READ THIS!Downpipe,Test pipe and FMIC info

[ForceFed]

Hey you guys ,it's me again with an update on these things.OK heres some info for you guys who are questioning what can and cant be done to these cars (exhaust and intercooler wise).I took my car up to my exhaust hook-up on Fri. and got my MSP up on the lift to see what we had to work with and we came up with this.
The downpipe is not real small and has an imediate 90 degree bend out of the turbo,it's only about 12 inches in total length and it is made of cast iron(THERE IS NOT A CAT IN THIS PIPE OR O2 SENSOR!)There is not an O2 sensor housing like ive heard someone on this board refer to so we cant do port work to something thats not there(less work to do).The pre-cat and cat are in the same pipe and there is 1 O2 sensor between them,This should be an easy pipe to make as long as we can come up with the right flange that mounts to the DP.The rear flange can be fabbed but not the front one to the DP.From the Cat back there is 2 sections ,1 from the rear of cat to just over the rear axle area where it meets the rear muffler section and piping.Anyone who wants a different muffler should be able to buy the muffler of their choice and have a local and willing exhaust shop fab up the piping to meet the intermediate piping.
OK now on to the FMIC ,I didn't meet with the guy who is going to fab this kit on Sat. because we didn't complete the exhaust portion of the MSP.(so this is on temporary hold till we figure out the flange issue which should only take a couple of days ?)On another note i did talk on the phone on Wed. with Terry from Spool about his kit and me getting it so i can modify the piping to work on the MSP's.This may be a better option because the kit is almost a complete kit minus the turbo to intercooler pipe issue.(If you read this Terry expect a call from me on Mon. A.M.)I want to get ahold of his kit to see if we can get it to fit without cutting up the bumper support and if we do have to cut it like it is now i would like to reinforce it.(too many idiots on the road not to have it )Thats all i got for now ,hope this clears up a few Q's and gets some of you more informed.And as always i am always open to suggestions and input from you guys.If there is something you guys want made ,let it be known on this board or contact me ,I know a lot of people in this industry and I seem to get things done . Thanx,Matt:cool: LATA!

[Turbo Matty P]

Hey, I'm pretty new to the group so I don't know anyone's name just yet. I'm Matt from B'ham AL and I'm making a custom FMIC for our cars using the exsisting intercooler and most of the piping if I can help it. The stock intercooler isn't that bad, it's the location thats bad. Also, I've tried wiring a switch to the secondary cooling fan to run continuously. This really helped in city-driving. The fan stayed on and cooled off the intercooler as long as the car was running. Honestly though, not a noticeable gain in anything. I think placing the intercooler outside and front of the engine well will offer the cheapest, most reasonable form of cooling. Hell, who's going to run more than 15psi on their brand new car anyway? I'm looking to make as much power as I can without adjusting the boost level. Adding a lrager intercooler means sacrificing 1-2psi. On our cars that's not going to be acceptable. I'll let you know how I progress. I'm almost to the installation phase now and should have some dyno runs to go along with this. Let me know if you have any advise.

Turbo

[BlackMSP]

Originally posted by Turbo Matty P
Adding a lrager intercooler means sacrificing 1-2psi. On our cars that's not going to be acceptable.
Turbo

not if u have a boost controller...

[perfworks]

were you talking about the pressure drop thru the cooler?
how much do you think your losing now?

[Turbo Matty P]

Do you HONESTLY want to void your warranty raising the boost of the motor when there's so much that can be done at the stock level? It doesn't make any sense to throw out 50K mils worth of FREE because you don't have the patience to reroute your intercooler. Moving the intercooler, adding the INJEN intake and a bleed-off valve should be more than enough to run&gun with the locals.

[Turbo Matty P]

I'm fairly sure there's almost no pressure drop through the intercooler. It's tiny, has a large cooling section and has decent inlets and outlets. The problem with the intercooler isn't it's size or lack of polish it's the location. I'm also going to be adding a small electric cooling fan from a 1990 Escort to the back of the intercooler toggled to a switch on the dash for extra cooling even in traffic. Does this not make more sense than cranking the boost on a STOCK N/A block??

[perfworks]

matty i agree with you on the inducer fan
i have that set up on my p5
great for city driving
but any repiping of the intercooler wont void the warrenty???
you can just start making mods to the stock plumbing and expect the dealer to say O.K. yeah we should have put it there!!
doesnt work like that
any way i am curious if you have flowed the stock intercoller
a FMIC will be alot more efficient than the stock one and i doudt that much of a pressure drop if the unit is a top to bottom feed.
hes not talking about raising the boost level. hes talking about maintaining it

[ForceFed]

Any modification to the intercooler set-up will prob void or at least get you a hassle from the dealer.(so you might want to think about that when you are thinking of re-routing the factory intercooler)is it wreally worth it?The intercooler was not designed specifically for our cars(did you know that?)It was for a diesel car,but that doesnt mean it isnt good it just means we can improve on it!:D

[boostisgood]

Relocating the Factory IC is more of a hassle then its worth. The Factory Ic is part of the whole Radiator Assy. Removing it would mean you have to fab new mounts for the radiator to mount up on the drivers side. Good luck with that one.

Also, I would belive that a 80-90 pecent efficeint intercooler would not see a major drop in the boost level. the cooling of the charge to ambient temps would more then make up for that. I would find it hard to believe that a larger FMIC would cause a drop of 1-2 PSI. maybe a few hundreths but not a whole PSI.
Just my $0.02

:D

[I-Am-Chris]

Originally posted by Turbo Matty P
Do you HONESTLY want to void your warranty raising the boost of the motor when there's so much that can be done at the stock level? It doesn't make any sense to throw out 50K mils worth of FREE because you don't have the patience to reroute your intercooler. Moving the intercooler, adding the INJEN intake and a bleed-off valve should be more than enough to run&gun with the locals.

Yeah cause that wouldnt void your warr. One bit!!!!:rolleyes: Anyways some people arent satisfied with their cars and like to tune them to the way they see fit. IMO these cars has lots of potential (minus the rods). Which I plan on fully exploiting. Bleed-off valve for what???? again the word mod and warr. should not be in the same sentence. and why would you spend all that money to reroute it and not upgrade it?? thats kind of pointless.

[I-Am-Chris]

Originally posted by ForceFed


Yeah thats how alot of the cars usually r from the factory. A downpipe usually includes the turbo elbow and elimantes the first or only cat all in one pipe.

[I-Am-Chris]

Originally posted by Turbo Matty P
I'm fairly sure there's almost no pressure drop through the intercooler. It's tiny, has a large cooling section and has decent inlets and outlets. The problem with the intercooler isn't it's size or lack of polish it's the location. I'm also going to be adding a small electric cooling fan from a 1990 Escort to the back of the intercooler toggled to a switch on the dash for extra cooling even in traffic. Does this not make more sense than cranking the boost on a STOCK N/A block??

Yeah its pretty stock except for all the fuel it dumps on the motor. and. You dont need a bulletproof motor to run boost. Its called tuning (which they did a halfass job on IMO) but hey it works and it hauls. Plus it has the right A/f's to crank the boost.

[I-Am-Chris]

sorry again for the off-topic posting

[LinuxRacr]

Originally posted by I-Am-Chris
sorry again for the off-topic posting

You should be!:mad: (laugh) <----JOKE!

[Turbo Matty P]

Dude, I don't think you read one word I said. turning the boost up on the motor DOES void your warranty. If you have a dealership that won't void your warranty for taking the boost up, you let me know. I called my dealership here and they told me adding a BOV would void mine. I told them to suck nuts and give me the manager. After MUCH hassle they agreed with me that BOV added no performance gain, just sound and smoothness. However they told me OFFICIALLY that any part added to the car would void that particular pieces warranty. i.e. downpipe would void exhaust warranty, boost would void motor. I would LOVE to talk to the dealer who is going to repair my MSP under warranty when I tow it in with a blown motor, 19psi boost, custom intake, custom downpipe, custom intercooler. I'm sure they're just going to look at it and assume I used it to get groceries for my grandmother who only drove the cars on sunday no more than 10 minutes. How dumb can you be? As far as relocating the intercooler, it in no way creates undo strain on the motor. In fact it would help if anything to lower temperatures. As far as moving it goes, nothing is changed only position. For instance seat position. If the dealer installs the seat in the most upright position closest to the steering wheel because it's "safer" it doesn't mean you can't adjust it to a more beneficial position for the indivdual driver. It retains all of the stock componants <with the exception of some cheap plastic tubing. I've already run this by my dealer and they want to see the completed FMIC before making a decision. Think this stuff through before totally being assinign about it. I'm all for big power from small motors <I have 2 2.3L turbo motors making over 250rwhp each> It's just not smart to throw away a realy good warranty on a car thats more than able from the factory! Is anyone on this board over the age of 20???

[2K3 MSP]

Okay...you just lost a lot of respect from me for that last post...I agree that relocating the stock intercooler WILL void the warranty...IF you could relocate it without removing or disconnecting the stock pipes, then yes, the warranty will remain. But if you have to use aftermarket pipes, and disconnect any of the one-time use clamps, then you tampered with the engine. Don't compare that to a seat. The seat was made to be adjusted. thats why it has handles and knobs. If the intercooler was meant to be moved, they wouldnt have bolted it down :D And by the way, there are A LOT of us here over 20, so what does that have to do with your post??

[LinuxRacr]

Of course they still have to proove that a mod did in fact kill the engine.

[redrims]

Originally posted by Turbo Matty P
Is anyone on this board over the age of 20???

I will be. Next year.;)

[Turbo Matty P]

Uh oh, someone I don't know whom I'll never meet lost respect for me! As far as my post was concerned I was only trying to make some of the kiddies realize that cranking up the boost will eventually cause problems and it WILL void your warranty. That's at every dealership. However after talking to mine they told me they don't think relocating the STOCK intercooler would be a hassle. He did tell me that they would not repair any damages caused to it by road debris or poor support, but using the stock componants in a different location wasn't a big deal. I'm just making a point about the young "Fast and Furious" mentality of this board. I guess you guys don't have mortgage payments, kids on the way, bills out the ass, and work 52+ hrs /wk. That's the stuff I deal with and voiding my warranty ISN'T an option right now. Achieving maximum effeciency <not performance> while retaining the warranty is my top priority. If you guys want to just fry the whels off, go buy an MP5 without a warranty and Turbo the shit out of it. I'll let you in on a secret though. You won't get far on that block. And while you guys may be a second or so faster than me in the quarter mile, I'll be enjoying the peace of mind that comes with having 4 years of no maintaince.

[LinuxRacr]

Good points. Just for the record, you were doing great with your post until you said that everyone has that "FF" mentality here. While your reasoning is understandable, let's try to keep this thread out of the flamewars section. I've see some good threads go down because of some swelled up egos, and I don't want to see this one get there. Everyone kool?:cool:

[2K3 MSP]

The "Fast and Furious" mentality extends far beyond the teenagers...The dealership can tell you whatever they "think" is okay right now, but if you mess up your car, I'd like to see them say"Oh, don't worry about the blown motor, we told you it was okay to mod. your car"...

[NC_MP3]

It would be hard to do a FMIC without cutting the core support. I don't remember exactly what it looks like, but you may be able to take the pipe out and go up through the hole that is right in front of the wheels. It would come up right where the coolant catch tank thing is. This is where CAI's go down. Dunno if you can do that on the passenger side.

I would just cut the core support. It isn't hard and doesn't hurt a thing. I cut mine and it almost looks factory.

I would not spend money on a downpipe that just goes to the 1st cat. It sounds like the stock downpipe is not that bad. 90 degree bend out of a downpipe is OK, as long as it is a bend and not a turn. You will see no gains by making a downpipe to the 1st cat. If you get one made just get one that replaces 1st cat. If you are worried about emissions just take out the 2nd cat as well and get a good quality single put down below the car.

Or do like me and run 3 inch exhaust with no cats :)

If you guys want to do a front mount or a bov I would have someone remake the intercooler pipes.

Also a fan behind an intercooler will hurt you. You want air to flow through the fins as easy as possible. If you put anything behind it, then it hurts your flow. You will also get dead spots where the fan is. The blades would turn, but the parts that are solid would make dead spots.

If you want to rig up something cheap reroute your windshield sprayers to spary water onto the intercooler, thats a cool cheap mod. You can fill the resoiver with ice water when you go racing.

Also about the flanges you can buy standard turbine flanges from any place that sells turbos. Get a downpipe flange for a T25 or whatever it is you guys have.

[perfworks]

Originally posted by Turbo Matty P
Uh oh, someone I don't know whom I'll never meet lost respect for me! As far as my post was concerned I was only trying to make some of the kiddies realize that cranking up the boost will eventually cause problems and it WILL void your warranty. That's at every dealership. However after talking to mine they told me they don't think relocating the STOCK intercooler would be a hassle. He did tell me that they would not repair any damages caused to it by road debris or poor support, but using the stock componants in a different location wasn't a big deal. I'm just making a point about the young "Fast and Furious" mentality of this board. I guess you guys don't have mortgage payments, kids on the way, bills out the ass, and work 52+ hrs /wk. That's the stuff I deal with and voiding my warranty ISN'T an option right now. Achieving maximum effeciency <not performance> while retaining the warranty is my top priority. If you guys want to just fry the whels off, go buy an MP5 without a warranty and Turbo the shit out of it. I'll let you in on a secret though. You won't get far on that block. And while you guys may be a second or so faster than me in the quarter mile, I'll be enjoying the peace of mind that comes with having 4 years of no maintaince.

first of all for some one who said they dont know any one here you sure talk (type) like you do with that ignorant attitude
as a matter of fact dippy many people here are over the age of 20 but i didnt know that there was an age verification needed for common sense
second you are the only one talking about increasing boost!!!!!
especially 19psi !!!!
we were discusing efficiency at stock levels
third the dealer will tell you anything you want to know to shut you up because i can only imagine if you walked in there with that attitude i would tell you you were mother teresa to shut you up
four if you have all those bills ,work your ass off, and have kids, etc then maybe you should seek proffesional anger management or a shrink instead of venting in a forum full of people who are here to enjoy there experience and learn something from others and talk about there cars in a logical , peaceful and civilized manner

P.S. what the hell does a seat have to do with relocating the intercooler!!
:confused:

[perfworks]

sorry linux ! i posted after and didnt see what you said:(

[redrims]

Originally posted by Turbo Matty P
Uh oh, someone I don't know whom I'll never meet lost respect for me! As far as my post was concerned I was only trying to make some of the kiddies realize that cranking up the boost will eventually cause problems and it WILL void your warranty. That's at every dealership. However after talking to mine they told me they don't think relocating the STOCK intercooler would be a hassle. He did tell me that they would not repair any damages caused to it by road debris or poor support, but using the stock componants in a different location wasn't a big deal. I'm just making a point about the young "Fast and Furious" mentality of this board. I guess you guys don't have mortgage payments, kids on the way, bills out the ass, and work 52+ hrs /wk. That's the stuff I deal with and voiding my warranty ISN'T an option right now. Achieving maximum effeciency <not performance> while retaining the warranty is my top priority. If you guys want to just fry the whels off, go buy an MP5 without a warranty and Turbo the shit out of it. I'll let you in on a secret though. You won't get far on that block. And while you guys may be a second or so faster than me in the quarter mile, I'll be enjoying the peace of mind that comes with having 4 years of no maintaince.

Its alright bro., I agree with you and I know where you're coming from...

But just because you are young doesn't mean that you have no responsibilities.

I'm in college full time at UMD, majoring in Mechanical Engineering, minoring in criminal justice, after finishing long class schedules I usually have about 5 hours worth of homework do, essays on top of essays, lab reports, design and floor plans for ARCH class, AND on top of that I'm a store manager trying to fit in at least 20hrs a week. Because I HAVE BILLS TOO. Car note, phone bill, and I'm almost done paying the school off.


I wouldn't want a child right now (to young), can't worry about morgage (I live on campus)
What's wrong with my parents taking care of a few things? They are more experienced than me, have more money than me, and I'm not OFFICIALLY on my own yet. I'm glad I have parents who love me enough to save my butt when I'm in a grind.

If someone wants to risk there warranty, that's on them...don't bash them for thier decision. Giving advice is good, but not making ppl sound like morons.

[redrims]

You say you are older, but your attitude is just as quick as my little brothers.

No need to get upset from someone elses point of view...

[2K3 MSP]

Originally posted by redrims


I wouldn't want a child right now (to young), can't worry about morgage (I live on campus)
What's wrong with my parents taking care of a few things? They are more experienced than me, have more money than me, and I'm not OFFICIALLY on my own yet. I'm glad I have parents who love me enough to save my butt when I'm in a grind.


AMEN, BROTHA!!!

[perfworks]

red who are you refering to?

[boostisgood]

Turbo Matty P,

First and foremost, i can do what ever i want to my car, and not void the warranty. There are laws that protect consumers in this right. goto www.sema.org and look it up. turning the boost up does not automatically void your warranty. If you blow a rod cause you did, then yes your wqarrant is shot.

If I add an FMIC, and my master cylinder goes bad, they gotta fix the cylinder because the FMIC was not directly related to the warranty issue.

You can even get this info from your Consumer Warranty guide that came with your car. Please educate yourself before you come on here and start ranting a raving about things. An educated argument is worth more then plain old flaming.

[redrims]

Originally posted by perfworks
red who are you refering to?

Yo Mamma..sike j/k

to Turbo Matty P...

I'm not venting, just giving some insight.


This is funny...(laugh) Like 10 post in the last 2 minutes...lol

[perfworks]

:D

[yashooa]

Hey Im an old fart am I allowed to act stupid?
Heck AGR probaly has foot in a "rest facility" already :)
I dont know how much I am willing to do to my car until warranty is gone after that, well if something breaks Im screwed anyway so boost it!
BTW Man did this thread go off topic.

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

yeah i still wanna know bout the fmic, dp, and test pipe. :D

[ForceFed]

Originally posted by Turbo Matty P
Uh oh, someone I don't know whom I'll never meet lost respect for me! As far as my post was concerned I was only trying to make some of the kiddies realize that cranking up the boost will eventually cause problems and it WILL void your warranty. That's at every dealership. However after talking to mine they told me they don't think relocating the STOCK intercooler would be a hassle. He did tell me that they would not repair any damages caused to it by road debris or poor support, but using the stock componants in a different location wasn't a big deal. I'm just making a point about the young "Fast and Furious" mentality of this board. I guess you guys don't have mortgage payments, kids on the way, bills out the ass, and work 52+ hrs /wk. That's the stuff I deal with and voiding my warranty ISN'T an option right now. Achieving maximum effeciency <not performance> while retaining the warranty is my top priority. If you guys want to just fry the whels off, go buy an MP5 without a warranty and Turbo the shit out of it. I'll let you in on a secret though. You won't get far on that block. And while you guys may be a second or so faster than me in the quarter mile, I'll be enjoying the peace of mind that comes with having 4 years of no maintaince.
:wtf: I guess you think you are just smarter than everyone on this board huh?:bs: I have a mortgage,a FT job and guess what ass ,i even have a PT job.Oh and to boot I'm 25 yrs. of age.For you condemning everyone for their own opinions and talking about your superior responsibleness(if thats a word,you get the point)you seem to be very ignorant and narrow minded.IF YOU DONT WANT TO VOID YOUR WARRANTY , THEN DONT !:mad: But dont try to tell us how to tune our cars!you do yours your way and we will do it the way we see fit!If you come on this board with the attitude you have i would suggest that you go find a new place to play!(flame) I dont know if its just me but does any one else have a prob with the holy 'er than though attitude?:confused: I've spoken my mind how bout the rest of y'all?

[I-Am-Chris]

Originally posted by Turbo Matty P
Dude, I don't think you read one word I said. turning the boost up on the motor DOES void your warranty. If you have a dealership that won't void your warranty for taking the boost up, you let me know. I called my dealership here and they told me adding a BOV would void mine. I told them to suck nuts and give me the manager. After MUCH hassle they agreed with me that BOV added no performance gain, just sound and smoothness. However they told me OFFICIALLY that any part added to the car would void that particular pieces warranty. i.e. downpipe would void exhaust warranty, boost would void motor. I would LOVE to talk to the dealer who is going to repair my MSP under warranty when I tow it in with a blown motor, 19psi boost, custom intake, custom downpipe, custom intercooler. I'm sure they're just going to look at it and assume I used it to get groceries for my grandmother who only drove the cars on sunday no more than 10 minutes. How dumb can you be? As far as relocating the intercooler, it in no way creates undo strain on the motor. In fact it would help if anything to lower temperatures. As far as moving it goes, nothing is changed only position. For instance seat position. If the dealer installs the seat in the most upright position closest to the steering wheel because it's "safer" it doesn't mean you can't adjust it to a more beneficial position for the indivdual driver. It retains all of the stock componants <with the exception of some cheap plastic tubing. I've already run this by my dealer and they want to see the completed FMIC before making a decision. Think this stuff through before totally being assinign about it. I'm all for big power from small motors <I have 2 2.3L turbo motors making over 250rwhp each> It's just not smart to throw away a realy good warranty on a car thats more than able from the factory! Is anyone on this board over the age of 20???

Wow ok. I never said that raising the boost wouldnt void your warr. Where in the HELL did u get that??? Yeah why dont you cry about it some more. That we r a bunch of young punks who dont know shit. Have you stuck the car on a wideband?? HUMMMM oh yeah. I cranked my boost big deal, shit i guess i need to start looking for a new car now! lol
Is anyone on this board over the age of 20??? haha yeah i'm one. What does that have to do about anything. Shit I work anywhere from 40 - 60 hr a week full time , on salary, with benifets. oh yeah and i'm 21.

Again you r trying to tell me that taking the stock intercooler, redoing all the piping, replacing it with custom aftermarket ones, remounting it in a different position will not void your warr. ? man pass that shit cause it sounds killer!

If you guys want to just fry the whels off, go buy an MP5 without a warranty and Turbo the shit out of it
If i wanted a mp5 I would have bought one. :wtf: This is a Thread about the MSP in the MSP section.


I'll be enjoying the peace of mind that comes with having 4 years of no maintaince
Man i dont think your car will last that long without changing the oil :D

I was only trying to make some of the kiddies realize that cranking up the boost will eventually cause problems and it WILL void your warranty. That's at every dealership
I'm not 4 :wtf: Man you r really stuck on this age thing.

[I-Am-Chris]

Ok I'm done sorry again!

But hows the progress on the downpipe going? that is soming I'm looking into right now.

[perfworks]

Originally posted by ForceFed

:wtf: I guess you think you are just smarter than everyone on this board huh?:bs: I have a mortgage,a FT job and guess what ass ,i even have a PT job.Oh and to boot I'm 25 yrs. of age.For you condemning everyone for their own opinions and talking about your superior responsibleness(if thats a word,you get the point)you seem to be very ignorant and narrow minded.IF YOU DONT WANT TO VOID YOUR WARRANTY , THEN DONT !:mad: But dont try to tell us how to tune our cars!you do yours your way and we will do it the way we see fit!If you come on this board with the attitude you have i would suggest that you go find a new place to play!(flame) I dont know if its just me but does any one else have a prob with the holy 'er than though attitude?:confused: I've spoken my mind how bout the rest of y'all?
i got one in there before you force fed!;)

[yashooa]

Man at 19 I had a wife (which I still have) and a 2yr old daughter.
I was working 60-80 hrs a week for 5.25$ and hr to support them while my wife @18 yrs of age was the youngest one in her nursing school. So while the younger guys tend to be a bit more wound up and able to perhaps do things to their cars (without as many consequences) becuase of a parental saftey net dosent mean that they dont work hard.
Of course I think as a older gentlemen I will still tell them they suck....(moon) (wiggle) (hump) (stash) (naughty)

[AGR]

Originally posted by yashooa
Hey Im an old fart am I allowed to act stupid?
Heck AGR probaly has foot in a "rest facility" already :)
I dont know how much I am willing to do to my car until warranty is gone after that, well if something breaks Im screwed anyway so boost it!
BTW Man did this thread go off topic.

Awwww You Rat Bastard!!!! (rofl) Okay; so I'm 48 (soon to be 49)!!! It's all about the Grin factor.

Are you going to get one of these "Joe P's Manual Boost Controllers?

[yashooa]

Originally posted by AGR#7


Awwww You Rat Bastard!!!! (rofl) Okay; so I'm 48 (soon to be 49)!!! It's all about the Grin factor.

Are you going to get one of these "Joe P's Manual Boost Controllers?

Yes, as long as I can figure out how to mount it without destroying my warranty. Us old guys have to save up for our impending retirement. :)