Oh, THAT torque steer

[Cannondale]

This morning, I was on a wet, two-lane road stuck behind two slow cars. Eventually, one moved forward, so I positioned myself to slide through the gap. When the spacing allowed, I punched the gas as I switched lanes. [Insert torque steer here.]

Yeow, that was a surprise. I've read about it, but I'm just getting out of the break-in phase, so I've been really gentle w/ the throttle. Now I know.

[JS + MS3]

lol yeah, that's what i first thought when i first hit the throttle hard while turning.

[Speedkid]

I feel it everytime I do a pull at low speeds.

[DailyDriver]

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[jeebusm3]

I actually don't consider the torque-steer to be that bad. You can feel it, sure, but it's manageable so long as you learn to drive the car like the powerful FWD car that it is. Every type of car takes some getting used to. My miata, for instance, is a very balanced RWD that can literally dance around corners. But if you go into a turn hot and lift abruptly, consider yourself lucky if you don't spin that sucker around. A powerful RWD car, such as an M3 also needs some attention. Change lanes at low speed in the wet while getting on the power (like the OP described) and you won't torque steer BUT the ass end might come out so far, that you crap your pants because it's in the other lane. React wrong and this could get really bad.

AWD might sound like the easiest car to drive, and it certainly is in certain conditions, but depending on the power output and AWD type, it can also be very tricky. Take an STi at low speed, turn sharply and gas it. Some real wheel spin will be detected, power will get sent to the front (possibly abruptly). There's a limited slip diff out front on that car as well as the back. So you won't get one wheel peel, instead each tire will fight for traction and you could be surprised and get your arms ripped out of the socket (not literally).

I guess what I'm saying is, learn the car, drive it based on that learning, and it won't shock you.

[DailyDriver]

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[coololddude]

"It is not wise to take a nap AND hammer the gas pedal in a MS3"....Confusius

[Aetherfury]

I actually like it. I know most people don't, but after driving a lot of RWD cars, it's kind of fun. It feels like the car actually has a beast in there trying to wrestle the car away from you and it gives it personality.

With that said, I have also had moments where I was pulling around slow traffic to get in a turn lane at slow speeds and punch it in 1st with DSC off and WHEEEEEEE

[jeebusm3]

@DailyDriver...that's precisely what I was getting at. Any car with the MS3's level of thrust can startle you, depending on suspension config, drive-wheel setup, and differential type; that startle could result from a number of different things.

You might not be able to go into a corner as hot in an MS3 vs a Vette, but corner exit is a different story. I personally find, pre-corner lift, mid-corner neutral, corner-exit power works quite well with this car. My BMWs were more power, neutral, neutral, then power. Miata is neutral, neutral, power.

[DailyDriver]

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[JamesCH]

I actually like it. I know most people don't, but after driving a lot of RWD cars, it's kind of fun. It feels like the car actually has a beast in there trying to wrestle the car away from you and it gives it personality.

Haha, that's half the reason I bought mine!

[tiagotiago]

I don't care HOW good of a driver you are, you will make an error at some point... and DSC etc could save your butt. It's saved me a few times... not because I did something blatantly stupid, but because maybe I was a little tired or distracted, and instead of performing 100% to correct a hairy driving situation, I only performed 75%

Very well put! I think exactly along these same lines; and DSC saved my ass in a big way once too, precisely by being distracted and not assessing a situation correctly (took a corner at a good speed for dry conditions without noticing there was a sheet of water just past the corner's entry).

That said, DSC and any other nanny will never mean you have to not pay any attention and let the car drive (or at least it shoudn't)

Back on topic, I also enjoy this car's torque steer because it's never seemed to me as extreme as some people put it, this car requieres it's own style and finesse when driving fast; and to be able to do that is very rewarding.

[Vater]

Change lanes at low speed in the wet while getting on the power (like the OP described) and you won't torque steer BUT the ass end might come out so far, that you crap your pants because it's in the other lane. React wrong and this could get really bad.
Holy cow, did you witness me totaling my Miata back in June? ;) Seriously, you just described exactly what happened. I waited for a gap between the car in front of me and the car to the left of me, and I punched it a bit too much while barely turning left to change lanes. Ass end got loose and I hydoplaned into a construction barrier on the left shoulder. The combination of wet road and worn tires made my immediate reaction to lift off the gas and steer hard right useless...until I hit said barrier and then got traction, which resulted in my car pulling a 180 out into traffic.

I didn't quite know how badly my tires were worn until after I went to the salvage lot and removed the wheels. They looked like racing slicks...my own stupidity for not periodically checking them, a mistake I will never make again.

Arg. Back on topic, I don't find the torque steer that bad. It took me by surprise when I first got the car, but now I'm quite used to it. I've found it a little annoying the last couple days since it's been constantly raining, however. The DSC warning light has been going crazy every time I get on the throttle from a stop.

[jeebusm3]

That's why there's DSC.... why turn it off?


DSC in most cars now has gotten pretty good and not overly intrusive on fun driving. The first car I had with any traction-based system was my 98 M3. It was intrusive and annoying. When it kicked in, it felt like the car was getting pulled down by some weird, artificial source. I felt safer with it off.

In the MS3, the system is pretty darn good. It doesn't bother me to leave it on during daily driving. I do tend to turn it off when I'm really in the mood to romp on it, in a good twisty section, during a warm dry day. It's rarely intrusive, but if there are circumstances where it's more fun and faster to have it off.

But having a car without any electronic nannies is also really fun. My miata has no traction/stability control, not even ABS. It's all about what YOU do.


Holy cow, did you witness me totaling my Miata back in June? ;) Seriously, you just described exactly what happened. I waited for a gap between the car in front of me and the car to the left of me, and I punched it a bit too much while barely turning left to change lanes. Ass end got loose and I hydoplaned into a construction barrier on the left shoulder. The combination of wet road and worn tires made my immediate reaction to lift off the gas and steer hard right useless...until I hit said barrier and then got traction, which resulted in my car pulling a 180 out into traffic.

I didn't quite know how badly my tires were worn until after I went to the salvage lot and removed the wheels. They looked like racing slicks...my own stupidity for not periodically checking them, a mistake I will never make again.

Arg. Back on topic, I don't find the torque steer that bad. It took me by surprise when I first got the car, but now I'm quite used to it. I've found it a little annoying the last couple days since it's been constantly raining, however. The DSC warning light has been going crazy every time I get on the throttle from a stop.

ouch, sucks about your miata. Obviously I didn't witness it but it does prove my point even more (not that anyone was trying to discredit it anyway).

I have yet to drive the MS3 in rain. Living in San Diego we don't have much wet stuff, no cold stuff, and never anything frozen. I can imagine the car is constantly battling with DSC for traction though. All that torque + FWD = LOLz in rain. It's probably downright scary on ice if you let yourself get into boost.

[DailyDriver]

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[Saskatchewan17]

That's a high powered FWD car for ya. I don't find the torque steer all that bad... it's worth the trade off for the awesome amount of pull you get in gears 3 and up.

[Stavesacre21]

The only time that it's "blatantly" noticable for me would be when i'm flooring it around a corner. That's it. It's always there and even in a straight line, you can feel the "lightness" of the wheel, allowing it to tug any which way if you even move it a hair.

However, to me it's not really uncontrollable. It's very predictable once you get used it it, and you know whereabouts it's going to kick in.

Will it ever feel like a RWD? Never...ever. It doesn't try to be one. However, for a FWD with this much power, its actually impressive what they've done with it so far.

If you truely, honestly didn't ever want to experience TQ steer, a FWD car was the wrong choice from the get-go. It'll never feel like a RWD under load.

[ruthless013]

coming out of a civic (minor torque steer, just no torque) the MS3 is a bit of a handful at certain times, like at low speeds while turning. throttle modulation and a firm grip is key.

i'm only at 500 or so miles, and am beginning to experiment a little. aggressive starts w/o dsc = wheelspin. dsc does a nice job of reigning in traction and getting you going. otherwise, its' threshold is pretty high, and if it's coming on, you'd probably be in trouble if you were driving without it.

will be curious to see which is faster on an autocross course. come on spring.

[JamesCH]

The torque steer isn't bad compared to other similarly-powered FWD cars with no DSC, like a 1998 Volvo S80. 268hp and 280lb-ft of torque with zero torque steer management that I could see/feel. Punching it a moderately off the line would yank the wheel REALLY hard some times. Again, I think the torque steer is fun.

[Cannondale]

For me, the jury is out on whether the torque steer is going to be a PITA or not. If Stavesacre21 is right and it's predictable, then it should be fine. In any case, so far, I'm loving this car.

[kwsmithphoto]

FWIW, I've found with my 09 that torque steer is mostly a function on the surface you're driving on.

For example, Cal Motor Speedway has an absolutely smooth surface with no major camber changes where you'd be applying power, so there's absolutely no torque steer at full power in any gear. None. Wheelspin yes, torque steer, nope.

Then again, on our lumpy public roads, it can be a problem. I don't mind so much when the wheel tugs you in a different direction, but I don't like it when there's no movement or feedback at the steering wheel but the car suddenly decides on a new direction to go in. Not cool, but not common.

But overall, it's really a non problem. After a year, I generally drive with DSC off, and wish there was a way to un-limit the power in first and second. I prefer to drive my car myself, thank you.

The one good thing about the electronic nannies is that they will help you prevent shredding the drivetrain. For example, with DSC off, and too much power on a bumpy road, you can get a lot of wheelspin and wheel hop, which is not at all good for the drivetrain. But I'm a pretty experienced driver and can do that myself.

You can still have a lot of fun with the DSC on, it's fairly loose, but as you get used to the car it gets even more fun with it switched off, forcing you to be more involved with your driving.

Good tires and a better suspension tune help, for sure. DSC has absolutely no idea what to do when the garbage rear dampers toss the rear end into the air on a serious mid-corner dip, for example. Better dampers help, of course, and should be the first change anybody does to their pre-2010 MS3 (haven't driven the 2010 but I've heard it's a lot better). They actually downgraded the tires though, but there's plenty of better alternatives at an affordable price.

Still, it's a good learning tool, and when the light blinks and the engine power cuts, it tells you something about it's inherent limitations. But when you switch of the training wheels, it's a more fun car to drive quickly, IMO. Just be careful. These cars can bite back!

[Newf]

torque steer??? what's that?
joking of course

I had enough of it after the MSP. Throw in all of the preludes/accords/civics I had before that and I was sick of fighting with it. Not so much summer driving for me, but Winter really ticked me off.

I didn't find the new MS3 "that bad", but again "I only drove it for a test drive so I perhaps didn't get a honest trial of real life use. Mazda needs to grow a set and just release an AWD speed again.

AWD for me from now on. Even with DSC off, no torque steer. No AWD, no sale, no joke either. Winters up here almost demand it.