How fast is a MSP

[evolv]

The 3 Mazda dealers received delivery of a MSP today. Looked and went.. oh yeah, thats sweet.

They won't let anyone drive it because of our terrible frozen roads, so here is the question of the day.

Sorry if this info was already posted, but I cannot find it anywhere.

What are the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, and the speed at the end of the 1/4.

[Equinox]

faster than me... uh

I mean, about 15.2 second at BEST in quarter

[BlackMSP]

add a boost controller and get it to mid 14's :X

[Patio]

actually more like a 14.9 in the 1/4

[Equinox]

Originally posted by Patio
actually more like a 14.9 in the 1/4

I'm pretty sure the MSP never broke into the 14's in the quarter stock, I know the type S RSX did tho.

[evolv]

14.997 at 91.32 is pretty hot... how about that 0 - 60 time?

[Heathen23]

Zero to 60mph in 7.0-6.7 depending upon media source or the driver.....

[SpicyMSP]

Hope this helps, its my MSP dyno sheet with the CAI
http://info1credit.com/bb/RD6065.jpg

[tritonheat1]

Originally posted by Equinox


I'm pretty sure the MSP never broke into the 14's in the quarter stock, I know the type S RSX did tho.


Sorry to rain on your parade,(beer) (bicker) hehe. But Lawerence Ran a 14.9@92.85mph Stock at the track so yeah technically the MS-P is in the 14's with the Type-S stock.

[evolv]

kewl... looks like 540 clams a month to lease... maybe tomorrow will be day 1... :D

[Dexter]

wjhy would you want to lease a bad ass car like this? doesnt that mean you have to give it back to them?

[LinuxRacr]

Originally posted by Equinox


I'm pretty sure the MSP never broke into the 14's in the quarter stock, I know the type S RSX did tho.

Accually our member Lawrence did this at the track to the dissbelief of many Spec-V owners. (laugh)

[Equinox]

Originally posted by LinuxRacr


Accually our member Lawrence did this at the track to the dissbelief of many Spec-V owners. (laugh)

I guess it was broken in, then :D
Cool to hear.

[StuttersC]

141.9 horse and 150.8 torque stock at the wheels...

Not bad, only a 16% loss from the tranny. Under rated from the factory, just like I thought.

[Dexter]

Originally posted by StuttersC
141.9 horse and 150.8 torque stock at the wheels...

Not bad, only a 16% loss from the tranny. Under rated from the factory, just like I thought.


you also swore 9PSI.... :p

[StuttersC]

Originally posted by Dexter



you also swore 9PSI.... :p


Yep, I did...The info I had I thought was correct as it came from the tech manuals. Which, I would take to have better, more accurate info than a mazgazine using old press releases.

But once someone finally got boost gauge on there, I was proven wrong. No big deal.

But, explain how adding more crap to a tranny makes it more efficient?? The average Protege G15-MR loses about 19%. Adding more parts such as an LSD, does not make for a more efficient tranny.

[Dexter]

Originally posted by StuttersC



Yep, I did...The info I had I thought was correct as it came from the tech manuals. Which, I would take to have better, more accurate info than a mazgazine using old press releases.

But once someone finally got boost gauge on there, I was proven wrong. No big deal.

But, explain how adding more crap to a tranny makes it more efficient?? The average Protege G15-MR loses about 19%. Adding more parts such as an LSD, does not make for a more efficient tranny.

i never said it did make the tranny more efficient. obviously, somebodys stock numbers are messed up, and yes i agree with you on the under rated from the factory.

[big_ben]

Am I the only one that noticed that the Injen CAI added 10hp to the wheels to his MSP? I personally believe the MSP is a joke, but that is pretty good gains for a 140hp car. You usually don't see gains like that from just a CAI unless you start with around 200hp to begin with. I hate to admit it, but I'm impressed. Excuse me, but I've got to go vomit now.(puke)

[Dexter]

Originally posted by big_ben
Am I the only one that noticed that the Injen CAI added 10hp to the wheels to his MSP? I personally believe the MSP is a joke, but that is pretty good gains for a 140hp car. You usually don't see gains like that from just a CAI unless you start with around 200hp to begin with. I hate to admit it, but I'm impressed. Excuse me, but I've got to go vomit now.(puke)

im 100% sure you are not the only one who noticed that.

[StuttersC]

Originally posted by Dexter


im 100% sure you are not the only one who noticed that.

However, I think you are the only who has vomitted over it so far...


Wait...Ok, nope. False alarm.

[turboge]

The car is very bottled up, at 7psi with this sized turbo I expect to see numbers close to 185 at the wheels on proper tuning. If the intake adds this much, a real exhaust and some chilled flow may help it out some more. I'm looking along the lines of taking over the computer management myself to bring real power to the car.

[brennan]

So winnepeg got there msps, dammit!, I want mine hopefully soon

[big_ben]

You will NEVER see 185 at the wheels with the current intercooler and exhaust. NEVER.

[twiztedjeckel]

wow, such optimism from somebody who doesn't even own one. glad to hear it. i'm also going to be glad to see you eat those words when it is done.

[big_ben]

I don't even have to own one to know more about it than you. Don't be so sure of yourself. I've probably forgotten more about the Protege than you will ever know about it. And I know, with that tiny turbo, you will never see 185 to the wheels with the current intercooler and exhaust. PERIOD

[MadBiker]

Be cool, twiztedjeckel. BigBen's a realist, (OK, maybe a bit pessimistic) but I don't blame him for that for all the trouble he's gone through with his MP3.

And I think I'm with BigBen. The stock turbo on the MSP has to be warrantied by Mazda, so they ain't gonna put anything on that will break the engine (read conservative). If you want more power, you might want to go with some of the other turbo kits out there and maybe even some nitrous if you don't mind voiding your warranty...there was a whole 'nuther thread on this.

[I-Am-Chris]

A T25 is capable of that horsepower and much more. Same turbo silvas come with.

[turboge]

Originally posted by big_ben
You will NEVER see 185 at the wheels with the current intercooler and exhaust. NEVER.

Did you read my above post?

I stated
The car is very bottled up, at 7psi with this sized turbo I expect to see numbers close to 185 at the wheels on proper tuning. If the intake adds this much, a real exhaust and some chilled flow may help it out some more.

The car will pickup a lot more power as it stands with proper tuning. 185whp is very possible with the current intercooler and exhaust. With a good exhaust and intercooler it will add even more.

[big_ben]

You are way wrong. You would have to up the boost to over 10psi to see 185 at the wheels. And guess what, you can't do that without blowing a rod or a piston. So, sorry, no you cant see that power out of the current setup it has.

[tritonheat1]

Originally posted by big_ben
You are way wrong. You would have to up the boost to over 10psi to see 185 at the wheels. And guess what, you can't do that without blowing a rod or a piston. So, sorry, no you cant see that power out of the current setup it has. \


Man don't hate on turboge, I'm pretty sure he will know about turbo/ mazdas then you ever will. Just b/c you are tired of the MP3" and it not holding it's value Doesn't mean you have to bash on the MSP owners now do you, :rolleyes: Take a chill pill bro, i know for a fact that turboge knows alot more than you would knowing the capabilities of the MSP- or even Turboed cars(owned) he's just stating that it's possible if it has the right tuning.

[colin949]

when a chip comes out you will see it with that same set up

[JasonH]

I'm with big_ben, and I will kindly duck to avoid anything coming tritonheat1's way...

It would be plain silly to try to increase the MSP's power via ECU tuning/raising boost without first addressing the exhaust and downpipe. Also, lower intake temps=more HP so a bigger IC is a no-brainer too.

[JasonH]

Originally posted by colin949
when a chip comes out you will see it with that same set up
What do you think this is? A VW?

P.S. - Where's that MAZDASPEED boost controller?

[Dexter]

Originally posted by colin949
when a chip comes out you will see it with that same set up

huh? what chip? :rolleyes:

[turboge]

Originally posted by big_ben
You are way wrong. You would have to up the boost to over 10psi to see 185 at the wheels. And guess what, you can't do that without blowing a rod or a piston. So, sorry, no you cant see that power out of the current setup it has.

I'm not talking about upping the boost to obtain useless power.
There is no need to up the boost level to 10psi to reach 185whp.

I'm going to blow a rod or a piston at 10psi? Wow, did you already do this? Whats going on with the FM kit on there putting out those numbers? Geeze I didn't know I should be so scared of boosting such a fragile engine......I better call up mazda and tell them their design is wrong and they will start blowing up cars soon.

Tell me Big Ben, what is the current setup that the MSP has? What is the piping diameter entering and exiting the intercooler, and what is the flow rate and maximum thermal efficiency of it? Also, what is the size of the downpipe, and exhaust piping throughout the car? What is the size of the compressor wheel, exhaust wheel, and what are the A/R's on them?

I mean seriously, do you think you know enough to even tell me that this is impossible. You're full of shit, and you get the :bs: .

Let me put this into perspective. My 1.8 Protege with a tiny little VJ-20 turbo on it, put out a healthy 200whp and 200lb-ft only running 8.5psi. Now look at the stock engine running only 125hp at the crank, and 117lb-ft... You're telling me I can't get similar numbers off of more displacement, a larger turbo, and ecu tuning?

Drop the attitude and backup your statements. No one likes an asshole who talks shit all the time, especially in a community where people are going out of their way to test out new products and develop an aftermarket for people like you.

[krillin]

hey turboge,

what's happening? :D

you have any car washing tips for me? damn california rain stopped and i wanna wash my car. also, since it's new should i be worrying about waxing it already?

[turboge]

Wash, dry, use a clay bar, then wax, polish, wax, caranuba, then spray with quik detailer. This will make it look good, and protect from the next rain and sheet it all off. Don't forget rainX on the windows.

[krillin]

Originally posted by turboge
Wash, dry, use a clay bar, then wax, polish, wax, caranuba, then spray with quik detailer. This will make it look good, and protect from the next rain and sheet it all off. Don't forget rainX on the windows.

hmm, how long will this all take? what's the clay bar used for. sorry i'm a newb. :)

[turboge]

About 6-10 hours by hand.

[krillin]

you're nutz... 6-10 hours? (sad2)

[big_ben]

Whats going on with the FM kit on there putting out those numbers?
Are you on acid or something?

Drop the attitude and backup your statements.
FM Protege turbo (http://www.flyinmiata.com/protege/tech/dyno_runs/FM_P5_6psi.pdf)
What's that? 167.5 at the wheels, and that's with a T3 turbo, not a wimpy T26. Oh yeah, and the FM intercooler is also bigger than the stock MSP intercooler. Trust me, you don't want to battle me, I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Also, I don't have an attitude, I just don't like filling peoples heads with bullshit info like you. Trust me, WITH THE CURRENT INTERCOOLER AND EXHAUST SETUP, THE MSP WILL NEVER SEE 185 TO THE WHEELS.

If you are so bad and so sure of yourself, prove me wrong. I dare you.:rolleyes:

[SpicyMSP]

---

[SpicyMSP]

UH i think turboge knows what he is talking about too. Considering he does get paid to fly out to different states and tune peoples cars

[turboge]

Originally posted by big_ben

Are you on acid or something?
What's that? 167.5 at the wheels, and that's with a T3 turbo, not a wimpy T26. Oh yeah, and the FM intercooler is also bigger than the stock MSP intercooler. Trust me, you don't want to battle me, I know what the hell I'm talking about.

I'm sorry, did you fail to see the fact that they are using the stock ecu? Keith knows damn well that if they put real management on the car it would be throwing down a much healthier number. Ben, have you ever touched a haltech, TEC-II, Link, SDS, Autronic, or Motronic Standalone? Keith and I have, step off. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about.


Also, I don't have an attitude, I just don't like filling peoples heads with bullshit info like you. Trust me, WITH THE CURRENT INTERCOOLER AND EXHAUST SETUP, THE MSP WILL NEVER SEE 185 TO THE WHEELS.

Actually you do, and it's been stated to you over and over. You don't believe it because you are so thick headed you don't understand what you are saying. My info is backed up by my own numbers and tuning, I have been tuning mazda engines for 3 years, go get yourself some real tuning experience and come back without the chip on your shoulder.


If you are so bad and so sure of yourself, prove me wrong. I dare you.:rolleyes:

No problem, send me $2000 and I'll take care of that problem you call bullshit.

[MSP Pro]

Braden: With the 1.8L Protege and the VJ20 turbo, you say you're getting 200whp. Doesn't the 1.8L have the same tranny as our 2.0L MSP? I read in SCC that the MSP hp was limited to save the tranny. What do you figure is the limit that the tranny can take without drastically shortening it's life. Since you're running 200whp through the same tranny, have you experienced any problems? I'm not talking drag racing clutch dumps strength, just good old track time and autox useage. Just trying to get a feel for the power limits of the drivetrain.

[turboge]

1.8 = G25MR max 375lb-ft and 450hp
2.0 = G15MR max 275lb-ft and 325hp (theoretical)

The main problem is case flex, the case will flex under high load and shock and cause the gearset to move, this will blow holes in the casing.

I've tuned a 1.8 with a larger turbo to 282whp and 280lb-ft and had no tranny problems. On higher boost with my VJ-20 I was running 235whp and 265lb-ft of torque. No problems.

We take it easy on our trannies, no power shifts, slipping the clutch on launch. They will last a while if you drive them that way.

[big_ben]

Like I said, prove me wrong. I backed my info up. Back yours up.

[SpicyMSP]

are you going to pay for it?

[APEXistud]

Just a thought here, but even when you get the MSP to 185 whp, it won't be extremely fast on at the track or doing a freeway run. Plain and simple, the t25 is perfect for quick spool up and fast midrange driving ie: autocrossing, but is not ideal for drag racing or top end power. If you want more top end power, the only way to go aside from BPU (Basic Performance Upgrades) like exhuast, intake or filter, downpipe, is a larger turbo. A larger turbo should be in your upgrade list along with some sort of engine management. I won't go as far as saying that the MSP can't get there only doing the "BPU", but I will say that if you want real power, real power being top end power you have to get a larger turbo you can't be too optimistic about the tiny t25. From looking at the MSP's engine bay, there is definately room for a larger turbo. My final thoughts are that it is too early to say what you can get to the wheels on the MSP after "BPU". We'll have to see what the little bitch is capable of before we start drawing conclusions.

[chwood]

Originally posted by APEXistud
From looking at the MSP's engine bay, there is definately room for a larger turbo. My final thoughts are that it is too early to say what you can get to the wheels on the MSP after "BPU". We'll have to see what the little bitch is capable of before we start drawing conclusions.


(2thumbs)

well holy sheyit, would ya look at that - a post sensibly NOT jumping to conclusions before the data is in!

The crowd is stunned!

[1sty]

I would think the main limiting factor of the MSP is the effeciency of the T25 at over 7 PSI of boost. Not being an expert but to my knowledge the T25 will mostly just be throwing heat that damn near nothing could take at higher boost levels. But I see no reason why at even 6 PSI the MSP would not be able to hit the 185whp mark with a well designed and unrestrictive exhuast intake and better intercooler along wiht a fully tunable engine management system.

Hey Turboge, wiht the new version of WDS coming out will that allow for a better turbo tune for all bossted proteges?

Will you take $2K to get 225 whp from my MP3?

[turboge]

I'll tune your car if you decide to put a haltech in it. $2k should get you a well setup E-11 and some dyno time in your area. The E6K could work but you'd be out a couple of features. With the T3 on the MP3 225 is not a problem with some good gas.

I ran a .48/.60 T3 on a Miata and hit 292rwhp @ 10psi w/ 100 octane. With 91 octane we put out 250whp @ 10psi.

This T25 will run up to 1bar. 12psi is a very good efficiency point.

[1sty]

NICE!
Can only run 94 octane day to day though.

[turboge]

Thats fine, I did the 282whp 1.8 Turbo with 93 octane. We even ran it at 30psi for 1 run to see how well it'd do. Made more torque but the head couldn't flow anymore.

[1sty]

Any idea why people have come to comonly accept that the FS engine can't handle more then 10PSI?

How much does the Haltech and all the other pars i will need for it go for?

[turboge]

Not a lot of people have actual experience with anything greater than the stock ecu...

I do the E6K kit for $1300. I haven't received a pricing sheet on the E-11. Those are hard to get right now because of massive ordering on them when they were released.

[1sty]

Well I just down loaded the E11 manual I will get the E6K and start reading ASAP!

[StuttersC]

It'll be interesting to see what the MSP can do.

But, I'll stick with my MP3 turbo, and wait for Keith and the gang to get the trick set up. They are close.

[1sty]

HAVE YOU BEEN BOTHERING THEM AGAIN?

Jesus, after you they are never dealing with a Protege owner again. :D

[StuttersC]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH
HAVE YOU BEEN BOTHERING THEM AGAIN?

Jesus, after you they are never dealing with a Protege owner again. :D


They love me...No no really, they really love me there.

I play with the animals while I'm there.:p

[turboge]

Originally posted by 1st MP3 in NH
Well I just down loaded the E11 manual I will get the E6K and start reading ASAP!

I have the E6K manual in PDF if you need it. The E-11 one is huge.

[1sty]

That would be cool I can only get its spec sheet online.

[turboge]

PM me your e-mail and i'll send it.

[OrangeSpeed]

There is a shop down the road from me....Evolution Motorsports....The owner said he was watching speed vision i think and saw he saw a protege pushing 500 horsepower or something anyone see this?? He said it was the same block as ours im not sure. Just checking...oh and i too ordered a K&N Filter for my car

[boosted protege]

i think the t25 has pretty good mid range and top end i am running 9 psi of boost and my car pulls very hard top end. and for everyone that doesnt know this is the same size turbo that came in the turbo eclipses and they run 12-14 psi stock.....one eclipse in our club before he upgraded to a 16g gained 34 hp over stock by uping the boost to 17psi and changing exhaust and intercooler piping and b o v and this was with the stock intercooler and downpipe.....that much boost is alot harder on the turbo but he got 145000 out of the stock turbo before a cloged oil line caused turbine failure... i can see 185whp out of our msps with the stock ecu and intercooler...when i have my downpipe and exhaust done i am having the car dyno tuned at 9psi ill be sure to post the results

[I-Am-Chris]

Originally posted by big_ben

Are you on acid or something?

FM Protege turbo (http://www.flyinmiata.com/protege/tech/dyno_runs/FM_P5_6psi.pdf)
What's that? 167.5 at the wheels, and that's with a T3 turbo, not a wimpy T26. Oh yeah, and the FM intercooler is also bigger than the stock MSP intercooler. Trust me, you don't want to battle me, I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Also, I don't have an attitude, I just don't like filling peoples heads with bullshit info like you. Trust me, WITH THE CURRENT INTERCOOLER AND EXHAUST SETUP, THE MSP WILL NEVER SEE 185 TO THE WHEELS.

If you are so bad and so sure of yourself, prove me wrong. I dare you.:rolleyes:

Ok its a t25 not a t26. HAHA Owned!!! proved you wrong lol!! Damn I guess I'm pretty BAD

[Aricjm15]

Ok its a t25 not a t26. HAHA Owned!!! proved you wrong lol!! Damn I guess I'm pretty BAD

ah hell dude
you shouldnt have said that
Big_ben is gonna come kick your ass

is it true that if you have two turbos, one larger than the other,
and if they are running the same psi, that the larger turbo will produce more hp, because the larger turbo can put out more CFM?

[I-Am-Chris]

yes thats why you can upgrade your turbo and run lower boost and get the same horsepower.

[BoOsTiN]

I believe its because the large turbo can produce boost more efficiently. i.e. does not heat the air as much as the smaller turbo would.

[boostedmazda]

the MSP comes with the same turbo as the 2nd gen eclipse's and their HP is right around there.....the t25 has potential.

[StuttersC]

Originally posted by boostedmazda
the MSP comes with the same turbo as the 2nd gen eclipse's and their HP is right around there.....the t25 has potential.

It might be the same type of turbo, however I thought the actual size of the housing is slightly smaller than that of the Eclipse T-25. And I'm sure the turbine is set up differently as well.

[APEXistud]

Originally posted by I-Am-Chris
yes thats why you can upgrade your turbo and run lower boost and get the same horsepower.

This is exactly what I want people to understand. By swapping out the factory unit for a larger one, you can lower the boost for a mean time. Also, a larger turbo with a different trim will produce power at a different point in your revband.

Different strokes for different folks of course. I would prefer the boost that kicks in a little later and hits you in the back like a sledge hammer over linear boost that is spread out evenly over the rev band.:D That's just me of course.

[Aricjm15]

I would prefer the boost that kicks in a little later and hits you in the back like a sledge hammer over linear boost that is spread out evenly over the rev band

HELL YEAH!!!

thats the way it should be!!!

there is also an added plus
when racing, the other guy thinks he is going to win, then 8psi OF BOOST AND YOU FLY PAST THE BASTARD:D (rockon)

[AkiraFist]

wow, all this talk about high horse powered cars is making me drool. i wish i could give someone 2000 bucks to make my car fast. maybe when i become rich..