13 seccond SpecV and FIRST MSP track times

[Lawerence]

So last friday night my friends and I went to the track!
There were three of us 00' civic Si with I/H/E and some fuel stuff; My old 02' SpecV with nitrous, injen CAI, Custom 2.5' exhaust, new nitto 555's (UR pulley not yet installed); and me...all stock Our friend with the WRX was going to come...but then he remembered he is a pussy and is afraid of the track....anyhow....
We were only there for an hour, and we all got two runs..
First my friend with the civic rav against an auto V6 camaro.
The Si hit a 15.1 @ 92, beatin gthe camaro..only because the other guys reaction times sucked...
His seccond run was against an older lightning needles to say he got whooped, he ran an even slower 15.7@ 90 but he missed 3rd on that run.
My first run was pretty bad
60' 2.416
1/8 9.871
1/4 15.207 @ 91.61

My seccond run was alot better:
60' 2.241
1/8 9.599
1/4 14.907 @ 92.85

My friend in the spec went against an 00' Mustang GT (5spd), and a riced out cavilier.

He ran a 14.117@99.13 against teh cavvy.

and I think (not shure) he is the fastest recorded specV (with a qr25), running a 13.846@99.87, against the mustangs 14.3@9x(dont remember).

So my friend amazed me with his specV times almost made me wish I didnt sell the car. And even though my friend in the civic cant drive, he did better than his first time out (when he was running high 15s). I was very happy, everoyone was telling me that I coulsnt hit 14s stock...well HAHAHA!!!
anyhow it was pretty cool. There was a brand new Vette there than was running mid 13s (hahahaha). And there was a crazy all motor neon that was running 12s on slicks.
Good times

[AltimaSE]

Man those are some great times! (Both for the Spec-V and the MSP) :)

Are you running your MSP stock? I think that you're gonna become my new best friend on this board as I continue to debate which car to buy (MSP or Spec-V) because you've actually owned them both.

Some days I read all of the problem threads on b15sentra and lean over towards the MSP then other days I read threads like this and think, "Well maybe the Spec is the way to go". My wife always reminds me, "Whichever car you pick you're gonna have til it's paid off". :rolleyes:

Continue to post any more insights you have as to the pros and cons of each car and I'll continue to pull my hair out as I try and decide before this spring which one to get. :)

[LinuxRacr]

If you hit 14's, I know I can now.:D....Provided I learn how to launch! Have you posted over on the RSX boards yet about your times?

:eek: OH SHIT!! Post # 3000!

[Grimace]

I frequent both boards too. Even most of the Sentra guys agree that the MSP will outhandle their Spec V's. They are both about the same in a straight line; it pretty much comes down to which driver is better.
You can't go wrong with either, really, as long as you stick to the '03 Spec V's. The '02's had waaaaay to many problems. The '03's still have minor issues (paint quality, minor rattles, etc.) but its nowhere near as bad as the 02's.
Then again, there are some largely trouble-free '02's too. But I know if it were me I'd stick with an '03; then you don't have to worry about 1st year quality-issues biting you in the a$$ and about the previous owner abusing the car.
I'm 99% sold on the MSP, but there are some days when I'm feeling poor that I wonder if I shouldn't go with a Spec V with no options and save ~$70 Canadian a month on the lease.
One thing is for sure - the seats in the Specs are much more supportive than the MSP. And you can get them in many more colours. But other than that, I don't see any advantages over the MSP (except price).

[AltimaSE]

Thanks for the post Grimace. :)

Price is always a sticking point in my head too. According to the build/price thingy on both Mazda's and Nissan's website configured the way I want it there would be ~$18/mo difference in price between the two. Of course that's MSRP on the Spec and I know I could get it for less than that. Where as the MSP would be right at MSRP. I haven't called my agent yet, but I think the MSP might be a little more to insure though as well.

If I choose the Spec-V I would definately go with the 03 Spec, although my Nissan dealer does still have a loaded, red 02 Spec sitting on the lot that I'm sure he's trying to get rid of. Another factor might be that I think if I got the Spec I would order the car and not play around with that dealer trade crap. That way I can be sure when it comes off the truck no one has abused it before hand.

But despite the price difference the MSP still pulls me in with its handling, stereo, and turbo coolness. I just wish they would offer a sunroof!

Ah well, I don't think I'm 99% like you Grimace, but I'm more like 60% MSP/40% Spec-V. I've gotta decide before spring time. :rolleyes:

[Kooldino]

Nah, even 15.2 is a good time for the MSP...magazines got it in 15.1 or 15.2.

but 14.9...nice! That's as fast as the LIGHTER RSX Type S that has an extra 30hp! way to go!

[AGR]

Originally posted by AltimaSE
Thanks for the post Grimace. :)

Price is always a sticking point in my head too. According to the build/price thingy on both Mazda's and Nissan's website configured the way I want it there would be ~$18/mo difference in price between the two. Of course that's MSRP on the Spec and I know I could get it for less than that. Where as the MSP would be right at MSRP. I haven't called my agent yet, but I think the MSP might be a little more to insure though as well.

If I choose the Spec-V I would definately go with the 03 Spec, although my Nissan dealer does still have a loaded, red 02 Spec sitting on the lot that I'm sure he's trying to get rid of. Another factor might be that I think if I got the Spec I would order the car and not play around with that dealer trade crap. That way I can be sure when it comes off the truck no one has abused it before hand.

But despite the price difference the MSP still pulls me in with its handling, stereo, and turbo coolness. I just wish they would offer a sunroof!

Ah well, I don't think I'm 99% like you Grimace, but I'm more like 60% MSP/40% Spec-V. I've gotta decide before spring time. :rolleyes:

I'm with Grimace. I was looking at both originally. A year ago; it would have been the SE-R Spec V. I waited; and I am glad I did. I think they are both great cars. I traded my Nissan SE Limited; so I have owned (3) Nissans in the past. Having now owned my MAZDASPEED for almost a month. I know I made the right decision - at least for me. You really have to drive the MAZDASPEED to fully appreciate it. No way to really explain it.

I test drove two SE-R Spec Vs in the past year; and yes I am giving up cruise control, and a moonroof (not to mention - 6 forward gears). But; after I drove the MAZDASPEED, I was hooked! I could have purchased the SE-R Spec V for about $17,000, so you can tell, I must really love the MAZDASPEED!!

I do!!!!!!!

,,,Either way you go, I really think you will be happy!

[AltimaSE]

I better shut up before Lawerence thinks that I'm trying to hi-jack his thread. :( Just seeing that a Spec with those mods can get into the 14s made me start to think again. :) Thanks again guys!

[AGR]

Originally posted by AltimaSE
I better shut up before Lawerence thinks that I'm trying to hi-jack his thread. :( Just seeing that a Spec with those mods can get into the 14s made me start to think again. :) Thanks again guys!

Oh,,,by the way; the 1/4 mile #s are fine, but the MAZDASPEED is much more than 1,320 feet.

There's always the Neon SRT-4 for that! Ha!!!

[Newf]

Having no sunroof is nothing to be concerned about. this is my only car witout one in probably 10-15 years counting my fathers cars as well. I never miss it. No rattles, no squeaks, no coldness from the glass, nothing. i could care less about sunroofs anymore. Just a luxury item really.

Besides, I've heard that in TO, sunroofs are a BAD idea. With the changes in temp all the time, the seals break over time? Don't know if it's BS or not though.

Get the Speed Man!

[AGR]

Originally posted by newf
Having no sunroof is nothing to be concerned about. this is my only car witout one in probably 10-15 years counting my fathers cars as well. I never miss it. No rattles, no squeaks, no coldness from the glass, nothing. i could care less about sunroofs anymore. Just a luxury item really.

Besides, I've heard that in TO, sunroofs are a BAD idea. With the changes in temp all the time, the seals break over time? Don't know if it's BS or not though.

Get the Speed Man!

You said it! Buy the MAZDASPEED - nothing like that Turbo spoolin'!!!

[tritonheat1]

Originally posted by Lawerence
So last friday night my friends and I went to the track!
There were three of us 00' civic Si with I/H/E and some fuel stuff; My old 02' SpecV with nitrous, injen CAI, Custom 2.5' exhaust, new nitto 555's (UR pulley not yet installed); and me...all stock Our friend with the WRX was going to come...but then he remembered he is a pussy and is afraid of the track....anyhow....
We were only there for an hour, and we all got two runs..
First my friend with the civic rav against an auto V6 camaro.
The Si hit a 15.1 @ 92, beatin gthe camaro..only because the other guys reaction times sucked...
His seccond run was against an older lightning needles to say he got whooped, he ran an even slower 15.7@ 90 but he missed 3rd on that run.
My first run was pretty bad
60' 2.416
1/8 9.871
1/4 15.207 @ 91.61

My seccond run was alot better:
60' 2.241
1/8 9.599
1/4 14.907 @ 92.85

My friend in the spec went against an 00' Mustang GT (5spd), and a riced out cavilier.

He ran a 14.117@99.13 against teh cavvy.

and I think (not shure) he is the fastest recorded specV (with a qr25), running a 13.846@99.87, against the mustangs 14.3@9x(dont remember).

So my friend amazed me with his specV times almost made me wish I didnt sell the car. And even though my friend in the civic cant drive, he did better than his first time out (when he was running high 15s). I was very happy, everoyone was telling me that I coulsnt hit 14s stock...well HAHAHA!!!
anyhow it was pretty cool. There was a brand new Vette there than was running mid 13s (hahahaha). And there was a crazy all motor neon that was running 12s on slicks.
Good times



SWEET DUDE/ Lol BTW good job nice run:eek: :eek: (thumb)

[Grimace]

Consider this thread hijacked. :D

AltimaSE - if you like to mod your vehicles, the Spec V is a better vehicle to start with, especially if you think you might like to add a turbo. And I think (but I don't know for sure) that you could get more horsepower out of Nissan's 2.5L than Mazda's 2.0L if you build them up. Even a simple debadging does wonders for the exterior appearance, too. Basically, you could think of it as a clean slate, and personalize it any way you want, especially with the money you save. Just don't go too overboard like some of the cars in "Member's Rides". :p The biggest detriment is the rear suspension. No amount of money can change it to a proper set-up. But it may not be that bad of a detriment depending on your driving style. Read the R&T comparison in the Sept. 2002 issue (I think). The fastest way to get it around a track is to really fling it around, kind of a "bullish" driving style. Truth be told, that is kind of my driving style now, but with the MSP I want to learn how to drive fast AND smoothly. The MSP with its better rear suspension and willingness to have its tail help out in cornering without resorting to large see-saw steering inputs will encourage me to finesse the car more.
Personally, although I have enjoyed customizing cars in the past, you usually end up terribly in the hole when it comes time to sell. And I just don't have the time anymore with my job. If I were to customize a car, it would come out almost exactly like the MSP, and I could never do it for as cheap as Mazda does it, so I consider this a bonus.
Newf has a point with the sunroof. My car's sunroof leaks in the rain, sometimes quite badly. I'm not sure if it has been the harsh winters and wild temperature variations its gone through, but it is a pain in the a$$. It also rattles, and when its open, it provides more wind noise than ventilation. I know it wasn't the best design in the beginning, but I won't go out of my way to purchase a car with a sunroof (and I won't pay extra for one either). There aren't many instances where I will miss it. I'm sure you've read how Nissan cheaped out after the early-2002's and stopped installing a small wind deflector on the leading edge of the sunroof opening, right? You can't open the sunroof more than 80% without severe in-cabin wind buffering due to their cost-savings brilliance. And I don't know about the U.S., but if you want ABS and a folding seat (both important to me), you can only get it as part of a $2900 package that also includes an alarm, the sunroof, and the 300W stereo system. The alarm and the stereo are both nice bonuses, but I'd rather add my own stereo equipment and alarm, and pay $800 for ABS as a stand-alone option.
On the insurance, for me, the Spec V was more than the MSP with my provider, about $150/year more. Go figure. I got a few other quotes, and most other companies the MSP was higher, but not by much, never more than $100-200 annually. Not enough to make-or-break a decision.
Finally, in all seriousness, don't you find the maturity level of this board higher than b15sentra.net? You wouldn't think there would be such a disparity, but there is. Even the guys over there complain that some the posts are seriously immature. And if you try to post a problem to get some solutions, everyone denies any problems exist with the car, and argue down the original poster! Its bizarre. I'm not trying to bash the other board, because there are a lot of guys there that know their stuff, but there are a few that can ruin everything. I guess the low price for performance ratio of the car attracts the kiddies out there who have enough coin to drop on a new car.
Test drive both, preferably in the same day. That is the only way you'll be able to decide. Both are great cars.

[Lawerence]

Thanks guys!
yea i've been to the RSX board, to let em' know that the MSP is every bit as fast as thier type-S ;)

But yea, my MSP is stock. The specV that ran the 13, has a 50shot, intake and exhaust...its my old car (I didnt have the intake or exhuast though).
When I ran the specV the best I could muster was a 15.2 without the nitrous, and as I suspected the MSP is faster (not by much), and the topend is better too ( i trapped almost 3mph faster than in the spec).

They are both really great cars each have thier own qualities. What I really miss from the specV are the seats (awosome support), and the sixth gear. But all in all it was worth the trade:)

[MSpeed]

well i dunno about the price differences in the states but here in canada theyre big. i can get a 03 spec v for $21,000 while the msp costs $27,000. now thats $6 grand before taxes... after it comes out to about $7.5 so a big difference

[tritonheat1]

Originally posted by Lawerence
Thanks guys!
yea i've been to the RSX board, to let em' know that the MSP is every bit as fast as thier type-S ;)

But yea, my MSP is stock. The specV that ran the 13, has a 50shot, intake and exhaust...its my old car (I didnt have the intake or exhuast though).
When I ran the specV the best I could muster was a 15.2 without the nitrous, and as I suspected the MSP is faster (not by much), and the topend is better too ( i trapped almost 3mph faster than in the spec).

They are both really great cars each have thier own qualities. What I really miss from the specV are the seats (awosome support), and the sixth gear. But all in all it was worth the trade:)

Sweet;) and glad to hear that you are enjoying the MSP.

[Lawerence]

Originally posted by Grimace
Consider this thread hijacked. :D

AltimaSE - if you like to mod your vehicles, the Spec V is a better vehicle to start with, especially if you think you might like to add a turbo. And I think (but I don't know for sure) that you could get more horsepower out of Nissan's 2.5L than Mazda's 2.0L if you build them up.
I wouldnt go so far as to say that.
In fact the specV is a pretty hard car to mod. You have the overly sensitive KS, the power draining BS's, and the ever so mysterious oil consumption.

to top it off no one has turbod a specV yet (there is one in the works), but it will only be pushing 220-240whp.

The FS engine lie the QR25 (specV engine) both puke and die around 250whp. Where both engines will need new internals (pistons, rods). Actually I think The MSP will be easier to get to its whp threshhold because it comes with a turbo stock. Right now the aerage modded specV (with i/h/e) only puts down 160-165whp. Which in the MSP should be easily achieved with a turboback exhaust and a downpipe.

Basically both engines are similar in that they cant take more than 250whp reliably without changing the internals.

[Dave_13_2002]

They are not that different price wise....
My '03 Black Mica= $20,995 inc. Tax, tag, and title.( I only had a 1500.00 mark up)
'03 SpecV SER= $20,864.00 inc. Tax tags and title.(fully loaded)
--------------------difference of only....$131.00

Specs wise Also almost Identical

MSP---

2.0L DOHC 16-Valve I4 with Turbocharger and Intercooler
170 hp@ 6000 rpm
160 ft lbs. @ 3500 rpm

SpecV---
2.5-liter DOHC 16-valve 4-cylinder engine
175 hp @ 6,000 rpm
180 lb-ft of torque @ 4,000 rpm

[Lawerence]

Originally posted by Dave_13_2002
They are not that different price wise....
My '03 Black Mica= $20,995 inc. Tax, tag, and title.( I only had a 1500.00 mark up)
'03 SpecV SER= $20,864.00 inc. Tax tags and title.(fully loaded)
--------------------difference of only....$131.00


Well I got my specV (fully loaded except ABS & side impact airbags) for 17,200 +TTL. With the ABS and side airbags it would've been 17,900+ TTL.
Not I got the msp for 20,000 +ttl and they WOULD NOT got any lower. I cant even believe i got it for 500 under MSRP (thanks to dads bargining skills).

With a specV the dealers will go down to invoice (16,800) practially the MSP you will NEVER find for under 20K.

The prices on the net are just guidelines...you have to go to the dealer and DEAL to get the price lowered (which you really cant do on an msp).

[MSpeed]

i dont know why your US prices are so close together... like i said here in canada the difference in price is $6K before taxes

[Dave_13_2002]

The quote I got for the SpecV was from Nissan's website. Then I added in about 800.00 for ttl.

[Lawerence]

Originally posted by Dave_13_2002
The quote I got for the SpecV was from Nissan's website. Then I added in about 800.00 for ttl.
yea I know, all Im saying is that nissan is willing to go down on the price of the specV (I got mine for 17,2) unlike mazda who wont budge on thier prices...

Internet prices are just guidelines not written in stone :)

[Limited Edition]

Lawerence..Good job pulling a 14.9. (thumb)

what was the temperature at the track when you ran that?
What's the best rpm to launch the MSP?
Best shift points?

[Daemos]

Originally posted by Lawerence

I wouldnt go so far as to say that.
In fact the specV is a pretty hard car to mod. You have the overly sensitive KS, the power draining BS's, and the ever so mysterious oil consumption.

to top it off no one has turbod a specV yet (there is one in the works), but it will only be pushing 220-240whp.

The FS engine lie the QR25 (specV engine) both puke and die around 250whp. Where both engines will need new internals (pistons, rods). Actually I think The MSP will be easier to get to its whp threshhold because it comes with a turbo stock. Right now the aerage modded specV (with i/h/e) only puts down 160-165whp. Which in the MSP should be easily achieved with a turboback exhaust and a downpipe.

Basically both engines are similar in that they cant take more than 250whp reliably without changing the internals.

JWT is in the works of a turbo spec v :) (along with a kit :p)
for All motor the spec should be around 220 whp...it'll be expensive...but it'll be reliable.

14.9 is a good time for a MSP, my friend hit 14.8 with new tires...so techincally it's stock...cept for the tires..they're the exact same tires as the MSP tires, he got some, on an 03 spec.

MSP handling is great...but for the price diffence (in canada) I'm buying JIC coilovers :))))

my sunroof has no troubles, nor any paint problems. only some slight rattles (like one...from the front side door)

the knock sensor is easy to take care of, and balance shafts...well those are the problem parts, they rob roughly 10 whp, and like 7-8 ft-lb of torque. And the balance shafts do rape the warrenty good.

[Daemos]

To Altima SE and whoever else is looking for a car.

Oh yea to anyone looking to buy one of these cars, they're both great cars, you can't go wrong with either choice.

If you go with the Spec V get the 2003. Espically in canada, where side impact airbags are an option :)

[mspeedpro]

we need to get britt to go run his car, id love to see what times he got...

[Lawerence]

Originally posted by Daemos


JWT is in the works of a turbo spec v :) (along with a kit :p)
for All motor the spec should be around 220 whp...it'll be expensive...but it'll be reliable.

the knock sensor is easy to take care of, and balance shafts...well those are the problem parts, they rob roughly 10 whp, and like 7-8 ft-lb of torque. And the balance shafts do rape the warrenty good.
actually the JWT kit is going to be pushing 300hp+ :eek:
of course it has forged internals and a slew of other things. But I do believe they are making a 200whp kit also.

The knock sensor might be "easy" to take care of, but after some mods I/H/E/P/BS removal then you have to worry about deronation...which happens on highly modded QRs with the KS mod done. Untill an ECU comes out (it wont be more than 7 months) it wont be completely safe to fully bolt on a QR. But the newer ones (03) with different internals seem to hold up a little better.

Anyway, I on my first launch I was at 4500 rpm and dumped the clutch..hence the horrid 60'

On my last launch I was at 4000rpms and slipped the clutch, but the 60' was okay...I think you can definitely pull some 2.0's with these tires. BUt it was kinda cold (50 degrees) out and grip wasnt the best.

[Daemos]

Originally posted by Lawerence

actually the JWT kit is going to be pushing 300hp+ :eek:
of course it has forged internals and a slew of other things. But I do believe they are making a 200whp kit also.

The knock sensor might be "easy" to take care of, but after some mods I/H/E/P/BS removal then you have to worry about deronation...which happens on highly modded QRs with the KS mod done. Untill an ECU comes out (it wont be more than 7 months) it wont be completely safe to fully bolt on a QR. But the newer ones (03) with different internals seem to hold up a little better.

Anyway, I on my first launch I was at 4500 rpm and dumped the clutch..hence the horrid 60'

On my last launch I was at 4000rpms and slipped the clutch, but the 60' was okay...I think you can definitely pull some 2.0's with these tires. BUt it was kinda cold (50 degrees) out and grip wasnt the best.

O.o; damn launching at 4000rpms, I wish I could do that...I can't even launch at like 2000 rpms without getting mad hop and spin, I usually launch at 1500 rpm :/ but I'm not that good of a driver.

Hopefully with motor mounts I Can launch much higher and pull off some good times.

[AltimaSE]

Well at least the thread finally got back on track (sort of). :)

Thanks for the info guys. There's been posts with the whole Spec-V vs MSP thing on both here and b15, but I think I get better insight here. Both guys are supportive of their cars, but I do find the MSP people on here to be a little more mature.

Hey Grimace, have you ever visited thevboard.com? Maybe it's just me, but the guys over there seem even more like little punks than a few of the ppl on b15 can. Overall I've found both b15 and this board to be GREAT sources of information in helping me make a decision.

I think Grimace said about the best thing I've heard in a while and that is that I'll just have to go and test drive both cars back to back and decide that way. In a way I'm sort of glad I don't have to decide now. This way I'll get the benefit of seeing how both the 03 Spec-Vs and the MSPs hold up as far as engines and other issues.

I'm gonna try and not start another thread on this subject in the future cause there's definately enough out there on both boards. But that doesn't mean I won't welcome any future thoughts and info that you guys (especially Lawerence and Grimace) have in the future about the two cars.

Thanks again guys for all the info.

[Daemos]

Lawrence would probally be a very good source of info, probally better than most people, just because he's owned a spec V and a now a MSP. But the spec v was a 2002.

if I were looking for cars all over again, and if it came down to a spec V it would have to be an 03, because I've driven a few 02s, and the tranny in the 03s were 100 times better, and it felt it had a smoother power flow (maybe just my imagination) and side impact air bags, and a nicer interior, (the 03s also got new pistons, and rods in the engines, japanese ones, not american ones) (I can't find the link right now)

if I had to get a MSP I'd wait for the 2003.5s because there may of been some revisions to improve it. And cuz I love that titanium grey colour.

But in the end it's up to you.

The rest here will be biased towards my personal tastes.

the MSP is a limited run car, and it's probally the best handling FWD car on the market (as with the MSP). And it seems to have better less interior rattles, and a nicer gauge cluster, it's a turbo (even though, IMO if a car is turbo, tne engine and tranny should of atleast been beefed up). The audio system, I really could care less, just because I'm an audiophile, it's better than the stock spec v, but It wouldn't be enough to sway me. It also has a permeter alarm (compared to the Spec's normal alarm). some people have complained about a mysterious "clunk" and slight rattles, and a dead spot in the powerband.

the spec v, had ONE thing that I wanted in a car of my own, and it was a sunroof, once I rode in a car with a sunroof in the summer, I needed one in my car. It also has supposedly better seats, and side impact airbags (not an option on the msp). It also had cruise control (but I've never used that on any car I've owned). It also has the imobilizer key system, and a large engine, which can be boosted (around the same limit as the MSP, for the engine, the tranny is supposedly "impervious" (from SCC)) but it's also good for NA mods (which is something I wanted as well) But it also has things like the over sensitive knock sensor, and the balance shafts which are supposed to "reduce" (they really don't do anything) vibrations. And some people have complained about paint quality(no issues with me), interior rattles (I've only had minor), and a notchy tranny (went away with syns tranny fluid).

In terms of handling I would rate the Spec V maybe the 2nd or 3rd best FWD stock handler on the market.

1/4 speeds they are similar.

price..in the US they are similar with the MSP being 1-2 grand more

in canada...I've been hearing various stories...so I'm assuming it's the MSP slighly more expensive being 1-2 grand more.

in the end it comes to you, and you test driving all the cars.

(PS DON'T settle for a 30 min test drive, or just ONE test drive, when I was shopping around, I went to all the diffrent dealerships I could to get the feel for each car, and which one suiited me the most)

(I also agree with the fact that this board seems more mature, but there are alot fewer members as well, and there are still some immature people on this board)

[Lawerence]

Originally posted by Daemos
Lawrence would probally be a very good source of info, probally better than most people, just because he's owned a spec V and a now a MSP. But the spec v was a 2002.

if I were looking for cars all over again, and if it came down to a spec V it would have to be an 03, because I've driven a few 02s, and the tranny in the 03s were 100 times better, and it felt it had a smoother power flow (maybe just my imagination) and side impact air bags, and a nicer interior, (the 03s also got new pistons, and rods in the engines, japanese ones, not american ones) (I can't find the link right now)

if I had to get a MSP I'd wait for the 2003.5s because there may of been some revisions to improve it. And cuz I love that titanium grey colour.

Agreed. The tranny is much better on the 03's (I do like the older gaer ratios, but the smoothness of the new trany is worth it). And the japanese internals, and ring make the engine more reliable.
And with the 03.5 MSPs hopefully they will have fixed some minor problems (I havent had anything but TWO cluncks in 1200miles).
But in the end it's up to you.

The rest here will be biased towards my personal tastes.

the MSP is a limited run car, and it's probally the best handling FWD car on the market (as with the MSP). And it seems to have better less interior rattles, and a nicer gauge cluster, it's a turbo (even though, IMO if a car is turbo, tne engine and tranny should of atleast been beefed up). The audio system, I really could care less, just because I'm an audiophile, it's better than the stock spec v, but It wouldn't be enough to sway me. It also has a permeter alarm (compared to the Spec's normal alarm). some people have complained about a mysterious "clunk" and slight rattles, and a dead spot in the powerband.
The interior is slightly nicer...but I miss my old red seats :( and the SpecV seats hold you in place MUCH better.


the spec v, had ONE thing that I wanted in a car of my own, and it was a sunroof, once I rode in a car with a sunroof in the summer, I needed one in my car. It also has supposedly better seats, and side impact airbags (not an option on the msp). It also had cruise control (but I've never used that on any car I've owned).
Funny you mentioned the sunroof. I love them, but in the SpecV it took away some headroom and my head was always rubing the roof :)

It also has the imobilizer key system, and a large engine, which can be boosted (around the same limit as the MSP, for the engine, the tranny is supposedly "impervious" (from SCC)) but it's also good for NA mods (which is something I wanted as well) But it also has things like the over sensitive knock sensor, and the balance shafts which are supposed to "reduce" (they really don't do anything) vibrations. And some people have complained about paint quality(no issues with me), interior rattles (I've only had minor), and a notchy tranny (went away with syns tranny fluid).
You might have the KS and BS to worry about. But people think there are no mods for the specv...its worse for the MSP.

In terms of handling I would rate the Spec V maybe the 2nd or 3rd best FWD stock handler on the market.

1/4 speeds they are similar.
I havent driven every FWD car, but the SPecV is definitely up there!

price..in the US they are similar with the MSP being 1-2 grand more

in canada...I've been hearing various stories...so I'm assuming it's the MSP slighly more expensive being 1-2 grand more.

in the end it comes to you, and you test driving all the cars.

(PS DON'T settle for a 30 min test drive, or just ONE test drive, when I was shopping around, I went to all the diffrent dealerships I could to get the feel for each car, and which one suiited me the most)

(I also agree with the fact that this board seems more mature, but there are alot fewer members as well, and there are still some immature people on this board)
agreed.
and agreed about the board, but your right they dont have half as many people as B15...but you have to start somewhere. :)

[Grimace]

Hearing all these reports about the transmission feel being better in the '03 Spec makes me want to take another test drive (I drove an '02). I knew the tranny gear ratios were revised, but I didn't know they improved the shifter feel.

price..in the US they are similar with the MSP being 1-2 grand more

in canada...I've been hearing various stories...so I'm assuming it's the MSP slighly more expensive being 1-2 grand more.



Canada MSRP is $22000 for a Spec V for 2003, $500 more than for 2002. The only option packages is $2900 (!) and includes the sunroof, ABS, upgraded stereo, folding rear seats, side airbags, and alarm. Add that option package and the Spec V is $24900, that is only $2100 less than the MSP. If ABS were a standalone option for $500-800, I would be climbing in a Spec V right now (are you listening Nissan? Enough with the assinine option packaging!)

Hey Grimace, have you ever visited thevboard.com? Maybe it's just me, but the guys over there seem even more like little punks than a few of the ppl on b15 can.

Yeah, I was there for about 10 seconds. :) Its pretty bad. I guess the b15 board ain't too bad in comparison.

[Daemos]

yea, I agree, the 02 gear ratios seem to be alot more powerful, but I feel that the 03 is just slightly faster, like not even .1 faster in the 1/4 mile, but it's just there, probally because the tranny gear ratios, but what makes up for it, is how much faster you can shift in the 03 than in the 02, because it's alot more smooth, I basically just "flick" into the gears, if you watch me drive, it's really wierd, everyone always asks me about the way I shift, I do it because I find it's the fastest possible way for me to shift.

I should get a video up ;) it'll be entertaining according to some people who've been with me driving.

But that doesn't help the fact that I Can't launch at all, I'm terrible, wheel hop and spin everywhere -.-;;

I've driven alot of cars, RSXs, Sirs, Celicas, Prelude SHs, focuses (not SVTs though), tiburons, GTis, Neon (or the R/T SX in canada), etc...but those above are like the performance catagory ones :)

I found even though the Spec V felt a little more unstable than then some of the cars, it could still hold out better at higherspeeds while turning than all those other cars. But the Spec Probally had the worst ride quality out of all of them, and maybe sat the highest off the ground, next to the Civic Sir.

But still a FWD car is still a FWD car, for handling purposes a RWD is the way to go.

hmm...that's REALLY wierd :/ ABS isn't a standalone option...

[Lawerence]

Originally posted by Daemos

I should get a video up ;) it'll be entertaining according to some people who've been with me driving.

But that doesn't help the fact that I Can't launch at all, I'm terrible, wheel hop and spin everywhere -.-;;


The same thing happened to me. Insane wheehop & wheelspin.
Are you dumping the clutch? I used to dump it around 1800-2000rpms.
But I found the bast way to launch it was to keep it around 2200rpms, and slip the clutch out real fast. For me this was good for 2.0' 60fts.

[Yellospeed]

Hi .. new to the board.. was looking between the spec-v and the MSP too... except up here in canada..

The thing is.. its a hella lot cheaper to get the spec V, but the damn thing is built so poorly.. mexico... sigh...

I went to test drive a new 2003 spec and was so dissappointed.. the doors were missaligned, and the paint was mismatching from the factory!

I also notice a few other things.. namely the mirrors that don't fold in and the shifter refused to go into reverse..

but anyways..
here was the price difference on the spec vs msp...
keep in mind.. the specs are negotiable in pricing... the msp aren't. so there's probably an even bigger difference..



Spec V - base $22,000

MSP $27,000
---------------------------------
$5,000

Tax $350-$700
----------------------------------

Minimum diff of $5350 <== over $3750 USD difference!

[Swerny]

I've diven both as well. I'm with Grimace, had the ABS been a single option, i may have gone with the Spec V. the $2900 option kills the car. I would have loved the roof too, as i've never had a car w/o one.
As for the Fosgate Stereo in the Spec V...it sucks...plain and simple. I was spoiled with my Integra as i used to work in a stereo shop, my 'Teg had a better stereo than the MSP does.
Another thing for me was the trunk. I use my MSp as a daily driver, and I ski and Mountain Bike, the apss through in the Nissan, most Nissan's for that matter is tiny. And with the sub in the way, half of it is lost.

I did a brief test drive in the Spec V, like the seats better than the MSP's, which suck. Again the "teg had better seats. I liked the power and the brakes.
I did not like the shifter, the dash, or the interior for that matter. and the trunk/pass through.
I guess its a matter of preference. I think the way to go would be to get the Spec V without the option package. The only big loss would be the ABS.
At $21,000 in Canada, great bang for the buck. You still egt the engine, the 6 spd, LSD, 17's etc.

man i miss my moonroof...and it's still winter !

Just my 2 cents.

MS MSP - Spicy Orange

[Logan]

Originally posted by Yellospeed
the specs are negotiable in pricing... the msp aren't. so there's probably an even bigger difference..
Who says the MSP isn't negotiable?
Everything is negotiable. I ordered mine for somewhere around $1200 (Canadian) less than MSRP including discount on Freight and PDI.
Don't forget the grad rebate if you're eligible. $600!

[Yellospeed]

wow $1200 off?
Around here... they're all presold months ahead of time.

Did you trade in or something?

[slug420]

i love my msp and not to take anything away from it, but the paint on the orange MSPs is mismatched too. Its minor, and can almost be attributed to the different shades and flecks of the paint, but its there. Plastic/fiberglass parts are a different shade slightly than the rest of the car. Due apparently to being different materials, having been painted at different times, and maybe a slightly imperfect pearl coat match...

i still recommend the MSP, only thing i wish it had was a sunroof.....

[Logan]

Originally posted by Yellospeed
wow $1200 off?
Around here... they're all presold months ahead of time.

Did you trade in or something?
Nope, no trade.
I just spent a long time researching and visiting the dealer, showing some interest, but not lots.
There are a few good websites on how to buy a car, I used those.
I'm getting pissed now though, because I just want to know WHEN it's going to get here...