practicality of a turbo...

[cougfan99]

Lets be realistic- based on the knowledge that the probe engine had a turbo version, and the probe engine is essentially the same as ours, the possibility of having a turbo MP3 is there, but is it really practicle?

Gaining a generous 30 HP from the engine to 170 still would not make our cars drag racers, plus the gas mileage would drop significantly, probably lower than most V6 cars.

And weighing the outrageous cost of installing a turbo against the resale value of the car once installed, makes the turbo seem like a waste.

Lets be realistic- this car is a roadster, not a speedster, and it always will be.
:cool:

[Razhael]

and once again, thats your opinion.

im just glad i convinced some ppl over the mp5online forums to go to Mr. Corky Bell for some turbo kit! :D

[APEXistud]

Yeah, 30hp would be a complete waste of everyones's time concidering you can possibly get those numbers from our motor staying NA.

If someone had the money to build a custom, I'm sure they'd shot for somewhere around 210-220whp. Or at least that's what I'd expect from a turbo's 2.0 liter.

[Razhael]

well, i dunno who came up with 30hp number, but Mr. Bell himself estimated to get 205 to 215 with a 6 to 8 psi turbo kit on the 140 2.0 that we have. And why is everybody talking like we can really do the intake cam upgrade? it says clearly is not legal :(

[APEXistud]

Rahzel, Rahzel buddy. You're forgetting that turboing a car that isn't turbo from the factory is pretty illegal everywhere. The only place you really have to worry about it though (from my understanding) is California. Now I could be wrong and other states may have tough smog laws, but it seems like they're rarely enforced.

And even if you do have aftermarket cams or a an aftermarket cam in this case, chances are, you'll still pass a smog test if it's tuned properly. As most of us know, a smog test has 2 parts, the visual part and the tail pipe sniffer. With a cam and and drop in K&N filter or even the AEM which is CARB'd and 50-state legal, you'd definately pass the visual. And if the car is tuned properly you should pass the sniffer too.

So, I definately wouldn't eliminate the Cam & intake idea. Unfortunately though, until someone comes up with an aftermarket header that eliminates the Cat in the stock exhaust manifold, we're not going to see big increases in hp with each mod. Actually, as long as we have the stock exhaust manifold on the car, no one will crack the 170whp mark (economically), without the aid of NOS or forced induction. Just my .02 cents

[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: APEXistud ]

[Razhael]

Originally posted by APEXistud:
<STRONG>Rahzel, Rahzel buddy. You're forgetting that turboing a car that isn't turbo from the factory is pretty illegal everywhere. The only place you really have to worry about it though (from my understanding) is California. Now I could be wrong and other states may have tough smog laws, but it seems like they're rarely enforced.
[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: APEXistud ]</STRONG>

wrong! :D well at least that illegal turbo statement is wrong if you are talking of a BEGI turbo kit! their systems are CARB legal. But actually, i was asking around yesterday, and the county where i live, they dont use the sniffer for the inspection, just the visual, and I do remember when i registered my old miata to TX (it had florida plates) they hardly check my lights and gave me the paper :confused: but im worried of installing the cams and then moving to a place where they actually do the CARB test

[NC_MP3]

Hahaha, you guys think that 30 HP is all you can get out of a turbo? Yes, the initial kits may only give you 60-70 HP (doubt any kit will give as little as 30), but if you give it time we will have kits to take the MP3 to 300 HP @ the engine, easy.

Look at it this way. I have an Integra LS. It has 140 HP stock, just like the MP3. I added a Gen Drag 3 turbo kit. This was a complete bolt on kit. Came with an intercooler, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, even guages and a guage pod. I have this kit, and a cat back exhaust system from Apex. Haven't had the car dyno'd, but the turbo kit alone is rated at 265 HP @ the wheels. Now that is prolly about 280 HP @ the engine. That is 140 HP gain, running at only 6 pounds of boost.

The only thing holding us back right now is the stock fuel system, I would think. Once we get better fuel pumps and bigger injectors, I think we can put together a kit with a front mount intercooler that will give us 300 HP @ the engine. After that, we need pistons, rods, rings, crank, throttle body, ignition, all that needs to be upgraded to go past 300.

I am not an expert, just saying what I think from working on Honda engines.

[APEXistud]

Rahzel, Rahzel buddy. A turbo cannot be CARB approved without being tested. So if any turbo which is still in development is being advertised as CARB legal without being tested, it should be considered false advertising. No company can release a kit and just say "CARB'd, 50-state legal" Unless it has been tested by the California Air Resource Board and has been given CARB exemption. Plain and simple. They can say that their goal is to be CARB exempt, but without testing it will remain to be seen. And as for BEGI, they still don't have a 2.0 liter Mazda MP3 turbo kit, so you can't exaclty say that there kit is CARB when it doesn't even exist.

I see no need to worry about the cams. Seeing as how I know quite a few people who own Civic SI's and have CTR Civic Type R cams in their cars and still pass smog exams. And my brother who owns a Focus and has cams aswell, he passes with flying colors. So, I imagine that there wouldn't be a problem.

[YellowMP3#1237]

Originally posted by SanFranMP3:
<STRONG>Lets be realistic- based on the knowledge that the probe engine had a turbo version, and the probe engine is essentially the same as ours, the possibility of having a turbo MP3 is there, but is it really practicle?
</STRONG>

The probe's turbo won't fit our motors at all. It is a totally different motor from our FS motor. Their 93-97 base model has the same motor as us, but not the older turbo ones.

[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: YellowMP3#1237 ]

[LinuxRacr]

Hey,

Just wondering, when you put your indiglos on, were you able to do it so that your needles still function correctly?

[MazdaMP]

hey, where did u connect the power wires to?
i remember when i installed indiglos in a Civic we had to connect them to the headlight?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?

[LinuxRacr]

I had them installed by a someone else.

[YellowMP3#1237]

I installed mine myself without any problems. I connected it to the parking light fuse and it works without any problems.

[LinuxRacr]

You did have to pull the needles off didn't you? :confused:

[YellowMP3#1237]

nope. I just flexed the guage face a lil and fit it around the needle. rotated it, and snaped it into place. It was easy :)

[LinuxRacr]

What Brand are you using?

[subywan-kenobi]

Originally posted by NC_MP3:
<STRONG>Look at it this way. I have an Integra LS. It has 140 HP stock, just like the MP3. I added a Gen Drag 3 turbo kit. This was a complete bolt on kit. Came with an intercooler, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, even guages and a guage pod. I have this kit, and a cat back exhaust system from Apex. Haven't had the car dyno'd, but the turbo kit alone is rated at 265 HP @ the wheels. Now that is prolly about 280 HP @ the engine. That is 140 HP gain, running at only 6 pounds of boost.........I am not an expert, just saying what I think from working on Honda engines.</STRONG>
That you are not an expert is obvious from your post. Am I the only one who is gonna call BS on this claim?? I'm sorry, but the gains you talk about running only 6 psi are absurd!! The kits out for the GSR don't even give you that to the wheels at #s like 8 psi. Go get your car dyno'd and post the results. I can guarantee you, you will not put those #s to the ground at 6 psi.

Slapping a TD05-18G on a GSR running 8.5 lbs of boost will only yield 255 whp bro and you are telling me that with an oversized T3/T4 for your motor, you are putting out more than a GSR.......on top of that, doing it with less boost!!

I almost have to think you are joking :confused: I'm sorry, but I've seen too many dyno charts in my time and have run into too many boosted Si's, Integras, and the like to believe such a claim without some hardcore #s.

[cougfan99]

Yes- no offense intended, but I too call BS on this one. The bottom line is that power is expensive, and doubling the hp from an engine with a simple bolt on kit and 6psi is absurd.

If power were that cheap and easy, every new car would have that system installed from the factory and the dealorship would make a killing off the markup.

I guarantee that the developement and production cost of the WRX engine far surpasses ours. Go to the Subaru homepage and "build" a WRX equipped similar to our car... I got an MSRP of 24K... that's a far cry from 18.5- so if people are talking about simple kits to gain major power, remember: things that seem too good to be true, probably are.

[NC_MP3]

Yeah OK, whatever. I can't say anything about MP3's or anything, but I can say shit about Honda's cause I have been working on them since I was 16, I am 20 now. No, I haven't got my car dyno'd, but I have alot of friends, online and off and a few of them put the exact same kit on the exact same car with no other mods and got 265 @ the wheels. Don't believe me? Lemme dig up some posts on the Gen Drag 3 kit. You get what you pay for. I paid $3200 for the kit and got a very good quality kit, with a front mount intercooler, and yes the power is there. I beat a stock Z28 by about a car length. How much HP do they have? Like 300 + right? Don't say I am BSing when you have no clue what you are talking about. I am new with Mazda but Honda is what I grew up on.

[NC_MP3]

Oh, and if you didn't know the LS engine is far better than the GSR. Only thing GSR has going is the Vtec head. Why do you think people buy LS's and then put a Vtec head on it? Cause anything you do to an LS and a GSR, the LS will always yield more power. I am not gonna argue though. Why the hell you gotta start shit for? Did I start anything with you? If you don't believe me then read the post and mind your own buissness.

But I am right.

[NC_MP3]

OK, didn't have time to dig through all my posts on Speed Options and other boards, but I went to Overboost.com and just pulled up the kit in the online store. They claim 283.1 HP and 190.2 lbs/ft. torque with the Drag 3 kit. Will that give 265 @ the wheels? I think so. I rest my case.

<a href=http://www.overboost.com/obs/product.asp?pid=880&cat_id=1&cat_name=Forced%20Induction&sc_id=3&sc_name=Turbo%20Kits target =_blank>Here's the link</a>

Now you can argue that they say that but it really doesn't give you that much, and they have the boost turned up. You can argue all you want, but that kit with 6-7 psi of boost will give you that much.


Originally posted by: subywan-kenobi
Slapping a TD05-18G on a GSR running 8.5 lbs of boost will only yield 255 whp bro and you are telling me that with an oversized T3/T4 for your motor, you are putting out more than a GSR.......on top of that, doing it with less boost!!

What kinda kit was that? A $1000 POS kit that someone like you put together in their garage?


Originally posted by: subywan-kenobi
I almost have to think you are joking I'm sorry, but I've seen too many dyno charts in my time and have run into too many boosted Si's, Integras, and the like to believe such a claim without some hardcore #s.

Looks like the only thing you have seen is the ass end of cars when they beat your sorry ass cause you obviously don't know what you are talking about.


Originally posted by SanFranMP3:
The bottom line is that power is expensive, and doubling the hp from an engine with a simple bolt on kit and 6psi is absurd.
You call a Gen Drag 3 kit a simple bolt on kit? Yes it is a bolt on kit, but it isn't simple. Over 3 grand is not a simple bolt on kit. It is a very good quality, complete kit. Yes other kits may only give you 220-250 HP, but I bet they cost alot less too.


Originally posted by SanFranMP3:
If power were that cheap and easy, every new car would have that system installed from the factory and the dealorship would make a killing off the markup.
Again, this isn't a "cheap" kit. If this were to be installed by the dealer, they would prolly mark it up a grand, and charge installation, bringing the price of an Integra LS from ~$18000 to ~23000. Thats 3000 for the kit, 1000 markup, and 1000 installation, yes dealers will rip ya off :)

Meet me on the street and you will find out the hard way what my Integra can do. Don't make posts when you don't know what you're talking about.

[ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: NC_MP3 ]

[NC_MP3]

Or, you can read the How To on the same kit at overboost: <a href=http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=57 target =_blank>Here</a>

Read the last paragraph. Also, it says in there the wastegate is set to 6-7 psi from the factory.

[NC_MP3]

SOOOO.....back to the original topic. A complete kit, with an intercooler and fuel pump, should get us to ~250 no problem. Honda engines are well known for reacting well to forced induction. Our engines may react the same, or they may make alot less power with the same boost. We should be able to run 6 psi on a stock engine. I am working on getting 200 HP all engine first, then I will look into a turbo. I am way broke at the moment cause I just got alot of stuff for my Integra. Got the turbo, Apex N1 cat back, and a C-West Japanese conversion body kit =) I want to sell the kit though and get some Vtec killer cams and a stroker kit hehehehe.

I will post some pics sometime. I think I have some of the car and the kit when it first came in, I sat the turbo on my coffee table for a while hehe. Don't have any pics of the turbo on the car, will get some soon.

[cougfan99]

Somebody took a post a little too seriously, I think.

[NC_MP3]

Nah, somebody doesn't like bullshit flamers who pretend to know what they are talking about :) I seem to have shut him up hehe.

[Brian MP5T]

2001 BUMP From The Past...

[Dimitrios]

Good lordie Brian...why must you torture us with old thread like this....WHYYYYYYY!!!!!!!

[Brian MP5T]

It's funny.

BEFORE THE P5
BEFORE THE MSP Clunk, Fuel Cut, FLASH,

[jflo]

ahahaha i can't believe someone was actually complaining that turbo-ing the MP3 would be a complete waste of time to go to about 170hp, and then BAM. MSP. and people are hitting some good numbers with turbo kits on MP5s and MP3s.

I <3 Mazda Forums

[pingdum]

ahahaha i can't believe someone was actually complaining that turbo-ing the MP3 would be a complete waste of time to go to about 170hp, and then BAM. MSP. and people are hitting some good numbers with turbo kits on MP5s and MP3s.

I <3 Mazda Forums
You notice the person who started this thread only has 63 posts since 2001. They probably gave up and dropped out long ago.

[Brian MP5T]

ahahaha i can't believe someone was actually complaining that turbo-ing the MP3 would be a complete waste of time to go to about 170hp, and then BAM. MSP. and people are hitting some good numbers with turbo kits on MP5s and MP3s.

I <3 Mazda Forums

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Brian%20MP5T/Boom%206.jpg

Ha People are learning...

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Brian%20MP5T/MP5T%20ENGINE%20REBUILD%20-%20%285%29.jpg