FS-ZE in the Works

[LinuxRacr]

Well guys,
I may be getting a FS-ZE Engine to replace my blown one if things don't go right with Mazda. Here is the link to the site for those who don't know what the hell I am talking about:
FS-ZE Engine (http://www.corksport.com/cgi-bin/test.cgi?gfx=/FSZEengine.jpg&text=FS-ZE+Engine&back=jengine.html)

They (Corksport) have a couple extras comming in. The ECU should support this engine with no problems. I also heard that supposedly our engines can withstand 12 psi stock! This is what the tech at Corksport informed me of. I will keep ya posted!

[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Linuxninja ]

[ 02-03-2002: Message edited by: Linuxninja ]

[kep0ne]

is it just me or does that look like it wont fit? the intake manifold looks like it goes quite a way back there. although, it might just be the angle of the picture. hopefully you can go ahead with this project...you might be the only known fs-ze powered protege in the US. it might actually be cheaper than fixing all the stuff thats broken too, wouldnt it?

[cougfan99]

Sweet! How do I ruin my engine so Mazda will put a ZE engine in mine?

[upsman]

kep0

There are 2 FS-ZE powered Proteges in the U.S. already. Myself (Jeremy DeHart) and my friend Jeremy Thomas have em. If you wanna see pics click on the link below. My car is the blue "SPORT 20" and his car is the black 3rd gen. The only pics of the engine are his newly installed FS-ZE. Enjoy.

http://www.geocities.com/firstgenprotege1/mapp2.htm

Jeremy DeHart

[kep0ne]

oh yeah...i almost forgot about your car. what's your impression of the engine? if you had a chance, would you have went turbo instead? do you plan on going turbo with the fs-ze?

[LinuxRacr]

Originally posted by Sport 20 Sedan:
<STRONG>kep0

There are 2 FS-ZE powered Proteges in the U.S. already. Myself (Jeremy DeHart) and my friend Jeremy Thomas have em. If you wanna see pics click on the link below. My car is the blue "SPORT 20" and his car is the black 3rd gen. The only pics of the engine are his newly installed FS-ZE. Enjoy.

http://www.geocities.com/firstgenprotege1/mapp2.htm

Jeremy DeHart</STRONG>


Sport 20,

You are the Man! I need to speak with you about what may be involved in swapin this thing out. By the way folks, Mazda would not be endorsing this project. This is just in case the damn warranty is not honored.

[MP3-Owner]

And why wouldn't it be honored? You have done nothing wrong. They better honor it ;)

[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: MP3-Owner ]

[upsman]

kep0

I like the engine. However I need the ECU as you may know. That is the main concern right now. I would turbo the engine (FS-ZE)if someone made a kit for it. A turbo for the P5 or MP3 would fit. Either that or I would turbo my stock engine which I still have.

Jeremy D.

[LinuxRacr]

Hey everyone,

At this point, I need all the Info that I can on the FS-ZE, and why I should/Shouldn't get it. Any info you could think of please post.

Thanks.

[StuttersC]

You might want to go with a programmable ignition and fuel delivery system to get the most out of the FS-ZE...costs more that way, but at least you won't have to try to track down the regular computer. Plus, it might actually make installation a little easier.

You mount everything while the motor is out side of the car and drop it in all at once.

Just a thought...This is one of the routes I was thinking about going in the future.

[upsman]

Pros and cons of the FS-ZE

Pros:

It bolts right in.
Reliability should be the same.
All engine accessories are the same.
Mods that fit MP3 will fit FS-ZE.
With ECU it should be a pretty strong engine.

Cons:
No ECU as of yet. Who knows when?
J-Spec ECU will not swap.
Won't get full potential from engine.
No more warranty.
Splicing and swapping of some connectors req.
"Must" run premuim gas (no biggie)
Runs rich.
High compression makes it harder to turbo if one is produced.
Swap costs around $4000.00 when totally complete.
If you get emmissions test will it pass?????
I don't know I haven't taken it to get tested yet.?!?!

Thats all I can think of at the moment. For Patrick once all is said and done you may be payin about $4k either way. Decide if you want your warranty.

Why I did it? I wanted more power than the 1.8L. I was financially more than able to do so. I wanted to be different. BUT I was and am still the guinea-pig for the whole thing. Is it worth it? I wont say no but I wont say yes either. Do I regret it? NO because I knew what I was getting into when I started it. My 2 cents for what its worth.


Good luck to all
Jeremy

[kep0ne]

why wont the jspec ecu work?

[LinuxRacr]

Thanks folks,

Keep it comming. :D

[LinuxRacr]

Does anyone see any problem with the probable emissions problem that may be encountered in the future? :confused:

[kep0ne]

being that its a jdm motor, of course you're gonna have emissions problems. easily solved with some cash though...if you know what i mean.

[LinuxRacr]

Guys,

I talked with Corksport, and I will put my deposit down on Monday. After I pay for the engine, I still have to come up with $1500 + to get it installed!! Fuck! I want to be driving before the auto show, but now I don't know. :( I can buyt the engine next week, but that won't matter if I can't install it.

[upsman]

So you are going to do the engine swap heh? Good luck!

Jeremy

[mp3_moran]

You might not even need to get it installed. The first major mechanical endeavor I undertook was swapping a B16A into my old civic. All I did was buy the factory service manual for my car and the donor engines car, set aside a weekend and a few six packs and had at it. The swap started friday night after work and was finished early monday morning. I realize that any service manual for an fsze equiped car is going to be in japanese, but from what I understand so far, the fsze is such a similar engine to what we currently have you might only need the service manual for the protege. The key is to ask as many questions as possible to those who have already done the swap and expect things to go wrong no matter HOW prepared you are....like needing just ONE more hose clamp at three in the morning. I spent alot of time on http://hybrid.honda-perf.org before I started the swap. You might want to check it out a little as I have a feeling that preparing to do a swap in any car has to be fairly similar (as far as checking and double checking all of your parts). Another thing I did was teardown and rebuild my new engine just to make sure everything was in top working order (I had a friend who had more mechanical experience help me with this part). Other than that I can't think of much else to tell you. If you think of any questions that might crossover just let me know alright?

[LinuxRacr]

Well guys,

I got my pricing for the engine. Supposedly it came out of a 99 Familia (J-spec Protege). It has 11,536 mi on it. It will cost me $1890 + $220 shipping to Texas, which comes out to $2110. I have been geting quotes from differnt shops around Arlington, and have prices ranging from $850+ to $1500 (Dealership). I am fixing to go wire the deposit to corksport now. Wish me luck folks! :D

[LinuxRacr]

Originally posted by kep0:
<STRONG>why wont the jspec ecu work?</STRONG>

This is due to wireing harness differences.

[kep0ne]

why not re-wire it like the honda guys did...i think NC_MP3 provided the wiring diagram for the Protege...im sure with some looking you could get the one for the fs-ze...and you'd be on your way...correct me if im wrong

[LinuxRacr]

This WOULD be what was needed to make it work. Cant' correct ya! :D

[cfbjr]

YIKES! Linux, you are nuts! While it's a neat project, it sounds like it might not be worth it. Why didn't your warranty cover the problem with your original engine?

[LinuxRacr]

They think that Nitrous had a role in its destruction.

[Zeus]

Now what could have given them that idea. You didn't take it to them with a bottle under the seat did you?

Good luck Ninja, I hope it works out better for you this way.

[LinuxRacr]

Hell no! I did leave the intake on since I did not have my stock one with me. I informed them the the bulked hole in the intake came like that! :D They thought that my switch for my neons could be a switch for Nitrous. How funny! ;)

[LinuxRacr]

Today I paid the rest of my money to Corksport for my engine, and also got an ACT Street Performance Clutch for$268. Both should be at the shop that I chose next week. Hopefully I will be driving/racing again by the 20th. I may just make the Dallas Auto Show in FS-ZE Style! :D

[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: Linuxninja ]

[LinuxRacr]

Jeremy T/Jeremy H.,

When I do the swap, what should I take from my old engine besides the crank angle sensor?

[big_ben]

Hey Linux, I'd keep the whole thing. Even if you have to put it on a pallet with a tarp over it in the back yard or something, it will definetely be worth it. Someone out there is for sure going to blow their engine too. Then you can sell them the parts they need to fix it. You can also sell some parts to probe owners too. If you have to use the jap ECU, sell the MP3 one to a Protege ES or Pro 5 owner. Or if you ever want to become a full flegged Texas redneck, just let the grass in the yard grow up around it while it sits and rusts. Just my suggestion. :D

[NC_MP3]

OR!!!!!

You can send some company your factory rods and pistons so they can make better ones for all of us!! I have no clue who would do this, but it's a great thought hehe.

[kep0ne]

dont eagle or crower or something (id have to look in a mag for the ad) allow you to send in your pistons/rods in, and they give you a forged replacement? not sure if they would put it on mass production, but thats one way to get forged stuff if you need it.

[LinuxRacr]

saw my engine this afternoon, and DAAAAAMMMM! The piston in cylinder 1 had a hole in it. All the others looked fine. On the head for that cylinder, it was also hammered! Basically I have a useless engine. The cylinder wall was also gone. After seeing this I really believe that the injectors are a real weak point. If I run this stuff agian, I have to have some type of failsafes in place.

[kep0ne]

anyone know the flow rate for our injectors? they might not be as weak as you think, seeing as how the install was botched. i think they really should be adequate for a 50shot of n2o, or 7-8psi, provided everything is tuned/installed right.

[Kincaid]

Originally posted by kep0:
<STRONG>anyone know the flow rate for our injectors? they might not be as weak as you think, seeing as how the install was botched. i think they really should be adequate for a 50shot of n2o, or 7-8psi, provided everything is tuned/installed right.</STRONG>

MP3-Owner is running 50 shot of N20 for months now. I'm pretty sure he hasn't had any problems.

[proberacing1]

haven't talked to ya in a little LinuxNinja but there's just so much intelligent info floating in this thread. So you're gonna get the new engine. My question is what is the deal with your ecu? I just had someone tell they called corksport and there's an aftermarket reprogrammed stock mazda ecu that is compatible. I'm not sure if they were referring to a jap or american ecu but they said "the car will not get nearly as much potential running the FSZE ecu." The guy had no other details, but i'm wondering if you built the custom wiring harness for the FSZE ecu or found another route.

[LinuxRacr]

I will be using my stock MP3 ECU until something better happens.

[proberacing1]

have you considered speaking to superchips.. these are some of the specs they ask for when moding a chip
These are the technicals Superships ask for:
if course this is for a probe 2.0 but i'm sure you the get the picture of how specific you can get into increasing the ecu to engine performance.

Camshaft Duration @.050 / Intake_________ Exhaust_________ Lobe sep______ Rocker arms ratio_______________ Heads (ported, polished, larger valves?)_____________________ Compression ratio_______________ Cubic Inches ______
Mass Air Flow Meter___________ Calibrated to__________ Throttle Body Make ________________ Size________________
Intake manifold _____________________ Injector Size lbs/hr _____________ Adjustable fuel pressure regulator _______Lbs
Aftermarket Ignition _________________ with Rev Limiter 0 Yes / Timing Retard 0 Yes / Set Rev Limiter to ________ RPM
0Turbocharger 0Supercharger Make________________ Boost __________Intercooled 0 Yes / Boost Retard 0Yes
Nitrous Oxide Make_____________________ HP ________________Wet 0 Dry 0 / FMU? 0Yes 0No
Catalytic Converters Removed 0 Yes / H or X Pipe 0 Yes / Short Tube Headers 0 Yes / Long Tube Headers 0 Yes
Transmission shift kit 0 Yes / Shift Firmness: Stock 0 / Firm 0 / Extra Firm 0 / High Stall Torque Converter RPM _______
Rear gear ratio: Old _____ / New ______ / Tire Height: Old _____(Inch) / New _____ (Inch) Speedo off by __________MPH
Pinging? 0Yes 0No At what rpm’s_______________ Check engine light? 0Yes 0No Code_________________ Octane gas used 087 089 091-93 must be used for performance gain /

[spoolinmp3]

Proberacing1,
About superchips....all you have to do is provide the specifics like you posted and they can burn a custom chip for you? If so how long does this take and how much?? Is this good for turbo applications?

[LinuxRacr]

I saw my new engine today. It looks SHAWEET! It is in good condition, has a engine/valve cover just like the MP3, but it has a Mazda emblem in the middle instead of the MP3 emblem. It looks more like our engine than the one on the Corksport site. It has the same ignition coil system that the stock MP3's have, so the spark plug wires connect the same. There is no disrubutor. One of the things that have to be changed right off the back is the flexplate. I beleive this engine came out of an automatic. All one has to do is unbolt the flexplate, and replace it with a flywheel, same bolts and all! :D I took some pictures of the engine with my watch, but have been unable to transfer them to the computer since I installed Win 2k server. Urhhhh! :mad: I really hate windows sometimes! When I get the IR port activated, I will post them.

[ 02-16-2002: Message edited by: LinuxNinja ]

[MP3-Owner]

You can take pictures with a watch? Who are you James Bond? LOL
Did you get my email? I sent you a picture of the sport 20 engine, which is what I think you got.

[LinuxRacr]

James Bond is accually my cousin! :D Not really. Yeah, I did get the e-mail. Thanx. About the watch, It is a Casio WQV-3. I have the meatal finished one. It takes picutres (80-100), and you can download via IR. It was $229 at the mall. It has other neat features like being able to trade pictures with a PDA, another WQV-3, and it has a calender, plus 4+ alarms you can set! Go to the casio website for more info.

[proberacing1]

i don't wanna get off the fsze engine discussion but to answer a question superchips offer chips for almost any car.. It is only worth it if you're car is very heavily modified. Different camshafts, bored, throttle body, injectors etc.. good for turbo and n20 applications also. You can get a flip chip for $550 which you can simply toggle back and forth for N20 use, since you must have your timing retarded for high shots. Then when running without N20 switch back to a high timing for more hp.. good for air/fuel setup also. Again though only worthwhile with very heavily modified cars.. u send the chip they reprogram and send back in like 2 days.

[LinuxRacr]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Well, I found out today that the ACT clutch that was supposedly shipped with my engine somehow dissappeared! I called Corksport, and the guy tells me that when the engine was shipped, the crate had no lid! WTF? Looks like someone walked off with my shit while in transit. They are gonna 2nd day me another one, and find out what happened to the 1st one. I should have it by Friday. In the meantime, I still have no car, and will be delayed another week.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[vegasmp3]

Be careful guys........I saw someone wrote that the mp3 stock can handle a 12psi turbo.....I think that is wrong......I spoke to a guy who knows a lot about mazda engines and the mp3......This person told me that the most the mp3 can handle stock was 9psi........Wouldn't want anyone to blow their engine......
late

[spoolinmp3]

I called superchips today, and they do not or will not make any chips for our car. As far as making a custom program chip like for turbo or a flip chip for nitrous they said no tho that too :mad: :mad: :mad:

[LinuxRacr]

Superchips has not been known for making smart marketing decisions for newer cars. That sucks!! :mad:

[Zeus]

I contacted Superchips awhile back and at the time they said they would get around to the Pros this summer. They also indicated that there wouldn't be a chip to replace, it would be a reprogram of the ECU. It seems that the prom is not in a socket. But since it is an EEprom so it can be reprogrammed while still in the box. Since I live near by Superchips, I offered the use of my car for trial setup. But, now I'm going to work on reverse engineering the box and do it myself. No sense in doing it right away though. I'm waiting on a header, and looking for a spare set of cams and such first. I'll do everything at once when it all comes together.

My point is that the box can be reprogrammed. Call around the import shops, I'll bet you'll find someone with the right scan tool. A lot of the new OBD2 systems can be reprogammed by a tech. My goal is to figure out how. I think there's a market for that skill.

[LinuxRacr]

Now Corksport says that they will ship my Clutch out tomorrow. This means that I won't have my car till Tuesday!
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: LinuxNinja ]

[wildman]

Originally posted by kep0:
<STRONG>being that its a jdm motor, of course you're gonna have emissions problems. easily solved with some cash though...if you know what i mean.</STRONG>
whats JDM?

[LinuxRacr]

JDM=J-Spec Motor.

[msilgalis]

I thought JDM stood for Japanese Domestic Market?

[kep0ne]

yes
jdm = japanese domestic market
usdm = US domestic market
j-spec = japanese specifications

blahblahblahlahsdlkfasdljfsdlajf

[LinuxRacr]

In essence, It is Japanese.

[LinuxRacr]

Called yesterday, and they (Corksport) still havn't shipped my Clutch yet! They are waiting on the pressure plate for the kit to arrive. They initially said that they would 2-day it to me, but I demanded that it be next-day aired to me. The delays..... :mad:

[MP3-Owner]

Originally posted by wildman:
<STRONG>
Originally posted by kep0:
being that its a jdm motor, of course you're gonna have emissions problems. easily solved with some cash though...if you know what i mean.</STRONG>
whats JDM?

JDM=FAST MOFO! :)

[LinuxRacr]

Hell yeah!! The UPS man just pulled up with my flywheel! :D More to come...

[LinuxRacr]

The Flywheel is shweet! It is a quality piece that is damn light! I am taking it to the shop today so that they can install it when my clutch arrives tomorrow. I can't wait till tomorrow! :D

[LinuxRacr]

Well people, more phuckin delays! The shop is having delays in getting the one part I need to get this thing to happen. :mad:

[JMS'sMSP]

HEY LINUX WHICH FLYWHEEL DID YOU USE. I WENT TO FIDANZA'S WEBSITE AND THEY DON'T HAVE ONE FOR OUR CAR.
(2001 MP3)

[LinuxRacr]

Originally posted by JMS'sMP3
HEY LINUX WHICH FLYWHEEL DID YOU USE. I WENT TO FIDANZA'S WEBSITE AND THEY DON'T HAVE ONE FOR OUR CAR.
(2001 MP3)

Get the one for the 2.0 Probe/MX-6 4 cylinder.

[LinuxRacr]

Oh, check the CAPS LOCK KEY!

[JMS'sMSP]

Sorry about the caps lock.... How much better if at all is the Fadanza Flywheel from the Indigo Flywheel???:confused:

[LinuxRacr]

I am not really sure at all. I haven't driven my car yet!

[LinuxRacr]

All,

For those who have been wanting to see some pictures of the FS-ZE that I have, go here. I haven't finished yet, so there are more to come...

FS-ZE Pics (http://forum.protegemp3.com/vbb222/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2512)

I hope to have my car back tomorrow if there are no complications!

[LinuxRacr]

Well everyone I picked up my car today. I must say it is definitely faster! Here is the play by play...

I went to the shop around 15:30 because they called and said that he was about to attempt to start it up. I got there, and he was finishing up. He fired it up, it turned over and then nothing. We attempted to see if there was even any spark. It was there, so we attempted again. It would turn over like crazy, but no start. He changed out the Crank Angle Sensor, and nothing. He finally looked at the Cam sensor, and it was damaged. The cam gears accually have been rubing the sensor. This was the case in both engines. The one that was the least screwed up was the one he went with. After this change the car started right up. During the test drive, the ECU had to relearn the car, but after that, it ran like a bat out of hell! It sounds nice to. One thing though is that the original Intake manifold had to be used becuase of the strut bar interfering with the JDM one. I will post more pictures tomorrow. More to follow.....

[mp301guy]

where did you get this done at? what place and how much was it for clutch and flywheel?

[LinuxRacr]

I got this done at Europ Asian Import Specialists (972-647-0314)in Grand Prairie. They are at the corner of Arkansaws Ln. and Great Soutwest Pkwy (about a mile north of I-20). The Clutch is about +/- $300 for the ACT Clutch Kit plus the Pilot and throw out bearings. The Fidanza Flywheel I got from:

RR-Racing (http://www.rr-racing.com)

for about....I forgot, but it was a sale price close to $300. I paid nothing for labor because of the fact that the engine was out anyway. It would be about $250-$350 for labor otherwise. I hope this helps.:D

[MP3-Owner]

Hey LinuxRacr, when you took your car to the dealership for warrenty di they take the engine out of the car before they said they weren't going to do so?
I am asking because that is what my dealer did and I am wondering if they tried to charge you for any labor?

[LinuxRacr]

I did not give them a chance to do anything to my car. I got it out of there.

[MP3-Owner]

I will send you a private message on the subject...

[ghettobubba2001]

bump for update?

[TampaSport20]

geez, raising a thread from the dead....this thread is 3 years old !!!

[Captain KRM P5]

bump for update?

lol, a 3 year old thread

i'll let linux fully explain it, but basically it did not end up being worthwhile as a swap.

[ghettobubba2001]

so go turbo instead of blowing 4 k on a motor?

[Mike R]

Exactly.

[LinuxRacr]

Exactly.

I concur...

[MI_KE]

Hi, all i'm new in here and on mazda626.net no one can exactly respond to my questions that's why i'm turning on this website.

by the way, I buy a fs-ze engine today and i want to know how install it i ask to guy at corksport and he ask me remove the fs-ze crank pulley and the cam position sensor and install your original on it thats it. The reason I buy it's because i pay it 750$ canadian so is'nt really that much.

plz post me pics or something ....
If someone can help... thanks a lot...
(rtfm)


MI_KE

[Alejo_NIN]

linuxracer, please explain why it didnt work??

thnx


i'm god - i revive threads

[Alan323]

ya, i'd like to know how the FS-ZE been doing in these 3 years???
cos i'm planning to either add a turbo OR do a FS-ZE swap on my 1.6L protege.........
i need some boost, mates ;)

[Kansei]

ya, i'd like to know how the FS-ZE been doing in these 3 years???
cos i'm planning to either add a turbo OR do a FS-ZE swap on my 1.6L protege.........
i need some boost, mates ;)

Just add a turbo. The 1.6 LOVVES turbo!

[arlsmazdaspeed]

ya, i'd like to know how the FS-ZE been doing in these 3 years???
cos i'm planning to either add a turbo OR do a FS-ZE swap on my 1.6L protege.........
i need some boost, mates ;)

yea, talk to Juan at HIBOOST , He's got an bad ass turbo kit for those with a 1.6 I believe....

[Alejo_NIN]

don't do the FS-ZE swap
is not worth it
besides, the 1.6 can take quiet a beating with a turbo

[Alan323]

the thing is 1.6L turbo kit costs me also 4K+.......but it seems like Linux has answered my question already.....

I concur...(get a turbo instead of blowing 4K on a motor)

[StealthWyvern]

don't do the FS-ZE swap
is not worth it
besides, the 1.6 can take quiet a beating with a turbo


Why is it not worth the swap for the FS-ZE? What the differences bewteen the ZE and our 2.0's, besides more power?

Wouldn't the FS-ZE be a better platform for the NA guys?

[Bala]

Why is it not worth the swap for the FS-ZE? What the differences bewteen the ZE and our 2.0's, besides more power?

Wouldn't the FS-ZE be a better platform for the NA guys?

iirc ... different intake mani and high(er) compression pistons, along with a differently calibrated ECU is all that separates a ZE from a DE. Nothing that can't be duplicated at a reputable machine shop with the right componants for less ...

*note: You'll need to source the intake mani and engine management anyway.

[StealthWyvern]

iirc ... different intake mani and high(er) compression pistons, along with a differently calibrated ECU is all that separates a ZE from a DE. Nothing that can't be duplicated at a reputable machine shop with the right componants for less ...

*note: You'll need to source the intake mani and engine management anyway.


I figured thier was more to it then tune and higher comp pistons apart from bolt ons

[Kansei]

iirc ... different intake mani and high(er) compression pistons, along with a differently calibrated ECU is all that separates a ZE from a DE. Nothing that can't be duplicated at a reputable machine shop with the right componants for less ...

*note: You'll need to source the intake mani and engine management anyway.

and cams.

[Salmon_Rob]

cant forget cams

[Bala]

cant forget cams
D'oh! Those too :D (I've got a set in my garage ... Jspec intake and a SR Motorsports "repined" Jspec exhaust clone)