1st Autocross with the MSP! WOW!!

[Teamzero]

Guys (and Gals),
I finally had the chance to run my MSP in its first autox on Sunday. It was simply amazing! The grouping of cars went from new Vettes to completely race prepped Neons and Civics. And the drivers went from some of the best in the region to a handful of rookies. Overall, I was the 2nd fastest of anything there and only 1 second away from that time!! Some cars were even on race tires! I just brought the MSP bone stock with the factory air pressures. The car never seemed to run out of grip and the car's balance was great.

Some pics and a small movie:
http://www.haydu.com/stuff/autox031603/msp2.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/stuff/autox031603/msp3.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/stuff/autox031603/msp4.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/stuff/autox031603/msp5.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/stuff/autox031603/msp6.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/stuff/autox031603/msp7.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/stuff/autox031603/msp8.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/stuff/autox031603/msp9.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/stuff/autox031603/msp91.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/stuff/autox031603/msp93.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/stuff/autox031603/mspmovie.MPG

Nice Job Mazda!!
-Chris

[Street KingFD]

Damn that was kickass!

[MSProject]

now that was nice :)..

[Caffeine]

Thats awesome man, great movie. My guess is you were hanging in second the majority of the race? Or did you shift any higher then that

[AGR]

Excellent Chris! Excellent!!! (thumb)

[t3ase]

http://www.haydu.com/stuff/autox031603/msp93.JPG

And I finally have new wallpaper... Very nice run. :cool:

How was the handling in the snow/water?

[Teamzero]

This was one of the tighter courses that I have run and was mainly 1st gear with the exception of the section furthest away from the camera in the upper right corner and down through the short slalom. Coming from a Civic Si, it took a while to get used to the lower redline of the Mazda and was up against the rev limiter a couple times through the course. So I might have been able to grab 2nd a few more places then I did but decided that it would have been faster to leave it in gear and get the benefit of the engine braking before the corner. The movie was my first run of the day and the car just kept getting faster. By the last run, the short slalom was so fast in 2nd gear that I actually got my clutch leg to shake before the bottom right hander as I did not think the car would stick. But stick it did. And with even more stick in reserve! :)

[Teamzero]

Also... Stayed out of the snow (thankfully) but the water was fine. Even fun. You could really explore the balance of the car with a little water on the track! By the end of the day, I was planning on hitting the puddle, turning in hard, tapping the brake, and getting the back end to come out just enough to send me through the turn. Once again, Nice Job Mazda!

I did not run the MSP at our last event due to a little extra snow on the course but a few brave souls did. Want to laugh? Check out those pics!
http://www.haydu.com/stuff/Autox022303/

[scapamouche]

I KNEW there were advantages to being in Norcal! ;)

Welcome to the MSP autox appreciation society :D

[scapamouche]

Interesting course. It's been a long time since I autox on a multi lap course that wasn't an enduro..... In fact, not since the Madison SCC in Madison, WI.

I like the elevation change in that lot: you could have a LOT of fun with off camber turns there.... Just like Candlestick Park in San Francisco....

I don't know about autoxing around piles of snow, though :(

[AGR]

I wanna Autocross!!!!!!! But; doesn't it just kill your stock tires. I guess if your going to do that often, you really need tires and rims for that purpose.

[cjstringer]

You took away the fun by plowing! We ran in the snow and used snow tires. Much more fun. Check out cscc-scca.org. There are pics from the february event. There's also another thread around here with pics of my MP3 in the snow autoX. Lots of fun on blizzaks!

[Teamzero]

Cjstringer,
Well, I can't say that you aren't going to eat a little rubber runnning an autox course but like I always say:
Pick One:
100,000 Miles or 100,000 smiles. You can't have both though! :)

The two competitive classes for the MSP in the SCCA is DS and STX. DS requires you to use rims that are pretty much identical in size to the stock rims but you can use a sticky race tire. STX requires you to use a street tire but you could change you rim size. If you plan on autocrossing and running on something other then your stock wheels and tires, make sure you decide beforehand on what class you are going to run. Would really stink to buy a set of rims and tires to run in the D-stock class only to find that you are forced into some other class. Myself, and from what the rest of the coneheads on this board say, looks like most of us are going to run STX this year.

-Chris

[Teamzero]

Oops Sorry...
Got you two guys confused.

This one to cjstringer!
Our January event we did that. Snow tires and no plowing. Unfortunately we did not even get enough entrants to pay for the gas to bring the club truck to the event. Lots of low cars in our region and of the few that ran, they ended up losing most of their plastic from under the car. Plowing helped get a few more entrants at least. It was fun though. Still had my Civic back then and I beat the heck out of it! :)

[AGR]

okay Chris.....approximately how much money, and brand of tires and wheels?

[nattyboy513]

chris... you dont care if i post the video on my web site do you?

[low_psi]

i say get a set of light 16's. rotas are good wheels and you can find them for ~$500. any wheel that is light and wide is good enough. if you run in a stock class(17" wheels), get some good r-compounds like kuhmo victoracers, hoosiers or yok's.

if you plan to run in a street tire class, get a set of falken azenis.

the slicks will cost more and wear out quicker, but since you'll be stock, you will have more money to invest in new sets since you won't be making any other large modifications to the car.

enjoy!

[cjstringer]

Originally posted by AGR#7
okay Chris.....approximately how much money, and brand of tires and wheels?

Well, if the MSP is anything like the MP3, which I'm guessing it is, the stock wheels are a 55 offset, which means you need a 49+ offset to stay in stock. (within .25 in) I bought the ASA JS1 rims (on another board members recommendation) and put on 205 40/17 Kuhmo Ecsta V700s. You won't be able to run Hoosiers because we can't get enough stock camber (they require 2.5deg negative or more). My cost from Tire Rack, to the door, was a little over $1200. Kinda pricey, but worth every penny.
Now, if you're gonna go for STX, get a 7.5in rim. I'd also go for a 16" instead of 17. Cheaper rims and tires both, and you have a better selection of Azenis in that size also.
Just my thoughts! Good luck. Nothing better than a good day at the autoX! (unless of course I end up racing a factory mazda or something. :) )

[KBicknel]

Originally posted by AGR#7
I wanna Autocross!!!!!!! But; doesn't it just kill your stock tires. I guess if your going to do that often, you really need tires and rims for that purpose.

If you are going to be in D-stock which is the only option for a stock MSP, them you have a variety of options. We are buying race rubber which costs a bit more but is more competitive. We are looking at around $150 per tire. We are getting Kumho Ecsta V7000's. And then if you are buying new wheels for D-stock your offset has to within about 6 mm of the original offset. Our wheels have a 55 offset and staying within 6mm of that isnt so easy. But on tirerack.com we did find some ASA wheels that are a 51 offset and the right size 17x7. Thereare two types of the ASA wheels. We are getting the $239 ea ones but there is a set of less attractive ones for $119 each. Of course you do not have to have race quality tires so you could find some for less than $100 each.

[cjstringer]

Looks like I got the "less attractive" $119 rims and the V700. I think the rims are pretty badass myself, and they are 5 pounds lighter than stock, but still 19.5 pounds. V700's are about $130 each, but mounted and shipped your looking about $1200+ a set. Very good investment. If you want the "more attractive" $239 rims, check the weight to see if they would have a considerable advantage. For double the price, I'd hope they are under 15lbs. I doubt it on a 17" rim though.

[nattyboy513]

will these http://www.axiswheels.com/maglite.html fit our cars? 17's that weigh 14lbs and only $200. and did i mention that they look badass!

[nattyboy513]

jk... just saw that they only make them in 4-bolt pattern and we have 5. sorry.

[KBicknel]

Originally posted by cjstringer
Looks like I got the "less attractive" $119 rims and the V700. I think the rims are pretty badass myself, and they are 5 pounds lighter than stock, but still 19.5 pounds. V700's are about $130 each, but mounted and shipped your looking about $1200+ a set. Very good investment. If you want the "more attractive" $239 rims, check the weight to see if they would have a considerable advantage. For double the price, I'd hope they are under 15lbs. I doubt it on a 17" rim though.

Sorry...didn't mean to put down your wheels. If it were up to me, I would have the $119 ones but my husband is a wheel freak and is willing to pay $500 extra just for looks. The weight is right around the same...19.5 lbs so you are not paying extra for that!

[BlackMSP]

that looks frigin awesome!

[Grimace]

:eek:

Wow, was that video sped up? That was awesome!
Seriously, was that real time? If so, my respect for the MSP went up yet another notch!

[scapamouche]

I talked to James CHen of Axis last year trying to get him to start making the Maglite in a bolt pattern for the Celica (5X100) and he said there wasn;t enough room to make it work. it'd be worse with the 5x114.5 we have.

As for tires, we all have our own opinions, but I don't think a beginning autoxer should use race tires AT ALL! Learn how to drive using steet tires of some sort, then once you've learned how to make the msot of them, go to a race compound. Those tires are too expensive to to start on, plus you won't get the same level of skill using the available grip if you haven't tried the lower traction route first.

If I were you, AGR, I'd autox on the RE040s until you kill them, THEN worry about getting better tires. AS for what class to run in, you are currently ILLEGAL for stock! The cone filter and maybe the turbo timer too are NOT allowed in stock!

I'm running in STX because I don't want to spend the money for race tires and new wheels, and I was in STS before, so all my friends are still in STS, AND, I already have a good basis for how to make an ST type car fast.

If you Do decide to get new tires, and opt to NOT go in stock, I'd recommend 15" rims with 205/50-15 Falken Azenis or 16" rims with 215/45-16 Azenis. They are BY FAR the best bang for the buck, and the only tires with better dry traction are BFG KDs which cost about twice as much.

As I've said in other threads, I'm getting a set of 225/45-17 Azenis put on my MSP tomorrow, and I'll let you know how they fit. I've got an autox this coming weekend, too so I can get some solid feedback on how well they do when worked hard too (at least as far as rubbing goes...) I can tell you now that the grip they give is GREAT, but that it will take either 2 or 3 autoxs OR a couple hundred miles of hard street driving to get them up to their full potential. They need to be broken in to grip their best.

Keep them COOL on the autox: they DO NOT LIKE HEAT. AT ALL. I usually spray my front tires with water after each run to cool them off. I've seen the grip go away and the tires get greasy if they are over about 130F. Yes, I use a pyrometer. Like my sig says, I'm an autox fiend ;)

[cjstringer]

Originally posted by KBicknel
Sorry...didn't mean to put down your wheels.

You didn't bother me, I know I'm broke!

[cjstringer]

I agree 100% with scapamouche. Run your stocks until you learn how to drive the car right. Tires will just be an expensive mistake. You will be able to make bigger mistakes at higher speeds with less warning. Not the best way to learn how to drive.
Stick with stock rubber for at LEAST half of the season and learn how to drive the car. I can guarantee nobody has an MSP totally figured out yet.

[Teamzero]

Sure Nattyboy513, you could steal whatever you want. Took the pics for the enjoyment of everyone. And yes it was in Real Time! :) Even felt alot faster in the car then it looked outside the car.

In my region, competition is a little too hot in DS. People get way too serious. At least in STX, it's usually a bunch of amateur tuners just out for a fun Sunday afternoon. :) You guys covered all of the questions great. I do agree. UNless you are seriously competing for year end points where every split second is important to you, just run the car as it came from the factory until you get used to it. Just remmeber to use a little more air pressure so the tires do not roll over too far. Mine definitely went too far running 39psi on all 4.

[Newf]

Whats the tread wear and tire noise like with the falken's? Suitable for everyday street driving? Last long? Just wondering because i don't really like bridgestone tires, and I may just get rid of them.

I'm not Auto X'ing. No such thing around here.

[scapamouche]

They have a treadwear rating of 200. I'd expect to get about 10k out of a set if you autocross fairly regularly, less with multiple drivers, more if you take it easy. The only other drawback on the street besides the deep water problme is noise: they are NOT quiet tires to drive on. Despite the stiff sidewall, they DO ride pretty comfortably, though...

With no autox, and not much abuse, you could probably get about 15k before they start getting dangersous in the wet. There will still be lots of traction, but not enough tread to evacuate the water.

[Teamzero]

Sorry guys... Some people have been asking me where all of the pictures went. Well, I moved them all to an autocross folder so I had a consistent place to store everything for this coming season. Below are the new links for the MSP pics. All of the autocross pics are going to be stored under www.haydu.com/autox so hopefully will have some new ones for everyone after the 4/13 event! :) Have a Great Weekend!

Some pics and a small movie:
http://www.haydu.com/autox/Autox031603/msp2.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/autox/Autox031603/msp3.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/autox/Autox031603/msp4.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/autox/Autox031603/msp5.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/autox/Autox031603/msp6.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/autox/Autox031603/msp7.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/autox/Autox031603/msp8.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/autox/Autox031603/msp9.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/autox/Autox031603/msp91.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/autox/Autox031603/msp93.JPG
http://www.haydu.com/autox/Autox031603/mspmovie.MPG

[Ryan]

links are dead for me :(

[Teamzero]

Ryan,
The ones from my above post should work. Just tested them again. The ones from my original post should now be dead though.

-Chris

[Ryan]

oops just looked at first page links sorry okay great wow man looks awesome i cant wait to do mine in autocross