Cylinder 4 Spark Plug Keeps Blowing [Archive]

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xDJ DUBx

10-19-2009, 07:15 PM

Alight, long story short. Spark plug blew in July, I replaced it, about a month and a half later, blew again, a week ago, blew again.

Last thursday I replaced both coilpacks, wires and all four spark plugs and I blew the same one again today.

I have been running the correct spark plugs and bought the coils and wires brand new. It's also Cylinder 4 every single time after the car has been ran a little hard for a few days.

Ideas? Please?

orng1

10-19-2009, 08:00 PM

Spark plug keeps blowing out of the cylinder, keeps blowing out the spark, keeps becoming filled with carbon. That's not enough info and way to random to get any real help. Give as much detailed info as you can and I will answer your question.

xDJ DUBx

10-19-2009, 08:05 PM

The spark plug keeps fouling, like completely blowing the tip of the plug so it doesn't work anymore.

I have pics of the previous ones.

First one
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/xDJ_DUBx/03%20lx%20performance/DSC02455.jpg
It was fused on the tip but we managed to gap it so I could use it to get to a parts store

Second one
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/xDJ_DUBx/03%20lx%20performance/DSC02453.jpg
Destroyed

Third one, didn't take a pic but looked alot like the first one. I havn't pulled the current one yet.

orng1

10-19-2009, 08:11 PM

Wow that is a lot of info, picture is worth a 1000 words. Ok Look inside the cylinder if you see a shiny spot you hit the piston and you may have a damaged rod. Though I think you detonated, recheck your timing to make sure you didn't jump a tooth on the timing belt and that you are running a proper heat range plug.

xDJ DUBx

10-19-2009, 08:13 PM

Ok, thanks. How do I check the timing? Pull the valve cover?

Falango threw out the idea of the fuel injector being the cause, is this possible?

justanothermp5

10-19-2009, 08:17 PM

do u have fluid inside the cylinder when u pull the plug out? it might be a leaky valve or piston rings having to big of a gap with the wall

orng1

10-19-2009, 08:18 PM

It could be a possibility, bad injector can cause detonation. Is there any signs off a miss at idle hot or cold, car stalling?

xDJ DUBx

10-19-2009, 08:20 PM

At start up, once warm, the car will be around 800 then drop low to about 400 and be ruff for a sec or two, then jump back up for a few more secs and it'll usually do this 3 times in a row. It also does it sometimes while I'm stopped during a drive but no always.

justanothermp5

10-19-2009, 08:23 PM

switch out the injectors on 3 and 4 and see if that does anything, or u could pull one off the p5 u have and try that

Laser Blue

10-19-2009, 08:27 PM

For what its worth (and it may not be worth much since I'm no expert) I don't think its detonation cuz the color of all the plugs looks nearly textbook perfect. It looks like piston slap to me, like you're running a plug that sits so deep in the cylinder the piston is banging against it. You could have a bad wrist pin or something so the connecting rod is forcing the piston up too high. I used to race dirtbikes and would get piston slap right before the piston turned to shrapnel. I don't see how it would be timing... if it had slipped a tooth or two the car would run erratically with a brand new plug in there too. If the timing caused detonation then the plug should look melted down; not hammered. I would have someone look at the top end of the #4 piston to see if it looks nicked up from hitting the plug.
For the record, I hope I'm wrong, cuz changing out an injector would be a much easier fix....

Laser Blue

10-19-2009, 08:29 PM

orng1

10-19-2009, 08:34 PM

I think it's a stressed rod too but don't want to say that just yet. Always the easier cheaper first in my book.

xDJ DUBx

10-19-2009, 08:38 PM

I hope I get lucky and its the cheap, I'd hate to swap motors after I just setup the turbo for this one.

Laser Blue

10-19-2009, 08:40 PM

I'm with you, but it sure wouldn't be the first time a car with 100K + miles needed a top end build. I've heard of guys getting around it for a while (until the rod or wrist pin go gunny) by cross referencing a plug that is identical in every other respect but has a little shallower thread.

orng1

10-19-2009, 08:40 PM

switch out the injectors on 3 and 4 and see if that does anything, or u could pull one off the p5 u have and try that

If your going to swap injectors between cylinders do 1 and 4, the 3rd cylinder is thought to be the weaker cylinder in most 4 cylinders then 2. Either clean out the injectors or just keep tossing injector cleaner in the tank. You can clean the injectors in a container of carb cleaner, that's why they sell it in the cans.

IukekiniProtege

10-19-2009, 08:41 PM

thats not blowing up, blowing up is what both my 1.6l used to do...plug would get destroyed on the tip and also shoot up through the threads and destroy the coil. Never traced down the problem. Had one local guy tell me he had only seen that when someone had a stressed and stretched rod, however my motor went for thousands of abused miles after, until finally the crash.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii187/webxdesigns/DSCF9223.jpg

Laser Blue

10-19-2009, 08:44 PM

xDJ DUBx

10-19-2009, 08:44 PM

WOW.

If its the piston, wouldn't that be a bottom end build?

Alright, now that I have some leads, I'm going to try each one tomorrow, and see what I come up with.

Laser Blue

10-19-2009, 08:46 PM

If your going to swap injectors between cylinders do 1 and 4, the 3rd cylinder is thought to be the weaker cylinder in most 4 cylinders then 2. Either clean out the injectors or just keep tossing injector cleaner in the tank. You can clean the injectors in a container of carb cleaner, that's why they sell it in the cans.

If you're gonna soak the injectors in carb cleaner, remove the o-rings first. It'll eat them.

Laser Blue

10-19-2009, 08:47 PM

WOW.

If its the piston, wouldn't that be a bottom end build?

Alright, now that I have some leads, I'm going to try each one tomorrow, and see what I come up with.

Not exactly.... kinda the middle, I guess(evil) The bottom end is crankshaft and bearings, etc.

xDJ DUBx

10-19-2009, 08:49 PM

Did someone say forge? Ok. :)

lol, I wish.

boostdprotegelx

10-19-2009, 08:57 PM

greg. i posted in your other thread.

i'm fairly certain this is your issue-over revving.

i remember when you made that video of the turbo in the day time. the driver seriously over revved. .. i know these are non interference motors, but that doesn't necessarily have to do with the plugs. i'm fairly sure the piston slapped the plug. that's your issue.

xDJ DUBx

10-19-2009, 09:01 PM

If this is in fact a piston tap, wouldn't it happen a lot more frequent or sooner? I mean, its not like I drive the car smooth then when I go hard it happens, it'll take a lot of spirited driving and nothing happens.

Also, when it happened today, normal smooth driving, wasn't going hard at all.

Laser Blue

10-19-2009, 09:03 PM

Think about driving a nail with a little hammer... it isn't one blow that buries the nail.... its a progression. The last tap could be a very light one and still be the one that completely sinks the nail.

EDIT: Does this sound like a rerun of Kung Fu or what...lol

boostdprotegelx

10-19-2009, 09:04 PM

Laser Blue

10-19-2009, 09:06 PM

Ah so.... thank you Grasshoppah

xDJ DUBx

10-19-2009, 09:10 PM

Wait, so I have a nail in my motor?!??!!?

jk :)

orng1

10-19-2009, 09:56 PM

I drove my car on the rev limiter for the last 40k miles. Havent had any issues like that.

xDJ DUBx

10-19-2009, 09:57 PM

Where is the rev limiter btw?

orng1

10-19-2009, 10:05 PM

2 clicks past the red line

Falango

10-19-2009, 10:07 PM

It's under your seat.

How long do you let the motor warm up after it's been sitting cold. Is this happening at the start of your drives when the motor is cold? I ask because if this is piston slap, that is when it will happen. I had piston slap in my first car, 95 Neon, but it would only happen for the first minute or so on a cold motor. As soon as I pulled away, it was fine. I would start with the easy stuff and change the injectors because you never know. After that, you may have to take a good look at that piston to verify that it's contacting the plug.

xDJ DUBx

10-19-2009, 10:08 PM

Falango

10-19-2009, 10:11 PM

Well if it is piston slap, that hammer and nail theory would explain that. It isn't one huge hit that is the problem, it would be gradual hits on the plug to the point where you don't get optimal spark. It would fall into that range of the occasional bad spark, and gradually get worse as the gap closes, to where it just won't spark anymore (probably once there is no gap).

xDJ DUBx

10-19-2009, 10:13 PM

I'll be pulling the plug here in a little, so we'll see what I find out

orng1

10-19-2009, 10:19 PM

I'll be pulling the plug here in a little, so we'll see what I find out

http://www.justin.tv/xdjdubx ???

Lil_vicious559

10-19-2009, 10:20 PM

Something else I just thought of, everytime the spark plug goes out, it's never harsh or violent like something hitting something else, it's always driving then it starts missing, but never a distinctive "break" point you know?

Falango, on all occasions, car was fully warm and had been driving for awhile prior to the plug going out.

I think i have the answer to you're question. If your gaps keep getting closed on Ur spark plugs. You have a bad piston or your butterfly flaps fell into one of the cylinder chamber ports and the screw is stuck in cylinder port #4 causing the piston to push up on Ur spark plug.

This happened on my 02 SE-R. The butterfly flaps are known to be loose on the screws. Sure enough happened to me. I took apart my manifold and the Flap was stuck inside of cylinder port#4. Car would go into limp mode after 4000rpms and would sound like a WRX. Here's what it looked like:

On the left is what happened to cylinder port #1 on my SE-R
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4081/050fd.jpg (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/050fd.jpg/) http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8186/051hg.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/051hg.jpg/)

xDJ DUBx

10-19-2009, 10:23 PM

http://www.justin.tv/xdjdubx ???

lol, ok. I'll do it live.

Lil_vicious559

10-19-2009, 10:25 PM

You need to take apart your manifold. and check you're cylinder ports. I bet the butterfly flap came loose and the screw to the flap got stuck inside your cylinder port bouncing around causing the piston to rise up and close the gap.

This may be ur problem. happens usually when you go WOT. Fortunately on the Sentra SE-R's. This has been a known problem. The screws are known to be loose on the butterfly flaps. When you got WOT the flaps open up

boostdprotegelx

10-19-2009, 10:31 PM

it's a known problem to the proteges too.

Lil_vicious559

10-19-2009, 10:37 PM

it's a known problem to the proteges too.

If that's the case, Then that might be the problem. My friend who's a mechanic couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. He really didn't have time to rip apart my head and figure out what was wrong. So i did it myself. Sure enough i went on b15sentra.net and asked. They said it was common for the 02-03 SE-R's to have loose screws on the flaps causing it to fall off and get stuck into the cylinder ports.

orng1

10-19-2009, 10:40 PM

I forgot all about that screw falling, much more reason to look in the cylinder and look at the piston. Maybe stick a magnet in there.

xDJ DUBx

10-19-2009, 10:41 PM

going live

orng1

10-19-2009, 10:45 PM

http://www.woodchuckers.com/magnet.jpg

These come in handy at these times.

slavrenz

10-19-2009, 11:16 PM

http://www.woodchuckers.com/magnet.jpg

these come in handy at these times.

+1 ftw

Lil_vicious559

10-19-2009, 11:31 PM

I forgot all about that screw falling, much more reason to look in the cylinder and look at the piston. Maybe stick a magnet in there.

You have to take apart the manifold and look behind where the ports start at. My flap was stuck sitting right in there. I had to get some pliers and get them out. What's causing the piston to rise up and hit the spark plug is the screw that holds the flap. Should be good to go after words

Laser Blue

10-19-2009, 11:50 PM

http://www.woodchuckers.com/magnet.jpg

These come in handy at these times.

For mechanics and gynecologists!

xDJ DUBx

10-20-2009, 02:27 PM

Gonna be going live again here in a few minutes.

orng1

10-21-2009, 02:37 AM

Bump! hey you figure anything out?

xDJ DUBx

10-21-2009, 10:00 AM

Nah, not yet. I'm about half way through to getting the head off. There is just a few things I'm having trouble with removing.

Any pointers for getting the bottom side bolts for the intake mani?

slavrenz

10-21-2009, 05:23 PM

Nah, not yet. I'm about half way through to getting the head off. There is just a few things I'm having trouble with removing.

Any pointers for getting the bottom side bolts for the intake mani?

I would've started with just removing the spark plug and sticking a magnet down in there to see if anything came out. Did you do this?

xDJ DUBx

10-21-2009, 06:39 PM

Found out my problem, uploading pics now.

justanothermp5

10-21-2009, 06:42 PM

uh oh, that means its bad...

xDJ DUBx

10-21-2009, 06:55 PM

After thinking about it more and getting a txt from Neox suggesting to pull the IM and go fishing with a magnent before I pulled the entire head, I changed my game plan for the car. Once I got off of work, I was going straight to it.

Ok so I picked up a normal magnant wand from my lovely gf since the one I bought was too fat and was able to actually stick it all the way into the cylinder. As soon as it went in "tink" so I pulled it and and what do I find?
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/xDJ_DUBx/03%20lx%20performance/DSC02627.jpg

My first thought "What in THE FUCK is that?" So then I started undoing the top of the IM to see if the butterflies were still in tact. Pulled it off to find this...
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/xDJ_DUBx/03%20lx%20performance/DSC02628.jpg
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/xDJ_DUBx/03%20lx%20performance/DSC02629.jpg

Hmm, ok? So all the screws and butterflies are in place? I flipped the IM over to see the other side...
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/xDJ_DUBx/03%20lx%20performance/DSC02630.jpg

Hmm, whats this?
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/xDJ_DUBx/03%20lx%20performance/DSC02631.jpg

2 screws missing. Those are tiny screws though, they couldn't of made all that metal I found in the cylinder. Then I realized, wait a second, those screws are suppose to be holding something! So I run my fingers inside, nothing. Go back to the car to check out the bottom part and...
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/xDJ_DUBx/03%20lx%20performance/DSC02633.jpg
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/xDJ_DUBx/03%20lx%20performance/DSC02632.jpg

WOW! Are you serious!!
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/xDJ_DUBx/03%20lx%20performance/DSC02634.jpg

They were just chilling there, totally loose. I couldn't believe it! Wait, a second, wheres the fourth one? More digging...
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/xDJ_DUBx/03%20lx%20performance/DSC02635.jpg

WOWOWOWOWOWOW!! 3 quarters of this fucker are gone! This must of been slowly been letting little pieces inside my motor over the last couple of months!

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/xDJ_DUBx/03%20lx%20performance/DSC02636.jpg
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/xDJ_DUBx/03%20lx%20performance/DSC02637.jpg

Well, I can't see any damage to the top of the piston, so I'm gonna put everything back together, remove the screws and butterflies, do a compression check to make sure everything is cool, and hope thats the end of this stupid ass problem.

Mazda design fail.

As she sits currently
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr131/xDJ_DUBx/03%20lx%20performance/DSC02638.jpg

SOOOOOO happy to finally know why the fuck this was happening!!! Whooo!!!!

justanothermp5

10-21-2009, 07:04 PM

wow, that makes me nervous about my car now lol, i hope mine are all still intact

xDJ DUBx

10-21-2009, 07:08 PM

Seriously dude, if you don't mine the time, check em, and remove them.

Wagonbacker9

10-21-2009, 07:10 PM

wow... just wow. grats on likely havin the car back at 100% though!

boostdprotegelx

10-21-2009, 07:14 PM

awesome.

did you say after a text from neox? isn't this exactly what i told you to do from the beginning? screw, or the flapper. exactly what i said.

w/e glad you fixed your issue.

martispeed

10-21-2009, 07:54 PM

These were the ones under the TSB or what ever right... If so does your vin fall under the ones Mazda deemed as problematic?

I ask this, wondering if this is something all of us should be looking out for/removing... I know its been around for a while and well known, but it was my understanding this was only a problem in the cars mazda listed.

Laser Blue

10-21-2009, 08:23 PM

My 2003 Protegé does not apply to the 3005C Intake Manifold Shutter recall, but I'm
worried that my intake manifold has the same defect. What can I do?
Your Protegé does not apply to the recall because Mazda has determined that when your
car was manufactured, the defective intake manifolds were not used. This maybe untrue
however since several owners have reported the same issues as what is outlined in the
recall but their car does not apply to it. There are only two options for you in this case:
do nothing and most likely nothing will happen, however when it does hope that your car
is still under warranty and a Mazda dealership will perform the necessary repairs for you.
Or take preventative measures by following everything mentioned in the recall
proceedures at your own expense. If you have determined on your own that the intake
manifold's shutter valve screws are loose, you will need to replace the screws. You will
need to order the recall gasket kit FSY1-13-SRZ. The kit's contents are:
FSJ2-13-111A intake manifold gasket
FS7N-13-135 intake manifold plenum gasket
JE27-20-305A EGR valve gasket
FP87-13-655 throttle body gasket
FS1J-20-109 shutter valve screws (16)
If the screws or shutter valves are missing, then engine damage may have occured. If no
engine damage has occured, then the intake manifold will need to be replaced with
FSY3-13-SRY. It retails for approximately $220 USD which is a substantial discount
from a regular replacement intake manifold.

If you have a MazdaSpeed Protegé, it does not apply to the recall at all because the
intake manifold shutter design is different and is more robust.

J_Naoto

10-21-2009, 08:58 PM

glad you figured it out

wow, that makes me nervous about my car now lol, i hope mine are all still intact

same here!!

Lil_vicious559

10-21-2009, 09:43 PM

Sorry man. Told you it was you're flaps. What was causing the gap on the plugs, was the screw/screws in the cylinder port making the piston rise up and making the gaps close. This is exactly what happened to my SE-R. Glad you took the time and fixed Ur problem.

We all know Mazda/Nissan failed at this......booooo

Falango

10-21-2009, 10:16 PM

It was the pieces of the flap that looked like they ended up in the cylinder.

Lil_vicious559

10-21-2009, 10:46 PM

It was the pieces of the flap that looked like they ended up in the cylinder.

Might not have been a the whole flap, but still a flap and loose screw from the IM. That's what basically happens when the screw is loose, it will fall into the cylinder port.

At least he found out what was wrong

randyj69

10-27-2009, 02:07 PM

yo bro every thing u said in this thred i hav the sam problem now n mine is now makeing a wiste noice, a tick n it says thers a miss fire o yea n also the cylinder #4 has low compression