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH


Once again a board memeber dodging the subject with insult and uselessness to aviod having to contribute relevence to the subject at hand.

I don't care if you love the P5, ES, or your MP3 with a T25 on it!
It has nothing t do with the fact this thread has not one thread of FACT to back up its claims. The fact is all the board members expeirence long before you even heard of the MSP proves this to be impossile.

If you think i am still hating the MSP then 1. Grow up and drop the ego trip. 2. look at what I called it and then consider what i drive! AN MP3. To hate it I would have to hate my car aswell, I don't.

I dont think any of us are arguing the guys numbers, or if the numbers are valid. What we ARE arguing is the simple fact that with the MSP platform, and the mods the guy has, these numbers are not hard to obtain.

Ohhh, and the ECU IS TUNABLE, this directly from my Mazdaspeed tech at smail mazda in greensburg pa.

[DooMer_MP3]

The problem here is that the information is sketchy at best. You can't just say that "Since this stock MSP dynoed at 141whp in this magazine, our stock MSP is also 141whp". Too many things are different in this dyno to even think about using the same number.

First off, two cars of the exact same make and model can be off by as much as 10HP from another due to differences at the time of manufacturing. Second, you have two completely different dynos in two completely different areas with two completely separate atmospheric conditions. Who knows how accurate both of these are?

The proper test would have been to dyno the stock MSP at the same dyno FIRST. Then base your numbers off of that. I would be much more inclined to believe a 30-40whp gain with intake modification, 3" exhaust, and 2-3psi of additional boost.

Chris

[1sty]

Originally posted by yashooa


That 77 extra WHP his car produces must really hurt your pussy Miss 1sty. Please people beware of the soft vagina-ed among us please remember them when you post your gains. They will wail in pain and whine like a young girl who is about to menstrate.
Please think of their feelings before bruising the tender coochie ones among us for they are our friends as well.

An MSP member at his finest.
Amazing, simply amazing.
He can find more way so call someone a pussy then anything else.
I am simply in ahw of his amazing insight into the situtation.

I have kept it totaly based on truth and experience and continue to do so even in the face of completly useless posts like this.

AGR- Wanna call me an asshole, be my guess!
yashooa- can me a pussy all you like!

In the end you have accomplished nothing but proving you are both irrelavent pricks that DON'T GIVE HALF A FUCK about anyone else unless they have an MSP which is apparently gods goft to the automotive industry as physics have no bearing on its potential.

[AGR]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH


Once again a board memeber dodging the subject with insult and uselessness to aviod having to contribute relevence to the subject at hand.



Dodging? I am dodging nothing. I do not have the knowledge to argue this about tuning, etc... When it comes to that subject, I listen and try to learn from others. I do not claim to know anything about extra power mods., and the like.

Hey! I'm one of the few here, that loves the car with 170HP!! Ain't it a miracle?!

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by yashooa


That 77 extra WHP his car produces must really hurt your pussy Miss 1sty. Please people beware of the soft vagina-ed among us please remember them when you post your gains. They will wail in pain and whine like a young girl who is about to menstrate.
Please think of their feelings before bruising the tender coochie ones among us for they are our friends as well.

OUCH!!!! (wow).. Now I know why I love ya guy :).. I will be calling Magnus shortly and will pos tthe results of my conversation shortly. My money is on it being true. I am not going to get into any more explanation into why right now, I had had it with having to (smash) shit into peoples heads around here. Belive it, fine- don't, fine. No sweat off my balls and my car will still kick the shit out of yours (burnout)...
Joe

[mikesmazda155]

Originally posted by boostisgood
Ohhh, and another thing, please stop the bickering, you non MSP boys just totally proved the opposite that many of you all claim. By this I mean the flaming ,and negativity posted to others topics. :D

Good Day.


:D


It goes both ways

[1sty]

Originally posted by boostisgood


I dont think any of us are arguing the guys numbers, or if the numbers are valid. What we ARE arguing is the simple fact that with the MSP platform, and the mods the guy has, these numbers are not hard to obtain.

Ohhh, and the ECU IS TUNABLE, this directly from my Mazdaspeed tech at smail mazda in greensburg pa.

So your MSP ECU is tuned thenis what your saying.
Keep in mind Mazda has been promising the ew program to stop the damn hesitation in these cars acceleration.
The truth is the ECu will be tunable by MAZDA ONLY!

This is the same he said and they promised crap. Untill somene has it out and functional it doesn't yet matter.
Not to mention the original post in no way mentioned tuning the ECu thus my original and constant statement of "THERE IS MORE TO THIS STORY" Is of great rellivance.

[1sty]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


OUCH!!!! (wow).. Now I know why I love ya guy :).. I will be calling Magnus shortly and will pos tthe results of my conversation shortly. My money is on it being true. I am not going to get into any more explanation into why right now, I had had it with having to (smash) shit into peoples heads around here. Belive it, fine- don't, fine. No sweat off my balls and my car will still kick the shit out of yours (burnout)...
Joe

Jesus what is so hard to understand here.
It is not my or anyone else's postition or need to believe or disbeileve you or any one else.

If you make a claim it is you resposibilty to PROVE IT!
until then it is speculation and pointless!

[boostisgood]

1St calm down man, I said its tunable, not that it IS tuned. Yeah, it might be ONLY tunable by MAzda, for now. Someone will always find a way to do things, as with many palm programmers, or laptop programs that will tune a factory ECU. It is out there.

I was referring to another post, not yours, so dont get your panties in a bunch. Again to enlighten you, we are arguing the fact that those numbers ARE attainable with those mods, not the numbers the guy posted as true.

[1sty]

Originally posted by AGR#7


Dodging? I am dodging nothing. I do not have the knowledge to argue this about tuning, etc... When it comes to that subject, I listen and try to learn from others. I do not claim to know anything about extra power mods., and the like.

Hey! I'm one of the few here, that loves the car with 170HP!! Ain't it a miracle?!

Which is why it is so damn disconcerning to be assulted by someone for trying to make sure they and others don't get cought up in a web of BS that has shown no relevent proof.

AGR. You love your car, we know this. I have had mine for more then a year loinger then you and trust me even though financialy it keeps me unstable and has a fair share of issues I cannot part with it! No matter what I look to make it better. I have been doing that and reading everyhting I can for the last 2 years and these claims are BS If not fine I can easily admit I am wrong and WOULD LOVE TO DO SO. You think I don't want 77 more HP?

[Logan]

I think everybody has acknowledged that everyone posting in this thread needs to step back and take a deep breath.
ok, lets do that.
done
Now, I think it has been covered extensively here that XSIVSPD posted that his car made 77whp more than a similiar car without his modifications dynoed under completely different conditions.
Regretfully, I don't think he did a preliminary baseline.
Oh well, who cares.
His car makes lots of hp with some "basic" modifications, yay, good for him.
Are we done now?

[1sty]

Originally posted by boostisgood
1St calm down man, I said its tunable, not that it IS tuned. Yeah, it might be ONLY tunable by MAzda, for now. Someone will always find a way to do things, as with many palm programmers, or laptop programs that will tune a factory ECU. It is out there.

I was referring to another post, not yours, so dont get your panties in a bunch. Again to enlighten you, we are arguing the fact that those numbers ARE attainable with those mods, not the numbers the guy posted as true.

I am well aware of all that. But I have added something more.
Untill a "proclaimed mod is avialable and working then it is not relevanet. Yes in the future the ECU may be tweakable. Its possible but Mazda will have to hand over there codes first. Saying the ECu is tunable becuase a tech told you doesn't mean anything as you have no time line, realist idea of implimentation or extend of the tuning capability. Thus it doesn't really exist in any useable form for you and I yet.

You leave my panties out of this :D.

[1sty]

Originally posted by Logan

His car makes lots of hp with some "basic" modifications, yay, good for him.
Are we done now?

This is the statemnt at the heart of the agument.
Those basic mods can not yeild that much power. Not even in relevance to another dyno, in relavence to the 220whp, simply not possible. The capared to dyno or the "77" is not the argument I am making.
So we have several possibilities:

1. I, spoolin, kooldino and everyone else that have been playing with turbos on these cars for a year now are wrong and these numbers are possible.
- Sounds good to me, I like that much power too.
2. We are right and there is more to the story such as several unmentioned modifications.
3. The Dyno was simply way the hell off calibration.

[boostisgood]

GOtcha there Bro. :D I agree with your statement, and it is valid about the ECU.

Ohhh and ur panties got some skidders dood (butt)

[mikesmazda155]

Yeah I wouldn't trust what the techs say. One told me that my exhaust was welded to my turbo. Thats funny

[perfworks]

God i cant believe im actually going to post this here with all this tension , but here it goes.

**climbs into saddams bunker***

First of all whoever would like to listen fine, whoever doesnt ,please dont flame this is my opinion substantiated by some relevant design theory.
Every engine in the world is designed with a certain potential power level that it can produce. This being said , value X HP and torque is produced on a stand. No restrictions , in a controlled envirement and so on and so on. I think i am speaking to people with some common sense so i dont have to go any deeper with that.
When an engine is installed on the car of choice many modifications to the intake , exhaust, restraint and drivetrain have restricted a certain amout of power that can be delivered to the wheels.
what im saying is simple, the engine is allready able to put out XXX HP . You are NOT CREATING more unless you change the variables used to make a more efficient combustion process.Cooler ambient air, a more strictly controlled pressurized manifold air charge , higher flow capacity exhaust, ETC.
Now IMO i think it is possible (percentage wise) to get that additional HP. BUT ITS TOUGH. Now you all need to understand that once you change the diameter of a downpipe from the original turbo (DOESNT MATTER IF ITS A T25), you are increasing the pressure differential in the exhaust system. That pressure diff. is what spools up a turbo FASTER. How does it do that you ask? well for those who dont know when you increase the downpipe diameter you are increasing the flow capacity of the system. You are creating a larger negative pressure after the the turbine wheel which will induce the exhaust gas to the larger (more negative) side faster to balance the system. Velocity will slow slightly but the additional force at the higher RPM will allow it move much more efficiently.
Now by increasing spoolin efficiency and and decreasing "lag time" your boost pressure will allow for a more dense mixture earlier in the rpm band. That is where you want it because your cam profile can use it and put it to work. Once you have generated enough torque down low, it is just a matter of maintaining it.AHHH the job of Horsepower comes in now. Add the the larger capacity exhaust and free flowing intake, rich mixture at higher rpm, constant boost against the valves across the entire rpm range and there you have it!!
It is much easier to make the power the engine was designed to put out once the (airpump) engine can breathe.Especially on the top end of the rpm band

In closing, i am not sure whether or not this or any mod that he has done has allowed this HP potential. But i am sure that it is possible.
Its amazing what forced induction can do to volumetric efficiency for the engine when it is allowed to proccess the air it is given:)

[AGR]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH


Which is why it is so damn disconcerning to be assulted by someone for trying to make sure they and others don't get cought up in a web of BS that has shown no relevent proof.

AGR. You love your car, we know this. I have had mine for more then a year loinger then you and trust me even though financialy it keeps me unstable and has a fair share of issues I cannot part with it! No matter what I look to make it better. I have been doing that and reading everyhting I can for the last 2 years and these claims are BS If not fine I can easily admit I am wrong and WOULD LOVE TO DO SO. You think I don't want 77 more HP?

First and foremost: I apologize for my behavior. On my way home; I'm thinking to myself; Greg! 'That was so stupid'. I was out of line calling you an asshole. That isn't me. I'm better than that.

Everyone here is an enthusiast. Some want different things out of their cars, than others. There is little question of my love for my car, and my passion for Sports cars and sedans alike. I have good friends with other makes of cars that are fantastic cars. I know what my MAZDASPEED is, and what it isn't. What's it capable of? I'm not sure. But; it will be fun to see what is achieved down the road. I know that the MP3s, P5s, and regular Proteges have posted some great #s in the past. Let's all have fun! (thumb)

Cheers everyone! (drinks)

[yashooa]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH


An MSP member at his finest.
Amazing, simply amazing.
He can find more way so call someone a pussy then anything else.
I am simply in ahw of his amazing insight into the situtation.

I have kept it totaly based on truth and experience and continue to do so even in the face of completly useless posts like this.

AGR- Wanna call me an asshole, be my guess!
yashooa- can me a pussy all you like!

In the end you have accomplished nothing but proving you are both irrelavent pricks that DON'T GIVE HALF A FUCK about anyone else unless they have an MSP which is apparently gods goft to the automotive industry as physics have no bearing on its potential.

1st (hehehe) I said you HAVE a pussy not that you are a pussy.
A sore one at that.

2cnd. I have accomplished something and that something is joy. Yes I have (with your help of course) given the most preciuos gift of all "laughter" to my fellow MSPer's, MP3er's, PR5er's, and just plain ole Protegeians.

3RD. So grab a Maxi-pad, spray some Bacteen on that sprained twat of yours and realize that the fact that I'm a prick doesn't mean that I can’t bring just a little bit o light into all dem find people's day out there in Zoom Zoom land.

4th. Yes the MSP does defy the laws of physics just the other day I saw Einstein himself drive back from the dead to pick up Nicola Tesla and swing by Jamaica to grab Bob Marley and smoke some refer at the 25th Annual Jamaica days Dope Fest.

Peace out...

[1sty]

Originally posted by yashooa


1st (hehehe) I said you HAVE a pussy not that you are a pussy.
A sore one at that.

2cnd. I have accomplished something and that something is joy. Yes I have (with your help of course) given the most preciuos gift of all "laughter" to my fellow MSPer's, MP3er's, PR5er's, and just plain ole Protegeians.

3RD. So grab a Maxi-pad, spray some Bacteen on that sprained twat of yours and realize that the fact that I'm a prick doesn't mean that I can’t bring just a little bit o light into all dem find people's day out there in Zoom Zoom land.

4th. Yes the MSP does defy the laws of physics just the other day I saw Einstein himself drive back from the dead to pick up Nicola Tesla and swing by Jamaica to grab Bob Marley and smoke some refer at the 25th Annual Jamaica days Dope Fest.

Peace out...

Your very existance makes me question my stance as pro-life on the subject if abortion. :p

[I-Am-Chris]

well first stock rex's put 178-186 stock. have the dyno sheets to prove that and also 3' uppipe and downpipe and testpipes and exhaust dont net 80 to the wheels in awd r u crazy????? I have the dyno sheet of that to and it adds about 20-30whp if that. Done at Cobb Tuning in Rockwall, Tx at an awd dyno not the dynopack where you take the wheels off.

Also that sounds like a badass claim but like everyone said where r the dyno sheets. Plus think abou tthe Leaky ass BOV at that PSI?!

The other kid got 187 to the wheels at 12 psi with a filter and a BOV. thats also another thing to think about

[yashooa]

Originally posted by I-Am-Chris
well first stock rex's put 178-186 stock. have the dyno sheets to prove that and also 3' uppipe and downpipe and testpipes and exhaust dont net 80 to the wheels in awd r u crazy????? I have the dyno sheet of that to and it adds about 20-30whp if that. Done at Cobb Tuning in Rockwall, Tx at an awd dyno not the dynopack where you take the wheels off.

Also that sounds like a badass claim but like everyone said where r the dyno sheets. Plus think abou tthe Leaky ass BOV at that PSI?!

The other kid got 187 to the wheels at 12 psi with a filter and a BOV. thats also another thing to think about

So 187WHP/194WT plus 20more Horsie Hoes from the exhaust is 207WHP... Perhaps with some tuning and da skilz ahem,
"Joe, Perfwoyks" 215-220WHP(or more) is possible.

Sup Chris Ya MadMan

(rockon)

[perfworks]

Originally posted by yashooa


So 187WHP/194WT plus 20more Horsie Hoes from the exhaust is 207WHP... Perhaps with some tuning and da skilz ahem,
"Joe, Perfwoyks" 215-220WHP(or more) is possible.

Sup Chris Ya MadMan

(rockon)
please read my post on page 9;) :D

[yashooa]

Originally posted by perfworks

please read my post on page 9;) :D

OMG! You said ,"volumetric efficiency" ewww Im all tingly.

P.S. I hope that pump you speak of doesn't plug in the dash.
(crazy)

[perfworks]

Originally posted by yashooa


OMG! You said ,"volumetric efficiency" ewww Im all tingly.

P.S. I hope that pump you speak of doesn't plung in the dash.
(crazy)
LOL:D

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by I-Am-Chris
well first stock rex's put 178-186 stock. have the dyno sheets to prove that and also 3' uppipe and downpipe and testpipes and exhaust dont net 80 to the wheels in awd r u crazy????? I have the dyno sheet of that to and it adds about 20-30whp if that. Done at Cobb Tuning in Rockwall, Tx at an awd dyno not the dynopack where you take the wheels off.

Also that sounds like a badass claim but like everyone said where r the dyno sheets. Plus think abou tthe Leaky ass BOV at that PSI?!

The other kid got 187 to the wheels at 12 psi with a filter and a BOV. thats also another thing to think about

1st- ever do a pressure test on the IC system to see if the BOV leaks? I have- it doesn't :).. I thought it did when I got the car just because of how shitty it ran, but that turned out to be normal :)..

2nd- 187 at 12 psi through 2 cats, a resonator and 2.25" piping, where do you not see a 20 +whp gain from a much better flowing exhaust?

I am half tempted to dyno mine just to shut people up. If it will prove a point, I will call tomorrow to make an appointment... Jeesh..
Joe

[1sty]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


I am half tempted to dyno mine just to shut people up. If it will prove a point, I will call tomorrow to make an appointment... Jeesh..
Joe

Thats all anyone has ever agued with you for. You have statements and no proof. Gives real, substaintial and unaguable proof and there is nothing left to debate or speculate against.

Giving recent events make sure to get a base line form the car dead stock :p.

[trekv2]

Originally posted by Heathen23
OMG I love the discussion but jebus people have a (beer) and a(smoke) on me!

BTW, all of you knowledgeable folks debating these topics I (bowdown) to you because the more you debate the more I learn! So keep up the debates

I'll go back to lurking on this thread and absorbing as much as possible (peep)

THANK YOU you took the worde out of my mouth!!! thank you joe, and prefworks (SP) and any one else that i did not mentuen, that actualy has a brain. i have learned a ALOT from yall about "tuning" this site debats too much, but its all good :D

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH


Thats all anyone has ever agued with you for. You have statements and no proof. Gives real, substaintial and unaguable proof and there is nothing left to debate or speculate against.

Giving recent events make sure to get a base line form the car dead stock :p.

Well, there goes that idea :).. My car hasn't been dead stock since it had 150 miles on it :).. We all have an "idea" of what a stock MSP will produce. So, that isn't much of a concern. If there were a dyno closer to me, I would have base lined mine long ago, but the closest one I know of is almost 2 hours away and I personally didn't give a damn what it would do stock :).. I'll call tomorrow and see what they say. Later.
Joe

[servoeyes]

You can never debate too much! But...when it comes to debasing...that's different. If we can keep it civil, try not to scream to get our point across, then it might just get heard. It's through debate that new ideas and concepts are formed...I note the old injen thread...lots of mess, but when you sift through it there's a lot of great concepts and working models put forth. At the end of the day we should still be able to sit down and have a good drink with the person on the other end... (cheers)


I'll run a dyno on mine stock before I drop the injen in...there are two dyno shops within 15-20mins of me, and the conditions should be similar to those you'll have in Albany, kwiktsi. I'll even make note of atmospheric conditions for reference! :D

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by servoeyes
You can never debate too much! But...when it comes to debasing...that's different. If we can keep it civil, try not to scream to get our point across, then it might just get heard. It's through debate that new ideas and concepts are formed...I note the old injen thread...lots of mess, but when you sift through it there's a lot of great concepts and working models put forth. At the end of the day we should still be able to sit down and have a good drink with the person on the other end... (cheers)


I'll run a dyno on mine stock before I drop the injen in...there are two dyno shops within 15-20mins of me, and the conditions should be similar to those you'll have in Albany, kwiktsi. I'll even make note of atmospheric conditions for reference! :D

cool, keep me posted.
Joe

[Vicocola]

debating sounds good, as long as everyone chill while debating... no pt arguing right now and we posted way too much within 2 days.. give him some time to print the dyno out... and for joe to call magnus to see wut's up... maybe they secretly tuned the hell outta the car without telling people ;)

[boostisgood]

My car is back to stock, Ill baseline it, then re run with MY SRI. see what we get, then add the joe p fpr kit, then add my turbo xs BOV. (yes i believe this will gain hp cause the stock bov leaks imho)

Then we will have baseline, 1 mod, next mod, next mod, and as I add my exhaust (turbo back) FMIC, and Boost controller (unless joe wants to donate one for me next weekend when i run :D )

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by boostisgood
My car is back to stock, Ill baseline it, then re run with MY SRI. see what we get, then add the joe p fpr kit, then add my turbo xs BOV. (yes i believe this will gain hp cause the stock bov leaks imho)

Then we will have baseline, 1 mod, next mod, next mod, and as I add my exhaust (turbo back) FMIC, and Boost controller (unless joe wants to donate one for me next weekend when i run :D )
I don't know that the FP kit will be good for any horsepower, it can be, but it would depend on weather, engine temps, etc...

Email me and I will hook you up with an MBC just to show the improvements :)...
Joe

[boostisgood]

Email sent Joe, hopefully you can send it with my FPR. Hit me up at ilovemyspeed on AIm if ya need to. :D

[mspeedpro]

this is a long ass thread so it might have already been said... but can someone hook me up with alink to the article on the website? i went there and looked around but can not find anything.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


Huh? Not $$$ for $$$ they don't.. A K&N and exhaust on an MSP (or any turbo car for that matter) will kill the gains you will get with the same things on a Honda. Now if you already take the plunge and put a turbo kit on a Honda, then they seem to handle the boost better and such, but not too different.
Joe

Well, I'm talking a boosted Honda vs a boosted protege.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by boostisgood
Ok, we all know the ecu has issues. That issue being, RUNNING TO DAMN RICH. Now what does running rich mean? TOO MUCH FUEL< NOT ENOUGH AIR.

With that said, what is an engine? A BIG FRIKIN AIR PUMP. The more air in and out, In essence, means more h.p. Now running rich means more air is needed. A free flowing filter, and 3/4 inch larger exhaust minus restrictive cats. Hrrrmmmm seems to me that there would be a whole hell of alot more air. This would cut down on the richness of the vehicle, thus giving the ability to naturally produce more power to the higher volume of air now moving. Add in the extra PSI, I cant see why these numbers are sooooooo frikin hard for you NON MSP people to see. :D

Don't forget we have a MAF. Based on the the volume of air entering the car, it will still run the same air:fuel ratio. So by drawing in more air, you're not really leaning things out.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH


As for Being an asshole!
I am looking out for you guys for christ sake.
You think this type of thing hasn't been claimed before.
It has and it was never true, if it is fine. But I DEMAND more then a post about it to accept it.

How am I an asshole for Explianing exactly what the MSP is?

Are you guys that blind to think it is superior to any other protege?

Becuase someone takes the overbosted BS away and reveals the plain and simple truth and offers simple fact with a question of proof (which NO ONE HAS HAD THE BALLZ TO ANSWER!), I guess they are an asshole.
Fine, cool by me.

1st has a point guys, he's not BSing here. Just like my argument recently in another thread...notice that THE MOST WELL RESPECTED MEMBERS ON THIS FORUM are with 1st on this.

AGR-Chill with the "a-hole" stuff...1st has a reason to be fired up, he's making excellent points, but again, people are blinded by the love of their MSP.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Kooldino


Don't forget we have a MAF. Based on the the volume of air entering the car, it will still run the same air:fuel ratio. So by drawing in more air, you're not really leaning things out.

That's where *I think* you're wrong.. From what I have seen- above 4500, it just dumps a predetermined amount of fuel. that is why the car runs extremely rich on hot days and a bit leaner on cold. That is why increasing air flow helps so much.

The 3rd gen RX7 I had was the same way- but lean. Anytime I did something to affect airflow, the ECU would have to be re-mapped to to add extra fuel to compensate- what a pain :mad: !!! I guess it was good that at least there are people to do the RX7 ECU :)...

Also, I agree with you on the Honda thing.. We had an Integra in our group with a larger T3/T4 (can't remember the trim), FMIC, FMU, slightly larger injectors and an AFC- oh yeah- and an open downpipe :). No internal mods to the motor. He would run 14-16 psi daily on pump gas.. Never been to the track, but on drag radials took out a ton of low 13, high 12 second cars with ease.. Drove it like that for almost 2 years and never had an issue, the car also had 150k+ on it when he started!!! Tuning played a big part in it living, but at least it was able to easily be tuned :).
Joe

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by yashooa


So 187WHP/194WT plus 20more Horsie Hoes from the exhaust is 207WHP...


Uhh, perhaps you missed the fact that 187whp was a TWELVE PSI. Not NINE. Big difference. SO even if we take your estimate of 20hp for the exhaust, we must first "subtract" power for the extra 3psi he's running. 3psi is a good 20whp on these cars. 187-20 (for less psi)=167. 167+20 (for exhaust)=*gasp* 187. Nowhere NEAR 207.


Perhaps with some tuning and da skilz ahem,
"Joe, Perfwoyks" 215-220WHP(or more) is possible.
(rockon)

Sure, it's possible NO DOUBT. But not with intake, an exhaust and an extra 2psi. Come on man, that's just silly.

[AGR]

As I mentioned; I'm not with or against. Attitude is what I was referring to. I have no chip on my shoulder because I have a 'Speed. But some here, that own other Protege's; think most or all MAZDASPEED owners do have an attitude thinking their 'Speeds are all high and mighty. Crazy!

I apologized! (see above) I have chilled! Again;;;;;sorry

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


That's where *I think* you're wrong.. From what I have seen- above 4500, it just dumps a predetermined amount of fuel. that is why the car runs extremely rich on hot days and a bit leaner on cold. That is why increasing air flow helps so much.


Just curious, how do you know it runs rich on hot days and leaner on cold? I take it you have a wideband? Also, richer when hot, could just be a precaution taken by the ECU. Who knows?

My thinking is this: yes, above 4500rpm @ WOT it's in open loop. But AFAIK, that just means that it's running a fixed air:fuel ratio and not paying attention to O2 sensors to see how things were burned. I'd think that it would still have to pay attention to the MAF to see how much air was being drawn in, or else it could lead to big drivability issues down the line. I really can't back up what I'm saying, but that just makes sense to me.


The 3rd gen RX7 I had was the same way- but lean. Anytime I did something to affect airflow, the ECU would have to be re-mapped to to add extra fuel to compensate- what a pain :mad: !!! I guess it was good that at least there are people to do the RX7 ECU :)...


Did it have a MAS or a MAP?


Also, I agree with you on the Honda thing.. We had an Integra in our group with a larger T3/T4 (can't remember the trim), FMIC, FMU, slightly larger injectors and an AFC- oh yeah- and an open downpipe :). No internal mods to the motor. He would run 14-16 psi daily on pump gas.. Never been to the track, but on drag radials took out a ton of low 13, high 12 second cars with ease.. Drove it like that for almost 2 years and never had an issue, the car also had 150k+ on it when he started!!! Tuning played a big part in it living, but at least it was able to easily be tuned :).
Joe

Nuts! I wish our engines could fare that well so easily.

[boostisgood]

Joe hit the nail on the head, the car goes open look right around 4.5k rpms, thus ignoting most sensors and going with a predetermined fuel map. So by adding more air there, you will make more power by leaning out to a more stoich mix. If you look at the dyno chart, you can see where the car went to open loop, and it made the most power in the upper rpm band. It barely hit 200 hp before 4.5k rpms, where it will match what it thinks is proper fuel for the air injested. That is where a product like HKS AFC will come into play. after open loop would be a product like joe p's FPR kit. :D

[DooMer_MP3]

Originally posted by Kooldino


1st has a point guys, he's not BSing here. Just like my argument recently in another thread...notice that THE MOST WELL RESPECTED MEMBERS ON THIS FORUM are with 1st on this.

AGR-Chill with the "a-hole" stuff...1st has a reason to be fired up, he's making excellent points, but again, people are blinded by the love of their MSP.

Kooldino,
So after reading even more replies from you, I have but one question. Who's ..... :p KIDDING!

Chris

[kwiktsi]

OK guys, I just got off the phone with Marco from Magnus- he doesn't want to have to come down here and slap you guys around with the reality stick :)..

223 whp with just exhuast, MBC (he said it was spiking past 9psi, but no more than 10-11) and K&N. Thank you, please drive through..

xsiv does not fuck around with BS- he is serious and he is serious about doing what he has to do to take the car as far as it will go.

Marco said that he came by to pick up his dyno sheet to show you guys yesterday, but I wouldn't be surprised if he said "fuck it, they're not worth it".... All this typical message board bullshit is ridiculous.. WOW- a 223 whp TURBO CAR- NO WAAAYY!!!
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Kooldino


Just curious, how do you know it runs rich on hot days and leaner on cold? I take it you have a wideband? Also, richer when hot, could just be a precaution taken by the ECU. Who knows?

My thinking is this: yes, above 4500rpm @ WOT it's in open loop. But AFAIK, that just means that it's running a fixed air:fuel ratio and not paying attention to O2 sensors to see how things were burned. I'd think that it would still have to pay attention to the MAF to see how much air was being drawn in, or else it could lead to big drivability issues down the line. I really can't back up what I'm saying, but that just makes sense to me.

[B]

Did it have a MAS or a MAP?

[B]



Nuts! I wish our engines could fare that well so easily.

I am with you in believing that the ECU would still have to pay attention to the MAF for adjustments, especially since it still monitors airflow for fuel cut, but I have heard it to be different by many sources.. Unless the maps are just extremely rich based on airflow, which I am starting to think may be possible. If the car goes into open loop and bases fuel on a predetermined map above 4500, how come with the MAF unhooked from the tube (got bored and tested this) it will just go lean and fall on it's face under boost no matter what the RPM? If it were predetermined, it would still run the same above 4500 with no maf..

Good call on the RX7- MAP. nice catch, it slipped my mind completely..
Joe

[AGR]

Dang Joe!! That is amazing!! 223 whp!!

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by boostisgood
Joe hit the nail on the head, the car goes open look right around 4.5k rpms, thus ignoting most sensors and going with a predetermined fuel map. So by adding more air there, you will make more power by leaning out to a more stoich mix.


Well, you don't WANT stoich on a boosted car. But leaner than stock is good.


If you look at the dyno chart, you can see where the car went to open loop, and it made the most power in the upper rpm band. It barely hit 200 hp before 4.5k rpms,


?? @ 4.5K RPMs it's about 175...nowhere near 200.


where it will match what it thinks is proper fuel for the air injested. That is where a product like HKS AFC will come into play.


I dunno if an AFC will work with an MSP...it shouldn't but it may.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by kwiktsi
OK guys, I just got off the phone with Marco from Magnus- he doesn't want to have to come down here and slap you guys around with the reality stick :)..

223 whp with just exhuast, MBC (he said it was spiking past 9psi, but no more than 10-11) and K&N. Thank you, please drive through..


Whoa whoa whoa..."just spiking" to 11psi is twice the gain noted in the original claim. Now we're talking +4psi instead of +2psi. If anything this hurts your argument more than it helps it...


Marco said that he came by to pick up his dyno sheet to show you guys yesterday, but I wouldn't be surprised if he said "fuck it, they're not worth it".... All this typical message board bullshit is ridiculous.. WOW- a 223 whp TURBO CAR- NO WAAAYY!!!
Joe

No, it's the "223whp on a car that comes with 170chp and has a couple of MINOR mods" factor that makes us all so suspiscious.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by kwiktsi

I am with you in believing that the ECU would still have to pay attention to the MAF for adjustments, especially since it still monitors airflow for fuel cut, but I have heard it to be different by many sources.. Unless the maps are just extremely rich based on airflow, which I am starting to think may be possible.


Yeah, that's my belief...that they are rich based on AIRFLOW, but it's just saying "oh, we're in open loop, dump X amount of fuel at Y RPM" that sounds silly to me. Like I said and you seem to agree with, that would cause issues.


If the car goes into open loop and bases fuel on a predetermined map above 4500, how come with the MAF unhooked from the tube (got bored and tested this) it will just go lean and fall on it's face under boost no matter what the RPM? If it were predetermined, it would still run the same above 4500 with no maf..


While I've never tried this before it backs up my theory. Good work! Makes perfect sense though. Anyway, it just goes with my point that "adding air" isn't going to lean out fuel in open loop.


Good call on the RX7- MAP. nice catch, it slipped my mind completely..
Joe

Word.
:cool:



EDITED for a confusing setence above.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Kooldino


Whoa whoa whoa..."just spiking" to 11psi is twice the gain noted in the original claim. Now we're talking +4psi instead of +2psi. If anything this hurts your argument more than it helps it...

[B]

No, it's the "223whp on a car that comes with 170chp and has a couple of MINOR mods" factor that makes us all so suspiscious.

Spiking is not holding at 11 psi.. Bottom line is a STOCK MSP with an MBC, turboback exhaust and K&N did 223 to the wheels at APPROXIMATELY 10 psi.. Let me rephrase this so I don't get the" you think the MSP is gods gift" shit- a Protege with a Garret GT25R turbo, 3" exhaust and 10 psi with slightly reduced timing and a more aggressive fuel curve (MSP ECU) put 223 hp to the wheels.

I personally could care fucking less if it was 9 psi or 11 psi. Also, just in case you missed it- a lot of stock MSP's are only putting 5 psi out, so who's to say that the car they are comparing the numbers to was 6.9? If that one was only 5, then we have a 4 psi increase plus a free flowing exha... You know what, fuck it.. We are all lying. Marco who builds 800 hp 4 cylinders is making it up for a whopping 223 hp. Christ...
Joe

[AGR]

Joe:
....some, simply do not want us to be happy. Funny; how everyone here (especially others with cars other than MSPs) are experts.

Personally; I have no experience - but what a lot of naysayers. Goodness!

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Kooldino


Yeah, that's my belief...that they are rich based on AIRFLOW, but it's just just saying "oh, we're in open loop, dump X amount of fuel at Y RPM". Like I said and you seem to agree with, that would cause issues.

[B]

While I've never tried this before it backs up my theory. Good work! Makes perfect sense though. Anyway, it just goes with my point that "adding air" isn't going to lean out fuel in open loop.

[B]

Word.
:cool:

When I first got this car and I heard that it just dumps fuel, that made it no better than a carburetor in my eyes and I feel as you do- it would cause drivability issues. If not drivability, definately tunning issues- which we have, so it still may hold some water.. It is definately RPM based though, at 4500, the car goes extremely rich. I am torn I think it would still have to use the MAF, but everything points to no (aside from my test)- dropping the FP helps, the car runs drastically better in cold weather than warm, etc.. It has me stumped :).. I was told that the Miatas do the same thing- just goes to a default map and that is it.. I will know more soon enough, I am doing a bunch of tests to see how much it uses the MAF up top..
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Kooldino
No, it's the "223whp on a car that comes with 170chp and has a couple of MINOR mods" factor that makes us all so suspiscious. [/B]

Not to disagree anymore, but it is those first few "minor mods" that make all the difference. It will not be this easy to get another 70+ HP out of it... Like Marco even said- the first ~$1500 is what gets you hooked because you can't believe the gains you just got. After that, it is $3000 for the same gain, and so on.... Turbo cars are great for the first round of free and cheap mods as for bang for the buck... It is the next round that hurts the wallet if you are going for bang for the buck :).
Joe

[boostisgood]

Dear lord, this has turned into a MSP v the world debate here. Dont believe that is fine. See you will. It is human nature to be skeptical. I just still dont understand why you dont believe the damn dyno chart he had provided?

Alas, Im out of this thread, and possibly off the board, and yes, all you non MSP owners, and a few MSp owners, who seem to be the (i got a spool/BEGI/homemade turbo kit) know it alls when it comes to boost, just HAVE to be right cause you cannot obtain these numbers with your BIGGER turbo kits. Just remember, your ECU (minus Terry with the stand alone) is not tuned for boost at all, and yes our ECU may be shitty, but it is programmed for boost.

Also, Joe if ya need, hit me up on AIM at ilovemyspeed , if i dont post my dyno sheet after the MBC and SRI and FPR is installed next week. You can post it, if you dont leave too.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by kwiktsi

Spiking is not holding at 11 psi..


Agreed, but it will undoubtedly affect those dyno #'s.


Bottom line is a STOCK MSP with an MBC, turboback exhaust and K&N did 223 to the wheels at APPROXIMATELY 10 psi.. Let me rephrase this so I don't get the" you think the MSP is gods gift" shit- a Protege with a Garret GT25R turbo, 3" exhaust and 10 psi with slightly reduced timing and a more aggressive fuel curve (MSP ECU) put 223 hp to the wheels.


I still don't believe the dyno, but at least it's closer to being possible in my eyes.


I personally could care fucking less if it was 9 psi or 11 psi.


To me it makes a difference since the orignal claim was 9psi.


Also, just in case you missed it- a lot of stock MSP's are only putting 5 psi out, so who's to say that the car they are comparing the numbers to was 6.9? If that one was only 5, then we have a 4 psi increase plus a free flowing exha... You know what, fuck it.. We are all lying.


I hear ya, but Mazda spec is ~6.9psi, and a lot of members reported that number. There were HUGE debates about this before the MSP came out. Maybe a few people got 5psi, or maybe their boost gauge was hooked up wrong...who knows.



Marco who builds 800 hp 4 cylinders is making it up for a whopping 223 hp. Christ...
Joe

I'm not saying that he's making it up, I'm just saying that a 9psi MSP w/ an air filter and an exhaust isn't making 223 to the wheels.

"800"hp 4 bangers, eh? :p :D (note my quotes around the number...hehe)

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by AGR#7
Joe:
....some, simply do not want us to be happy.


LOL, I don't think you understand...if you could pull those gains on your car, then with a bigger/better FMIC, metal piping and a bigger turbo, guys like me should see even better gains from similar mods. My point is that we WANT you to be happy, and we WISH that those minor mods would give such a HUGE gain. I REALLY REALLY do wish it were true.


Funny; how everyone here (especially others with cars other than MSPs) are experts.

How is it funny? Because we've been researching and toying with the FS-DE for 2 years now while most of you guys have been at it for a few months? It would make sense for guys with boosted MP3s and older MP5s to know more about it...since we had to do all of the research just to get where we are.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


Not to disagree anymore, but it is those first few "minor mods" that make all the difference. It will not be this easy to get another 70+ HP out of it...


Of course...it's the law of diminishing returns at that point.


Like Marco even said- the first ~$1500 is what gets you hooked because you can't believe the gains you just got. After that, it is $3000 for the same gain, and so on.... Turbo cars are great for the first round of free and cheap mods as for bang for the buck... It is the next round that hurts the wallet if you are going for bang for the buck :).
Joe

While I agree with your logic, I've NEVER seen ANY turbo car gain 50% extra whp from "2 psi", an air filter, and an exhaust. It's just way too outlandish.

[AGR]

170hp or 230hp - doesn't matter! I will be happy regardless.

It's really that simple.

I'm not out there looking for races against other brands. Not interested. I don't go to the drag strip (ho hum).

If anything; I would like to eventually go to a road racing school, and possibly some autocrossing.

I am a racing enthusiast from many years back, and probably have a much greater knowledge of racing (not Import racing), than most here. I have been following Formula 1, Champ Car, and Sports Car racing probably longer than many of you have been on this earth. Actually; I'm sure if it.

If some nice gains are obtained; I may very well be interested. My little speeding ticket a few months took some wind from my sails. Ha! But; I find this all very interesting, and am very curious to see final numbers.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by boostisgood
Dear lord, this has turned into a MSP v the world debate here. Dont believe that is fine. See you will. It is human nature to be skeptical. I just still dont understand why you dont believe the damn dyno chart he had provided?


When I see a baseline of an MSP on THAT dyno, and then another run of that same MSP with the same mods, and there's a video tape on the details such as the boost gauge, etc, then I'll believe it. It just sounds so far from realistic that it's very hard to believe.

<X files>

I want to believe.

</X files>


Alas, Im out of this thread, and possibly off the board,


Off the board? Because we're having a civilized disagreement?


and yes, all you non MSP owners, and a few MSp owners, who seem to be the (i got a spool/BEGI/homemade turbo kit) know it alls when it comes to boost, just HAVE to be right cause you cannot obtain these numbers with your BIGGER turbo kits.


ROFL, yeah, that's it. It's penis envy. Not that fact that you're making over 150% of your original WHP with no major mods.


Just remember, your ECU (minus Terry with the stand alone) is not tuned for boost at all, and yes our ECU may be shitty, but it is programmed for boost.


Agreed. BUT, even Terry's ECU which is SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR HIS CAR only pulled 210 or so whp with a 16g @ 8psi and a nice FMIC. It's facts like that which make the claim seem so unreasonable.


Also, Joe if ya need, hit me up on AIM at ilovemyspeed , if i dont post my dyno sheet after the MBC and SRI and FPR is installed next week. You can post it, if you dont leave too.

:rolleyes:

[boostisgood]

Do you not understand it is easier to make more hp with minimal mods on a boosted engine then an NA engine ? How is that concept hard to believe? Ill tell ya, it took a 3+ grand turbo system to reach my rated hp in my MSP for you. Now someone improves basic air flow characteristics, and gains mad WHP. Not hard, go read some DSM, WRX boards and see what they get with these simple mods.


Im jsut sick of all the negativity towards the MSP in general anymore. THIS is why I feel I whould leave. I can do what I need on my own, come back PROVE WITH DYNO/VIDEO/AUDIO/SWORN STATEMENT FROM THE POPE, and some ass would STILL hate and be like thats :bs: Its just sad anymore to see forums here to help, and CONSTSRUCTAVLEY criticise get to this point.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by boostisgood
Do you not understand it is easier to make more hp with minimal mods on a boosted engine then an NA engine ?


LOL, yes I understand that.


How is that concept hard to believe?


It's not. But the AMOUNT of power you guys are claiming is just silly to me.


Ill tell ya, it took a 3+ grand turbo system to reach my rated hp in my MSP for you.


Not quite. There's no doubt in my mind that I'm putting down more power than a stock MSP.


Now someone improves basic air flow characteristics, and gains mad WHP. Not hard, go read some DSM, WRX boards and see what they get with these simple mods.


I do. Frequently. I am a member of a couple of Suby/DSM boards. And they don't get anywhere NEAR 50% extra WHP with exhaust, 2psi, and an intake. In fact, go post the original post in this thread on nasioc.com so they can all laugh at you. If you want an example, I have a friend w/ a WRX...he took it to the track while stock and ran low 14's. Then he did an MKiii BPM 3" turbo back exhaust with an up-pipe, etc etc and a JoeP MBC (which allowed him to get better boost in 1st gear as well). He added 2psi. I did drop his 1/4 mile time (on RACE GAS) a bit...down to a 13.8 or so. But if it gave him anywhere NEAR 50% extra WHP (for basically the same mods that you guys are claiming did on our car) then it would have EASILY put him in the low 13's. Just an example.


Im jsut sick of all the negativity towards the MSP in general anymore.


??? What negativity? It's a great car.


THIS is why I feel I whould leave. I can do what I need on my own, come back PROVE WITH DYNO/VIDEO/AUDIO/SWORN STATEMENT FROM THE POPE, and some ass would STILL hate and be like thats :bs: Its just sad anymore to see forums here to help, and CONSTSRUCTAVLEY criticise get to this point.

Excuse me for not trusting the dyno sheet. We've already had more info come out of the woodwork with the "boost spiking", etc. That right there should show that things are a little sketchy since that detail was originally left out. Who knows what other variables we don't know about.

[1sty]

Is fun speading truth and experience of so many by yourslef, Huh Kool.
I had the plesure yestureday :D.

Facts!
1. Saying the MSp will more easily produce power witht he same mods as say Kooldinos and my car is simply worng. Why. Easy WE ALSO HAVE TURBOS! The Debate is not the MSP as a turbo car versus a NA MP3 and the power they will produce with the same mods. The debat is HOW an MSP can yeild far greater numbers with the same mods then any other TURBO PROTEGE!
Make the MSP versus the world or versus and NA car again and your a knob!

2. No turbo car has ever seen gains like the % we are seeing via the MSP dyno sheet. Not honda, subaru or any other.

3. THe MSP has been in your guys hands to tune for 3 months. We have had TURBO proteges on the road long before the MSPs original intended release.

4. No one is trying to make anyone else "unhappy" what kind of pussification is that. We want answers. Thats it. Make a logical argument why the MSP can make mroe the twice what any other TURBO protege can with the same mods and we will be satesfied.

Enjoy!

[boostisgood]

Guys, if you wanna talk about this in real time, I would love to over AIM. Posting here is just takin too much bandwith. You guys can try me at Ilovemyspeed for a little while tonight. Im goin to see 2F 2F at the drive in. (flame away, its just entertainment to me :D ) But will be on before and after.

Im not trying to fight with anymoe, and realize I can be an ass too. Sorry for the heatedness in some of my posts. :D

[yashooa]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH
Thats it. Make a logical argument why the MSP can make mroe the twice what any other TURBO protege can with the same mods and we will be satesfied.

Enjoy!

Because the MSP's dick is way way bigger than those "other" cars.
It the secret Ginsu dick mod.
Makes more boost and smooves out da flow.
It kinda makes the car feel like a 800lb Sumo freak has taken a running start and slamed into the assend of your MSP.
I hear they only had an HIV infected Geisha Chick mod for the MP3 man that's rough. She a so skrinny she can abarely moove da car.
Hiah!

[AGR]

A PERFECT "450" Yashooa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(rofl) (rofl) (rofl)

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH
Is fun speading truth and experience of so many by yourslef, Huh Kool.
I had the plesure yestureday :D.


LOL


Facts!
1. Saying the MSp will more easily produce power witht he same mods as say Kooldinos and my car is simply worng. Why. Easy WE ALSO HAVE TURBOS! The Debate is not the MSP as a turbo car versus a NA MP3 and the power they will produce with the same mods. The debat is HOW an MSP can yeild far greater numbers with the same mods then any other TURBO PROTEGE!


Good point.


2. No turbo car has ever seen gains like the % we are seeing via the MSP dyno sheet. Not honda, subaru or any other.


Yup. I illustrated that before. Got that guys? NO TURBO CAR, EVER. Not even close.


4. No one is trying to make anyone else "unhappy" what kind of pussification is that. We want answers. Thats it. Make a logical argument why the MSP can make mroe the twice what any other TURBO protege can with the same mods and we will be satesfied.


Yup, what he said.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by boostisgood
Guys, if you wanna talk about this in real time, I would love to over AIM. Posting here is just takin too much bandwith. You guys can try me at Ilovemyspeed for a little while tonight. Im goin to see 2F 2F at the drive in. (flame away, its just entertainment to me :D ) But will be on before and after.

Im not trying to fight with anymoe, and realize I can be an ass too. Sorry for the heatedness in some of my posts. :D

Thanks but I'd rather debate on here for everyone to see and reply to.

[AGR]

Roger that!!! I guess that's that!!! 77 ain't happenin'. :'(

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by yashooa


Because the MSP's dick is way way bigger than those "other" cars.
It the secret Ginsu dick mod.
Makes more boost and smooves out da flow.
It kinda makes the car feel like a 800lb Sumo freak has taken a running start and slamed into the assend of your MSP.
I hear they only had an HIV infected Geisha Chick mod for the MP3 man that's rough. She a so skrinny she can abarely moove da car.
Hiah!

LOL. Sugar, anyone?

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by AGR#7
Roger that!!! I guess that's that!!! 77 ain't happenin'. :'(

Wow, so you agree? Props for seeing our points and rethinking your view.

[1sty]

Originally posted by Kooldino


Wow, so you agree? Props for seeing our points and rethinking your view.

He just has a personality disorder. Half of his 12 personas think we are right, 5 think the Dyno is Dead on and one want to hump a monkey. Stay away from that one.
(rofl)

[AGR]

Originally posted by Kooldino


Wow, so you agree? Props for seeing our points and rethinking your view.

No. I'm humoring you! I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. As I have stated previously, I know nothing about these mods, or what they are capable of.

While children starve (somewhere) in this world, there is bickering about a few silly horsepower here and there. It saddens me so.

[AGR]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH


He just has a personality disorder. Half of his 12 personas think we are right, 5 think the Dyno is Dead on and one want to hump a monkey. Stay away from that one.
(rofl)

I here ya Yoda Boy!

[TURBO3WAGON]

ARG#7 = :'(

TURBO3WAGON = (drinks) (boobs) (usa)

CHILL, this is fun!

:D

[AGR]

Oh my! I do believe, I just shat myself.:eek:

[TURBO3WAGON]

Here man this round is on me.

(drinks) (cheers) (drinks) :D

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Kooldino


LOL, yes I understand that.

[B]

It's not. But the AMOUNT of power you guys are claiming is just silly to me.

[B]

Not quite. There's no doubt in my mind that I'm putting down more power than a stock MSP.

[B]

I do. Frequently. I am a member of a couple of Suby/DSM boards. And they don't get anywhere NEAR 50% extra WHP with exhaust, 2psi, and an intake. In fact, go post the original post in this thread on nasioc.com so they can all laugh at you. If you want an example, I have a friend w/ a WRX...he took it to the track while stock and ran low 14's. Then he did an MKiii BPM 3" turbo back exhaust with an up-pipe, etc etc and a JoeP MBC (which allowed him to get better boost in 1st gear as well). He added 2psi. I did drop his 1/4 mile time (on RACE GAS) a bit...down to a 13.8 or so. But if it gave him anywhere NEAR 50% extra WHP (for basically the same mods that you guys are claiming did on our car) then it would have EASILY put him in the low 13's. Just an example.

[B]

??? What negativity? It's a great car.

[B]

Excuse me for not trusting the dyno sheet. We've already had more info come out of the woodwork with the "boost spiking", etc. That right there should show that things are a little sketchy since that detail was originally left out. Who knows what other variables we don't know about.

Hey, since we are comparing different cars here- I had a 91 TSI AWD with nothing more than a K&N, 2.5" cat back, hollowed cat and MBC at 19 psi (stock is 12 or so) and I ran 12.9@102.. I got a hell of a lot more than 50% :).
Joe

[1sty]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


Hey, since we are comparing different cars here- I had a 91 TSI AWD with nothing more than a K&N, 2.5" cat back, hollowed cat and MBC at 19 psi (stock is 12 or so) and I ran 12.9@102.. I got a hell of a lot more than 50% :).
Joe

Sure with 7 more PSI. Not 2.

[PaulMP3]

Originally posted by Kooldino



Agreed. BUT, even Terry's ECU which is SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR HIS CAR only pulled 210 or so whp with a 16g @ 8psi and a nice FMIC. It's facts like that which make the claim seem so unreasonable.

[B]

:rolleyes:

he also has a 3" exhaust.;)

[1sty]

Not to mention full tubular manifod.

[PaulMP3]

When was the last time their dyno was calibrated? (they do need to be calibrated right?)

[Vicocola]

IF ONLY I HAVE MONEY!!! i could have stop this thread already by buying this turbo-back... and do a dyno with/ without it!! and then we'll know... but i dun have any money.... so y dun yall just chill for a bit.. until the next person that does it and maybe everybody chip in a buck for him to dyno... and then we can really tell if its right or not... just dun piss our potential leet producer away :( i still want this thing in my car either way... :p

[yashooa]

This Mother Fu*ker is still going!
What to say what to say?
OMG I must be near death! For the first time in my life I am speechless.
Either that or my Ritalin is actually working.
Hmm maybe if I take 4 days worth at once.
:eek: (rant) (sad1) (nervous) (stoned)

[yashooa]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH
Not to mention full tubular manifod.

Yes but it's that seat fabric that really gives you the edge.
You know coordinating interior colors can make all the difference in the world to a discriminating dyno.
Look for something in go-fast-Green, or AGR pink.

[pdhaudio83]

(attn) just an fyi, the mods are carefully watching this thread...

(gun)

[OrangeMSP]

got tired of reading stuff on this on page 8 but i agree with 1st MP3 in NH on his comments we do just have a MP3 with a turbo and i am one of thoes MSP owners that have taken off all the MSP stuff and started over with a FMIC to4eTurbo tublar manifold 3"turbo back exhaust Externalwastegate fuel and ignition ect......
if this 77hp is true im putting all my stock stuff back on tomorrow!!!:D

[AGR]

Originally posted by OrangeMSP
got tired of reading stuff on this on page 8 but i agree with 1st MP3 in NH on his comments we do just have a MP3 with a turbo and i am one of thoes MSP owners that have taken off all the MSP stuff and started over with a FMIC to4eTurbo tublar manifold 3"turbo back exhaust Externalwastegate fuel and ignition ect......
if this 77hp is true im putting all my stock stuff back on tomorrow!!!:D


mmm baby! And; I'm one of those MAZDASPEED owners that loves his MAZDASPEED - just like it is right now,,,just like it is right now sitting in my garage next to the totally stock Silver Bullet ES Protege my wife drives! Uh uh!!! ....Surrounded in AGR pink tafeta... Now someone for the love of God; GIVE ME A BIG KISS! (k)

[1sty]

Originally posted by pdhaudio
(attn) just an fyi, the mods are carefully watching this thread...

(gun)
THERES A MOD IN THE MSP SECTION!
AMAZING, can't be true, I can more easily accept the 77 whp claimed.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Kooldino


Agreed, but it will undoubtedly affect those dyno #'s.

[B]

I still don't believe the dyno, but at least it's closer to being possible in my eyes.

[B]

To me it makes a difference since the orignal claim was 9psi.

[B]

I hear ya, but Mazda spec is ~6.9psi, and a lot of members reported that number. There were HUGE debates about this before the MSP came out. Maybe a few people got 5psi, or maybe their boost gauge was hooked up wrong...who knows.


[B]

I'm not saying that he's making it up, I'm just saying that a 9psi MSP w/ an air filter and an exhaust isn't making 223 to the wheels.

"800"hp 4 bangers, eh? :p :D (note my quotes around the number...hehe)

OK, just got home..
1) I agree that it will affect dyno numbers
2) at least you are one step closer :)
3) I agree, but turbo cars never hold "rock steady" you can set it for 9 and it will creep to 11 or drop to 7- especially with internal swin gates
4) I have spoken to many who claimed 5 psi stock. I know spec is 6.9, but as mentioned by someone earlier, that may be the max it will see in certain conditions. My car would vary from 4.5 to 5.5 stock and yes, my boost gauge is hooked up correctly, If nothing else over the years, I hope I am capable of a boost gauge install- I mean that is the first step in building a 487 whp Talon :)
5) I'm through with this one
6) Yes, 800 HP four bangers. There is a world out there with more in it than 200 hp Proteges :).. A lot of us play with "real" cars in our spare time :).
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH
[2. No turbo car has ever seen gains like the % we are seeing via the MSP dyno sheet. Not honda, subaru or any other.
Enjoy! [/B]

Ummm... I have seen 75 plus whp gains with boost, K&N and full exhaust on DSM's.. Oh yeah, you also need to know how to tune too :).. I don't give a rats ass how old the MSP is- it is the tuning experience that matters.. If you know what you are doing, it doesn't matter what car you work your "magic" on.. Christ.. It is only a fucking 4 cylinder Mazda, not some exotic plutonium burning nuclear powered rocket ship that none of us have any knowledge of :)..
Joe

[1sty]

Originally posted by kwiktsi


Ummm... I have seen 75 plus whp gains with boost, K&N and full exhaust on DSM's.. Oh yeah, you also need to know how to tune too :).. I don't give a rats ass how old the MSP is- it is the tuning experience that matters.. If you know what you are doing, it doesn't matter what car you work your "magic" on.. Christ.. It is only a fucking 4 cylinder Mazda, not some exotic plutonium burning nuclear powered rocket ship that none of us have any knowledge of :)..
Joe

Ah and there it is, "with tuning".
An MSP with only 2 psi, exhuast and intake, has nothing to tune. nothing to tweak or dial in. The only thing you can do is up the bosst.

I highly doubt with an exhuast intake and 2 more psi then stock you got 77 whp on a dsm with no tuning.

[unwrittenLaw]

This is the love moderator..we need more love on this thread...

(hippy)(hippy)(hippy)(hippy)(hippy)

[AGR]

Yo Matt!!! I agree!! (k) (k) (k) (k) (k) (k) (k)

[tekkie]

Ok here is my thoughts on this 2 psi crap, most people as Joe has mentioned numerous times were only peaking at 7 and holding for a second or so. Most of the time the car is only pulling 5 - 5.5, since I installed my MBC it is peaking over 10 for a split second and then its holding at 9.5 pretty steady. That is a 4 psi increase not 2, if you read this thread numerous people have said the same thing, xsiv, Joe and myself are 3 of them.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH


Ah and there it is, "with tuning".
An MSP with only 2 psi, exhuast and intake, has nothing to tune. nothing to tweak or dial in. The only thing you can do is up the bosst.

I highly doubt with an exhuast intake and 2 more psi then stock you got 77 whp on a dsm with no tuning.


Let me rephrase that- slightly colder plugs, close the plug gaps and some free crap- no fuel controller or anything.. I am not saying that is what had to be done here also- I wasn't there. I can tell you though that if you boost a car and know from experience by how it is running that the plug's need to be regapped- you do it and don't consider it a mod, just common sense :rolleyes: ... However, My MSP has responded very well to the boost and exhaust with no "tuning" done at all- depending on weather. I have since dropped to fuel pressure a bit to lean it out up top and removed the weather strip from the backside of the hood to reduce underhood temps- now the car pull hard in all temps at all times. There is never a time where I hit it and it feels like a Hyundai on hot days. The only time my plugs were out was after a 11 psi run to 125mph to check for signs of detonation, so I doubt they had to do anything with this car..

My tuning comment was for the Turbo Protege guys making a lousy 200hp. I know a guy in FL with an 02 P5 with a T3, 2.5" exhaust, FMIC, etc. Typical turbo kit shit. He puts 237 to the wheels. You guys must be doing something wrong :D ....
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by kwiktsi



Let me rephrase that- slightly colder plugs, close the plug gaps and some free crap- no fuel controller or anything.. I am not saying that is what had to be done here also- I wasn't there. I can tell you though that if you boost a car and know from experience by how it is running that the plug's need to be regapped- you do it and don't consider it a mod, just common sense :rolleyes: ... However, My MSP has responded very well to the boost and exhaust with no "tuning" done at all- depending on weather. I have since dropped to fuel pressure a bit to lean it out up top and removed the weather strip from the backside of the hood to reduce underhood temps- now the car pull hard in all temps at all times. There is never a time where I hit it and it feels like a Hyundai on hot days. The only time my plugs were out was after a 11 psi run to 125mph to check for signs of detonation, so I doubt they had to do anything with this car..

My tuning comment was for the Turbo Protege guys making a lousy 200hp. I know a guy in FL with an 02 P5 with a T3, 2.5" exhaust, FMIC, etc. Typical turbo kit shit. He puts 237 to the wheels at 8 psi. You guys must be doing something wrong :D ....
Joe

Oops, that was supposed to be an edit, not a quote. I added here that the 237hp run was at 8 psi..
Joe

[kwiktsi]

(bang) (bang) (bang) (bang) (bang)

Damn people are clueless.. One question- yes, you have a turbo kit, yes, so do a couple others posting here- my question- aside from maybe bolting it on, what automotive/tuning/racing experience do you have. If you say just your car I am going to (nuts) and walk away shaking my head..

There is more to tuning a car than just bolting on a turbo kit that someone else makes after sevaral call to them about "where's this go?" I am the guy who designs and build his own turbo systems for his own projects, not buys someone else's. How many 1200 hp NSX powered tube chassis civics have you worked on?

I am tired of being told by people with no knowledge or experience what isn't possible.. Christ, it is ONLY 223 HP. he is not claiming 500.. Damn....
Joe

[Kenetix]

I'm gonna have to agree with Joe here. This is not some outrageous claim like everyone thinks. 77whp from a turbo back system can be accomplished. When I put mine on for my '93 RX-7, it dynoed out at 83whp from before the mod. Of course, I did do alot of tuning.

[unwrittenLaw]

I finally read this whole thread..wow my head hurts. Anyway, I just want to congratulate everyone on this, one of the more educating and entertaining threads on the forum....

Everyone needs to chill out though, I know its hard in heated debate..but as I'm not an expert on this topic..I can look at this objectivly.. sort of from the outside looking in.. and I think we should try to be more civil to eachother..maybe put some smilies after your more directed comments so others won't take them so seriously.

[2001GTI1.8T]

I have read through this whole thread since I am considering getting an MSP. Here are some of my experiences with a 1.8T that I think are relevant. Until someone comes up with a piggy back ECU, alternate ECU or something similar it's going to be hard to get those kind of numbers. The chip I put into my 1.8T netted 40whp alone, just ECU. This is due to the increased boost, about 7-9PSi and fuel mapping etc. A 2.5" turbo back exhaust only increased maybe 5-10whp, but it opened up the upper RPM area significantly over the stock exhaust. K&N or ITG panel filters work almost as well as a CAI, except CAI picks up more at higher speeds/rpms I have tried them all. Replacing the stock blowoff/diverter valve made a pretty big difference and is pretty much essential if you increase boost. The MSP uses the same block as the MP3 etc. which I think will be a problem in higer boost applications, it wasn't specifically redisgned for a turbo setup. Having said that, you couldn't get a better tuner than Reeves Callaway, his old kits for VW Rabbits were awesome and still sought after. To get 200whp and 232ft/lb torque I had to do the following; 2.5" TB stainless, Forge motorsports diverter valve, Neuspeed turbo inlet pipe, Velocity CAI, Upsolute ECU chip and Unorthodox lightened pullies. My car was 150bhp stock, and my mods cost about $3K canadian but quite a few were used. I think the MSP could be brought to 200 wheel relatively easily but you really need proper tuning and have to watch out for detonation. Why doesn't one of you hardcore guys go for a SDS system, screw the stock ECU. One more interesting note, I am still retaining my warranty because I can swap my stock ECU and chipped ECU in about 15mins with a laptop and Vag-Com software. It's only a matter of time before someone disects the Mazda ECU and does the same. Anyway for anyone who gets upset, I am just trying to learn more about the MSP and offer my personal experiences with a somewhat similar car/setup. :D

[perfworks]

Originally posted by 2001GTI1.8T
I have read through this whole thread since I am considering getting an MSP. Here are some of my experiences with a 1.8T that I think are relevant. Until someone comes up with a piggy back ECU, alternate ECU or something similar it's going to be hard to get those kind of numbers. The chip I put into my 1.8T netted 40whp alone, just ECU. This is due to the increased boost, about 7-9PSi and fuel mapping etc. A 2.5" turbo back exhaust only increased maybe 5-10whp, but it opened up the upper RPM area significantly over the stock exhaust. K&N or ITG panel filters work almost as well as a CAI, except CAI picks up more at higher speeds/rpms I have tried them all. Replacing the stock blowoff/diverter valve made a pretty big difference and is pretty much essential if you increase boost. The MSP uses the same block as the MP3 etc. which I think will be a problem in higer boost applications, it wasn't specifically redisgned for a turbo setup. Having said that, you couldn't get a better tuner than Reeves Callaway, his old kits for VW Rabbits were awesome and still sought after. To get 200whp and 232ft/lb torque I had to do the following; 2.5" TB stainless, Forge motorsports diverter valve, Neuspeed turbo inlet pipe, Velocity CAI, Upsolute ECU chip and Unorthodox lightened pullies. My car was 150bhp stock, and my mods cost about $3K canadian but quite a few were used. I think the MSP could be brought to 200 wheel relatively easily but you really need proper tuning and have to watch out for detonation. Why doesn't one of you hardcore guys go for a SDS system, screw the stock ECU. One more interesting note, I am still retaining my warranty because I can swap my stock ECU and chipped ECU in about 15mins with a laptop and Vag-Com software. It's only a matter of time before someone disects the Mazda ECU and does the same. Anyway for anyone who gets upset, I am just trying to learn more about the MSP and offer my personal experiences with a somewhat similar car/setup. :D
Nice post man.
about your SDS (simple digital systems) comment.
They are a little outdated in there software IMO. (please dont flame anyone i said my opinion)
because i am not a fan of MAP based fuel and ignition curves. I have used them in the past and dont like the set up much. I am in the process of tuning a module that interfaces with the stock ecu to controll fuel , timing and boost. This will be available for any vehicle and performance level. You can read about my build up under the photo/video section of this forum. The thread is entitled " pics of my girlfriends"
BTW it will be used in conjunction with all stock sensors and use either stock or my upgraded MAF meter.

[2001GTI1.8T]

Originally posted by perfworks

Nice post man.
about your SDS (simple digital systems) comment.
They are a little outdated in there software IMO. (please dont flame anyone i said my opinion)
because i am not a fan of MAP based fuel and ignition curves. I have used them in the past and dont like the set up much. I am in the process of tuning a module that interfaces with the stock ecu to controll fuel , timing and boost. This will be available for any vehicle and performance level. You can read about my build up under the photo/video section of this forum. The thread is entitled " pics of my girlfriends"
BTW it will be used in conjunction with all stock sensors and use either stock or my upgraded MAF meter.

That is true about SDS, but I have seen some great numbers and nice dyno plots from average cars running SDS. A guy in our group with SDS is running 142whp on a MK3 jetta 2L with a ghetto MK2 turbo diesel manifold, tiny stock TD turbo and no intercooler. He's still trying to tune it as well, we were at Dynopower in Toronto last week inhaling rich exhaust fumes! :D Your idea sounds great, best of luck with it.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by unwrittenLaw
..maybe put some smilies after your more directed comments so others won't take them so seriously.

Some one takes me seriously?
Damn get them some meds stat!
:mad: (rant) (no) (bicker) (fight)

Oh wait those weren't smiles (glare)

[orangezoom]

I will teel you whem I get mone I dynoed my car stock and Got what the factory said about 176 to flywheel I put an Injen intake on and I am not going to boost yet I put A greddy boost gauge in nmy pillar and it said I am running right around 7 pounds of boost stock. I ordered a Magnus exhaust because of there reputation and when I install it I will dyno again. I am not boosting till I get my manual from Mazda (which might take forever). I found that the fuel runs rich in some spots and lean in other. Once I get the manual and piggy back we should get some good results. Then comes the Boost

[tritonheat1]

To all the Believer's and non believer's, I think in some categories you are right on some subject's. But to really say that the MSP can't yield 77WHP gain's on a few simple mods, is ridiculous. I mean not to get off topic or nothing, but that's just like saying a RSX-S won't gain 30-35WHP to the wheels with just, CAI, Exhaust, header, and chip. :rolleyes: There's really no comment on that one, when you know you can't doubt it. OK a N/A 4-cylinder with mod's just produced 30-35whp to the wheels. Ya you're right there will be no argument to what the RSX-S put down, because people already know that the Car produces 200Hp from the factory and because acura's/hondas are known for gaining hp with minor mods, because of it's nameplate. Now when the MSP steps in,it's like ohh okk it's a Protege MP3 with just a Garrett "tiny" T-25 turbo slapped on it. "NO, that's not how it work's. For the non-believer's that haven't seen a dyno sheet or a videolink or audio, i'm pretty sure that the tiny T-25 spools alot faster than a T3/T4 or any other TD04. I mean this has been discussed before and every member on this board knows what there car are capable of when you try to modify it or not, i mean yeah the MSP's 6.9PSI quote is like peaking steady for a second and most people are steady at 4.5-5.5psi,to jump to 9psi is alot of boost. I think that alone will add 35-45whp. also to add a 3''full dp exhaust and a K&N cone filter all together might add up to 77Whp i mean it's really not that hard to believe. We are talking about forced induction here no matter what kind of turbo it is, it will yield more gains than a N/A car will. look at Joe's 1/4mile #'s he's in the low 14's with minor Mod's i don't hear anyone complaining or whinning about his quarter mile time. Same with lawerence look at his sig, he is barely running slower than joe with minor mods and no one is complaining about his quarter time either. Look at what NcMp3 1/4mile time was 14.3@ 6pSI he has 3times the mods than Joe or lawerence and they are running 2-3psi more than ncMp3 and minor mod's and running the same 1/4mile time. So what's hard to believe???? That just tells you that the MSP is capable of doing better than a aftermarket TurboMP3 can do. look at the mods big-ben, spoolinMP3, NCMp3, Adam3425?? has. There times are not to far off of an MSP with Minor mods.:eek: catch my drift. Or do i have to break it down for some of you.:rolleyes:

[Wesman]

Wow XSIVSPD has incited a riot on this thread, time to add my two cents. I have had a ride in his car and have played chase with him for 100 miles, +77 hp is entirely on the level. I have also seen the dyno sheet. My car with two little mods (XZ MBC & FPR) has become almost unrecognizable with the hammer down (thanks JoeP). Angry is the term that I would use to describe it. As fun as mine is, XSIVSPD's car can take off from me even with extra people in his car. We played chase from zero to the limiter and acceleration above 100mph is stunning. The sound from his exhaust is great too, think WRC rally car. No hard numbers, but watching taillights get smaller makes you a believer. HP is fun.

[subaruwrx]

Woah, the NA mp3 guys are pretty lame. Its easier to get power from a Turbo car.

Why are you getting so pissed?

Joe is right. You cannot just add up 40 hp (~10 hp for each psi) for the boost, 20 for the exhaust and 5 for the intake. Its how everything works together. The intake will make the exhaust work more efficiently. Thinking about it, this is not such an outrageous claim. True? I dont know. I dont care. It is possible. How is that so hard to believe?

Also, 1st, please do a spell check and grammar check before posting. It makes you sound stupid when you are using words that dont exist.
--Adam

[low_psi]

getting a racing beat turbo back exhaust(may be another brand) yields 62whp on an FC TurboII Rx-7. you have to have a damn fuel cut defender cause it increases the boost soo much. the fact is, his numbers aren't lying. similar numbers have been made on small motor, small turbo, low boost(under 1bar) setups so why can't you believe it on a msp?

joe makes a good point too, its only 223, nothing that's gonna be smoking a SS camaro :p

[1sty]

Originally posted by subaruwrx
Woah, the NA mp3 guys are pretty lame. Its easier to get power from a Turbo car.

Why are you getting so pissed?

Joe is right. You cannot just add up 40 hp (~10 hp for each psi) for the boost, 20 for the exhaust and 5 for the intake. Its how everything works together. The intake will make the exhaust work more efficiently. Thinking about it, this is not such an outrageous claim. True? I dont know. I dont care. It is possible. How is that so hard to believe?

Also, 1st, please do a spell check and grammar check before posting. It makes you sound stupid when you are using words that dont exist.
--Adam

What about the TURBO MP3 guys?
Why don't you spell check for me, you can be my new secretary.

[Kooldino]

Bumping an old thread just so you guys can see how silly it was. :)

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by Kooldino
Bumping an old thread just so you guys can see how silly it was. :)

Oh boy... Here we go-"he's lying", "his car is slow", "there is NO WAY"... Lol, it is pretty dumb looking back as it has been repeated several times :).
Joe

[low_psi]

MEMORIES!!! :)

[Notorious]

I seen 50 hp increase with nothing but increasing the boost to 11 psi.

[lamp3]

did his dyno ever get posted in that mess??

[skilletrx]

lol dammit.. i jus spent 30 min going thru each page lookin for the dyno =(

[girth]

Ahhh, one of my favorite threads of all time. It's even funnier now that there have been some unkind words from people around here about MagnusMotorsports.

[chitownballer]

joe is right all the way, i dynoed my car at 212 whp with MBC at 9.5psi, intake and d/p

[Black Majik MSP]

Can't believe I just read 16 pages of arguing only to realize this thread started months ago.

1. This has been asked numerous times, but did that dyno ever get posted?

2. Does anyone have pics of the muffler? I'd like to know what a slash cut 4" tip looks like.

3. The MM exhaust has the adaptor to hook up to the stock dp, so you still need to replace that too, right?

[YuYuRena]

Hey Joe is actually posting alot again. is it because of that mustang not giving you enough trouble? or you're missing the MSP crowd??:D

About this subject, this "result" is very subjective. First no one on this board has shown me a validated Compressor and Turbine map. I can not vouch nor disclaim the result withou knowing how the performance of this turbo is at with the given amount of work from the exhaust stream translated into pressure ratio and flow capacity. I don't think you guys should get on this guy, maybe he was able to run this car on a dyno that has a bias for higher dyno #, or ran on a day that has a more 'favorable' weather than the mag dyno at. let's have some love on the board and cheer him on for actually making and developing parts for MSP.

Keep up the good work and can't wait to hear more about it.

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by girth
Ahhh, one of my favorite threads of all time. It's even funnier now that there have been some unkind words from people around here about MagnusMotorsports.

What has happened with Magnus? They have a very good reputation that I am aware of and Marco is a really cool guy to deal with :confused:
Joe

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by YuYuRena
Hey Joe is actually posting alot again. is it because of that mustang not giving you enough trouble? or you're missing the MSP crowd??:D


naahh, just had some spare time finally.
Joe

[Karl Marx]

Arg.. damn bumps :).. i read through the whole thing wanting to find out more info....
god its a sad thread... all the bitching going on and at the end theres no proof of right or wrong.

Btw isn't Magnus those guys that some people here got a exhaust from that didn't fit?

So if this is an old thread, i guess there's alot of 223 whp MSP's running around that made these mods since they are really cheap. No? ( Edit: Sarcasm ).

[505zoom]

WHY GOD WHY!?!?!?!

This thread is crap. Some of you made the statement that there was no resolution? Well in my eyes, there is no question that a 77hp gain is :bs:

He did not baseline the car and that makes these runs totally worthless. He uses a baseline from another car and says that he gained 77hp:rolleyes: what a joke.

While it might be possible to put down 223whp with these mods, xsivspd and magnus prove how foolish they are by comparing their own #'s with some that are from a different car, taken from a different dyno, hell it was even in a completely different city, state, and country. Do you think that the conditions in California are at all comparable to Ontario???

I have the Magnus exhaust. It sounds great, but I don't see any reason that a 77hp gain should be mentioned in a thread about your exhaust, when you say you also have a mbc, intake etc. Your exhaust did not add 77hp to your car.

Had you done a baseline with YOUR CAR, WITHOUT THE EXHAUST on the dyno in Scarborough, then you would have some #'s to make a comparison with. Hell you could have even just entitled this thread "223whp".

[GREATG]

505zoom get a grip. You own the damn thing, and you still don't believe the power numbers? Go to the farking dyno yourself and prove him wrong then!

[505zoom]

Like I said, the 223whp is believable, but comparing that to another car's dyno run is pointless.

[GotBoost]

:wtf: is all this :bs: I just wasted 30 minutes. oh well time to go lay some fucking rubber down

[EvilMSP]

Seriously, I just wasted so much time reading this crap.

[doggman]

What the hell happened to the dyno sheet. this thread has gone on forever and their is still NOOO DYNO SHEET. i thouhgt that the dyno sheet was sapposed to be loaded by now. i would love to believe your claims but there is simply no proof. you could have ended this inner mazda bickering along time ago if you would've just put up the dyno sheet. soo to prove your claims post the damn dyno sheet and get this over with.
-dave

[ND4MSP]

thats funny this is an old thread. Just wanted to add that if 77 whp is possible with those mods I'll downright puke the next time I hear about a slip in the 15's, elevation, temp I don't give a shit. I've never been to a track, so maybe I shouldn't talk. But how many times has someone had exh. running at least 10psi pulled something in mid to low 15's

[kwiktsi]

Originally posted by ND4MSP
thats funny this is an old thread. Just wanted to add that if 77 whp is possible with those mods I'll downright puke the next time I hear about a slip in the 15's, elevation, temp I don't give a shit. I've never been to a track, so maybe I shouldn't talk. But how many times has someone had exh. running at least 10psi pulled something in mid to low 15's

lol- just about as many as the ones that ran low 14's with the same mods :). Just turning the boost up and modding doesn't make the car fast- driving helps too :).
Joe

[kazson]

damn thing was posted months ago!??! dern it !:wtf:

[orangezoom]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH
And this is with T25 turbo unmodified?

I have to be honest here in that I smell total BULLSHIT!

Terry, running an MP3 with a full 3" exhuast, no cats, links management system, and a G16 turbo, not a tiny T25 was barely running that at 8 PSI!

I have not dynoed my car yet, I am waiting for fuel manage, but this exhaust is amazing. I have not turned up the boost at all but my car is a lot faster then before.

[orangezoom]

Originally posted by 505zoom
WHY GOD WHY!?!?!?!

This thread is crap. Some of you made the statement that there was no resolution? Well in my eyes, there is no question that a 77hp gain is :bs:

He did not baseline the car and that makes these runs totally worthless. He uses a baseline from another car and says that he gained 77hp:rolleyes: what a joke.

While it might be possible to put down 223whp with these mods, xsivspd and magnus prove how foolish they are by comparing their own #'s with some that are from a different car, taken from a different dyno, hell it was even in a completely different city, state, and country. Do you think that the conditions in California are at all comparable to Ontario???

I have the Magnus exhaust. It sounds great, but I don't see any reason that a 77hp gain should be mentioned in a thread about your exhaust, when you say you also have a mbc, intake etc. Your exhaust did not add 77hp to your car.

Had you done a baseline with YOUR CAR, WITHOUT THE EXHAUST on the dyno in Scarborough, then you would have some #'s to make a comparison with. Hell you could have even just entitled this thread "223whp".

i have done a baseline with mine stock was 149