Need help!!!

[03silverproto]

ok well i posted this in a different section of the forum and didnt get much feedback so im gonna try it again in this section here we go:


alright so last week i put a turbo on the protege, and haven't had any problems with it until last night. so on my way home from work i took it on the highway to show a friend the new upgrade. while im only boosting 7 lbs i got up to 90 and let off the gas and we r just coasting then maybe 5 seconds after i let off i went to pass someone (just so we could here the BOV go off right next the the other car ) nothing happened. i mean nothing the car had died. didnt hear a boom, bang, clunk, nothing. i looked at the gages and the RPM gauge wasnt working and the temp gauge went to hot (like pegged out) so we rolled bout 1\2 a mile to the side of the road ** note while i was rolling i tried to put it in gear and pop the clutch to see if it would start ... nope! just would turn the engine over). so we i get to the side of the road i popped the hood and no smoke, no oil to be seen. nothing out of the norm. had it towed home and called my local Mazda dealer and talked a mech. and told him what had happened, he said that my timing belt busted ... so this morning i took off the valve cover to take a peek.. timing belt is still intact and has tension.. so then i thought it would have been my ECU (which i changed to a mazdaspeed ECU) so i switched it with the NA one i still have ... nope nothing the tempo gague goes to hot and another thing i noticed when i turn the key i cant here the fuel pump like i used to ... now im back to square one .. does anybody have any ideas???

MODS
t3\t4 turbo
obx manifold
tail 38mm wastegate set @ 7lbs
hks BOV
MBC
mazdaspeed ECU
3in exhaust
custom intercooler piping
626 mani

any ideas would help i need my car back !!
thanx,
dillon

[Metallic36]

Bad thermostat, water pump, blown head gasket, fact that there is no EMS, alternator, battery, etc.

[zoom 79gc]

Just a idea, but Really check your timing belt. you might have ate up some on the teeth on the belt.this would make the belt look like it is still on, and with tension but you need to look at where the belt and crank pulley connect each other. I have seen this problem on a lot of cars running belts. Not saying this is it but check that belt again

[boostdprotegelx]

FUSES. check main fuses and fuel pump fuses.. anything associated with ignition/fuel.

[03silverproto]

are those fuses under the hood or inside the car?

[boostdprotegelx]

both.

[03silverproto]

AWESOME!! i found out which fuse is was and now it runs . . but everytime i boost that fuse pops ... any ideas?

[boostdprotegelx]

you're running the msp ecu correct? hmm.. which fuse is it?

[03silverproto]

right ... its the 10amp engine fuse .. its in the fuse box inside the car

[Wagonbacker9]

well you could go to a bigger fuse... but you risk frying the wiring. up to 15 shouldn't hurt anything (I take no responsibility if it does). did you do any wire splicing in the install? if so go recheck all of it for shorts. also, are you sure 10 amps is the factory rating for that fuse? check against the lid. a lower amperage one may have been swapped in at some point?

[boostdprotegelx]

it seems to me that the starter is going.well. it has signs of this as the issue.. starters going bad/bad can pop the engine fuse.

but.. could it be that the car needs some kinda ems?

[03silverproto]

wagon- the only wire splicing i did was to connect my gauges, and i wired them all up to the radio fuse. and yes it is supposed to have a 10 amp bc it says 10 amp on that little plastic cover. i dont know what eles it could be .. ive gone through 5 fuses.

boostd- does the starter pull amps even when the car is running? thats when the fuses are popping. and that the next thing im going to get is an EMS ... any suggestions? im on a tight budget.

thanks

[Alamo1]

The starter shouldn't ever be drawing current unless the solenoid is engaged. that means the key would have to be on start position or the ignition be faulty and shorting. You should call the dealer and see what that fuse actually runs, so as to better see what or where your problem can be.

Like Wagonbacker says, try a 15 and see if it still blows.... if so then somethign is drawing a hell of a lot of current, as to the usual ... < 10. This is interesting as I'm gonna be doing turbo sometime next fall.

[03silverproto]

my thoughts are with you one the starter ^^^ .. but i will try the 15amp fuse, what are the chances of frying some of the wires (stated in an earlier post) if i put the 15 in?

[Alamo1]

I ran a lot of large and shady stereos in shadier cars in my younger years. A 15 shouldn't fry anything but I'd just do it to check. Don't use it as a band-aid. Just test the problem and see how much current you're drawing. If it doesn't pop a 15 you probably only have a minor problem. And like wagonbacker I take no responsibility for ill favored outcomes.

[Wagonbacker9]

my thoughts are with you one the starter ^^^ .. but i will try the 15amp fuse, what are the chances of frying some of the wires (stated in an earlier post) if i put the 15 in?

I second damage being unlikely, another 5 amps shouldn't allow any catastrophic wire melting... i would use it as a test. I'm guessing if you boost it it'll pop again, which means something in your setup is overdrawing current, or shorting in boost somehow.

[GG RACING]

I don't know if this is it but if you go to speedcircuit.net they sell an o2 signal voltage clamp that they say is used for regular protege's to boost. Your o2 sensor might be reading too much voltage.

[Wagonbacker9]

this isn't a sensor reading voltage, its too much amperage being drawn through the circuit.

[GG RACING]

You say it is'nt a sensor reading too much voltage but a circuit drawing too much amperage. Well if the the sensor reads too much voltage then it will be sending too much amperage to the ecu hence blowing the ecu fuse. Think before you speak. This situation is why that part was created by the guys at speed circuit. Think about it what sensor send signal to the ecu, the o2 sensor, the maf, coolant temp, crank and cam angle sensors, and there are more. If one of those overloads thier signal to the ecu what blows? a fuse and it ends up being the ecu fuse. So unless you are using the stock na protege maf and the ecu doesn't like it enough to read it to the point where you have to get a msp maf then i wouldn't dismiss any other options especialy when you don't understand electronics.

[Wagonbacker9]

You say it is'nt a sensor reading too much voltage but a circuit drawing too much amperage. Well if the the sensor reads too much voltage then it will be sending too much amperage to the ecu hence blowing the ecu fuse. Think before you speak. This situation is why that part was created by the guys at speed circuit. Think about it what sensor send signal to the ecu, the o2 sensor, the maf, coolant temp, crank and cam angle sensors, and there are more. If one of those overloads thier signal to the ecu what blows? a fuse and it ends up being the ecu fuse. So unless you are using the stock na protege maf and the ecu doesn't like it enough to read it to the point where you have to get a msp maf then i wouldn't dismiss any other options especialy when you don't understand electronics.

Clearly, you don't understand as much about electrical theory (or the ECU harness) as you believe. I'm not saying its impossible, just VERY unlikely. As for my electrical knowledge, I used to work in the engineering lab for Briggs and Stratton Power Products Division, where my primary tasks were the building, prototyping, performance and endurance testing of generators. Both home standby, and portable.

Think of voltage like PSI in an air line, and think of amperage like CFM in the same air line... just because you bump the PSI up (turn up the regulator), doesn't mean you're increasing the amount if air flowing in the line (assume the air tool only requires 40 cfm to run, doesn't matter if you can supply 90, it only draws 40). One can vary, while the other stays exactly the same. same follows for electricity, and even assuming the sensor voltage were to increase above stock/normal, all that is is a reading to the ECU. the ECU supplies that voltage (and amperage for that matter) to the sensor, and reads the difference between the sent signal (constant), and the received signal (reading from sensor), to determine engine operation. The sensor is essentially a resistor which changes the flow of electricity allowed based on conditions present at the sensor's pickup, so blaming a high sensor reading for an abnormally high amperage draw is one of the LAST things I would suspect. FAR more likely that something is shorting out, or that the ECU is being overworked/overheated due to whatever conditions in the tune are not getting along with boost.

without an intimate knowledge of the programming, as well as about 10 volt/amp/ohm meters it would be very difficult to pinpoint in a timely fashion.

I suggest you read up some more before you A) go shooting your mouth off, and B) try to call me out like that.

[xDJ DUBx]

(evil)

[GG RACING]

You know I may not have an intimate knowledge of electricity but I do have an extensive knowledge of cars and the reason I suggested that is because I speak from experience. For you to say it's not a sensor related issue sounds pretty dumb to me because he said when he hits boost the fuse blows. Now how would the fuse know to blow. Too much power went through it, and why did this happen, the ecu got overstimulated, by what you ask, a sensor because how does the ecu function and recieve signals from sensors because if you look under your hood you have a lot of sensors. That is how the ecu knows what is going on. So before you go and over complicate things for this guy with your big talk and big words remember its always something simple.

This is for the guy who started the thread. Ok buddy when you installed the turbo kit did you do any wiring whatsoever, even if it was very minor. Check and make sure you did it right and find out what all the wires do that you touched.(i say this because I see a lot of people just reading instructions off the internet and just matching the colors they read off not knowing what they do). If the wiring is ok the go ahead and contact the guys at speedcircuit.net and ask them about their o2 signal voltage clamp and let them know your problem. If that doesn't work look into changing your MAF to a MSP MAF, I'm not sure if they are different or not but on dsm's you have to change it and also on nissan's.

Oh and by the way I think it's amazing how no matter what forum you on, the talent you can find on these forums is amazing, everyone is an engineer or a scientist or the president. Whenever anyone's knowledge on a subject is questioned all of the sudden they are somone important.

Oh and by the by I do this for a living. I'm a tuner for GG performance and I deal with anything electrical that comes in. So go ahead and continue to tell these people I don't know what I'm talking about, because you used to make engines for lawn mowers, while I do this everyday for a living. Come to think of it I think I do know something about chassis elctronics but that something is very small.

[xDJ DUBx]

Obama is on this forum? Where you at dawg!?

gg performance? (scratch)

[Wagonbacker9]

if you're honestly in charge of troubleshooting electrical problems and your solution is a O2 clamp... i pity your customers. There are applications where that is necessary, and there are applications where that is just masking the problem.

Assuming there are no shorts, and I can't come up with a good reason a short would only show up under boost, my best guess is that the injectors are staying open longer under boost. This is requiring more energy to be drawn by the ECU circuit (i'm assuming they're powered by that circuit, though definitely not sure)... causing the fuse to pop. Hopefully I'm right and upping to a 15 amp fuse is enough to drive the injectors without popping anything important...

or, you can just try O2 claming the car, seeing as my bet is your O2 readings are within normal operation ranges anyway, it will change nothing.

[Alamo1]

I love these flaming matches... (flame)


Obama is on this forum? Where you at dawg!?

gg performance? (scratch) LOL!

It's interesting that both schools of though come out and there is now some definite things to try... Let us know how the guess and test goes...

Was there any wires with your turbo kit that you had to connect to different points in the engine bay or to the fuse box? Have a look at all the ends of the connections and see if any have jumped off or may be loose and could be touching wire to metal.... It may just be that during boost and the extra torque, a wire may be too short or getting pulled funny...

And on with the flameshow! (direct)

[03silverproto]

whoa! that was intense!! (bicker)(bicker) but very interesting

GG- the only wiring i did was for my gauges, which i ran a power wire from the radio (acc) fuse. i got the prosport gauges so when i turn my headlights on they turn green and i wired that up to the dim switch. i have a MSP ECU (until i can get a another EMS) so i dont think that the ECU would be that cause since it is programmed to see boost.

Alamo- when i wired it all up i used heat shrink over the connectors just so what you said could happen ... wouldnt happen ... bc i didnt want to take the chance and have something go wrong ..... ummmm too late i guess lol

[03silverproto]

and wagon i got a 15 amp fuse and im gonna go out and put it in and see how everything burns down!!... i mean goes down!! (knocks on wood)

[Wagonbacker9]

i'm not getting intense, just presenting what I believe and the things which support it. let me go check my ECU fuse quick.. 10 amp.

[03silverproto]

im just messin with ya!

[03silverproto]

i know that your not taking responsibility for changing the fuse, i get that ... but would you do it on your car? use a 15amp?

[Wagonbacker9]

im just messin with ya!
I getcha, no worries, I'm just sayin, I'm not stressin about it and not tryin to start a fight. just presenting what i thought might be goin on.


i know that your not taking responsibility for changing the fuse, i get that ... but would you do it on your car? use a 15amp?

yes. i have done it when I added load to a circuit and blew a fuse.

[03silverproto]

gotcha! .. well im gonna go and try the 15 amp real quick .. and take a couple of other fuses along just in case it does pop then i have a way home!!

[Wagonbacker9]

gotcha! .. well im gonna go and try the 15 amp real quick .. and take a couple of other fuses along just in case it does pop then i have a way home!!

i'm betting it still pops. I think theres something else goin on. but hey, fingers crossed for you.

[mzspeed14.0]

the suspense is killing me... (eek2) we'll be back after this commercial break....

[mazdaspeedp]

lol what commercial break? did u say you had a regular protege maf? cuz if you do i vet thats what is fuckin everything up or maybe your alternator is shitty

[Wagonbacker9]

i'm just gonna leave this alone til we've got more to work with... no point.

[03silverproto]

okay the 15 didnt pop . . and i didnt know that the reg proteges MAF was diff. than the MSP's.

but anyways after a few quick runs, the 15 didnt pop but it was running like shit! i mean hesitation all throughout the power band. and i know that an ECU problem but its almost worth going back to a 10 and not boosting bc that 15 was awful!

[03silverproto]

lol what commercial break? did u say you had a regular protege maf? cuz if you do i vet thats what is fuckin everything up or maybe your alternator is shitty
yeah i was thinkin that the other day ...

[Alamo1]

I'd do it... 5 extra amps shouldn't be enough to start a fire or melt wire coatings... maybe 30 or 40 amp. If you're really worried about it you could take it somewhere but they'd charge and arm, leg and maybe your left ... !

I still say consult the manual and look to see what would be connected to that fuse... the trouble shooting section should have fuse related issues in it.

[Alamo1]

Wow... this is alot more complicated than it seems!

[Wagonbacker9]

Wow... this is alot more complicated than it seems!

for sure.

[Alamo1]

Ok! here's what the manual says! Engine fuse popping is from...
ignition coil
condenser
heated oxygen sensor
main relay
cooling fan relay
malfunction indicator lamp
ta dah!

[mazdaspeedp]

the mazdaspeed maf is definatley different from the regular protege maf cuz it has to measure the compressor air going in which is extra 5psi at least but it should work fine if you put in a msp maf since you have the msp ecu allready but if i were you i would upgrade all the ignition coils too and the plugs and wires try to get the hot wires or even ngks work ok

[Wagonbacker9]

the mazdaspeed maf is definatley different from the regular protege maf cuz it has to measure the compressor air going in which is extra 5psi at least but it should work fine if you put in a msp maf since you have the msp ecu allready but if i were you i would upgrade all the ignition coils too and the plugs and wires try to get the hot wires or even ngks work ok

stock, the MAF isn't located on the boost tubes. it simply just flows more than the non turbo MAF... assuming they can both read the amount of air flowing, and provide the same voltage, either will work. this is where the question is, and off hand, I don't know the answer.

[Alamo1]

Personally I'd try the things on the list that came out of the manual. But I've not yet owned a turbo car so what do I know?

[Wagonbacker9]

Personally I'd try the things on the list that came out of the manual. But I've not yet owned a turbo car so what do I know?

the manual outlines the common problems with load on the circuit.... best idea I've seen...

[Alamo1]

the manual outlines the common problems with load on the circuit.... best idea I've seen...

I really appreciate that. On all my previous cars, if I had a manual I was in pretty good shape, though the haynes manuals give you an idiots how to so you could do anything in your sleep.

[Wbriggs19061]

bumping this old this to see what the outcome was? my N/A 1.8L just did this yesterday afternoon...sorry i bumped the other thread too that no one replied to.