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View Full Version : Tranny, and LSD


smp3000
02-05-2003, 12:40 AM
Sup guys...

As you all know- you guys are lucky to have a tranny with an LSD. Being a fellow turbo guy myself I see and feel the NEED for such. There are many rumors floating around about various LSD's available for the MP3/protege but nothing othe rhtan the Quaiffe (1200$) have I seen to really exist.... Also is the dilema of possibly buying the MSP LSD from mazda, but no one seems to know if they're selling that part to just anyone...

Which brings me to the question.. If buying the LSD is over $500 from mazda, why not just buy the entire tranny? It wouldn't be much more, would be a new tranny, would be a tranny swap instead of a disection, and would just be a hell of a lot cooler to do.

Is the MSP tranny available, if so how much?
dafababa
02-05-2003, 02:38 AM
if im not wrong than we have the same trans that you do
scapamouche
02-05-2003, 02:48 AM
I can't speak for Mazda, but the 6-speed in a Celica GT-S goes for almost $2000 by itself: and that's withOUT an LSD....
smp3000
02-05-2003, 09:33 AM
yes, it is the same tranny- minus the LSD.... But a new tranny is a new tranny.:)
Kooldino
02-05-2003, 10:27 AM
What's a G series tranny cost?
What's the tranny w/ the MSP LSD cost?
The quaife might be worth the $1200...buy it and find out!
smp3000
02-05-2003, 10:34 AM
hmmm very true.... $1200 is just such a punch to the stomach. I hate to even inquire about this, but how horrible is the instal on an LSD? Would I have to mod the internals of the tranny? Or is it a simple- open up- instal- close up?
Logan
02-05-2003, 10:42 AM
Yes, the transmission has to be opened up to install a limited slip.
Most quaiffe ones are not viscous, they are "clutch" based.
viscous is more driver friendly, and makes the on/off effect of the limited slip "transparent". its a smoother action when it starts to work etc.
The quaiffe one is built to withstand racing stresses, and will certainly be a good product.
I know lots of guys with quaiffe lsd's in other cars, and have never heard a complaint. of course, they are rally cars.
the clutch action in the quaiffe comes on fast, and really works hard.
both do the job, just in different ways.

I read a really good article somewhere on the net spelling out the differences between the various kinds, but can't find it now...
smp3000
02-05-2003, 10:44 AM
Right on... I wonder if Mr Quaifee has a daughter I could take out or somehting (maybe then he'd knock off some $$$) :rolleyes:
scapamouche
02-05-2003, 10:55 AM
The MSP LSD is not a viscous unit: it is a helical unit: much more effective than a viscous LSD.
Logan
02-05-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by big_ben
Oh yeah, every car review that I just looked up on the MSP, the lows were "TORQUE STEER". Get the Quaiffe, you won't regret it.
I've read more lows about "seats" than anything...
dafababa
02-05-2003, 11:28 AM
I dont meen to change the topic but if you look at the link in the part about suspension it says poly bushings in the front and rubber in the rear. i kbnow that they are diff sizes but why would they put poly in the front and rubber in the rear?
big_ben
02-05-2003, 11:29 AM
Probably because most of the weight is in the front. Poly is stronger and can take more abuse and not fail.
Logan
02-05-2003, 11:35 AM
because they want every mp3 and msp owner to experience "the clunk"
big_ben
02-05-2003, 11:38 AM
Good answer! I really never had any problems at all with the clunk from my MP3.
Logan
02-05-2003, 11:39 AM
I haven't gotten my MSP yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
dafababa
02-05-2003, 11:53 AM
it is not diff than the mp3 in terms of the clunk.
blynzoo
02-05-2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Logan
Yes, the transmission has to be opened up to install a limited slip.
Most quaiffe ones are not viscous, they are "clutch" based.
viscous is more driver friendly, and makes the on/off effect of the limited slip "transparent". its a smoother action when it starts to work etc.
The quaiffe one is built to withstand racing stresses, and will certainly be a good product.
I know lots of guys with quaiffe lsd's in other cars, and have never heard a complaint. of course, they are rally cars.
the clutch action in the quaiffe comes on fast, and really works hard.
both do the job, just in different ways.

I read a really good article somewhere on the net spelling out the differences between the various kinds, but can't find it now... Here:
clutch-type LSD (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential6.htm)
viscous coupling (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential7.htm)
PaulMP3
02-05-2003, 02:28 PM
i read some where that the fork plate(is that what its called)? is different also in the MSP, my tech at my dealer also told me this. someone posted all the part #'s somewhere. This was probally due to all the broken forks in the MP3's. It might be worth getting while you have the tranny apart.
Newf
02-05-2003, 03:18 PM
first I heard of the forks being differerent...interesting.
turboge
02-05-2003, 03:25 PM
Don't forget that the Axles on the MSP are also different from the MP3 and Protege ES. You will need them as well to complete the swap of transmissions.
OrangeAppeal
02-05-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by turboge
Don't forget that the Axles on the MSP are also different from the MP3 and Protege ES. You will need them as well to complete the swap of transmissions.

I think you could use the axles from the MP3 or the ES, just the shafts on the MSP are thicker....i'm pretty sure the end spline count/diameter will be the same.
phantom
02-05-2003, 04:44 PM
well, since I haven't experienced the infamous 'clunk' yet (haven't got any MSP / MP3)... I am going to ask a dumb question.

can we just take off the racing beat sway bar and throw everything away and buy an aftermarket sway bar instead?? would this solves the problem?? I am assuming the aftermarket would have bushing available with the sway bar?? would autoexe have one??
Logan
02-05-2003, 04:49 PM
I don't see why you couldn't get one from elsewhere...
It's just a sway bar.

However, I believe everyone's issue is that the factory ones should NOT cause any problems!!!
Logan
02-05-2003, 04:49 PM
Why should WE have to spend money to replace parts that MAZDA didn't do right?
jmauld
02-07-2003, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by Logan
Yes, the transmission has to be opened up to install a limited slip.
Most quaiffe ones are not viscous, they are "clutch" based.
viscous is more driver friendly, and makes the on/off effect of the limited slip "transparent". its a smoother action when it starts to work etc.
The quaiffe one is built to withstand racing stresses, and will certainly be a good product.
I know lots of guys with quaiffe lsd's in other cars, and have never heard a complaint. of course, they are rally cars.
the clutch action in the quaiffe comes on fast, and really works hard.
both do the job, just in different ways.

I read a really good article somewhere on the net spelling out the differences between the various kinds, but can't find it now...

The quaife's are not clutch based. They are a mechanical design that uses gears, not clutches. Have a peak inside one here: Quaife Info (http://www.quaifeusa.com/differentials/diffs.htm)

Also, LSD's will not get rid of torque steer. They may reduce it, but they won't get rid of it. If you want to get rid of torque steer, weld your diff. I have a quaife in my mirage, and it still torque steers enough that you have to grip the hell out of the steering wheel to hold it in place.

Clutch-type LSD's work well, but some of them require special maintenance (ie. oil changes). Viscous LSDs use a thick fluid.. I think the biggest problem with them is that they are a little slow to react. My old AWD talon had a Viscous center lsd and you could see my front wheels spinning for about a second before the back wheels got power.

FYI, a HUGE advantage of the quaife is that it has a lifetime warranty. If you break it, you get a new one, and they are good about replacing them. Even if you race with it.

A disadvantage of the quaife is that if one tire is on a zero friction surface (hanging in the air) then the other tire is not going to get any power. Hopefully you won't be lifting your front tires into the air though.
dafababa
02-07-2003, 03:07 AM
God damn right!
dafababa
02-07-2003, 03:08 AM
sorry about the swears
MikeyG_U2
02-07-2003, 04:04 PM
I've heard that if you are in a situation where one tire is in the air and just spinning, applying the brakes a bit will exert the necessary force to make the LSD kick in and pull you out. I've only read about this with awd cars though.
Logan
02-07-2003, 04:12 PM
That's a trick you will also find in the manual for a Hummer.
MikeyG_U2
02-07-2003, 05:17 PM
Ah yes, that is where I read that. It makes sense to me, perhaps it would work on a less advanced differential as well.
azrakain
02-10-2003, 11:17 PM
not to sound like a moron or anything, but i was under the assumption that one wheeling it was a bad thing with a quaife dif. In their instructions i believe it says something about when jacking the car up (in the front) be sre that both wheels come up or else you risk breaking it. I would assume that this would hold true for getting one wheel up in the air while racing. I've never personnaly had my front wheel (have had the rear up though) in the air. Just something that i was thinking about while reading this thread.....