how small our turbo's are(pics)

[twiztedjeckel]

does eveybody realize how tiny the turbo is that comes on our car. good lord. never really was able to get a good look at it till now.

[twiztedjeckel]

top

[BlackMSP]

its so cute lol...

[RX-KEVIN]

what's the reason for removing the ic pipes?

[03MzdSpdSTP]

for a small turbo it makes a loud chirp:D

[I-Am-Chris]

Damn did u have fun taking those off? Geez it was a bitch when I did it. They also glue all the Factory "t" for the vac lines.

[twiztedjeckel]

Originally posted by RX-KEVIN
what's the reason for removing the ic pipes?

its a big secret. it was a little tough. i did manage to rip the vacume line off about half an inch show that goe to the bov so i'll have to go ge another sextion of hose for that. i saw that there's some type of rubberized peice that goes over a couple of the ends i think it was on the IC. that wasn't the most run but oh well. i'll take another one later holding up something to the turbo so you can actually get a real feel for the size.

[murdock_]

would a bigger one fit? :)

[psifactor]

What concerns me is that mistubushi used the same turbo on the SAME sized engine with lower compression and made 210hp stock............humm what did mazda do wrong.....



that T25 is a good turbo....there are mistubushi's that run 12's with that turbo...and they did not get a ball bearing one.

[psifactor]

would a bigger one fit?



Hell yeah...but you better have the supporting mods first.

[chdesign]

Originally posted by psifactor
What concerns me is that mistubushi used the same turbo on the SAME sized engine with lower compression and made 210hp stock............humm what did mazda do wrong.....



that T25 is a good turbo....there are mistubushi's that run 12's with that turbo...and they did not get a ball bearing one.

Mitsu also ran alot more pressure with that turbo....and the T25 in the MSP is smaller than the T25 in the Eclipse so yes its a small as crap turbo.....I could really care less abotu the ball bearing yeah its nice but with that small of a turbo you wouldn't have much different spool times with a standard center section....the ball bearings were way overkill for that little peashooter IMO.

[Dave_13_2002]

I feel we don't need any real large turbo, as our engine at the power output we have stock any real larger turbo will have a hard time spooling as quick as the T25. If you switch out the T25 for something like a Mitsu Big 16g, we would have such lag there would be no point on the swap. But if you have supporting mods you should be fine. Also will have to raise the boost.

[Newf]

Come on it's not the size that counts.....right?

NO really...right?


STOP LAUGHING....it's true!



NO REALLY! STOP LAUGHING!

Stop making fun of it damnit!

[Dave_13_2002]

Newf, are you compensating for something? :p j/k

[chuyler1]

How long does it take you to spool your turbo?

[Newf]

How long does it take you to spool your turbo?

That better not be some sort of sexual reference !


Just kidding!

[Red99Xtreme]

Mitsu also ran alot more pressure with that turbo....and the T25 in the MSP is smaller than the T25 in the Eclipse so yes its a small as crap turbo.....I could really care less abotu the ball bearing yeah its nice but with that small of a turbo you wouldn't have much different spool times with a standard center section....the ball bearings were way overkill for that little peashooter IMO.

Not to Burst your bubble, but the Turbo in your picture depicts a Garret Based t-25.....I am guessing either T2 or T3 Based....Hard to tell by your pics....

The Mitsu Verison is Smaller FYI.......

http://www.vfaq.com/proj-pics/2G-16G/compressors.jpg

T-25 on the Right 16G on the Left...........

Mistu Turbo is a Standard Center Cartride, Non ball Bearing which you pointed out on a 6cm Exhaust housing.....and an even small inlet.......Close to 5cm.......

My guess is Mazda used a Rather small Cam profile in th MSP which is why its more sedate in its power output......Where as a DSM has a 254/254 Cam profile from the Factory.....

Cheers,
Mike
'88 CRX "Track Car"
'99 S-10 Xtreme

[psifactor]

I feel we don't need any real large turbo, as our engine at the power output we have stock any real larger turbo will have a hard time spooling as quick as the T25. If you switch out the T25 for something like a Mitsu Big 16g, we would have such lag there would be no point on the swap. But if you have supporting mods you should be fine. Also will have to raise the boost.




Put a 16g on a mistu and you will have full spool at 3k. With the higher compression in the mazdaspeed a 16g would spool before 3k.

What mainfold is on the Mazdaspeed? what I am really asking will a 16g bolt right on?

[psifactor]

How much boost does the mazdaspeed run stock? 5-7psi...
The mistu only ran 7-9psi...so it cannot be that much of a difference.

[spoolinmp3]

The 16g will not bolt on the the msp manifold (I think)...and I agree with CHdesign regarding turbo sizing on the MSP. The size turbo is not properly matched. So was the turbo on the eclipse....hence the nick name "t" to small. And the common upgrades on there cars are 16g's and t3/t4's

But this is all to common in the oem community, most manufacturers utilize undersized turbos to give the consumer a feel of a quick torque rush....the disadvantage is peak tq and hp is in the lower rpm band vs upper rpm band....its all about compressor maps and sizing it to the engine, compression used ect and calloway did not do such a hot job doing that.

By the way I run a big 16g on my car and get full boost by 2800 rpm, so it is very responsive. A t3/t4 with a 50 trim comp housing and stage2 turbine with a .62 rear will make full boost by 3700rpm and that is a HUGE turbo so lag is not a big concern with modern day turbo's .

A t25 on the MSP would be a great little turbo on a 1.5 liter motor or on lets say a suzuki swift 1.3l

I am not selling out the msp here just stating the facts....
Just look at the upside...atleast you guys have a turbo and thats alot better than what the common protege folk have:cool:

[spoolinmp3]

How much boost does the mazdaspeed run stock? 5-7psi...
The mitsu ran more boost than that
I think it peaked at 12psi but I am no DSM expert:)
I know for sure it was more than 7-9psi

[spoolinmp3]

By the way the evo utilizes a 16g on its 2.0 liter motor and the srt-4 uses one as well

[Red99Xtreme]

Stock 1Gs (90-94) Ran 10psi.....
Stock 2Gs (95-99s) Ran 10-12psi......now that 12psi is a Spike at WOT but settles to 10.......the t-25 on a 2G Usually can only hold 14psi at a Constant it can spike 20psi and hold Mid way thru the RPM Band but always drops to about 14.......

Cheers,
Mike
'88 CRX "Track Car"
'99 S-10 Xtreme

[chdesign]

Those pictures say nothing its not the saize of the compressor housing that makes the turbo its the size of the compressor wheel....look at the wheel in the 16G and the one in teh T25 the 16G wheel engulfs that T25's wheel. Also a Mitsu turbo will not bolt to the MS manifold they are not a T25 with a mitsu turbine housing like the DSM's they are a straight T25 with a T25 standard flange the only upgrade they would be able to go to is either a T28 from a Silvia or similar size or a T25/T3 hybrid. Oh yeah Red99 is right about the DSM boost pressures and the EVO hits 19.5 psi at 4500rpm's and settles down to 16 psi at higher rpms...as for lag on a larger turbo that is ridiculous...my blitz turbo hits full spool at 2800 RPM and will flow as much as a super 60 trim T3. I start building boost as low as 1800 rpm well within my driving range.

[twiztedjeckel]

i don't know guys. i'm thinking about sticking a nice little Super20G on and swapping out the T25, whaddya think:D i figure i should be able to get away with this since a bunch of people seem to think that the mitsu turbo's are interchangable:rolleyes:

[chdesign]

what did I just say.....Mitsu turbos are not interchangeable......it is a STANDARD Garrett T-25 flange on the turbine its not a MITSU housing.....Mazda doesn't deal with Mitsu turbo's they use garret IHI or Hitachi. I will say it one last time....a MITSU TURBO WILL NOT WORK ON THE MSP!!!!!!!

[twiztedjeckel]

dude spit the viagra out and relax, no need to be a hardon. i was kidding. i know the Mitsu turbo's are interchangeable and that this is not a mitsu turbo and will not go onto my car. its all coo essay;)

like i said earlier, i will post pictures of something next to the turbo as a size comparison

[psifactor]

I think it peaked at 12psi but I am no DSM expert


I own a DSM...mine is a 1g which hit max boost at 10psi...and for the 2g you are exactly right with 12psi...

Eariler I was only thinking of the 1g.


Stock 1Gs (90-94) Ran 10psi.....
Stock 2Gs (95-99s) Ran 10-12psi..

Well said.



But what does the mazdaspeed run stock?

[twiztedjeckel]

7

[twiztedjeckel]

here's a picture with a cd in front of the turbo. kinda not exactly the best picture but remember, it is somewhat confined down there so go with what you've got.

[Antoine]

What size is the kkk turbo used on the VW 1.8t? Isn't it quite small as well?

[psifactor]

The 2G used a T25, it was the Garret compressor housing and the center section with wick-type bearings, but the exhaust housing was a 6cm2 mitsubishi housing. The 16g ususally comes w/ a 7cm2 housing which will increase the lag a little bit, but not as much as you guys think. the T28 is a common upgrade on the 2G Talon/Eclipse. the 16g can be used but requires an installation kit.

The 2G DSM couldnt hold more than 13 psi consistantly cuz the piece of crap plastic BOV leaked. thats why the big ticket upgrade was to switch to a 1G BOV or get an HKS SSQV.

Btw, the compressor housing does have an effect on the compressor output/efficiency. the 16g compressor wheel, even the big16g wheel is oversized for the TD05H compressor housing, the smaller compressor housing ruins the compressor efficiency. the 14b is one of the most efficient turbos around. a Super20g would be killer on the MSP, except youd need a custom adaptor to mount the 100% mitsu turbo on the mazda manifold. the mazda manifold uses the standard T3 flange, not a round Mitsu flange. a serious upgrade would be the GT30, that would make SERIOUS power...like 500 WHP...except the tranny wont hold it.

The T25 on the MSP is a GT25...i dont know the second set of numbers, but that would dicate the AR ratio of the turbine housing, like maybe a GT2520 or something like that. it IS a GT series which means its true ball bearing CHRA. However, in the supra community there have been problems w/ Garret-type center sections w/ true ball bearings and wet-cartridge due to the style of the thrust bearing. The wet-cartridge has to use a 360* thrust bearing that is held in place by a spring, but if you opt for the dry-center section, you could get the 360* thrust bearing, and it would be screwed down, not sprung. im not 100% sure that this is the scenario of the MSP though.

This is essentially a Protege ES w/a turbo kit, a poorly designed turbo kit i might add.

[chdesign]

IT IS A T25 FLANGE NOT A T3 FLANGE How many times do I have to say this Jesus........(rolleyes)

[psifactor]

Garrett T25 (http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~sr20det/garrett_t25.htm)

Look at it smart ass...that is the same Garrett T25 that is SUPPOSEDLY equipped on the MSP...and that exhaust housing sure as hell looks like a T3 style. I have the same exhaust housing on my Supra CT26, and its the same looking exhaust housing as the Ford Thunderbird Turbocoupe, and the Merkur XR4Ti, and any other T3/T4 hybrid used in turbo kits.

but, you know, ive been known to be wrong...but it sure looks a hell of a lot like what i know as a T3...besides, im just a girl

[spoolinmp3]

and that exhaust housing sure as hell looks like a T3 style
Hmm yep sure does,
But I have seen t25's with different foot prints so who knows exactly what foot print the msp spec t25 is using.....anybody can take pics?:D

[spoolinmp3]

This is essentially a Protege ES w/a turbo kit, a poorly designed turbo kit i might add
Damn calloway:rolleyes:

[yashooa]

Originally posted by twiztedjeckel
dude spit the viagra out and relax, no need to be a hardon. i was kidding. i know the Mitsu turbo's are interchangeable and that this is not a mitsu turbo and will not go onto my car. its all coo essay;)

like i said earlier, i will post pictures of something next to the turbo as a size comparison

Perhaps he can take some of that sodium stuff you know they call it "Soft Peter" it's used in RTF and asylums.
I said ,"TAKE YOUR MEDS BOOOEEEYY!"

(stash)

[yashooa]

Originally posted by chdesign
IT IS A T25 FLANGE NOT A T3 FLANGE How many times do I have to say this Jesus........(rolleyes)

Ah nice to see a man of prayer.

Oh Lord thank you for my Mazda Speed....
AnD please let it hold together after I mod it to 215 WHP...
AMEN.(werd)

[psifactor]

T25 from RPS13 (http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~sr20det/jpg_genuine_turbine/garrett_t25_007.jpg)

look at the turbine inlet. now look at this picture from Road Race Engineering's website.

T3 turbine inlet gasket (http://www.roadraceengineering.com/parts/tweekerparts/sst3turbineinletgasket.jpg)

are you gonna sit there and tell me they dont look anything alike?

[turboge]

With the higher compression in the mazdaspeed a 16g would spool before 3k.

The higher the compression the longer it takes to spool. There is not enough exhaust gas to spin the turbine faster when you add more material to the piston and make the combustion chamber smaller.

Lower compression allows better spoolup, more timing advance, and boost.



are you gonna sit there and tell me they dont look anything alike?

Actually yes, they are not similar. If I look at a square and another square they may look the same. but the center section measurements are completely different and the location of each bolt hole is off as well.

[I-Am-Chris]

I thought u got compressor surge at 13 psi on the t25? So how where the DSM guys running like 18 psi on the turbo stock (until it cranked walked and screwed the motor LOL). Are we sure its the same? Or ae they just stupid?

Oh yeah by the way all the silvas ran a little different turbos. Thats from a 180.

[psifactor]

The higher the compression the longer it takes to spool. There is not enough exhaust gas to spin the turbine faster when you add more material to the piston and make the combustion chamber smaller.

Lower compression allows better spoolup, more timing advance, and boost.


This is absolutely wrong. you couldnt be any more wrong with this uneducated statement. Higher comrpresoin allows FASTER Spoolup because there is more pressure inside the cylinder and more exhaust energy and as it flows into the exhaust tract and puts force on the turbine wheel, it will do more work since there is more kinetic energy. Lower compression increases lag since there is LESS pressure and when the exhaust enters the manifold and turbine housing, it has less kinetic energy and therefore cannot to the same amount of work in the same period of time that higher compression engines can do.

Higher compression allows faster spool, increased low and mid range torque, better throttle response during off-boost conditions. the problem is that higher compression limites the amount of boost an engine can tolerate. thats why blower kits and turbo kits for NA motors are only designed to run LOW LEVELS of boost. If higher levels of boost were administered, the engine intake and combustion temps would be higher and would increase knock and detonation, raise EGT's and melt pistons. ATI procharger for Fbody V8s only run 4-8psi. Honda turbo kits only run 5-9 psi... I run 15 psi on pump gas daily on the DSM. On a track day we will crank it up to 20 psi, and we run 8.5:1 pistons from the 2G eclipse. trust me, i know what im talking about.


Actually yes, they are not similar. If I look at a square and another square they may look the same. but the center section measurements are completely different and the location of each bolt hole is off as well.

You just contradicted yourself champ. You just said it wasnt similar at all, then you said if you look at 2 squares they may look the same...so which is it, does it look the same or not? say what you mean, and mean what you say. :rolleyes: And since those pictures are not to scale there is no way for you to ascertain the location of holes and dimensions of those 2 items unless you physically are comparing them in first person. The only way to see if a T3 will bolt onto a MSP is either Trial and error, or calculations thru comparisons. have you done either? i dont think you have. if so, please share the specs. im interested in knowing how far they are off. if its not much, ill go into business by manufacturing adaptor plates to bolt on T3 turbos, or even T3/T4 hybrids.


I thought u got compressor surge at 13 psi on the t25? So how where the DSM guys running like 18 psi on the turbo stock (until it cranked walked and screwed the motor LOL). Are we sure its the same? Or ae they just stupid?

Turbos dont compressor surge at high boost levels. they only surge when the Pressure ratio is high and the air flow is low. thats surge. Crank walk isnt caused by high boost either. its caused by thrust loading on the crankshaft, misaligned bearing saddles and/or poor material quality in the bearing shells. Power shifting, clutch dumping, or heavy duty clutch pressure plates Accelerate/aggrevate the problem. Running 18 psi on a turbo that small IS idiotic. at that boost level, the compressor is redlining itself and operating WAY outside of its efficiency range. its heating up the air more than its compressing it. and when it heats it up, thats when you get intercooler heat soak and excessive detonation. now on a knock-referenced ignition system, the timing will get pulled, and the EGT's will skyrocket, and youll melt pistons and crack manifolds. seen it happen a million times in the DSM crowd. i know from experience.


Oh yeah by the way all the silvas ran a little different turbos. Thats from a 180.

You are correct sir! :) however its a T25 nonetheless. then they got upgraded to a T28, a little bigger, flows more air at the same boost levels so it will support more HP. Btw, sylvia and 180 arent exactly the same car. the T25 from the 180 probably has smaller Trims and ARs than the sylvia. The trims of the compressor and turbine wheels as well as the AR ratios of the compressor and turbine housings can be altered to fit the application even though the turbo it self is still in the same series.

Our MK3 Supra comes w/ a T3 turbine housing, a Toyota CT26 compressor housing and a .48 trim compressor wheel. there is a .53, .57, .60 and the 60-1 compressor upgrades for this partuclar compressor housing. however, since the inducer, exducer and fin pitch are different than the stock wheel, the stock housing needs to be machined to match the new wheel. Compressor efficiency maps are rated for specific wheels, but putting them in different compressor housings will skew the numbers. its crazy, it really is...

[I-Am-Chris]

damn man talk about a reply. Yeah about 5 of my friends have 240's with swaps. My friend william's car made 426 whp with www.ctcmotorsports.com turbo kit (tested it on his car). Yeah my old roommate hade a 98 GST and like 3 GVR4's. Crank walked killed his 98. haha speaking of mk3's he put a 50 trim wheel in his ct26 and it flies!!!!

[psifactor]

yea my buddy here in Tampa put a Full T4 turbo w/ a .53 trim compressor and he laid down 434 RWHP at 8 psi...not bad id say. I told him to go for the 60-1 standard w/ the 4" inlet...not the Hi-Fi...the Hifi is too small. but he just said he wants faster spool...so i dunno.

Im actually going to have a friend who runs Slowboyracing.com build me a Garrett T4/Mitsu hybrid w/ a 60-1 compressor for the DSM...were talkin some serious muscle baby like 450 All-wheel horsepower!

[turboge]

Originally posted by psifactor
trust me, i know what im talking about.

I still don't trust you, nor do I think you know what you're talking about. You can step off your high horse and come back to reality.



The only way to see if a T3 will bolt onto a MSP is either Trial and error, or calculations thru comparisons. have you done either? i dont think you have. if so, please share the specs. im interested in knowing how far they are off. if its not much, ill go into business by manufacturing adaptor plates to bolt on T3 turbos, or even T3/T4 hybrids.

http://info1credit.com/bb/pics/t3flange.jpg
http://info1credit.com/bb/pics/t25flange.jpg

Similar, but not the same. I have built many turbo systems using a T3 turbo and a T25 Does NOT bolt up. Anyone who tries to put a T3 on a T25 manifold will find out the same thing every time...it doesn't fit! The only turbo that will bolt up is a similar T28, they utilize the same flange design.

People do make adapter plates for t25 to T3, but when you add the extra space required to fit the adapter and put the turbo in, you run out of room fast. When you could have spent the money and time developing a true T3 manifold with equal length runners and exact fitment. Why pay $20,000 to be cheap?

[psifactor]

I still don't trust you, nor do I think you know what you're talking about. You can step off your high horse and come back to reality.
waht exactly do you not believe? the fact i have a supra turbo? the fact i run 20 psi on a 14b w/ a 33% xylene mixture at the track? what is it? please explaint it to me. I dont spout off shit that i know not to be true. If i am unsure of factual background, i say things like "im not sure, but..." "im not an expert on..." Everything i know is from experience and education...not hear-say. there is no high horse. I figure if you seem to be smart enough to speak to me the way you do, i will speak to you in my terms and not dumb it down. no one is on a high horse. So sue me if i know how to use big words and read compressor efficiency maps. jesus...


People do make adapter plates for t25 to T3, but when you add the extra space required to fit the adapter and put the turbo in, you run out of room fast. When you could have spent the money and time developing a true T3 manifold with equal length runners and exact fitment. Why pay $20,000 to be cheap?

what the hell does the "pay $20000 to be cheap" mean...i dont follow that at all. Besides, not all of us have access to sand cast facilities and have the means to melt nodular iron pellets. if i did, i would have put alot of the turbo-kit manufactures out of business along time ago. it takes quite an investment to cast your own parts out of iron. thats why i said adaptor plate. We use Adaptor plates to put full T4 turbos on MK3 supras mounted to the stock manifold...whats the problem pal? The whole spirit of hotrodding is to do it for cheap and NOT spend $20,000. duh. It takes a real man to mod a car and put in blood sweat and tears rather than BUYING a big turbo, and buying intercooler pipes, and Buying a big intercooler. anyone can BUY something. It takes real talent to MAKE something. thats the whole name of the game; hot rodding. I would rather make an adaptor plate for $30 than spend $600 on a proprietary manifold. i would figure out a way to make it work, rather than complain "theres no room". thats when you Relocate shit and use your imagination. So dont talk to me about high horses...i cant afford one.

[chdesign]

THANK YOU Branden....Yes the T25 and T3 flanges look exactly the same in pictures but the actual dimensions of the T25 flange are smaller so don't go calling me a smart-ass when you know not a damn thing about me. One I have built alot of turbo systems as well....I could give a damn if you have a DSM or a Supra for that matter.....I was the second turbo protege on this board only a couple weeks behind Terry and I built all of my own components and didn't buy prefabbed stuff. The setup I'm running now I built the Mani, downpipe, IC piping and the intercooler for that matter. Before you go around and start denoucing people on this board check yourself and ask yourself if you would want someone talking to you like you have been talking. If I was a moderator of this forum I would close this thread but unfortuanatly I'm not just the Mod of the FI forum. Also have you looked at the angle in which the turbo is placed in the MSP if you made an adapter plate it would be extrememly hard to place a T3 or a T3/T4 in there for that matter if you kept the same angle that the turbo is in now. You may know what you are talking about I have no idea of your background or anything but to the people on this board you are acting like an ass. You retailiate to Branden like he is a 17 YO kid that just got his new car form mommy and daddy.....ummmm no.....he OWNS Barely Legal Transplants in CA he had one of the first BPT swap proteges if not the first in the nation. He manufactures and designs turbo kits and oh yeah he too can read compressor maps well.....before you go and start to diss everyone on this board think about what you are doing cause you may know something about cars but you have no people skills....you may say that about me due to this post on this thread btu i am only talking to you the way you have treated other people on this board. If you can't grow up get off the board otherwise welcome and please remain civil and if you don't know about a person don't start assuming that they don't know anything.

[psifactor]

The higher the compression the longer it takes to spool. There is not enough exhaust gas to spin the turbine faster when you add more material to the piston and make the combustion chamber smaller.

Lower compression allows better spoolup, more timing advance, and boost.

now explain this to me...

This guy has no idea what he is talking about.

Maybe you two should both pick up the book maxium boost by corkey bell.

[chdesign]

that explaination is totally wrong with a Higher Compression you will be generating a higher pressure in the combustion chamber which will allow the exhaust gases to exit faster which will reduce lag time. The lower compression setup will allow you to run more advanced timing than a High Compression setup but both can be run just as safe as either other with the correct tuning. Higher the compression you will either have to retard the timing more or run lower boost but you can acheive the same HP numbers on a HC motor with a lower boost level as a Low compression motor at a higher boost level if the motor is built and tuned right. Tuning is the key in any turbo setup not just a kit slapped on the motor and run.

[psifactor]

Im not being as big of a jerk as you are making me out to be. just because you perceive it one way doesnt make it so. Sounds like a couple of you have superiority complexes and you seem to think you are all better than me since i dont own some kind of auto tuning business. Im a Do-it-yourself fabricator kind of person and dont believe in contracting out my work.


Yes the T25 and T3 flanges look exactly the same in pictures but the actual dimensions of the T25 flange are smaller so don't go calling me a smart-ass when you know not a damn thing about me isnt this what i have been saying the WHOLE FREAKIN TIME??? Like i said before, i havent test fitted anything so im not SURE fo the exact dimensions, so therefore i did not proclaim is as gospel. goddamn, quit being so defensive.


I could give a damn if you have a DSM or a Supra for that matter well, if you were smart, you WOULD give a damn, as this proves my expereience w/ turbocharged vehicles and tuning them. Im not a freakin newbie that doesnt know jack about cars. You need to recognize also. The DSM is capable of running solid 12 second passes on the STOCK turbo and the STOCK intercooler... id say i know a thing or 2 about tuning. btw, this isnt nearly as confrontational as other threads i have seen on my boards, no reason to lock it yet.


before you go and start to diss everyone on this board think about what you are doing cause you may know something about cars but you have no people skills....you may say that about me due to this post on this thread btu i am only talking to you the way you have treated other people on this board. If you can't grow up get off the board otherwise welcome and please remain civil and if you don't know about a person don't start assuming that they don't know anything.


Im not dissing anyone on the board unless they provoke me. I am not part of the turn-the-other-cheek faith. If someone can dish it out, i can give it back. i dont sit idley by and let people walk all over me and second guess my intelligence, as i beleive you share a similar view. If someone cant be patient and cordial w/ me, i wont be with them. I think of it as "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" if you give me shit, youre gonna get shit. I dont candy coat the truth, i dont protect people from the truth, i tell it like it is. and if that makes people uncomfortable, thats their problem not mine. im sorry if you feel that its unpleasante and you feel the need to retaliate, but so be it. anyhow, que sera sera.


that explaination is totally wrong with a Higher Compression you will be generating a higher pressure in the combustion chamber which will allow the exhaust gases to exit faster which will reduce lag time. The lower compression setup will allow you to run more advanced timing than a High Compression setup but both can be run just as safe as either other with the correct tuning. Higher the compression you will either have to retard the timing more or run lower boost but you can acheive the same HP numbers on a HC motor with a lower boost level as a Low compression motor at a higher boost level if the motor is built and tuned right. Tuning is the key in any turbo setup not just a kit slapped on the motor and run. This i totally agree with. this couldnt be closer to the truth. however, high boost on an already high compression engine will really use up the octane value of the gas to its limit, youre leaving nothing on the table, which means that any unforseen variable like a higher than normal IAT, or heat soak or operating the turbo outside its efficiency will cause detonation, and itll pull that wonderful timing advance back. i like to think of timing advance being directly related to knock, and thats directly related to IAT's and boost levels since they are hand in hand. and that is only affected by the size/effic. of the compressor and the static compression ratio. tuning IS the key, that way you can keep your timing advance and make the HP you should be making.

[AGR]

Originally posted by twiztedjeckel
does eveybody realize how tiny the turbo is that comes on our car. good lord. never really was able to get a good look at it till now.

Yeah!! But, consider how small the human heart is. :D

[psifactor]

...fist sized? :)

btw guys, sorry if i "dissed" anyone earlier... Car chicks dont get alot of credit. most people just say "meh, its a girl...they dont know shizzle"

[spoolinmp3]

The higher the compression the longer it takes to spool. There is not enough exhaust gas to spin the turbine faster when you add more material to the piston and make the combustion chamber smaller.
This is one of the fundmental explanations in the first chapter of maximum boost...
higer comp the faster it reaches boost threshold
Lower comp slower it reaches boost threshold.

Yes you do not want an ultra high compression motor and on the other hand you dont want low compression slug. The compression on our mazdaspeeds/mp3 ect are considered low and excellent for turbo's.

An s2000 with an 11.1:1 sky high compression ratio can run7 psi all day long with proper fuel and timing control.
Thats on 91 octane gas.

Fuel grade, timing control and fuel control are everything on turbo applications. You can run 16 psi of boost on a 11.1:1 comp ratio with just utilizing c16 fuel.

As far as the bickering on this thread.....
dude cant we all get along:D

[turboge]

Sorry, just speaking through my experiences. I've had better luck spooling turbo's on 8.2:1 compression motors running high advance and cycling the boost solenoid than I've had on 8.8, 9, and 10:1 motors so far. This is on 91, 100, and C16. I just don't like running 0 degrees of advance at 10-12 psi.


When we go back to the topic at hand, it brings me to think of powerbands. I'm still a fan of peaking the torque out at higher RPM on mazda motors for the sake of the transmission. I had a VJ20 peaking 265lb-ft at 3700rpm, it was screaming for a broken tranny.

On Adam's car IIRC the peak torque was around 270lb-ft at 5000rpm. I think that is just about the perfect spot to peak out torque on the BP as our redline was 7200-7800.

For our MSP's the extra .2 liters of displacement help out a little bit to get some more torque, but the size of this turbo is just a hair off to put the peak torque in the proper place it. Currently with the Injen we are peaking around 3700rpm. With a 6500rpm redline I think that torque should peak out around 4500 and slowly slope off. That would be easily done by using a properly sized T28 (which just might be a bolt on in the future).

But after all the turbos you can slap on, the key problem or solution always comes from tuning. I highly suggest anyone who is going to swap turbo's or spend a nice chunk of change on the car, look into a way of tuning, whether piggy back or standalone, you cannot beat the bang for the buck on that, nor the safety of knowing your engine is breathing right.

[yashooa]

Originally posted by psifactor
...fist sized? :)

btw guys, sorry if i "dissed" anyone earlier... Car chicks dont get alot of credit. most people just say "meh, its a girl...they dont know shizzle"

Damn, I will quit refering to you as DOOD then :)

[turboge]

:eek: (omg) (shocked) (rockon) (bling) (werd)

[chdesign]

Man I don't know what you are trying to prove. I dont' ahve a superiority complex or however you put it....and still I coudl give a damn what cars your have jsut because you have them doesn't mean crap to me the fact that you say you did it all yoruself that impresses me but the fact you have....I could care less. My friend owns a RX-7 with a T-78 with a manifold I made for him but He knew alot about cars before teh rex so a car tells me nothing of your automotive knowledge. I do not claim to know nearly everythign about a car cause I don't.....but as far as the Protege is concerned I try to stay pretty much up to date. Like I said I'm not trying to start anything I'm just saying whats on my mind. As far as what you were saying about teh T25 flange maybe I misunderstood you in the fact that I thought you were saying they look the same so they are the same...I was just giving my insite that the T25 adn T3 have totally different dimensions concerning the flange. Sorry if I offened you or anything I just have been way overworked right now and kinda stressed out trying to finish up a couple headers for friends of mine. Again I'm sorry if I offended you thats just the way I think about what cars someone has and all that.....I know alot of guys that could name off any fact abotu a car you want but they drive old POS dodge colts and some guys that don't know crap but have 12 second civic hatchs...unless I know you personally and all that what cars someone owns doesn't impress me....sorry again just the way I am.

[Vicocola]

Suprisingly this thread changed from lookin at our tiny turbo into very informative topic about turbos... good work u3 :P
Wish i know at least half as much as u guys do :(

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

uhh sry to butt in on the arguement, but i've heard of this thing called a decompression plate. i don't remember where i saw it (a magazine or something). but i remember the description saying that the plate lowers compression so you can get that turbo application running at full power. something like that. the plate goes between the block and the header.

[spoolinmp3]

uhh sry to butt in on the arguement, but i've heard of this thing called a decompression plate. i don't remember where i saw it (a magazine or something). but i remember the description saying that the plate lowers compression so you can get that turbo application running at full power. something like that. the plate goes between the block and the header.
Hmmm maybe a thicker head =gasket..you usually can lower the compression 1 point with these. SCE gaskets makes them for our cars. And you can specify the exact specs you want

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

but why lower the compression?

[Micah]

Originally posted by yashooa


Perhaps he can take some of that sodium stuff you know they call it "Soft Peter" it's used in RTF and asylums.
I said ,"TAKE YOUR MEDS BOOOEEEYY!"

(stash)

Actually - it's called Saltpeter. ( Sodium Nitrate )

[twiztedjeckel]

wow, way to bring back a dead thread for nothing

[LinuxRacr]

PSI Factor is a lady? Good.