new to forum... squeeky brakes

[js1268]

hello folks,

well, i'm realizing that i'm not alone here with the squeeky brake problem on our Mazda 3s

when i bought the vehicle new in 2005, it sqeaked a bit...and it was truly tolerable

but, after 48k i finally changed front and rear pads and rotors...so, i got the Wagners from autozone... front and rear rotors, and ceramic pads

it's been 2 weeks and the squealing is unbelievable .... obviously, mostly in the morning... it'll diminish throughout the day, but it's still there

now, i obviously did a bit of research and saw that mazda had released a tech bulletin on the brakes ...something about filing down some edge ...???

my question is, if i buy the OEM pads from mazda will they already have the edges the TSB talks about already filed down to prevent the squealing...or should i remove the Wagners and resign myself to doing it to them?

any help would be greatly appreciated!

paul

[GoFast]

You may want to look in to a better alternative tot eh wagners such as hawk hps pads. They are low dust and very low noise.

check out protegegarage.com for some prices.

[GoFast]

oh yes...welcome to the forums!

[js1268]

thanks, 'GoFast'.....and thanks for the suggestion on brake pads!

i went to the website and they're definitely cheaper than the OE pads... it's a good looking pad, for sure... but is it the material that makes them low noise?.... if the backing plate is designed like the OE and Wagner pads, won't i have the same problem?

the noise is truly driving me bonkers

[GoFast]

I am sure the pad backing is slightly different. Have you tried coating it with the anti squeak spray? If not, you may want to pull the pads off and give them a quick coat of that and see if it alleviates your issues.

[js1268]

well, i didn't bother with the brake spray because the pads had the shims on them... I thought that's what the shims were for, no?

either way, they're coming off this weekend.... i'm gonna order the Hawk pads, regardless..

will keep you posted

[TheMAN]

these cars are really picky about brake pads
wagners aren't really that great, so I'm not surprised it squealed!
the only aftermarket pads I will ever buy for a mazda are akebonos (they are one of mazda's OE suppliers)

you should've brought your car in and complained about the brake noise when it was under warranty.... I got NEW updated pads on all 4 corners of my car because of this! ever since then, I've had zero issues with noise and the performance has been great too!

I'd get the OEM pads if you want to play it safe... you can also check if your car is an early build because the caliper brackets were different too

[GoFast]

I have to disagree with you on your limited choice of aftermarket brake pads there TheMAN. I personally have had great success with hawks, ebc's, and certain raybestos. On the 3 specifically the hawk hps' as I mentioned earlier have been nothing short of great. I personally would NOT recommend the OEMs (unless they were free)

I still say the OP tries some anti squeak first before paying any more money though.

[TheMAN]

hawks are performance pads

when I say aftermarket, I don't mean performance... they're a totally different category!

nothing is more annoying to me than thousands of people on these boards that think aftermarket = performance
the aftermarket stock replacement parts industry is many times bigger than the performance industry

it's clear this guy doesn't care about making his car fast or driving fast... he is like millions of others out there... he just want to fix the car with stock replacement parts and go on with life! why'd you think he got wagner pads instead of getting some ebc shit to begin with?
based on that analysis, I recommended him what I thought best for aftermarket stock replacements

[GoFast]

hawks are performance pads

when I say aftermarket, I don't mean performance... they're a totally different category!

nothing is more annoying to me than thousands of people on these boards that think aftermarket = performance
the aftermarket stock replacement parts industry is many times bigger than the performance industry

it's clear this guy doesn't care about making his car fast or driving fast... he is like millions of others out there... he just want to fix the car with stock replacement parts and go on with life! why'd you think he got wagner pads instead of getting some ebc shit to begin with?
based on that analysis, I recommended him what I thought best for aftermarket stock replacements

Hawk is not only "performance" They, like many other companies, have a product line that ranges from street to full on track. The HPS pads are a street pad that are designed to offer excellent stopping power with little noise and low dust. Their performance pads would the hp+ pads.

I can't speak for the guy like you apparently can but, I suspect he picked up some wagners because they were convenient and cheaper than stock. I also suspect he may not have considered a pad like the hawks because he didn't know they were an option.

While your option for OE replacement is a viable one, so is mine for the hawks. Rather than dismiss one because you don't agree with it or it annoys you, throw your option out there, tell him why you think those are good, and let HIM decide what he wants.

[js1268]

alright... after some thinking i've come to a few conclusions

the OE pads really served the vehicle well up to 48K miles... i mean, i ground these things into the plates and like i said, they squeeled, but ONLY in the morning and while braking out of the driveway... other than that, no problems

so, i've decided to go with the OE pads.... and rotors

i called a local mazda dealership and asked the service manager about the TSB on the pads... he said that the rear pads being sold now have been corrected and no filing is needed ... granted the OE pads are more expensive, but i don't want to take a chance on anything in the aftermarket, again.... especially with the experience i had with the Wagners- which are going back to Autozone

incidentally, TheMAN... vehicle has a date of 11/04... would this be considered an 'early build' for 2005? ....if so, what would it mean if I have the early caliper brackets?

[Speedkid]

Welcome to the forums.

[js1268]

thanks, "Speedkid"

i just picked up the OE rear pads and rotors this morning....doing the job saturday

will keep everyone posted, of course

[TheMAN]

Hawk is not only "performance" They, like many other companies, have a product line that ranges from street to full on track. The HPS pads are a street pad that are designed to offer excellent stopping power with little noise and low dust. Their performance pads would the hp+ pads.

I can't speak for the guy like you apparently can but, I suspect he picked up some wagners because they were convenient and cheaper than stock. I also suspect he may not have considered a pad like the hawks because he didn't know they were an option.

While your option for OE replacement is a viable one, so is mine for the hawks. Rather than dismiss one because you don't agree with it or it annoys you, throw your option out there, tell him why you think those are good, and let HIM decide what he wants.
they are a small company and even their street pads are "performance" compared to what you find at vatozone... they're probably better in terms of heat tolerance than many OEM pads too

so I will still consider any hawk pad performance pads

[TheMAN]

alright... after some thinking i've come to a few conclusions

the OE pads really served the vehicle well up to 48K miles... i mean, i ground these things into the plates and like i said, they squeeled, but ONLY in the morning and while braking out of the driveway... other than that, no problems

so, i've decided to go with the OE pads.... and rotors

i called a local mazda dealership and asked the service manager about the TSB on the pads... he said that the rear pads being sold now have been corrected and no filing is needed ... granted the OE pads are more expensive, but i don't want to take a chance on anything in the aftermarket, again.... especially with the experience i had with the Wagners- which are going back to Autozone

incidentally, TheMAN... vehicle has a date of 11/04... would this be considered an 'early build' for 2005? ....if so, what would it mean if I have the early caliper brackets?
yes you have an early build... keep an eye on your motor mount because the production didn't change to a better one until 1/05
the new pads should have special springs/clips at the back of it to help reduce squeeling... pad material have also changed to prevent noise... the updated pads produce less dust also

[uwtriguy]

So if I'm reading right the Hawks arent' going to work so well with an early '04 build? I bought it 6/04. Ir really just want to get these changed but there are so many damn choices. I don't know whether to laugh or buy one of the sets on ebay that is slotted and comes with pads (for the hell of it). I really just need to replace my pads and rotors for normal street driving to and from work.

Any help is grand.

Thanks in advance.

[GoFast]

So if I'm reading right the Hawks arent' going to work so well with an early '04 build? I bought it 6/04. Ir really just want to get these changed but there are so many damn choices. I don't know whether to laugh or buy one of the sets on ebay that is slotted and comes with pads (for the hell of it). I really just need to replace my pads and rotors for normal street driving to and from work.

Any help is grand.

Thanks in advance.

Not at all. The hawks will work great. The debate that myself and "THEMan" are having really about semantics on what is considered performance and what is aftermarket. Either way you will get good brakes that work quite well. If you want the hawks get em. The HPS are geared more for the street. I'll compromise with "THEMan" and call them aftermarket performance street.

[TheMAN]

cool! that's how I like to call them anyway :)

if you have an early 04, there is MORE the reason to check those caliper brackets.... if they don't have the extra damper taps on them, they will squeel no matter what pads you put in! the TSB will show you how to look at this... since the car is out of warranty now and if you have the craptastic brackets, there's nothing you can do other than to buy new ones at the dealer... it'll be hard to find these at any junk yard because the car is so new!

also, your car might not have those A/C defusers installed either, so the A/C might work poorly for you.... it's just an excuse to install cabin filters to your car! that'll make you feel better and cooler :D

[js1268]

TheMAN, do you know where i can find the TSB on the caliper brackets, or any direction on how to rectify the situation?

[GoFast]

check here...

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123744807

[js1268]

thanks, GoFast

[uwtriguy]

So in the EARLY 04 case (mine, crap) the Hawks pads and rotors may not be the best choice? I have never had a squeak or much of a grinding noise until now that they are almost toatly shot. Just a lot of rust build up after over night rain or sitting in humidity without driving for a while.

Thoughts on the Hawks vs going to the dealer for the TSB replacements?

Also never had problems with the AC but thanks for pointing out the possibility. Any known threads about installing the cabin filters?

Thanks again everyone!

[js1268]

i went to the dealer to get the OEs, 'uwtriguy' ..... i'm doing the job tomorrow at friend's garage with lift

i called autozone and they're gonna refund me for the Wagner pads and rotors

it's terribly obvious what's causing the squealing ..... on my car, if you look at the rear rotors.... there's about 3/4 of an inch of dull 'scarring' around the circumference of the rotor closest to the center area where the hub is....clearly, the pads aren't making consistent smooth contact on the rotor on this part of the pad... something's causing the pads to do this....it's identical on both sides

i'm gonna change the cabin air filter, as well.....A/C is horrible in vehicle...not sure where it is, but i'll find it i suspect

[uwtriguy]

Well now everybody has be scared that Hawk pads aren't going to fit in the calipers on an early 04 build. Called the dealer and they want twice as much for MAzda parts. Sheesh.

Next question is what a good, reliable, inexpensive replacement rotor is to match the Hawk or other pads? Pretty sure after 75,000miles on the original equipment the rotors could use a change.

Thanks as always.

[js1268]

whatever you do, uwtriguy... stay away from Wagner pads and rotors

[GoFast]

Well now everybody has be scared that Hawk pads aren't going to fit in the calipers on an early 04 build. Called the dealer and they want twice as much for MAzda parts. Sheesh.

Next question is what a good, reliable, inexpensive replacement rotor is to match the Hawk or other pads? Pretty sure after 75,000miles on the original equipment the rotors could use a change.

Thanks as always.

Here you go. Stay away from the slotted/drilled crap. make sure you get hte rotors and pads for the proper engine.

[uwtriguy]

Did I miss somwthing?

[GoFast]

Did I miss somwthing?

Don't know...what are you confused about?

[TheMAN]

check here...

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123744807
or they can just look in the FAQ that has way more than that thread

[TheMAN]

Well now everybody has be scared that Hawk pads aren't going to fit in the calipers on an early 04 build. Called the dealer and they want twice as much for MAzda parts. Sheesh.

Next question is what a good, reliable, inexpensive replacement rotor is to match the Hawk or other pads? Pretty sure after 75,000miles on the original equipment the rotors could use a change.

Thanks as always.
the pads are the same shape on ALL years and ALL engines
the issue are the caliper brackets in the early cars that causes noise

[GoFast]

or they can just look in the FAQ that has way more than that thread

OK....so post the link

[TheMAN]

its under every single one of my posts

[js1268]

okay, i checked the FAQ concerning the rear brake noise.... if you have a VIN that the last 8 digs are below '41131014'...then yes, you're gonna have a problem with your pads unless you modify (file down burs) on pads (part #BPYS-26-28X) and caliper brackets

however, if you your VIN is above this number -which mine is, at 51248250- then it simply involves changing the pads (P3YP-26-48Z) to the "modified" pads that Mazda sells ....same part number

...unless i'm misunderstanding something....but that's what it reads like, anyway

[js1268]

i wish i could send pics with my phone...but alas, i don't pay the cell phone bill....so i suffer without that feature....lol

anyway, there is a very obvious design change to the rear pads.... the original pads that came stock on the car and the subsequent aftermarket ones are designed with 'face' clips that fasten to the piston on the inboard side of the caliper

the new ones are absent these springs and now have a spring located at the top of the brake pads backing plate...the pad now simply 'sits' on the front of the inboard piston

furthermore, the OE rotors are different....there's only enough surface to account for pad contact....the Wagners had more face contact and caused the pad to rub an area that caused noise, as well

it's tough to explain....but suffice to say, there's no more noise.... =-) ....and i got my money back from autozone on the Wagner pads and rotors

i'm still getting noise from the front, however.... that's my next job.

i also installed the oil conversion kit for a spin on oil filter....very easy job...well worth it!

[uwtriguy]

Anybody have thoughts on Centric rotors -the plain ones without slots etc? They are listed along with Hawk pads on the Protegegarage.com site. Other options for plain old rotors for the rear? From the dealer is almost twice as much as the Centric.

[KCjohnny]

Anybody have thoughts on Centric rotors -the plain ones without slots etc? They are listed along with Hawk pads on the Protegegarage.com site. Other options for plain old rotors for the rear? From the dealer is almost twice as much as the Centric.

I will have some new user input on Centric and Hawk shortly. I had the following installed on my 2007 Mazda 3 i-touring sedan today:

- Centric Premium vented blank rotors
- Hawk Performance Plus brake pads
- Goodridge G-Stop stainless steel brake lines
- Ate Super Blue Racing brake fluid
- some non-brake stuff too (shady)

Being brand new, the pads are squealing like a stuck pig, but the HP+ are not known for being ultra-quiet. Another forum member's calmed down after a few hundred miles, I'm hoping for the same.

I replaced my OEM stock components which had 70,000 miles on them plus two track days. I could have gotten more wear out of them, but I didn't want to push my luck. I upgraded because of the track days and I want to get into autocrossing. All of the research I did said to go with vented blank rotors for this as oppossed to drilled/slotted etc. If you are only going to be on the street, then slotted/drilled are fine too.

Major Error turned me on to the Centric/Hawk setup. I'm running the car at another open track day tomorrow, should be a good test for OEM vs. my performance upgrade (glare)

[KCjohnny]

uwtriguy....

Today I ran the above mentioned brake set-up at an open track event. If you are looking for massive braking power, go with this set-up. Definitely an improvement over OEM rotors/pads/lines. Being more performance oriented, the Hawk HP+ pads become fairly quiet once they heat up on the track. They are now making a fraction of the noise they did before. Will see if that's true in the morning though....

[uwtriguy]

I ordered the Centric rear rotors (coated) and the Hawk HPS rear pads. Just normal, everyday city driving so I'll let you know how they go when they're on. Thanks for all of your input!

[lucaspl88]

im running a following set up
Rotora Blank coated rotors F+R
Axxis Ultimates pads F+R
ATP SS Lines
ATE superblue fluid

Huge improvement over stock, its just axxis ultimates are noisy, unless they warm up to a high temperature.
There is no fading brakes feeling at all.. even after crazy braking constantly.
They grip harder after every single attempt. even 80mph-5mph 10 times in a row makes them brake harder.
Brake dust is a - though. but i dont mind

[GoFast]

I ordered the Centric rear rotors (coated) and the Hawk HPS rear pads. Just normal, everyday city driving so I'll let you know how they go when they're on. Thanks for all of your input!

Good choice. You will be quite satisfied. Give em a few miles to bed properly for maximum performance. I know was skeptical for the first 50 or so miles but after that I was beyond impressed.

[lucaspl88]

btw guys, certain PADS require BRAKE IN PERIOD.
for example axxis ultimates require you to do 40mph-5mph braking till brakes fade, then let them cool down to outside temperature (they WILL LITERALLY SMOKE WHEN YOU STOP to cool them down )

[KCjohnny]

btw guys, certain PADS require BRAKE IN PERIOD.
for example axxis ultimates require you to do 40mph-5mph braking till brakes fade, then let them cool down to outside temperature (they WILL LITERALLY SMOKE WHEN YOU STOP to cool them down )

I broke mine in the best way possible - stomped on the brakes at 100 MPH at the end of 2 straightaways....over and over and over again during an open track event. I highly recommend it :D

[thorracing271]

I broke mine in the best way possible - stomped on the brakes at 100 MPH at the end of 2 straightaways....over and over and over again during an open track event. I highly recommend it :D

Could this have "glazed" The rotor and pads and made it worse?

[KCjohnny]

Could this have "glazed" The rotor and pads and made it worse?

No, I don’t believe so. The garage that worked on my car assured me that they bedded the pads in properly for me, as they knew I was going to the track the next day. I’m confident in their work in that regard, as they are a racing-centered garage. I had massive brake squeal that first day with the car, but drove it around and continued to break in the pads over the next 24 hours of daily driving. The track took care of the squealing – what normally takes 100’s of street-driving miles to do, I did in 90 miles at the track. I still get a little squealing at slow speeds, but nothing like when I first drove it.

Whatever you do, DON’T do this – put brand new pads on your car while you are at the track, do no bedding in or warming up whatsoever, then enter the track at its longest straight-away and get your car up to well over 100 MPH before hitting your first turn, a sharp left. I watched a Lotus Elise driver do that, and when he hit the brakes hard for the turn, the brakes completely locked up sending him into a tire smoking 360 spin. He was lucky – there was no wall there, and the caravan of cars behind him all stopped in time.

[uwtriguy]

How awesome is this? I ordered my parts from Protege Garage (which took 2 WEEKS to get in). Go to change my pads and rotors.... wrong pads! Mazda made two different pads and PG is only selling one of them. I called Hawk to confirm and they said even the VIN won't be for sure on which you need. Frickin' Awesome.

[lucaspl88]

different brake pads have different brake in procedures.
as far as different pads.. rear pads differ... spring or no spring... HAWK makes both.. trust me !!!

[uwtriguy]

I know Hawk makes both. I called them. Protege Garage doesn't seem to sell both.

[KCjohnny]

How awesome is this? I ordered my parts from Protege Garage (which took 2 WEEKS to get in). Go to change my pads and rotors.... wrong pads! Mazda made two different pads and PG is only selling one of them. I called Hawk to confirm and they said even the VIN won't be for sure on which you need. Frickin' Awesome.

See my post below, I put this up a few weeks back:

Correct Hawk HPS Brake Pad Rear Part #???

Can anyone please tell me the correct Hawk High Performance Street rear brake pad part number to run on a 2007 Mazda 3 2.0L i-touring sedan? I am getting conflicting information from various sources.
Most dealers list it as:
HB571F.605
I was told this was incorrect, an error on Hawk's data center, and that the correct pad is:
HB478F.605
I have no idea which is correct now, especially since the HB478F.605 is listed as for model years 2004-2006 only. Can anyone set the record straight?

Follow-up post:
If anyone has the answer to this, please post for future reference.
I ended up getting Hawk Performance Plus pads instead.

SOOOOO, send them back and try the HB478F.605

[uwtriguy]

Really had no choice but to replace the pads this weekend. Looked around and ended up with Brake Best Select from O'Reilly. Seem to be working just fine for what I need. Ultra quiet and plenty of stop. Anybody need a set of Hawk HB748F.605 for the rear? I'll sell 'em for $55 and ship for free. Never installed. PM me.

[js1268]

just got around to replacing the front pads and rotors i got from Mazda to replace the Wagner pads and rots i put on about 2 months ago

....absolute silence

i'm happy ..... =-)