Blew My welded diff...

[Jspeed17]

Yup...what the hell!!!! I built a beautiful motor just recently this past May, two weeks later chipped my 5th gear, now blew my Diff AGAIN....FML...

What can i do to strengthen the damn transmission again without spending Mad $$$$$$ ????? Grrrr...stupid MSP

[Outlawstar98]

o.0 You blew a welded one? That shouldn't happen. Must be bad welds.

[Jspeed17]

I got it from Ken at PG....his guy welded it....they looked pretty legit....idk, guess i'm just venting my frustration....

It was at the dragstrip, first run with new motor---in first gear even...no fun coasting down the 1/4 mile...lol...

[Captain KRM P5]

if you want to send me pics of the damage i'll take a look at it and if we need to do something, we will

[BlkWidow]

http://www.teammfactory.com/products.php?category=Helical%20LSD check these out, I got one from them in a GB, its at the bottom of the page for the g series

[Jspeed17]

if you want to send me pics of the damage i'll take a look at it and if we need to do something, we will

I appreciate the support Ken thanks!

[Jspeed17]

http://www.teammfactory.com/products.php?category=Helical%20LSD check these out, I got one from them in a GB, its at the bottom of the page for the g series

Wow thanks for the link man! I may check them out...first i need a used tranny, cuz the case cracked...lol

[Captain KRM P5]

I appreciate the support Ken thanks!

no problem. i'll look at the purchase date etc and see if it falls under some kind of warranty. never had one break honestly.

[TheMAN]

if you cracked the tranny case, broke gears, AND a welded diff
you either have way to much power, or you're driving like an idiot

[orng1]

You have to be very careful when you assemble the transmission.

[PlatinumMSP]

if you cracked the tranny case, broke gears, AND a welded diff
you either have way to much power, or you're driving like an idiot

true... either way I'd say you with the quaife and cryotreated gears if your having these large of problems.

[Jspeed17]

true... either way I'd say you with the quaife and cryotreated gears if your having these large of problems.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$(deadhorse

[orng1]

Either you are making to much power, drive like and idiot or someone assembled the trans wrong. What ever the case is it's going to cost money to get it back good again. If you are intending to make power or drive like an idiot spend the money to have it done right. I polished most of everything in the transmission by hand and then had it cryotreated while I was waiting for my Quaife to get in. Why not, I had the time and wanted it done right. It will cost you some to have that done but if you intend on making power you have to do it.

Get the gear set, the quaife and have it built right.

[Jspeed17]

<a href="http://s486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/?action=view&current=IMG00046-20090912-1739.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/IMG00046-20090912-1739.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
my buddy Joe is proud of the carnage....his machine shop built the motor...lol

<a href="http://s486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/?action=view&current=IMG00050-20090912-1749.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/IMG00050-20090912-1749.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/?action=view&current=IMG00051-20090912-1749.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/IMG00051-20090912-1749.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/?action=view&current=IMG00054-20090912-1751.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/IMG00054-20090912-1751.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/?action=view&current=IMG00055-20090912-1752.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/IMG00055-20090912-1752.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
welds still look good Ken

[Jspeed17]

AND the tranny case is cracked inside the bell housing....Gear oil all over my ACT clutch....

[Jspeed17]

if you cracked the tranny case, broke gears, AND a welded diff
you either have way to much power, or you're driving like an idiot

i was at the dragstrip. Of course i was driving like an idiot...lol
ANd yes it makes good power.

[Aricjm15]

I'm glad to see my welds held up, but holy shit man you really did a number on that thing.

[big Lou]

NO problems to date with my welded diff.Also bought from pg

[Speed3.5]

http://www.teammfactory.com/products.php?category=Helical%20LSD check these out, I got one from them in a GB, its at the bottom of the page for the g series

have you put it to work yet ?
How's it holding ?
what power your making ?

[SeR_Cyclops]

It looks like the welds are fine, you just broke the shit out of the LSD. How did you do that? I know of a 4XX hp msp and it has not even done that.

[vcinsanity1523]

wow dude unreal...... totally unreal...

[TheMAN]

the LSD didn't break, the ring gear and other gears did

there's plenty of ways to drive fast without breaking shit... being an idiot is not one of them
having an ACT clutch exacerbates things because it is so "catchy"... I've seen/told subaru guys that came in for an ACT clutch ALL the time that "hey it's a good clutch, but you got to be careful about taking off with it because it grabs easily"... guess what, a week later the car comes in on a wrecker and the input shaft and 1st/2nd gear is all stripped out

[orng1]

I hate subarus, evos too. Such a bitch to work on, sometimes wish we were back in the days when everyone wanted to turbo their single cams. You could get a new clutch into a single cam civic and have it on the road in a little over 3hrs.

[TheMAN]

hey some cars its possible to get that done in little over an hour!

[orng1]

My single cam motor and trans would always come out as one and disasembled on the floor and it all went back in 2-3hrs later. I was good but never able to do a clutch or transmission swap in under an hr. Closest I got was just under 3hrs from start to finish. My civic had a new motor in it sometimes 3 times a week, it was just a shop car running stupid amounts of nitrous.

[Captain KRM P5]

yeah, sorry i can't warranty that :(

[Jspeed17]

yeah, sorry i can't warranty that :(

Lol...i know...i assumed it was the diff before i ripped it apart-seemed like a familiar sound to me!!!! Haha...hey, any deals on tranny and clutch packages???!!!!!!!

[Jspeed17]

the LSD didn't break, the ring gear and other gears did

there's plenty of ways to drive fast without breaking shit... being an idiot is not one of them
having an ACT clutch exacerbates things because it is so "catchy"... I've seen/told subaru guys that came in for an ACT clutch ALL the time that "hey it's a good clutch, but you got to be careful about taking off with it because it grabs easily"... guess what, a week later the car comes in on a wrecker and the input shaft and 1st/2nd gear is all stripped out

Hmmmm....well i tried to ride out the clutch a bit off the line, but maybe i was a bit anxious...lol first track run in like two years

But i did get to take out my Dad's GTP Grand Prix---modded...can't screw up that run...lol 14.4@97mph...beat a WRX all the way down!

[CrazyCaker]

Nice.

And guys, it's not impossible to break a welded lsd. I destroyed a welded (ver. 1) msp lsd @ 14 psi on a MAM Thumper kit. The welds actually ended up taking chunks out of the housing and the ring gear! I wasn't surprised by the chunks missing out of the housing seeing as it's cheap cast shit, but seeing chunks out of the ring gear were the welds were blew my mind. Needless to say, I ended up going with an MFactory lsd this time around as welding anything cast is pretty damn pointless anyways in this type of application.

[JDM Sam]

Nice.

And guys, it's not impossible to break a welded lsd. I destroyed a welded (ver. 1) msp lsd @ 14 psi on a MAM Thumper kit. The welds actually ended up taking chunks out of the housing and the ring gear! I wasn't surprised by the chunks missing out of the housing seeing as it's cheap cast shit, but seeing chunks out of the ring gear were the welds were blew my mind. Needless to say, I ended up going with an MFactory lsd this time around as welding anything cast is pretty damn pointless anyways in this type of application.

+1, it'll rip the gear itself and the cast metal out of the crown itself. i've seen it destroy the synchro slider hubs and jam it all up.

Mfactory or Quaife are the ways to go.

[Jspeed17]

So i guess i'm going to get a Mfactory diff....anybody see any problems with these? Like em? Best thing for price instead of Quaife?
---------------------------------------
So far this year-
Forged motor $4,600
5th gear + hardware $80
Used tranny $500
Mfactory diff $669
rebuild used trans and install diff $200ish-
(thank god i know people)

MSP=money pit!!!!!!!

[Outlawstar98]

So far I didnt hear anything bad about the Mfactory Diff. But nothing good yet eaither.

[SeR_Cyclops]

Yeah I have not even heard of anyone putting one in a protege tranny that i know of.

[CrazyCaker]

Yeah I have not even heard of anyone putting one in a protege tranny that i know of.

Well now you know someone :)

I've had one installed for a few months. So far, it's an excellent product and holding up great. I have not dragged with it yet however, although I do drive 14 psi daily with it.

[SeR_Cyclops]

How do you think the quality is?

[CrazyCaker]

First impressions, very good. Fit, finish, etc. were all excellent. I have no problem recommending it. Their customer service was also very good.

[avarela86]

First impressions, very good. Fit, finish, etc. were all excellent. I have no problem recommending it. Their customer service was also very good.

what gears are you running with it?

[CrazyCaker]

Regular msp gears, forks, and synchros. No issues for the past few years with them, so figured why fix something that isn't broken... yet lol.

[mazpr]

Could it had been the pin that holds the diff inside, because it seemed as the outer casing was welded.

On the Mazda Proteges 1990-94 there is a small pin on the diff that must be welded when such mod is done or it will blow the tranny.

[Jspeed17]

Hey Crazy, does it come with a ring gear? cuz mine is f----'d....lol got a used tranny on the way from a 2001 Protege....could i use that one if i drill the rivets out?

[CrazyCaker]

It doesn't come with the ring gear, but you can use the ring gear from any G series tranny, they are the same regardless if the diff is an lsd or open type.

[SeR_Cyclops]

How do you get the ring gear off?

[SeR_Cyclops]

yeah I looked it up and I see you just drill the rivets.

[Jspeed17]

NICE! so i could still use my Revision2 diff that is welded!!!!! F'n A that'll save me quite a pretty penny.....just need a good hardware kit i suppose?

[JamesCH]

I wasn't surprised by the chunks missing out of the housing seeing as it's cheap cast shit, but seeing chunks out of the ring gear were the welds were blew my mind.

Welding changes the metal's micro structure and it is possible to severely degrade the metals strength in the heat affected zone around the weld, especially without heat-treating. The HAZ is where most welds fail.

It would be interesting to know which side failed first though...

[CrazyCaker]

Welding changes the metal's micro structure and it is possible to severely degrade the metals strength in the heat affected zone around the weld, especially without heat-treating. The HAZ is where most welds fail.

It would be interesting to know which side failed first though...

Yeah I was hoping it would have held up, just like most others who have welded it are hoping.

My guess would be the cast side, as not all the welds seperated on the ring gear side.

[Jspeed17]

To me it seemed that the pinion gear was the weak point in my trans explosion...

I'm in the process of drilling the ring gear rivets off and gonna grind my welds....

Here are some pics....

<a href="http://s486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/?action=view&current=utf-8BSU1HMDAwMDgtMjAwOTEwMzEtMTUxO.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMDgtMjAwOTEwMzEtMTUxO.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/?action=view&current=utf-8BSU1HMDAwMTAtMjAwOTEwMzEtMTUyM.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMTAtMjAwOTEwMzEtMTUyM.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/?action=view&current=utf-8BSU1HMDAwMDktMjAwOTEwMzEtMTUxO.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMDktMjAwOTEwMzEtMTUxO.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/?action=view&current=utf-8BSU1HMDAwMTEtMjAwOTExMDItMTYxO.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr222/jspeed17/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMTEtMjAwOTExMDItMTYxO.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[Jspeed17]

After drilling thru i just took a flat chisel to the rivet heads, popped them off, and then took a round punch and hammer to the rivets down and out of the gear.

The welds are gonna be a bitch!!! lol

[dandan2]

why are u even gonna mess with the welds? that makes no sense! leave them alone!

[Jspeed17]

lol...have u read this thread at all???

[dandan2]

woops! yah. just woke up! dont hate. lol

[GiJoe]

Wow. uh how much power are you outting down? do you know?

[JamesCH]

If it's possible you should gouge out all the welded material and then go a bit deeper so that the new welds (I assume you're going to re-weld) can penetrate deeper than the first ones.

[Jspeed17]

Not sure if i'm gonna re-weld....with ARP bolts do i have to?

[Jspeed17]

Wow. uh how much power are you outting down? do you know?

Not really sure....if i had to guess maybe 240-250whp range? Beat a MS3 from a dig hands down before i did this damage at the track....lol

[JamesCH]

Not sure if i'm gonna re-weld....with ARP bolts do i have to?

Unless you replace everything that was welded the parts will still be weakened by the HAZ from the first welding so it wouldn't change the material more than it already was. Also, unless you machine the welds off instead of grinding them you could unintentionally add some stress-risers where other cracks could start. A little nick from a grinder that has a "V" like profile is a great place for a crack to start.

If you're re-using any parts that were welded or will be hand-ground I'd recommend re-welding because of my experience in mechanical/automotive engineering and welding. I'm no MSP expert though.

[TiPapoute]

Holy sh**, you really raped the crap out of that LSD! First time I've seen one break that way.

[Jspeed17]

Unless you replace everything that was welded the parts will still be weakened by the HAZ from the first welding so it wouldn't change the material more than it already was. Also, unless you machine the welds off instead of grinding them you could unintentionally add some stress-risers where other cracks could start. A little nick from a grinder that has a "V" like profile is a great place for a crack to start.

If you're re-using any parts that were welded or will be hand-ground I'd recommend re-welding because of my experience in mechanical/automotive engineering and welding. I'm no MSP expert though.

Good point....a buddy of mine does run a machine shop, i could have him look at that...i am just re-using the diff though---the gear will be out of a used tranny with 40k on it

[JamesCH]

Good point....a buddy of mine does run a machine shop, i could have him look at that...i am just re-using the diff though---the gear will be out of a used tranny with 40k on it

Your machine shop buddy might want to grind the welds off with a surface grinder if possible, rather than use a mill or a lathe on the off-chance that there's any tungsten inclusions in the weld material. It gets really messy really quickly if a machine tool catches hold of a chunk of tungsten in a part. Though it's unlikely there are any inclusions, but it's still possible.