Do you down shift while daily driving?

[thecavemankevin]

Just curious if anyone else out there down shifts while doing their daily driving. I've gotten into the habit of doing it while driving and slowing to a stop.

Just simply curious if anyone else does this on a regular basis and if it is bad for my baby.

[cymx5]

Yes. Always. No it's wonderful for your baby if you rev-match. If you just ride the clutch down to the next gear...then yes it is bad for your baby.

[Wagonbacker9]

my dad and I both engine braked on the car I learned stick on. it made it to 188K miles with no more engine service than filters, oil, plugs, and wires.. we sold it with the OEM clutch in it.

[MikeLikesMazda]

i do when theres no one right behind me. the last thing i want is for someone to be on a cell phone and not notice im slowing down

[Wagonbacker9]

i've done it on purpose when someone is riding my ass. lol

[hugador]

i've done it on purpose when someone is riding my ass. lol

or you could just use the brakes. Are you looking for an accident to happen lol.

I down shift every day but not when coming to a stop.

[Wagonbacker9]

engine braking doesn't slow you fast enough to cause be that risky... if it did, its their fault anyway.

also, never engine brake with 1st gear...

[hugador]

engine braking doesn't slow you fast enough to cause be that risky... if it did, its their fault anyway.

also, never engine brake with 1st gear...

yeah I never liked to engine brake with my ms3

[Wagonbacker9]

I down shift every day but not when coming to a stop.


yeah I never liked to engine brake with my ms3

you downshift but do not engine brake? I'm confused.

[hugador]

you downshift but do not engine brake? I'm confused.

like when turning on a tight corner i'll slow down using the brakes then i'll down shift to a lower gear most often 2nd gear stuff like that

or if there is a bump on the road where i'll have to slow down. Again brake then down shift to the right gear to accelerate from. Capish lol

[EGTT91]

I revmatch and downshift EVERY TIME! Even getting off the highway, revmatch every downshift down to 2nd then just brake to a stop.

[PCspeed3]

brake pads cost much less than a new clutch/transmission, I downshift every once in awhile just for the fun of it.

[Keno1542]

brake pads cost much less than a new clutch/transmission, I downshift every once in awhile just for the fun of it.

yep, this is how i look at it too.

[xDJ DUBx]

I never downshift, I'd rather replace brakes.

I need to learn how to properly do it though if I'm going really fast, and need to stop really fast cause brakes alone don't do the trick.

[SallySpeed3]

I don't understand why you wouldn't downshift when approaching a red light from a distance or coming to any stop when you have time to prepare. My dads old mustang gt didn't need new brake pads until like 90k miles because we always downshifted and hardly ever used the brakes unless it was necessary. If you do it correctly it will also always leave you in a good rpm range to floor it once the light turns green, then you can fly by all the idiots who sped up to the red light and slammed on their brakes.

[bazooka joe]

you guys realy think you're wearing out the tranny by down shifting to a stop...?

[RUMBLEFISH]

you guys realy think you're wearing out the tranny by down shifting to a stop...?

I think maybe they are talking about the motor and tranny combo. This is my 5 standard car in 35 years of driving and this one has 40000 miles since last May. I have never had to install a clutch in any car I have owned and some have had 150 thousand plus miles. Downshifting and using the engine instead of brakes will infact put more stress on the internals. Its not like they are going to blow up or anything but they are working harder then a car costing to a stop.
If it dosnt matter why dont they make automatics downshift as you come to a stop?

But understand one thing > I dont really care what you do with your car so if you want to drive it like an indy car be my guest.

[cymx5]

I've done it on every vehicle I have owned. The only clutch that has been replaced was on the last Miata I drove. That car got stuck when the slave cylinder went out. My ignorant father decided his friend would rather tow it and replace the clutch for $500 than rebuild the slave for $15.

[bazooka joe]

well, i've downshifted a "long, long" time with many different cars and trucks...never had a problem or premature wear...i don't drive like an indy car driver either(dunno)

[ChrisG]

My MS3 is the 8th manual trans car I've owned in 25 years of driving, properly rev-matching downshifts, and I've never had an issue with premature tranny or clutch wear. I can't imagine having a manual trans and not using it that way.

Today's electronically-controlled automatics downshift as you slow down, for sure. My wife's Saab 9-3 certainly does.

[25FConv]

well, i've downshifted a "long, long" time with many different cars and trucks...never had a problem or premature wear...i don't drive like an indy car driver either(dunno)

+1 I have have about 6 or 7 manual cars and trucks.....I downshift all the time never had any issues with premature wear never had any tranny issues......I don't drive like an indy racer but I do some enthused driving on occasion around the curves or on some tracks. in the area.

[Aaron23]

I don't understand why you wouldn't downshift when approaching a red light from a distance or coming to any stop when you have time to prepare. My dads old mustang gt didn't need new brake pads until like 90k miles because we always downshifted and hardly ever used the brakes unless it was necessary. If you do it correctly it will also always leave you in a good rpm range to floor it once the light turns green, then you can fly by all the idiots who sped up to the red light and slammed on their brakes.

Right on brother, Exactly what I do and all my friends look at me like WTF until i leave their dumbasses back at the light.

[HondaEat-R]

Brake pads are a lot cheaper than clutch kits. Just use your brakes, why would you downshift every gear to slow down ? It's ricey

[cymx5]

Hell, even Indy racer's don't have the transmission problems referred to in this post. They have engine problems.

[eg6motion]

If I am driving spirited = yes
If I am driving normally = no

No point in it if you are just driving, just wasted energy. Especially if you are downshifting through all the gears... then you just look like a tool.

[Wagonbacker9]

Brake pads are a lot cheaper than clutch kits. Just use your brakes, why would you downshift every gear to slow down ? It's ricey

if you're spinning it up to redline and being agressive on the clutch, then yeah, I would agree, but using the engine to slow the car down over an eigth mile coming into a stoplight instead of waiting til the last 200'.... I would argue is anything but rice, its efficient driving.

[25FConv]

if you're spinning it up to redline and being agressive on the clutch, then yeah, I would agree, but using the engine to slow the car down over an eigth mile coming into a stoplight instead of waiting til the last 200'.... I would argue is anything but rice, its efficient driving.

+1. Not Ricey........I concur with it being efficient.

[MikeHTally]

Many downshifts on many cars over many years. The only clutch work was on a 'yota pickup needing a slave cylinder at 80K or so.

[s-retire]

If it dosnt matter why dont they make automatics downshift as you come to a stop?

They do! Alison automatic transmissions can be programmed to downshift through the gears all the way down to 2nd gear as the RPM limit comes into range.

The French GM A5S 390R in my roadster will down shift in sport mode or can be easily downshifted with a quick pull on the stick. It is a great performance option. I suspect you'll see more of this as time goes on.

[bazooka joe]

ha, i down shift my auto tranny as well...have for 8 yrs! 140k, no issues

[wardgillette]

If you KNOW you are going to have to slow down, get off the gas and coast.

If traffic is kind of slowing down, down shift into the proper gear.

If you are going down a long grade, shift into the gear that keeps you at an appropriate speed.

If you don't want the guy behind you to see you braking, downshift.

If you want to haul ass through every corner, downshift before and accelerate out.

Brakes are cheaper than engines.

[HondaEat-R]

Every single time you push the clutch in and engage or disengage, you're putting wear on the throw-out bearing, clutch safety switch, and clutch disc. If you downshift almost every gear during regular driving, you're using the clutch that much more...simple huh ? I'm not saying it's going to outright ruin your car or drivetrain, however I am saying that for the average person, Downshifting is not needed 99% of the time.



Rev Match downshifting is quite a different story, due to the fact that it will put much less stress / wear on the syncros, and the engagement of the clutch disc to flywheel will be much smoother than a typical downshift. Even still, what's the point, so everyone can hear what your exhaust sounds like in each gear ? You downshift when driving in a spirited fashion, or snowy weather, or to maintain a desireable speed downhill, AKA when it is needed (like Apexing and tracking out of corners), not slowing down to traffic lights, that's just silly, really....


I'll reiterate that downshifting won't ruin your car and you likely won't even notice the wear for a long time, BUT if you don't Rev-Match properly, it IS putting undue stresses on drivetrain parts. Whether or not you notice the wear isn't really the arguement. I literally just called one of my old SR20 buddies, whom currently is a Mechanic at Skip Barber Racing School, and he insists that downshifting should only be done when needed, and not just to slow down, IE a situation where brakes will suffice.

[Wagonbacker9]

lol my 59 year old dad is apparently "young". I'm sure he'd appreciate that.

[HondaEat-R]

I didn't say that only young people Downshift, if you were paying attention you'd read that I did say "A lot of the younger car guys I know downshift constantly and when not needed"

I like how people argue things on the forum that are factual, not opinions. One more time for everyone.... IF YOU DON'T REV-MATCH PROPERLY, YOU WILL PUT EXCESS WEAR ON THE CLUTCH AND SYNCROS when down-shifting. This is not debatable. Whether or not you care is a totally different ball game.

[Wagonbacker9]

relax man, I'm just goofin around with you! so serious in the MS3 section....

[HondaEat-R]

Hahaha, I'm trying to relax man, sorry. I'm trying not to be a dick, but it's tough when people ignore facts, and instead substitute opinion.

Take this into consideration: I just got finished listening to a guy at work tell me that "Global Warming" is fake, and that Humans and our "industries" don't in any way adversely affect the Environment. He was dead serious too, it was painful. That's why I'm so pumped up, hahah, god damn it.

[funksilver07]

OMG, you have to be kidding right? You drive a stick and don't want to downshift? Downshift for christ sake, or just buy a car with an automatic tranny and be done with it.
WOW....

[Wojtek]

I downshift all my life. no problems. saves gas and brakes

[HondaEat-R]

OMG, you have to be kidding right? You drive a stick and don't want to downshift? Downshift for christ sake, or just buy a car with an automatic tranny and be done with it.
WOW....


Thanks for the tip, but I'll keep down shifting for when I'm driving some twisties, not approaching traffic lights.

[HondaEat-R]

I downshift all my life. no problems. saves gas and brakes

It's pretty awesome that you save brakes ($30), and instead use your clutch ($300).

[714ms3]

Hahaha, I'm trying to relax man, sorry. I'm trying not to be a dick, but it's tough when people ignore facts, and instead substitute opinion.

Take this into consideration: I just got finished listening to a guy at work tell me that "Global Warming" is fake, and that Humans and our "industries" don't in any way adversely affect the Environment. He was dead serious too, it was painful. That's why I'm so pumped up, hahah, god damn it.

Speaking of global warming, toyota has helped to develop/gen. engineer a flower that will actually consume harmful greenhouse gasses. Pretty badass eh?

[cymx5]

Ignoring global warming is similar to buying a hybrid car and ignoring the greater amount of energy used to build that car and dispose of it after it's lifetime than it will ever save in the near future.

[bazooka joe]

thread jack - couldn't resist
interesting...no it's not on the detrimental effects of down shifting!
http://forums.motortrend.com/70/7936953/the-drive-in/cows-vs-cars-greenhouse-gasses-lets-tax-cattle-nex/index.html

has anyone every witnessed the aftermath of down shifting you car? i mean can anyone say, oh your clutch burned out (prematurely) due to down shifting? or you engine is now burning 2 quarts of oil every 3000 miles because you down shifted regularly?

[iracer7]

I downshift all my life. no problems. saves gas and brakes
How do you save gas? If your in neutral you're around 1,000 rpms while if you downshift you'll be at higher rpms.

[thecavemankevin]

How do you save gas? If your in neutral you're around 1,000 rpms while if you downshift you'll be at higher rpms.

i agree, i think it would actually consume a bit more gas keeping the engine in higher RPM range more often then at neutral

[Wagonbacker9]

How do you save gas? If your in neutral you're around 1,000 rpms while if you downshift you'll be at higher rpms.


i agree, i think it would actually consume a bit more gas keeping the engine in higher RPM range more often then at neutral

it encourages you to decelerate sooner, and drive more conservatively than if you maintained your speed longer, consuming more gas. Also, downshifting, even at higher RPM consumes MINIMALLY more fuel than idle, as the engine is under high vacuum and essentially just putting in enough gas to keep the engine turning either way.

[Aaron23]

it encourages you to decelerate sooner, and drive more conservatively than if you maintained your speed longer, consuming more gas. Also, downshifting, even at higher RPM consumes MINIMALLY more fuel than idle, as the engine is under high vacuum and essentially just putting in enough gas to keep the engine turning either way.

Exactly what I was going to say. It's proven you consume more fuel when you accelerate from a stop and making abrupt stops, so why not slow down by rev-matching. I.E. EPA's are always higher on the interstate versus city. Just make sure you know how to do it properly.

[noobinacan]

blip- downshift all the time.
helps stay off the brakes...(alright)

[Wojtek]

It's pretty awesome that you save brakes ($30), and instead use your clutch ($300).
clutch worked perfect and never had to replace it on any of the cars I've driven

[Wagonbacker9]

Exactly what I was going to say. It's proven you consume more fuel when you accelerate from a stop and making abrupt stops, so why not slow down by rev-matching. I.E. EPA's are always higher on the interstate versus city. Just make sure you know how to do it properly.
right, plus if you've slowed down earlier into a light, instead of rolling from a stop (first gear), you can continue in 2nd gear or higher... eliminating the need to slip the clutch, potentially INCREASING clutch life...

short term loss, long term gain.

[mazdaspeedster3]

These threads are always funny. First of all down shifting cuts fuel all together. Compression is turning the motor, not gas/spark. You will burn far less fuel downshifting than you will idling. Think about when you push start a car or motorcycle. When the clutch is engaged the engine has no choice but to turn.

Obviously there is more wear on the car if not done properly. However, if done correctly the damage is minimal if at all and for a lot breaking driving habits is harder than trying to quit smoking...

[derspi]

Speaking of global warming, toyota has helped to develop/gen. engineer a flower that will actually consume harmful greenhouse gasses. Pretty badass eh?

Uh, if mother nature could sue Toyota, it would because plants & trees already do that.

But to stay on topic...I can't believe so many ppl bother to downshift when coming to a stop. Engine braking is useful but only in certain situations - coming to a slow stop at a red light in the city isn't one of them.

And I'm sorry but to those that actually downshift an auto, that's just really gay.

[8.5MS3]

These threads are always funny. First of all down shifting cuts fuel all together. Compression is turning the motor, not gas/spark. You will burn far less fuel downshifting than you will idling. Think about when you push start a car or motorcycle. When the clutch is engaged the engine has no choice but to turn.

+10000000, my injector duty cycle is 0 when engine braking over 1500rpm. hence 0 fuel usage

[coololddude]

Always have, Always will.

[Wagonbacker9]

+10000000, my injector duty cycle is 0 when engine braking over 1500rpm. hence 0 fuel usage

my bet is thats DISI specific... dashhawk ftw... very jealous.

[8.5MS3]

my bet is thats DISI specific... dashhawk ftw... very jealous.

iirc hondas and toyota do it as well, may not be. worth checking tho

found this:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/08q4/gas_pains_mileage_myths_and_misconceptions-feature/when_coasting_to_a_stop_2c_do_not_shift_into_neutr al_page_3

[coyfish]

Depends on the situation really but ive made it a habit to downshift a little. Usually Ill downshift down to 3rd and then ill just coast in / clutch / brake. I do it to keep the brake dust off my wheels lol and hear my exhaust drone :).

[zx2man]

Some rather interesting comments. I think it just boils down to common sence..In my honest opinion..I dont thint either has a huge advantage of the other interms of using your brakes are downshift. I myself tend to just pop her in neutral and just coast to a stop. Nofor instance Im on the freeway comming to my exit where I live..Well right before i will ease off the gas and slow down and down shift to 5th..then 4th..but when ive gotten down to say 30 mph and I still got 200 feet to stop I just push in the clutch and coast to the stop while being gentle on the brakes...So I guess my driving style is a mixture of both..Its just a matter of where im driving..whats the traffic and rate of speed and is there gonna be alot of stop and go or is it freeway or country road driving..and then I will decide on those conditions on how many times I will rev match and use the brakes..to me its just driving and I honestly dont think about it.

[HondaEat-R]

I do it to keep the brake dust off my wheels lol and hear my exhaust drone .



Exactly my point. I knew someone would come out and just say it. Ricey

[coyfish]

Exactly my point. I knew someone would come out and just say it. Ricey

Wish there was a word to describe the morons who go around screaming rice left and right.

[HondaEat-R]

Do I really need to quote you again ? ? You just said some ricey type crap, it's not my fault you said it.

You know what keeps brake dust off of rims ?... Water, as in like, a Car Wash...

Keep on down-shifting "to hear your exhaust drone", that's so awesome. It sucks that you have to have other peoples attention to feel good about yourself. You should watch the most recent episode of South Park, you'll know why if you watch it :)

I'll never get sick of people saying that they use their clutch to lessen the wear on their brakes, it'll always be hilarious to hear that.

[xDJ DUBx]

Someone piss in your face or something? wtf. Calm down killer.

How in anyway is liking the tone of your exhaust ricey? Thats half the reason you buy the shit is cause you like how it sounds right?

You're ricey cause you want to push 15psi to be faster than most, it sucks that you have to have other peoples attention to feel good about yourself.

Yeah, sounds stupid right? (unamused)

[zx2man]

well Maybe coyfish just wants to hear his exhaust cause he himself enjoys it..as for the brake dust I just wash my car..and different people will have different driving styles..so it is what it is. Interms of hearing the term rice or ricey all the time..yeah it gets old..and if I recieved a nickle everytime someone said that in the carworld..prabaly would have a good size chunk of dough..though alot of us are guilty of saying it once or twice.

[Saskatchewan17]

Keep it on topic guys. That's enough insulting each other.

Anywho. I would downshift more, but I suck balls at heel toe-ing.

[carbosam]

No I dont most of the time...useless waster of energy...

[xDJ DUBx]

Keep it on topic guys. That's enough insulting each other.

Anywho. I would downshift more, but I suck balls at heel toe-ing.

You don't have to heel-toe to downshift on public streets to rev match, just tap the gas for a half second while in neutral before going into gear.

[Saskatchewan17]

You don't have to heel-toe to downshift on public streets to rev match, just tap the gas for a half second while in neutral before going into gear.

I mean while braking... I rev-match down shift all the time when I want to pass someone or am coming up on congested traffic. But when braking for a corner, when you have to heel toe, I just wait till I'm through the corner, or downshift way before I have to start braking.

[artanis]

Brake pads are a lot cheaper than clutch kits. Just use your brakes, why would you downshift every gear to slow down ? It's ricey

(squinty)

To reiterate what others have already posted:

1. if you rev-match properly there is absolutely no wear on the clutch
2. it saves gas

[cymx5]

Brake pads are a lot cheaper than clutch kits. Just use your brakes, why would you downshift every gear to slow down ? It's ricey(squinty)

To reiterate what others have already posted:

1. if you rev-match properly there is absolutely no wear on the clutch
2. it saves gas

In addition, the folks who drive properly and rev match to downshift aren't thinking "omg, what will the other drivers think of me downshifting?" They are thinking, "I'm going to slow my car down and be in gear to accelerate as needed for my current speed." If someone thinks I'm trying to race them by downshifting, they're a fucking idiot.

As a Mazdaspeed3 note...haven't we seen enough folks blow engines by trying to accelerate in 5th and 6th gear at low revs? ....your thought is 'Save a clutch, blow an engine' HondaEat-R?

[Sport6]

In addition, the folks who drive properly and rev match to downshift aren't thinking "omg, what will the other drivers think of me downshifting?" They are thinking, "I'm going to slow my car down and be in gear to accelerate as needed for my current speed." If someone thinks I'm trying to race them by downshifting, they're a fucking idiot.

As a Mazdaspeed3 note...haven't we seen enough folks blow engines by trying to accelerate in 5th and 6th gear at low revs? ....your thought is 'Save a clutch, blow an engine' HondaEat-R?

Haven't heard too many blow from trying to accelerate in 6th (especially not 5th) but its not good and could lead to detonation which could lead to failure down the road if it happens too often.

But to go with the thread, downshift when I stop, also when I come to hills and see the loads go over 50% (Dashhawk)

[JDM-P5]

I down shift all the time in the miata....I do it mostly when I want to spool the turbo up quickly or slow down to a stop without killing my brakes.

[HondaEat-R]

In addition, the folks who drive properly and rev match to downshift aren't thinking "omg, what will the other drivers think of me downshifting?" They are thinking, "I'm going to slow my car down and be in gear to accelerate as needed for my current speed." If someone thinks I'm trying to race them by downshifting, they're a fucking idiot.

As a Mazdaspeed3 note...haven't we seen enough folks blow engines by trying to accelerate in 5th and 6th gear at low revs? ....your thought is 'Save a clutch, blow an engine' HondaEat-R?


A motor is crap if it's blowing from trying to accelerate in 5th / 6th @ low RPM. Obviously you would downshift in a certain situation. I' am saying that it's silly to downshift every gear when just driving in daily "stop and go" traffic, there's no point. I also already noted that IF you rev-match perfectly, there is no wear on the clutch and syncros. I'm kind of skeptical that most people properly rev match, even though it's simple.

It was / is funny that the one guy here said he downshifts so he can hear his exhaust drone, which is well, pretty stupid.

[HondaEat-R]

In addition, the folks who drive properly and rev match to downshift aren't thinking "omg, what will the other drivers think of me downshifting?" They are thinking, "I'm going to slow my car down and be in gear to accelerate as needed for my current speed." If someone thinks I'm trying to race them by downshifting, they're a fucking idiot.

As a Mazdaspeed3 note...haven't we seen enough folks blow engines by trying to accelerate in 5th and 6th gear at low revs? ....your thought is 'Save a clutch, blow an engine' HondaEat-R?


Obviously you would downshift in a certain situation. I' am saying that it's silly to downshift every gear when just driving in daily "stop and go" traffic, there's no point. I also already noted that IF you rev-match perfectly, there is no wear on the clutch and syncros. I'm kind of skeptical that most people properly rev match, even though it's simple.

It was / is funny that the one guy here said he downshifts so he can hear his exhaust drone, which is well, pretty stupid.

[HondaEat-R]

In addition, the folks who drive properly and rev match to downshift aren't thinking "omg, what will the other drivers think of me downshifting?" They are thinking, "I'm going to slow my car down and be in gear to accelerate as needed for my current speed." If someone thinks I'm trying to race them by downshifting, they're a fucking idiot.

As a Mazdaspeed3 note...haven't we seen enough folks blow engines by trying to accelerate in 5th and 6th gear at low revs? ....your thought is 'Save a clutch, blow an engine' HondaEat-R?


Obviously you would downshift in a certain situation. I' am saying that it's silly to downshift every gear when just driving in daily "stop and go" traffic, there's no point. I also already noted that IF you rev-match perfectly, there is no wear on the clutch and syncros. I'm kind of skeptical that most people properly rev match, even though it's simple.

It was / is funny that the one guy here said he downshifts so he can hear his exhaust drone, which is well, pretty stupid.

[xDJ DUBx]

Triple post ftl

[coyfish]

A motor is crap if it's blowing from trying to accelerate in 5th / 6th @ low RPM. Obviously you would downshift in a certain situation. I' am saying that it's silly to downshift every gear when just driving in daily "stop and go" traffic, there's no point. I also already noted that IF you rev-match perfectly, there is no wear on the clutch and syncros. I'm kind of skeptical that most people properly rev match, even though it's simple.

It was / is funny that the one guy here said he downshifts so he can hear his exhaust drone, which is well, pretty stupid.

Sigh . . . are you really that immature ?? Taking what I said out of context.

I think the concensus is clear in this thread. People downshift as needed. It obviously changes in situations. I don't think anyone downshifts under 3rd gear. Causes no wear on the clutch when you rev match properly.

Honestly this is all a bunch of semantics. Even if you brake all the time brakes are cheap. Either way your fine. Your not doing damage.


Do what you wan't with your car but drop the insults. First im a ricer and now your calling me stupid. If liking my exhaust (which is why anyone buys a catback exhaust in the first place) makes me a ricer then so be it. I could care less and I hate "rice." IF someone wants a 10 foot wing on their car then thats fine. I like it because it makes me laugh. I don't critisize others though. ITs not like I said I was hitting the rev limiter in neighborhoods / at red lights.

[8.5MS3]

I NEVER DOWNSHIFT. once im in 6th it stays there. even if i stop at a red light. downshifting is BAD. Start in 6th, so much better for the car(yupnope)

[bazooka joe]

i downshifted way before the term ricer was in vogue....?(shrug)

[xDJ DUBx]

i downshifted way before the term ricer was in vogue....?(shrug)

.........ricer

(evil)

[mazdaspeedster3]

This is going to date me but I took drivers education in a manual car. A horizon to be exact. We were told to never go into neutral. It negated your ability to maneuver the car in an emergency if the situation arose. I could see that being a valid point as I have almost been rearended before and because I was able to just eccelerate and get into another lane I avoided the tragedy and the car that was in front of me got hit.

[Wagonbacker9]

This is going to date me but I took drivers education in a manual car. A horizon to be exact. We were told to never go into neutral. It negated your ability to maneuver the car in an emergency if the situation arose. I could see that being a valid point as I have almost been rearended before and because I was able to just eccelerate and get into another lane I avoided the tragedy and the car that was in front of me got hit.

thank you for the unrelated anecdote?(cabpatch)

This thread is a disaster.

[mazdaspeedster3]

Unrelated? There are more than 10 posts about people not downshifting and just putting the car in neutral to the stop.

[PATMAN65]

I'm not 100% sure what you guys mean by "revmatch' but I figure you mean 'easing' the clutch out on a downshift, so theres no hard bump when the lower gear is selected. If so, then I do this all the time as well . fun.!
However, I have wondered if it does throw wear and tear on the clutch. I'd rather replace brake pads than a clutch.
Had a 5.0 in my '86 Z28 MT.. one clutch replacement in 150k. miles I was young,and drove the wheels off that Beeatch!

[Wagonbacker9]

Unrelated? There are more than 10 posts about people not downshifting and just putting the car in neutral to the stop.

if you need to accelerate into a stoplight you have bigger problems.


I'm not 100% sure what you guys mean by "revmatch' but I figure you mean 'easing' the clutch out on a downshift, so theres no hard bump when the lower gear is selected. If so, then I do this all the time as well . fun.!
However, I have wondered if it does throw wear and tear on the clutch. I'd rather replace brake pads than a clutch.
Had a 5.0 in my '86 Z28 MT.. one clutch replacement in 150k. miles I was young,and drove the wheels off that Beeatch!

rev matching means getting the flywheel speed (with the gas pedal) to match the transmission input shaft speed for a given gear at a given vehicle speed before engaging the clutch.

[HondaEat-R]

Last time I checked "Moron" was an insult. Forget already ?.... I think that's a little more personal than "ricer", but either way I couldn't care less if you call me a "moron" or not. You're right, having only a cat-back exhaust is just an attempt to make noise.... I'd like to know what I took out of context ? It seems to me that exactly what you said, was outright, well, you know. Everyone likes the sound of a good exhaust systems, but it's weak when that person has to downshift every gear when coming to a light, just so they can hear and be heard.


Honestly, tell me that when you're sitting at a light, and some guy comes gurgling and popping, downshifting every single god damned gear until he's stopped dead.....You don't think in your head "What a clown ass" ? I know I do.

I'll say this one more time so everyone who reads only 1 post in threads, will know where i actually stand. Downshifting has it's place, and should be done a certain way, but not at every freak'n stop light.






Sigh . . . are you really that immature ?? Taking what I said out of context.

I think the concensus is clear in this thread. People downshift as needed. It obviously changes in situations. I don't think anyone downshifts under 3rd gear. Causes no wear on the clutch when you rev match properly.

Honestly this is all a bunch of semantics. Even if you brake all the time brakes are cheap. Either way your fine. Your not doing damage.


Do what you wan't with your car but drop the insults. First im a ricer and now your calling me stupid. If liking my exhaust (which is why anyone buys a catback exhaust in the first place) makes me a ricer then so be it. I could care less and I hate "rice." IF someone wants a 10 foot wing on their car then thats fine. I like it because it makes me laugh. I don't critisize others though. ITs not like I said I was hitting the rev limiter in neighborhoods / at red lights.

[mr_mazda329]

In addition, the folks who drive properly and rev match to downshift aren't thinking "omg, what will the other drivers think of me downshifting?" They are thinking, "I'm going to slow my car down and be in gear to accelerate as needed for my current speed." If someone thinks I'm trying to race them by downshifting, they're a fucking idiot.

As a Mazdaspeed3 note...haven't we seen enough folks blow engines by trying to accelerate in 5th and 6th gear at low revs? ....your thought is 'Save a clutch, blow an engine' HondaEat-R?

Save a clutch indeed.


Haven't heard too many blow from trying to accelerate in 6th (especially not 5th) but its not good and could lead to detonation which could lead to failure down the road if it happens too often.

But to go with the thread, downshift when I stop, also when I come to hills and see the loads go over 50% (Dashhawk)

It has happened a lot in those gears. That's why i never lug the car down in the lower revs and shift around 3500 for daily use.


I rev-match for deccelerating and to be in the correct gear for needing to accel again (3000-3500 RPMS). And i heel-toe if there are any corners involved.

As for the comment saying downshifting is ricer. It only is when you dont rev-match. Cuz most ricers cant drive for shit and it sounds crappy when you dont. Quick Blip FTW!

[HondaEat-R]

I rev-match for deccelerating and to be in the correct gear for needing to accel again (3000-3500 RPMS). And i heel-toe if there are any corners involved.

As for the comment saying downshifting is ricer. It only is when you dont rev-match. Cuz most ricers cant drive for shit and it sounds crappy when you dont. Quick Blip FTW!


^ Exactly. But really, you don't need to downshift at every stop. Otherwise, I agree 100%.

[mr_mazda329]

^ Exactly. But really, you don't need to downshift at every stop. Otherwise, I agree 100%.

Also forgot to add, that i do it to coast down in the revs because it cutz fuel and you get better MPG as opposed to putting it in nuetral coasting @ idle burning fuel to a stop.

[xDJ DUBx]

When you guys downshift to slow down, how high are your revs when you downshift?

[mr_mazda329]

When you guys downshift to slow down, how high are your revs when you downshift?

Since i rarely cruise below 3000 rpms. I would have to say bewtween 3000-4000 rpms while coasting depending on what gear of course

[SallySpeed3]

It was / is funny that the one guy here said he downshifts so he can hear his exhaust drone, which is well, pretty stupid.

I don't understand why liking to hear your exhaust is stupid. If that's the case then why buy mods for our cars? What purpose do they really serve? This car doesn't NEED to be any faster than it already is for 90% of the people that drive it. So why? So other people will be impressed? No. Because we get satisfaction out of it. My wife argues with me all the time, "why do you need to buy something that goes under your hood? no one will see it or care" and I tell her "because I'll know it's there".

I respect everyone's opinion, whether I agree with it or not, but saying someone is stupid because they like to hear their exhaust is just disrespectful.

[squidmotion]

what? are these transmissions made of paper or something?? some of you guys baby these things too much!


i've owned lots of standard shifts... in fact, ALL the cars i've owned are/where manual transmission..... minus one jeep with an auto, and of course the new tundra (not offered with a stick in the V8... bummer)

downshifted every one of them. it makes it easy to have power when you need it, at the proper speed and gear....no searching if you are already there! it's so natural, i never even notice it.

and never had to replace a clutch, or any other issues on any of my standard cars, other than the nova, but that is a different matter... from muncies, to t-5s, to borg warners, gertrags, etc. etc. it's not hard on the clutch at all (unless you are a slipping clutch all the time idiot) and not hard on the tranny either. just using the other side of the gear teeth. :)

now letting the engine over rev because you stupidly downshift one to many? that's your own fault, moron. using the clutch as your 'launch control' .... epic fail.

i love the ease of gear matching this car affords... it toe-heel shifts very well also. in fact, it is refreshing to see a car set up for the toe-heel thing like this, at least for my feet. and it sounds very sweet to let you know you are doing it right. i hate quiet stick cars.


i've hauled in 30 head of cattle screaming downhill on useless brakes, with a 4speed in a '78 chevy dually once (THANK GOD it wasn't an automatic)... i had to pull the seat cover out of my ass at the end of that trip.... i guess i'm showing my age now... :)



side note: wifey says she is getting tired of ricer guys trying to hit on her while she fills up the tiny tank in this thing...

[mazdaspeedster3]

^^ You will have to post pics of the wife for us to beleive people are hitting on her while at the pump. :-)

[xDJ DUBx]

+1 (evil)

[Ajburr]

I never engine brake, I don't see the point in that. I'll generally float it in neutral and use the brakes if I'm coming up to a light or something, and if it turns green before I stop I'll just throw it in the appropriate gear, I don't feel like that's a waste of time for me, it takes about 1 second.

[s-retire]

I never engine brake, I don't see the point in that. I'll generally float it in neutral and use the brakes if I'm coming up to a light or something,

Please don't follow behind me too close driving like that. The immediately foreseeable outcome is the loss of braking due to overheating.

Wow, it appears that some people on these boards have little driving experience. Driving that way is bad enough, then to admit it publicly…

At least keep the driveline engaged in the gear you were in until your speed is reduced. It’s about being safe and in some instances driving in neutral also illegal.

[xDJ DUBx]

illegal? (evil)

[s-retire]

illegal? (evil)

Quoting California VC.

Coasting Prohibited – The driver of a motor vehicle when traveling on a down grade upon any highway shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in neutral.

I'll bet many other states have similar laws. (limb)

[Darth Vader]

^^ You will have to post pics of the wife for us to beleive people are hitting on her while at the pump. :-)

riceboyz'll hit anything, grandmas, pre-teen kids...large immobile objects (lol2)

[derspi]

illegal? (evil)

Yup, you betcha. Like someone else already mentioned, if you're not in gear, that just basically means you have no throttle and can't get out of the way if someone is coming at you in any direction. Accidents happen in a matter of a split second so it's not likely you can react in time by clutching in, putting it in gear, steer and accelerate to avoid it.

Obviously, at some point in time just before coming to a complete stop at a light, you WILL have to be in neutral. But it's better to be in neutral for only a second as opposed to 3 or 4 when coasting in from a longer distance.

[oaklandopen]

the problem with the question of downshifting while daily driving is that it is so general, especially when it deals with driving a car. there are too many situations that are different and require different driving habits

for me, if im on a road that warrants 6th gear speeds and i see a light ahead that's red or in the process of changing i generally rev match to 4th which starts a nice slowing, then i begin to apply the brakes. before the rpms get too low (like at a stalling number) i just put it in neutral. but that's just 1 situation that could just as easily go a much different way and thus require a totally different kind of slowing. ie, i could be in 6th cruising and the light changes at the point where you can't waste time downshifting, so you have to go right into braking (maybe even hard braking if it's a fast enough road).

if you live in pretty much any other state than florida sometimes you have to downshift when coming to a hill (downhill). in certain areas around where i live the downhill slopes can be long, and have a stop at the end. that's when i rev match a really low gear like 3rd and the rpms will be high (between 4 and 5k). but what that does is maintain a constant speed, but save the brakes. and i always wonder about the ppl that ride their brakes down some of these hills cuz doing that is one of the worst things you can do for your brakes. that's what gives you hot-spots in your rotors and takes plenty of pad away.

but once again that's only a couple situations, there are soooo many that you have to deal with on a daily basis. but if i were being general, i would say that i do use engine braking in select moderation, and i always rev-match to do so.

and btw...NOTHING engine brakes like a bike does. that was like 90% of my slowing down

[Darth Vader]

Like what bike? A Harley? Most modern SBs have a slipper clutch and large holes between the cylinders to DECREASE engine braking effects, because, at the limit, that's what locks up the rear tire at the threshold of traction. If 90% of your slowing down is due to engine braking, you're certainly riding a Harley. (cabpatch)

[protegericky]

(eek2)froom time to time

[oaklandopen]

Like what bike? A Harley? Most modern SBs have a slipper clutch and large holes between the cylinders to DECREASE engine braking effects, because, at the limit, that's what locks up the rear tire at the threshold of traction. If 90% of your slowing down is due to engine braking, you're certainly riding a Harley. (cabpatch)

don't know what you're talking about, but my gixxer 600 easily pushed me forward in my seat when i blipped the throttle up and dropped gears in high rpms. all those rpms with the throttle plate closed really forces the rpms (and therefore speed) to drop rapidly

[Darth Vader]

Of course it does but, if you don't know what I'm talking about, you must have an older bike. Manufacturers, especially since '05, are doing everything to limit engine braking effects, because they unsettle the bike at high speed under heavy braking. You'll notice that this has particularly changed the face of World Superbike racing. Partly because of this effort, they can brake WAY deeper into a turn than previously possible. They leave braking to the brakes and downshift to get the right gear for the drive off the apex. Corner speeds are way up, unsettling rear wheel hop way down, stability into and mid-turn way up.

[oaklandopen]

well mine was an '05, but im not sure of the technical data. im also not keen on the mechanics of motorcycles (know some things) so i wasn't aware of the slipper clutch or hole between the cylinders.

all i know is, in pertaining to this thread, that i used a whole lot of engine braking with my bike. probably because i was too nervous after hearing horror stories of the back wheel locking up (or god forbid have the front lock up somehow) and i ended up using the engine more than the brakes.

[Wagonbacker9]

don't know what you're talking about, but my gixxer 600 easily pushed me forward in my seat when i blipped the throttle up and dropped gears in high rpms. all those rpms with the throttle plate closed really forces the rpms (and therefore speed) to drop rapidly

I locked the rear tire on my RF600 engine braking numerous times... most of them I was pretty heavy on the front brake too though, and it was always controlled, a partial skid if you will. I RARELY used my foot brake.

to your other point... people who unilaterally do not engine brake.... should just drive automatics, as they don't understand what they are doing fully. situations require alteration to your driving, exactly like you said, and driving a manual allows me to adapt to that more fully. thats half the reason I have one to begin with.

[Ajburr]

Please don't follow behind me too close driving like that. The immediately foreseeable outcome is the loss of braking due to overheating.

Wow, it appears that some people on these boards have little driving experience. Driving that way is bad enough, then to admit it publicly…

At least keep the driveline engaged in the gear you were in until your speed is reduced. It’s about being safe and in some instances driving in neutral also illegal.

I'm talking about normal street driving, for anything above 3rd gear, I keep the driveline engaged until I am below 30 mph (IE coming off the highway I'll go from 6th down to 4th as I'm slowing down) but I don't engine brake after that, I'm not going very fast at that point and I don't need everyone to know how loud my exhaust is. As for the brakes overheating, you really don't know what you're talking about. I don't know where that is coming from, unless you envision every ms3 driver drives like a retard racing inbetween every stop sign and stoplight and not keeping it in gear when they are slowing down.

[xDJ DUBx]

I'm talking about normal street driving, for anything above 3rd gear, I keep the driveline engaged until I am below 30 mph (IE coming off the highway I'll go from 6th down to 4th as I'm slowing down) but I don't engine brake after that, I'm not going very fast at that point and I don't need everyone to know how loud my exhaust is. As for the brakes overheating, you really don't know what you're talking about. I don't know where that is coming from, unless you envision every ms3 driver drives like a retard racing inbetween every stop sign and stoplight and not keeping it in gear when they are slowing down.

http://cdn.ebaumnation.com/2009/02/16/roflcopter.web.jpg

[Darth Vader]

well mine was an '05, but im not sure of the technical data. im also not keen on the mechanics of motorcycles (know some things) so i wasn't aware of the slipper clutch or hole between the cylinders.

all i know is, in pertaining to this thread, that i used a whole lot of engine braking with my bike. probably because i was too nervous after hearing horror stories of the back wheel locking up (or god forbid have the front lock up somehow) and i ended up using the engine more than the brakes.

Honestly, that approach is suicidal. One of the great strengths of a bike is braking, given the light weight and powerful systems. Learn to use them right and they'll save your life. Engine braking is no subsitute for knowing what your doing with the real brakes. Go out to a deserted parking lot and practise heavy braking, working up slowly. I have been riding for decades and I still get out there and practise avoidance maneuvers and braking, especially before I set out after a winter's rest. Trust me, to lock up a front brake on most sport bikes you have to be a meat-fisted moron, their feedback is that good. Locking up the rear in a straight line on a sportbike is also unlikely, because sportbike brake setups don't give you alot of rear brake anyway. Even if you do, in a straight line, all you'll do is drag the wheel a bit.

I ride a Gixxer, too, an 07 1000.

[8.5MS3]

hey Ajburr where do you live so i can put my mind at ease?


btw did you engine brake during the break in process? if not your gonna be burning oil later on....

[Wagonbacker9]

Honestly, that approach is suicidal. One of the great strengths of a bike is braking, given the light weight and powerful systems. Learn to use them right and they'll save your life. Engine braking is no subsitute for knowing what your doing with the real brakes. Go out to a deserted parking lot and practise heavy braking, working up slowly. I have been riding for decades and I still get out there and practise avoidance maneuvers and braking, especially before I set out after a winter's rest. Trust me, to lock up a front brake on most sport bikes you have to be a meat-fisted moron, their feedback is that good. Locking up the rear in a straight line on a sportbike is also unlikely, because sportbike brake setups don't give you alot of rear brake anyway. Even if you do, in a straight line, all you'll do is drag the wheel a bit.

I ride a Gixxer, too, an 07 1000.

Straying from topic a bit here, but... seeing as this topic seems to have been fully discussed with no consensus what so ever... I don't care.
maybe its because mine wasn't a "full" sport bike, but i disagree with this. it wasn't difficult for me to lock the rear brake, thats half the reason I didn't use it. if I was moderately braking with the front there was enough weight transfer that the rear would lock relatively easily. strait line, you'll drag it, if you're turning and you lock it, you're either a professional rider, or you're likely going down.

[squidmotion]

^^ You will have to post pics of the wife for us to beleive people are hitting on her while at the pump. :-)


too funny. i'll see if i can find a photo... (yeah, sure)








if you live in pretty much any other state than florida......


north florida can get VERY hilly!!!!


now south texas? THAT is utter flatness.

[mazdaspeedster3]

How far off topic can we get?

I dont remember the last time I used the rear brake on my bike, 07 SV1000. Front brakes only. I can lock up the rear far to easy. The front brake does all the work and why wouldnt it? 16 inch dual calipers....

[s-retire]

hey Ajburr where do you live so i can put my mind at ease?

My thought exactly (nailbyt)


I never engine brake, I don't see the point in that. I'll generally float it in neutral and use the brakes if I'm coming up to a light or something,

(huh) You never engine brake, but...


I'm talking about normal street driving, for anything above 3rd gear, I keep the driveline engaged until I am below 30 mph (IE coming off the highway I'll go from 6th down to 4th as I'm slowing down) but I don't engine brake after that, I'm not going very fast at that point

You do? I hope you can understand my confusion. (lol)


As for the brakes overheating, you really don't know what you're talking about.

Now that is funny. I'm very glad you've yet to experience brake fade, but drive like you advocated in the first post and you soon will. As you gain driving experience, you will come to understand that I do know a thing or two.

In the mean time be careful what you post, someone may mistake it for sound advice. (wedge)

[LukeP]

I try to use the front and rear brakes evenly on my bike so they wear evenly, but I tend to ride the rear brake more at slower speeds and the front at higher speeds. It's a honda 230 enduro.

I have locked up the rear brake a few times during practiced (or unpracticed) panic stops. It just sort of swings around on a pivot behind me while the front generally doesnt lock up. Its funny how your body acts like an automatic leveling and stability control device on a bike.

As for the topic itself, I usually only engine brake in the higher gears then at slower speeds its really not worth the effort considering the negligable braking effort required. However, I do it hardcore on my bike because its so easy. Sequential shifting is so much easier, and the clutch throws are so quick on a bike. Driving a car after seems so laborous, even though I love to row my own still.

[Ajburr]

I was responding to the OP in reguards to engine braking while he's coming to a stop, like 3rd and 2nd gear engine braking. I should have clarified, I (do) engine brake when coming off the highway or coming down from highway speeds, generally I use 4th gear though and keep it engaged until I'm below 30, but I do not row the gears everytime I come to a stop. And yes I've experienced brake fade before, but not in this car, and not during daily driving. I've done a plenty of hard braking on the track, I know the limits of my brakes. I'm at 28k miles now, my pads are fine, my rotors aren't warped. I do appreciate you chiming in and telling me I don't know how to drive though, but I think I'm ok.

[8.5MS3]

again where do you live, just because you drive on a track does not make you a good/safe driver....i go to the track often and know plenty of guys that go and drive like lunatics on the street

[Ajburr]

Stay far away from Minnesota then.

And no I do not drive like a lunatic, I baby her.

[oaklandopen]

off topic yet again...but i feel that some of the posts after mine require some more response:

i was well aware of my gixxer's brakes and how good they were...lessons were learned from mistakes, and that goes for engine braking too. by accident i was coming into a gas station, thought i had put it in neutral, and ended up releasing the clutch quickly (like one might when going into neutral) and as i turned the rpms flew up and my rear tire skidded away from me a little cuz it had actually gone into 1st. freaked me out someting awful.

i had also experience a slight bit of endo during a somewhat emergency braking. only reason i knew the rear wheel had come up is when i came to a stop and slammed it down, also not cool for me.

i was mostly an overly safe motorcycle rider. and during my crazy instances, they were mainly just straight line speeding on extremely open roads with no one around. i was too nervous to do knee dragging on public roads because i never wanted to hit a patch of gravel or debris

but having said this, i was also to stay in the "haven't wrecked yet" category during my 3 years as a rider, and promptly sold the bike which helped as a down payment towards the ms3.

and in keeping with a little bit of this thread, i carried over a few things after experiencing a bike towards the ms3 to included things like engine braking. and really it all comes down to situations dictating whether or not to use engine braking...it's not all the time and it's not never

[LukeP]

don't know what you're talking about, but my gixxer 600 easily pushed me forward in my seat when i blipped the throttle up and dropped gears in high rpms. all those rpms with the throttle plate closed really forces the rpms (and therefore speed) to drop rapidly

Same here, I have a brand new 2009 CRF honda enduro and it engine brakes super hard. I'm not revving it much either, enduro motors are all ohv single valve torque. At least this one is.

EDIT: Roommate has a Yammy 250 and it engine brakes just as forcefully.

[carbosam]

Now that is funny. I'm very glad you've yet to experience brake fade, but drive like you advocated in the first post and you soon will. As you gain driving experience, you will come to understand that I do know a thing or two.

In the mean time be careful what you post, someone may mistake it for sound advice. (wedge)

So you are really THAT guy...

Using your brake for braking is just fine...

Is it yourself your trying to convince here or something?

[s-retire]

So you are really THAT guy...

What "THAT guy"


Using your brake for braking is just fine...

True


Is it yourself your trying to convince here or something?

I'm not sure what you are suggesting or asking. Please elaborate.

[xDJ DUBx]

This subject has been beaten to death already.

[cymx5]

I try not to upshift while daily driving. I stick to the lowest gear possible for the speed limit, then just ride the high revs up and down as needed. Why do more work shifting than you have to?

[Wagonbacker9]

I try not to upshift while daily driving. I stick to the lowest gear possible for the speed limit, then just ride the high revs up and down as needed. Why do more work shifting than you have to?

to keep your engine in a tolerable RPM range?

[07speed3]

I down shift and rev match everywhere i go...that might have something to do with the fact my front brakes lasted 70k miles and im at 80k on the stock rear brakes!

[pdqgp]

I sometime will downshift when approaching a light with lots of traffic around. However, I still think hitting the brakes is easier and safer. By safer, I mean I'm alerting traffic behind me that I'm slowing down vs them not perhaps noticiing it as much.

There are many times though where if I'm driving and coming up to a light without much traffic, I'll just put the car in neutral and coast. IMO, the car slows down enough just fine and if for any reason I need to get out of the way of something, I can just pop back into gear just the same.

Pesonally, I just hit the brakes and shift back into the appropriate gear when needed. When taking turns I rarely shift all the way down to 2nd in the MS3. 2nd to me is a pretty low gear and at anything over 20mph it's just too low unless. I rarely need to rocket out of a turn like that. 3rd is perfect. The only time I'll hit second is if I'm wanting to have fun or if I'm rolling between 2-10mph.

[zinger002]

I try not to upshift while daily driving. I stick to the lowest gear possible for the speed limit, then just ride the high revs up and down as needed. Why do more work shifting than you have to?



to save gas, well atleast a little...


When crusing i stay in whatever gear till about 1200 rpm when slowing down for the purpouse of saving gas.
When driving like a ricer i rev-match and brake as hard as my car possibly can. lol.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/2003specv/12f7d1f2573098958a0a898.gif

[SBSPEED3]

i down shift and double clutch to 3rd usually, then just shift to neutral to come to a stop.
if traffic slows suddenly in front of me i will engine brake while on slowing down using the standard brakes.
usually i am lazy, and dont actually "double clutch" i will usually just blip the throttle while clutch is in and i am switching gears. does this put extra stress on anything (more than actually letting off the clutch in neutral, blipping the throttle, clutch in, shifting to lower gear)?

[Wagonbacker9]

double clutching is pretty much dated and pointless unless your syncros are going out...

[ForceFed]

i down shift and double clutch to 3rd usually,
YOu own copies of each Fast and the Furious dont you?

[xDJ DUBx]

I own all 4, lol

[cymx5]

I down shift and rev match everywhere i go...that might have something to do with the fact my front brakes lasted 70k miles and im at 80k on the stock rear brakes!

Man, you must have replaced your clutch and transmission like...i donno...4 times by now :rolleyes:

[Wagonbacker9]

Man, you must have replaced your clutch and transmission like...i donno...4 times by now :rolleyes:

my dad and I both downshifted very regularly on the car I learned stick on.. 188K, OEM clutch and trans.

[ZoomZoom06]

Can someone explain why downshifting is bad? I'm lost? I would assume if you can do up in gears with no issue, you should be able to go down?

[xDJ DUBx]

Why is this thread still open? Ppl are just repeating other ppl now.

[SBSPEED3]

YOu own copies of each Fast and the Furious dont you?

lol well i do double clutch in drag races all the time!!! and i could use about 20 gallons of NOS!!!

idk, i guess you would call it rev matching (by blipping the throttle while clutch is in during down shifting).

and no, i do not own the F&F series, i do really like the one where they put a nissan motor in an old mustang fastback... that was a really clever idea... (hand)

[07speed3]

Man, you must have replaced your clutch and transmission like...i donno...4 times by now :rolleyes:

actually no...still good to go(thumb)

[Knox Joe]

Can someone explain why downshifting is bad? I'm lost? I would assume if you can do up in gears with no issue, you should be able to go down?

It isn't. Why would Nissan add Rev match to their 370Z if it was?

People who don't rev match = (screwy)

[xDJ DUBx]

My understand is, to engine brake, you have to not rev match? Is this correct or did I get something mixed up?

[Wagonbacker9]

My understand is, to engine brake, you have to not rev match? Is this correct or did I get something mixed up?

engine braking = braking with the engine... not braking with the clutch. so yes, you're confused. you can rev match your downshifts and use the engine to decelerate the car, while causing minimal to no noticable additional wear. saying that it is "boy racer" is ignorant, as is saying that it is significantly harmful to any wear items on the car (when done properly).

[xDJ DUBx]

Ahhh, so rev matching is engine braking when u let off the gas which isn't harmful and not rev matching is clutch braking when u left off the clutch and its really hard on the trans and components.

Got cha

[Knox Joe]

Usually when you are braking you will normally be going down a gear or two, so as you downshift you heel toe, to brake the car with your toe, and match the engine revs to the gear you're going into with your heel.

Both ways are engine braking actually, if you are going to need to slow down, and you just let off the gas, don't use the brake, leave it in the same gear, and let the engine wind down as you slow that is also engine braking.

[oaklandopen]

I own all 4, lol

There was a fast'n furious 2?

[xDJ DUBx]

The Fast And The Furious
2Fast 2Furious
The Fast And The Furious: Tokyo Drift
Fast & Furious

Thats 4

[oaklandopen]

Yeah i must have thought it was still 2001

[zoomdoom]

leave it in the same gear, and let the engine wind down as you slow that is also engine braking.

Thats what I do unless there is a serious change in speed like exiting the highway and stopping ahead then I will re-gear lower. Never usually lower than 3rd.

[HondaEat-R]

Wow, this thread again, haha... "When done properly" is the key to this, like most things. If you rev match properly, when you let out the clutch (softly or just dump it) you will feel NO jerking at all when engagement happens, which equals minimal wear on all parts involved.

[mr_mazda329]

Wow, this thread again, haha... "When done properly" is the key to this, like most things. If you rev match properly, when you let out the clutch (softly or just dump it) you will feel NO jerking at all when engagement happens, which equals minimal wear on all parts involved.

Wow, this had to be repeated? This is the best way to do it.

[matsuda]

Can someone explain why downshifting is bad?

There is nothing wrong with downshifting if done properly.

Example of bad downshifting: Slowing down to stop at a red light and downshifting to 2nd (bad), or 1st (buy an automatic).

[iracer7]

Dumb question perhaps but how do you properly engine brake and rev match? If you need to slow down pretty quickly you would need to have your left foot on the clutch when downshifting, your other foot (your heel) on the brake, and your right leg's toes on the gas? I just put it in neutral and cost to stop signs and lights.

[Knox Joe]

Toe on the brake, and use your heel to blip the throttle to match revs.

[HondaEat-R]

Wow, this had to be repeated? This is the best way to do it.

Yes, it did have to be repeated. See how some people still have questions about it ?

[iracer7]

The dealer I bought the car from said he just put it in neutral and let it cost to stop. Not sure how I would know how to brake otherwise. This is the first manual transmission car I've driven. I've just coasted in neutral for the first 5,000 miles when coming to a stop. Gonna be hard to change now.

[8.5MS3]

The dealer I bought the car from said he just put it in neutral and let it cost to stop. Not sure how I would know how to brake otherwise. This is the first manual transmission car I've driven. I've just coasted in neutral for the first 5,000 miles when coming to a stop. Gonna be hard to change now.

thats bad for seating the rings but too late now. also being out of gear is dangerous if you need to do an emergency manouver and need power.

why the fuck is this thread still open. No i dont downshift, if i go on the highway and go into 6th i never take it out, even if stopped and leaving from a light after getting off the highway. does that answer the op (gah) lol

[MSP1060]

See red light, put in neutral, stop car.

See turn, apply brake when nessicary, rpm match to desired gear, hammer out of turn.