boost problems... maybe turbo's going out?

[Jdizzle659]

So i'm tuned at 18psi and when I go WOT in 3rd gear at 40mph my boost spikes at 20psi and instantly goes down to 16psi then to 15psi then back up to 16psi then back to 15psi and so on all the way to redline and does same thing in 4th. Car feels like it is getting slower and slower. After about 75mph right when i go into 4th there is a huge loss of power... I go from 40-75mph faster than 75mph to 85mph. Way faster. Any ideas? I have 0 knock, afrs are holding right around 12 the entire time, and while spraying co2 on stock tmic- boost air temp through 3rd gear starting at 115degrees goes down to 107 by redline and 4th gear starting at 115 goes up to 135(I know temperature is rising but 135degrees still isn't that hot... maybe the turbo is just blowing really hot air by that time making me think turbo could be going out)

[coyfish]

What tune are you running. Could be many things but it doesn't seem like your turbo is going bad. Are you running the stock bpv ?? maybe boost leak . . .

[Jdizzle659]

What tune are you running. Could be many things but it doesn't seem like your turbo is going bad. Are you running the stock bpv ?? maybe boost leak . . .

custom tune @ cobb with accessport. Stock electronic boost controller is controlling the boost. Yeah i have the stock bpv but it is a new one with only 2 to 3,000 miles on it, and wouldn't it spike really high with boost leak. thanks for the response

[Jdizzle659]

What tune are you running. Could be many things but it doesn't seem like your turbo is going bad. Are you running the stock bpv ?? maybe boost leak . . .

My guess is bad tune. what's your opinion on that one?

[onelsono]

id get rid of that stock valve and see wut happens, when i put my stock valve on one time for shits and giggles the car felt sooo slow.. runnin forge and no problems, spikes 22 and holds 20

[Jdizzle659]

id get rid of that stock valve and see wut happens, when i put my stock valve on one time for shits and giggles the car felt sooo slow.. runnin forge and no problems, spikes 22 and holds 20

what's your opinion on the turboxs bpv? I could get one for free right now

[cpolly69]

sounds like you've got boost oscillation - the factory system isn't really an electronic control it's just vacuum/bleed control system with a simple solenoid - it's prob you spraying the c02 throwing the ecu for a loop - when you were tuned were you spraying? you're tuning was done with the boost being regulated at 18? which is really spiking somewhere higher and leveling out at 18? - i'd try switching to a real electronic boost control or if you can't afford that go to a regular manual boost controller and getting a tune done with that

[coyfish]

Could be a bad tune but who knows. How bout getting a datalog on here when you can?

[Jdizzle659]

sounds like you've got boost oscillation - the factory system isn't really an electronic control it's just vacuum/bleed control system with a simple solenoid - it's prob you spraying the c02 throwing the ecu for a loop - when you were tuned were you spraying? you're tuning was done with the boost being regulated at 18? which is really spiking somewhere higher and leveling out at 18? - i'd try switching to a real electronic boost control or if you can't afford that go to a regular manual boost controller and getting a tune done with that

When I'm not spraying co2 all the conditions remain the same except the temperatures are higher. Boost is completely uneffected. I've been having this problem for months... I just thought it was the intercooler not being able to keep up. The spray is not the problem

[Jdizzle659]

Could be a bad tune but who knows. How bout getting a datalog on here when you can?

i don't know how to put datalogs on. I've always tried. can i email it to you?

[cpolly69]

well the k04's surgeline is 18psi -after that you are just blowing hot air - so spraying to make it cooler is a cheaper way to push it past it's limits - i'd say taking it down to 17 and tuning from there would be a good idea - if you want more boost you should get a better turbo - all i can tell from what you have said is that some factor your ecu is seeing is causing the oscillation - or you have parts physically malfunctioning (vac lines that control the boost or like you said the turbo)

[cpolly69]

i don't know how to put datalogs on. I've always tried. can i email it to you?

pm sent for posting datalogs

[Jdizzle659]

pm sent for posting datalogs

said error and couldn't get it. thanks though

[Jdizzle659]

well the k04's surgeline is 18psi -after that you are just blowing hot air - so spraying to make it cooler is a cheaper way to push it past it's limits - i'd say taking it down to 17 and tuning from there would be a good idea - if you want more boost you should get a better turbo - all i can tell from what you have said is that some factor your ecu is seeing is causing the oscillation - or you have parts physically malfunctioning (vac lines that control the boost or like you said the turbo)

i just remembered that when i used to have a manual boost controller on the hoses stretched a little to get on and the clamps don't do shit. Could that be a definite possibility?

[cpolly69]

if those are leaking you boost would be all over the place

[Jdizzle659]

if those are leaking you boost would be all over the place

how bad all over the place. like 5 to 16 to 7 to 14?

[onelsono]

what's your opinion on the turboxs bpv? I could get one for free right now

i havent herd problems wih turbo-xs, but ive herd alot of problems with the greddy.. any good valve is better than the stocker, forge hks turbosmart, turbo-xs all seem to be good, synapps is prob the best vta vlave our for the speeds, runs perfect thats if u want a vta

[MSMS3]

i havent herd problems wih turbo-xs, but ive herd alot of problems with the greddy.. any good valve is better than the stocker, forge hks turbosmart, turbo-xs all seem to be good, synapps is prob the best vta vlave our for the speeds, runs perfect thats if u want a vta

Respectfully disagree. I'm running stock BPV with catless DP/RP and CAI for more than a year and it holds boost beautifully. But if I were to consider an aftermarket BPV, it would be the Turbosmart pure BPV. I am on stock tune and not trying to push boost above stock level, though. If I can hit 0-100 mph in 11.5 seconds and run the quarter in 13.4 -13.5 (which I do), I have no reason to go around crapping on stock BPV's.

Cpolly's advice to OP is right on target, though, especially taking boost back to about 17 psi. Look for boost leak somewhere. Post the datalogs. I don't think this has anything to do with the turbo mechanically.

[coyfish]

Respectfully disagree. I'm running stock BPV with catless DP/RP and CAI for more than a year and it holds boost beautifully. But if I were to consider an aftermarket BPV, it would be the Turbosmart pure BPV. I am on stock tune and not trying to push boost above stock level, though. If I can hit 0-100 mph in 11.5 seconds and run the quarter in 13.4 -13.5 (which I do), I have no reason to go around crapping on stock BPV's.

Cpolly's advice to OP is right on target, though, especially taking boost back to about 17 psi. Look for boost leak somewhere. Post the datalogs. I don't think this has anything to do with the turbo mechanically.

Nothing to disagree about. The stocker is a piece of plastic. Some hold boost fine while others leak practically brand new. Nothing wrong with the valve but it is plastic (cheaper) and may leak. I installed a forge on my practically brand new car and i held 2 psi higher consistantly. Some stockers are fine and others leak but its obvious that most aftermarket bpv's are superior quality and won't leak.

[Jdizzle659]

Respectfully disagree. I'm running stock BPV with catless DP/RP and CAI for more than a year and it holds boost beautifully. But if I were to consider an aftermarket BPV, it would be the Turbosmart pure BPV. I am on stock tune and not trying to push boost above stock level, though. If I can hit 0-100 mph in 11.5 seconds and run the quarter in 13.4 -13.5 (which I do), I have no reason to go around crapping on stock BPV's.

Cpolly's advice to OP is right on target, though, especially taking boost back to about 17 psi. Look for boost leak somewhere. Post the datalogs. I don't think this has anything to do with the turbo mechanically.

i don't know how to post datalogs.... i've tried many times. I don't have money for retune and taking it back to 17psi, but what about using a manual one to force it to 17psi?

[Jdizzle659]

Nothing to disagree about. The stocker is a piece of plastic. Some hold boost fine while others leak practically brand new. Nothing wrong with the valve but it is plastic (cheaper) and may leak. I installed a forge on my practically brand new car and i held 2 psi higher consistantly. Some stockers are fine and others leak but its obvious that most aftermarket bpv's are superior quality and won't leak.

you ever notice that it is really jerky with aftermarket bovs when you shift at a certain boost level? like 4 to 6 psi. Mine always jerks really hard with the turboxs and the hks ssq which is why i have stock on there

[MSMS3]

i don't know how to post datalogs.... i've tried many times. I don't have money for retune and taking it back to 17psi, but what about using a manual one to force it to 17psi?

With respect, you need to solve your problem first. Using a different bandaid to stop the bleeding does not fix the reason you are bleeding (pun intended).

I'd be scared as hell to go to a MBC not knowing why I have a problem. Identify it and fix it, then if you want to run an MBC, that's cool.

Locate the leak. Check all connections carefully - tubes and hoses.

Somebody help him again on how to upload his datalogs.

[Jdizzle659]

With respect, you need to solve your problem first. Using a different bandaid to stop the bleeding does not fix the reason you are bleeding (pun intended).

I'd be scared as hell to go to a MBC not knowing why I have a problem. Identify it and fix it, then if you want to run an MBC, that's cool.

Locate the leak. Check all connections carefully - tubes and hoses.

Somebody help him again on how to upload his datalogs.

I agree i'd like to solve the problem, but if it's the tuning(which is a very good chance i think) then wouldn't that solve it? I lean towards tuning because it took cobb 3 times of me coming back and putting it on the dyno before the car would even run right out of boost on their tuning. My lower boost tuning doesn't even work at all. When i shift to 5th or 6th the car almost dies on that tuning. I should have mentioned this right away, but i really didn't want to make cobb look bad because they were really nice and i could tell felt bad that they were fucking up.

I've checked thousands of times for boost leak... i just don't see that being it, and wouldn't it spike really high with a boost leak?

[Jdizzle659]

With respect, you need to solve your problem first. Using a different bandaid to stop the bleeding does not fix the reason you are bleeding (pun intended).

I'd be scared as hell to go to a MBC not knowing why I have a problem. Identify it and fix it, then if you want to run an MBC, that's cool.

Locate the leak. Check all connections carefully - tubes and hoses.

Somebody help him again on how to upload his datalogs.

I have checked the intercooler hoses which are fine, the hoses to the actual boost controller are fine, and the bpv lines are all fine. Am I missing any?

[Jdizzle659]

With respect, you need to solve your problem first. Using a different bandaid to stop the bleeding does not fix the reason you are bleeding (pun intended).

I'd be scared as hell to go to a MBC not knowing why I have a problem. Identify it and fix it, then if you want to run an MBC, that's cool.

Locate the leak. Check all connections carefully - tubes and hoses.

Somebody help him again on how to upload his datalogs.

can i get your email to email you datalog? It would really help me out

[matsuda]

the factory system isn't really an electronic control it's just vacuum/bleed control system with a simple solenoid

Wrong.

The boost control is a closed loop system controlled by the ECU (which is no different than any other electronic boost control).

[matsuda]

To the OP:

So far, no one has mentioned the obvious:

Can you monitor the WG duty at WOT?

That will tell you where the boost is relative to where the ECU wants it to be.
It is the best way to check for a leak or other problem.

[MSMS3]

can i get your email to email you datalog? It would really help me out

I don't have a Dash Hawk. I was suggesting that someone with one help you with the download. I can probably read the data, but I don't claim to be an expert in some of the parameters it can measure.

It is beginning to sound like your tune is screwed up. I'd still be afraid to go to an MBC blind without knowing what's really going on. Are you throwing any CEL codes? I guess you would have told us if so.

Someone help him with his logs. I assume they are either saved in some format that can be posted here, or there is a conversion utility that will allow them to be posted.

Help the guy out, please with the getting his logs out here so they can be reviewed from several perspectives.

[onelsono]

Respectfully disagree. I'm running stock BPV with catless DP/RP and CAI for more than a year and it holds boost beautifully. But if I were to consider an aftermarket BPV, it would be the Turbosmart pure BPV. I am on stock tune and not trying to push boost above stock level, though. If I can hit 0-100 mph in 11.5 seconds and run the quarter in 13.4 -13.5 (which I do), I have no reason to go around crapping on stock BPV's.

Cpolly's advice to OP is right on target, though, especially taking boost back to about 17 psi. Look for boost leak somewhere. Post the datalogs. I don't think this has anything to do with the turbo mechanically.

no disrespect, but if youve never tryed another valve u wouldnt no if theirs a dif or not, i have a forge and put my stock on for a day just cause i had nothing better to do an the car felt sooo slow, any valve is better than the plastic stocker, and y u wanna run 13's all day man, get that thing to be a 12sec car, u can run a 13.8, 13.9 bone stock.. when mines done ill run high to mid 12's all day on stock turbo. =]

[coyfish]

Why not try a generic map off the cobb website?? Or revert back to stock ?? You have a cobb ap . . . why do you have to pay to get your stock map back ?

[cpolly69]

Wrong.

The boost control is a closed loop system controlled by the ECU (which is no different than any other electronic boost control).

ok granted - the factory setup is electronics controlling a solenoid - but to say it's no different then any other ebc is a bit of a stretch - there's a variety of ebcs that use stepper motors, dual solenoids, fuzzy logic, and have a ton of features that the factory setup doesn't - the factory setup is much less precise then a high end ebc

[Jdizzle659]

To the OP:

So far, no one has mentioned the obvious:

Can you monitor the WG duty at WOT?

That will tell you where the boost is relative to where the ECU wants it to be.
It is the best way to check for a leak or other problem.

what would i look for? like what would be running right?

[MSMS3]

when mines done ill run high to mid 12's all day on stock turbo. =]

Well, let us know when you actually complete those "when mines done," mods so we can talk facts.

If the BPV is not leaking (mine is not), changing to another one is not going to make any more power. Period. Other "when mines done" mods are not the issue here.

So, if I replace a non-leaking stock BPV with an aftermarket BPV, how is that going to make more power? I'm holding 15-16 psi now on stock tune. I don't see how another BPV will change that. Explain, please.

Just as an aside, do you plan to run those mid 12 second runs on the stock tires? That's the limitation now - traction, not power. Guys with only intake mods and otherwise stock are in the 12's on DOT drag radials. That's a completely different discussion, IMHO.

Returning to the issue of trying to help the OP, can someone PM him with help on posting his logs?

[onelsono]

Well, let us know when you actually complete those "when mines done," mods so we can talk facts.

If the BPV is not leaking (mine is not), changing to another one is not going to make any more power. Period. Other "when mines done" mods are not the issue here.

So, if I replace a non-leaking stock BPV with an aftermarket BPV, how is that going to make more power? I'm holding 15-16 psi now on stock tune. I don't see how another BPV will change that. Explain, please.

Just as an aside, do you plan to run those mid 12 second runs on the stock tires? That's the limitation now - traction, not power. Guys with only intake mods and otherwise stock are in the 12's on DOT drag radials. That's a completely different discussion, IMHO.

Returning to the issue of trying to help the OP, can someone PM him with help on posting his logs?

ok guy, 1 if u go 2 a track on street tires and ur not awd ur a fuckin idiot, 2 agian anything is better than that plastic valve, if you only runnin 15lbs u wont have a problem, but for those of us who are really moding and want power arent going to leave that stock valve on when were runnin 18-20psi. y dont you buy a nother valve and find out what it will really do, instaed of asuming it wont do anything,, im tellin u i went from the forge to stock and the car felt alot slower, thats my expeirence with it, dont seem like u have any with other valves so how can you tell ppl it wont do anything if you dont rlly no if it wil or not?

[MSMS3]

ok guy, 1 if u go 2 a track on street tires and ur not awd ur a fuckin idiot, 2 agian anything is better than that plastic valve, if you only runnin 15lbs u wont have a problem, but for those of us who are really moding and want power arent going to leave that stock valve on when were runnin 18-20psi. y dont you buy a nother valve and find out what it will really do, instaed of asuming it wont do anything,, im tellin u i went from the forge to stock and the car felt alot slower, thats my expeirence with it, dont seem like u have any with other valves so how can you tell ppl it wont do anything if you dont rlly no if it wil or not?

I'm a scientific method sort of guy. I go by data, not assumptions. My boost gauge is briefly spiking at 18-19 and settling back down at 16. My drag strip performance and accelerometer data logging tell me what power I'm generating and where. This is where I want it to be. If it ain't leaking at my boost level, some other valve is not going to improve my performance. I'm not looking to overboost and pop. I hope that is clear.

I guess there are a lot of us idiots out there at the strip or autox'ing on street tires of one sort or another. All of us idiots, every single one.

Will my BPV leak if I run a sustained 20 psi boost on stock internals? I think that would be the last of my worries.

Now, what can we do to help Jdizzle659 with his problem?

[MSMS3]

So i'm tuned at 18psi and when I go WOT in 3rd gear at 40mph my boost spikes at 20psi and instantly goes down to 16psi then to 15psi then back up to 16psi then back to 15psi and so on all the way to redline and does same thing in 4th. Car feels like it is getting slower and slower. After about 75mph right when i go into 4th there is a huge loss of power... I go from 40-75mph faster than 75mph to 85mph. Way faster. Any ideas? I have 0 knock, afrs are holding right around 12 the entire time, and while spraying co2 on stock tmic- boost air temp through 3rd gear starting at 115degrees goes down to 107 by redline and 4th gear starting at 115 goes up to 135(I know temperature is rising but 135degrees still isn't that hot... maybe the turbo is just blowing really hot air by that time making me think turbo could be going out)

Looking at your original post -- when you say "all the way to redline" what are you saying? What rpm are you upshifting at? How much time does it take for you to go from 75-85 mph -- that should all be in 4th gear at WOT, you probably just shifted into 4th at 75. I'm just wondering if you are pushing the turbo into thermal ineffeciency by shifting too late. Trying to help and look for more obvious things until we can get some hard data.

[cpolly69]

I'm a scientific method sort of guy. I go by data, not assumptions. My boost gauge is briefly spiking at 18-19 and settling back down at 16. My drag strip performance and accelerometer data logging tell me what power I'm generating and where. This is where I want it to be. If it ain't leaking at my boost level, some other valve is not going to improve my performance. I'm not looking to overboost and pop. I hope that is clear.

I guess there are a lot of us idiots out there at the strip or autox'ing on street tires of one sort or another. All of us idiots, every single one.

Will my BPV leak if I run a sustained 20 psi boost on stock internals? I think that would be the last of my worries.

Now, what can we do to help Jdizzle659 with his problem?

bpv's affect performance - but they only effect it positively if you do them correctly - if you want some science to explain how here you go just take out the slashes
***************************************link removed********************************* (http://www.m/a/z/d/a/s/p/e/e/d/f/o/r/u/m/s.org/forum/mazdaspeed-3-6-turbo-induction/18962-discussion-how-bypass-valves-can-affect-ltfts.html)

here's a dyno video of a bov and it's performance gain that's not that popular with the car but i believe is one of the best out there because it's of a different design -
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=syncronic+blow+off+valve+mazdaspeed+ 3&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#hl=en&emb=0&q=mazdaspeed3+synchronic

[GoFast]

bpv's affect performance - but they only effect it positively if you do them correctly - if you want some science to explain how here you go just take out the slashes
link removed

here's a dyno video of a bov and it's performance gain that's not that popular with the car but i believe is one of the best out there because it's of a different design -
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=syncronic+blow+off+valve+mazdaspeed+ 3&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#hl=en&emb=0&q=mazdaspeed3+synchronic

rather than try to get around the rules with links like that, why not just share the info or cut and paste. You can still give credit where credit is due, but don't link to other mazda forums.

[Wehrmacht]

I'm a scientific method sort of guy. My drag strip performance and accelerometer data logging tell me what power I'm generating and where.

All of us idiots, every single one.

Now, what can we do to help Jdizzle659 with his problem?

I like this guy (lick)


Flattering to know that intelligent gett'er done types also purchased this car.

[cpolly69]

rather than try to get around the rules with links like that, why not just share the info or cut and paste. You can still give credit where credit is due, but don't link to other mazda forums.

because it's an entire thread of good information and debate on the subject - you can't exactly copy and paste that -
here's a good question - why not just let folks post links to the other forums?, they allow users to post links to this one
it wouldn't have anything to do with not wanting people to see competitive prices on the same products from different vendors would it?

[Jdizzle659]

Looking at your original post -- when you say "all the way to redline" what are you saying? What rpm are you upshifting at? How much time does it take for you to go from 75-85 mph -- that should all be in 4th gear at WOT, you probably just shifted into 4th at 75. I'm just wondering if you are pushing the turbo into thermal ineffeciency by shifting too late. Trying to help and look for more obvious things until we can get some hard data.

I'll bet your right. I just figured being that i was holding boost, to take it further and I didn't really know that our turbos just blow hot air after 6000rpms which is what I keep hearing

[cpolly69]

on the stock setup you finished making hp at about 5500 and you reach pk tq at only like 2500

[Darth Vader]

I just switched to Forge and, on the red spring, the car is making more power down low, it's like pushing on a giant springy exercise ball of torque under my right foot. However, it's making the same ultimate boost and power, my boost gauge and G-Tech Pro says. It just feels stronger and smoother driving it around.

[onelsono]

I just switched to Forge and, on the red spring, the car is making more power down low, it's like pushing on a giant springy exercise ball of torque under my right foot. However, it's making the same ultimate boost and power, my boost gauge and G-Tech Pro says. It just feels stronger and smoother driving it around.

thank you, like i said you will feel a dif with a new valve.. the stock one is garbage.. kids are just haters man fuck.