07-09 vs 2010 MS3 brakes/rims?

[Stavesacre21]

Can anyone tell me if there has been any changes to the brakes or fitment for rims on the 2010 MS3? Looking for winter tires on TireRack and they have a surplus of options for the 07-09 MS3 winter wheel/tire combos, but for 2010, it tells me you have to call.

Aren't they identical? Anyone know?

[DailyDriver]

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[Tyrdstorm]

Can anyone tell me if there has been any changes to the brakes or fitment for rims on the 2010 MS3? Looking for winter tires on TireRack and they have a surplus of options for the 07-09 MS3 winter wheel/tire combos, but for 2010, it tells me you have to call.

Aren't they identical? Anyone know?

They are different. The 07-09 uses 18x7 +52.5mm offset with 215/45 tires while the '10 uses 18x7.5 with 225/40 tires (the offset is around +50mm).

[Tyrdstorm]

Just curious, I see a lot of folks talking about switching to different sized rims for the MS3 for snow tires. Doesn't anyone make a good snow tire for the stock MS3 rims? In a perfect world, it would be cool to have two sets of stock MS3 rims, one set with stock "summer tires" mounted, and one set with "snow tires" mounted. Is this possible using the stock Speed rims? Any particular "snow tire" recommended? Thanks.

If you want snow tires go with Blizzaks.

[iguanaboy]

Plus there are more options for 17 and 16 in wheels. and there cheaper

[DanSpeed6]

2010 speed3 have bigger brakes

[eg6motion]

Just curious, I see a lot of folks talking about switching to different sized rims for the MS3 for snow tires. Doesn't anyone make a good snow tire for the stock MS3 rims? In a perfect world, it would be cool to have two sets of stock MS3 rims, one set with stock "summer tires" mounted, and one set with "snow tires" mounted. Is this possible using the stock Speed rims? Any particular "snow tire" recommended? Thanks.

it's usually cheaper or within a couple hundred bucks to buy a complete set of 17 inch wheels and snow tires vs mounting a set of 18 inch snows on the ms3 wheels.

[DailyDriver]

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[DailyDriver]

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[Kain]

The '10 MS3 just came out, and during the summer, to boot. I don't think even Tire Rack knows yet what will fit.

[Nliiitend1]

2010 speed3 have bigger brakes

Says who?? (dunno)

The spec sheets I've seen show that they're the same sizes:

Front: 12.6" (320 mm)

Rear: 11" (280 mm)

Given that info (and the assumption that the hubs and control arms are the same), I wouldn't think that you'd be required to run any bigger wheels on the 2010 model than on the '07-'09 models. Has there been a caliper change??

[leg2271]

I believe the person who stated the wheels are different was wrong. 2010 has same size rotors, same calipers, and wheel specs are the same. Most 16s should fit. Just order a 16 inch from Tire Rack, that way will know it fits.

[Nliiitend1]

I believe the person who stated the wheels are different was wrong. 2010 has same size rotors, same calipers, and wheel specs are the same. Most 16s should fit. Just order a 16 inch from Tire Rack, that way will know it fits.


The wheels themselves on the 2010 MS3 are indeed dimensionally different. I'm not sure if they're still using a +52.5 mm offset, but the dimensions of the 2010 wheels are 18" diameter x 7.5" width, whereas the earlier cars have 18" diameter x 7" width wheels...

[GoFast]

The wheels themselves on the 2010 MS3 are indeed dimensionally different. I'm not sure if they're still using a +52.5 mm offset, but the dimensions of the 2010 wheels are 18" diameter x 7.5" width, whereas the earlier cars have 18" diameter x 7" width wheels...


si

[leg2271]

So i guess the only thing that needs answered is the caliper.

[bacarl]

The 2010 still has a +52.5mm offset. I was curious about the wheel size so I stuck my phone inside a 2010 wheel at a dealership and snapped a pic of the back of the spoke with the dimension info cast into it. It says "18x71/2J 52.5".

The calipers are probably not literally identical to the 07-09 car, but I very much doubt they've changed enough that you can no longer mount a 16" wheel. Certainly, a 17" wheel should fit. DailyDriver, all that's needed to outift the MS3 for "serious snow action" is a set of 16" wheels with any dedicated snow tire. The only reason people stay away from 18" snow tires is the cost, and possibly the desire for more sidewall. If you want to spend $600-800 for a set of 18's, be my guest.

Also, guys, instead of clammoring all over the forums and getting back answers like "2010 speed3 have bigger brakes" with no substantiating info, feel free to go to some tire shop and test fit a 16" or 17" wheel. That will answer all your questions beyond a shadow of a doubt. Also craigslist works well to pick up used winter set-ups, and you can test fit them before you buy.

[Nliiitend1]

The 2010 still has a +52.5mm offset. I was curious about the wheel size so I stuck my phone inside a 2010 wheel at a dealership and snapped a pic of the back of the spoke with the dimension info cast into it. It says "18x71/2J 52.5".

The calipers are probably not literally identical to the 07-09 car, but I very much doubt they've changed enough that you can no longer mount a 16" wheel. Certainly, a 17" wheel should fit. DailyDriver, all that's needed to outift the MS3 for "serious snow action" is a set of 16" wheels with any dedicated snow tire. I like Blizzaks too, but they're best in deep snow and can wear out quickly on long dry freeway slogs.

Also, guys, instead of clammoring all over the forums and getting back answers like "2010 speed3 have bigger brakes" with no substantiating info, feel free to go to some tire shop and test fit a 16" or 17" wheel. That will answer all your questions beyond a shadow of a doubt. Also craigslist works well to pick up used winter set-ups, and you can test fit them before you buy.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the calipers WERE literally identical...They look that way from the pictures I've seen, anyway...

[Stavesacre21]

That said, i've got a set of RX8 rims I can get for dirt cheap. Would those fit? I know their 18s, 225/45 tires, and a 50mm offset. Offset itsn't going to make a huge difference, but is it something to be worried about if it's a few mm off? Shouldn't be a problem here, should there?

This is one of the few times that having the "newest" model of something sucks really bad....even online, information is very sketchy until people try stuff out and report back.

Thanks for all the great replies, guys. Everyone here is right...craigslist has been a KILLER place to find snows for REALLY cheap. I mean CRAZY cheap. Someone on there has a set of Blizzaks.... 2 in 225/45/18s and 2 in 265/40/18's for $150. Used ONE season. Your lookin at over $1K worth of snow tires.

[DanSpeed6]

Says who?? (dunno)

The spec sheets I've seen show that they're the same sizes:

Front: 12.6" (320 mm)

Rear: 11" (280 mm)

Given that info (and the assumption that the hubs and control arms are the same), I wouldn't think that you'd be required to run any bigger wheels on the 2010 model than on the '07-'09 models. Has there been a caliper change??

Sorry i was wrong, i was looking at the protegespeed specs lol

[Stavesacre21]

New question for you guys. Looking at some Infinti rims off a 2003 G35 sedan. They are also 5x114.3 bolt pattern. Offset is 45mm. Would these fit our car? I see no reason why not but was looking for your thoughts on it.

Thanks!

[Nliiitend1]

What's the hub bore size? It has to be at least 67.1 mm to fit over the MS3's hubs (assuming it hasn't changed since the 1st gen - which it likely hasn't). If it's smaller, it would have to be machined to a larger size...

[Stavesacre21]

Looking for it as we speak...

[Stavesacre21]

Looks like 66.1

really glad I ran it by you guys first...saved me a 2 hour drive, $350, and a lot of headaches.

[Nliiitend1]

No problem. ;)

[leg2271]

Sorry i was wrong, i was looking at the protegespeed specs lol


Actually, the 2010 has 12.6 on the fronts. the rear is smaller, but i dont recall the exact size.

[Nliiitend1]

Actually, the 2010 has 12.6 on the fronts. the rear is smaller, but i dont recall the exact size.



The spec sheets I've seen show that they're the same sizes:

Front: 12.6" (320 mm)

Rear: 11" (280 mm)

[Stavesacre21]

Sounds like I finally got something that seems both reasonable and priced fairly for winter rims.

Found a set of 17" Mazda 6 rims...think they'll clear the brakes?

Rims are 17x7
offset is 60mm
tires are 215/50/17

Looking at the rim sizes of stock 18x7.5 vs. M6 17x7 while taking in offset difference (MS3= 50mm vs M6= 60mm), there should still be almost 2.4mm left before you'd be past the original rim specs to extending inward and almost rubbing the fender walls. Do you think the 10mm difference will make the rims look goofy and sitting inward of the fenders too much?

Any thoughts are welcome guys

[Nliiitend1]

It might look a little odd, but it should work without causing clearance issues, given that the spoke design allows for clearance with the caliper. Do you have a pic of the wheels in question? I think I've seen a few pictures of MS3s with 17" Mazda 6 wheels on them, so my initial instinct is to say they'll probably work...

[Stavesacre21]

Obviously this isn't the ACTUAL rim, but it's the same style and size:

http://www.finishlinewheels.com/prodimg/ALY64857U.jpg

According to the online rim calculator (http://www.1010tires.com/WheelOffsetCalculator.asp), this would be a 4mm stretch inward vs. the stock 18x7.5. Hope that isn't enough to rub on either the fender or the struts. Doesn't look to be.

That calculator also says the the Mazda6 rim will be recessed 16mm after figuring in offset and rim size. crossin my fingers, but I can't pass up $90 for a set of 17" Mazda6 rims without any damage but very minor rash (which i don't care about on winter rims).

Thanks for the help so far guys.

[Sport6]

yeah the 17" mazda 6 wheels fit fine over the calipers, there is a member here that has them on his speed3.

[Stavesacre21]

awesome....now i'm just gonna cross my fingers when it comes to the brakes/offsets being similar. If anything, the 07-09 MS3 rim offset was supposed to be 52.5mm BUT was a 7" wide rim while the 2010 is a 50mm with a 7.5" rim. Sounds like the numbers seems almost the same.

Well have to wait and see. For that deal, i could almost resell them for a profit if they don't fit right.

[leg2271]

I just contacted local mazda dealer and they looked up the caliper information for 2010 and it is the same as the 09.

[Stavesacre21]

Ok, well i've got some results to bring back, and a new set of questions now.

Got the rims home, and threw one on just to see how clearance is. Calipers clear around the diameter of the wheel with ease with more then an inch. However, the big shocker comes with outward clearance. I measured a mere 4mm of clearance between the calipers outward (fender) side to the inner side of the rims.

The $1,000,000 question...do the calipers EVER move outward in relation to the rims? I mean at all...through vibration, bumps, braking, release, anything. Clearly, 4mm of clearance isn't enough room to have almost any flex. I know that rims don't normally move much in relation to the calipers, but I've got almost 0% room for error here. Have you guys ever had rims come close?

I took some pics to illustrate my findings:

The wheel with it's relation to the calipers:
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4210/wholewheel.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/wholewheel.jpg/)

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/594/caliperm.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/caliperm.jpg/)

Now for some ideas of how close the fender side of the calipers are to the rim:
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/8414/topclearence.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/topclearence.jpg/)

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4040/clearence.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/clearence.jpg/)

To show what the offset has done, here's a comparison of the original rim with tire to the offset created by the 8mm difference from 52 to 60:

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/8229/oldoffset.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/oldoffset.jpg/)

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6164/newoffset.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/newoffset.jpg/)


what do you guys think? should I be worried about this? I haven't bought tires for these rims yet, so it's not too late to abandon ship if really need be.

[Nliiitend1]

Well, the only way they would move out would be if you had more pad material on your pads. Furthermore, that outermost perimeter section of the caliper is fixed in relation to the wheel. It's only the inner section (the part that houses the piston and pads) that moves.

Seeing as how your car is brand new and the brake pads are at about their maximum thickness, you shouldn't have a problem. There should not be anywhere near 4 mm of "flex" in the system as it stands, so I think you're fine.

I've had similar clearances between brake pads and calipers before, and while that's getting about as close as I'd feel comfortable with, it's certainly doable.

:)

[leg2271]

i was going to go down to 7 inch wide wheels. Guess if i do that i better get an offset REALLY close to 52.

[Nliiitend1]

i was going to go down to 7 inch wide wheels. Guess if i do that i better get an offset REALLY close to 52.

Just don't get 7" wide wheels with anything MORE than a ~+60mm offset and you'll be fine.

My winter wheels are +44 mm 17"x7" Ford Fusion alloys, and they work splendidly.

[Stavesacre21]

Well that's good to hear about the brakes. I figured i'd be good but just wanted to double check on it.

On to the next phase...tires are on the way within the end of the week. Looks to be the final step in question...if the 215/50/17 tires are gonna rub any of the suspension or the fenders. According to the wheel offset calculator, there should only be 2mm less clearance from the strut housing compared to stock, but does that only figure rims, or does it take into account the tires that go on the rim?

You guys have been a huge help so far. Thanks again for the info.

[Nliiitend1]

I think the one you're using only takes into account the wheel...

I prefer this calculator:

http://www.wheelsmaster.com/rt_specs.jsp

It allows you to put the tire and wheel sizes in.

Regardless, I think you're going to be just fine. ;)

[leg2271]

This might be a stupid question, but everyone here seems to know what they are talking about so i figured id ask. Does going to a smaller wheel affect your speedometer or the # of miles? I didnt think it did, but a friend said he thought it did.

[Stavesacre21]

WOW, that's an awesome calculator you have there! Pretty much answered all of my questions! Thanks!

as for the question asked, a smaller total diameter (across the wheel and tire) WILL make a difference, thus making the circumference also smaller. Use that calculator that Niiiitd1 to confirm how much.

Think about the simple math of it...a smaller wheel completes a rotation faster then a larger wheel traveling the same speed next to each other. If you check a speedo on both tires that are calibrated for the larger tire, it will read that the smaller tire is going faster then it actually is...because its figuring for a larger total circumference to complete the rotation...which is obviously going to happen faster if your working with a smaller tire. Make any sense?

That said above, it will affect your odometer, but depending on how much smaller your wheel is will determine how quickly your miles become inaccurate. If your speedo is reading 1MPH faster @ 60MPH, then in 60 miles, you'll have gained an extra 1 mile on your odometer that you're car didn't actually travel. You could see how really small tires throwing you off 5MPH could add up quickly over 10s of 1000s of miles. If you get a LARGER tire/rim combo then your speedo is calibrated for, then your not going to be putting on as many miles as you actually have.

The part that's been tough to figure that i've been eating away at is when you not only throw in different wheel sizes, but also a different offset, tire profile and tire thickness. Suspension has been a concern of mine but it looks like it'll work out since i've only got about 1-3mm of extra tire/rim on the inside of the well.

[leg2271]

Thanks for pointing out the above link. It is really good. One thing, i put in the numbers and the smaller wheel is saying the mileage will be less, not more. Going down to a 16 from 18, it says speedometer will read 60, but actual speed is 61.4.

[Nliiitend1]

Thanks for pointing out the above link. It is really good. One thing, i put in the numbers and the smaller wheel is saying the mileage will be less, not more. Going down to a 16 from 18, it says speedometer will read 60, but actual speed is 61.4.

It's the overall tire diameter/circumference that changes your overall gearing, not your wheel size... Are you altering the tire sizes in the calculator?

[leg2271]

Yes, i entered in the tire #s, and the wheel #s. the 16 inch wheel and tire are 47 mm larger in circumference. After reading the other post, i guess when he says wheel, he meant wheel and tire. my math came out to be the mileage listed will be 117 miles less than actual. This isnt a big deal, and even the speed is only off by 1.5 mph. my total miles being under reported is fine by me.

[Stavesacre21]

my bad, i figured it would be apparent that overall spinning circumference was what we were dealing with, which figures both the tires and the rims. Clearly rim size isn't as big of a deal if it's offset by a rediculously tall profile tire on a small rim.