Vibration revisited

[Mark787B]

After 3K miles on my '09, the weird vibrations that I occasionally get from my 5 remain my only real gripe. I can point to the tires to some extent but tires are rarely a variable problem in my experience, they're either out of balance, defective, etc. or not.

That points me in the direction of engine mounts. Can any '08 or '09 5 owners chime in on the subject? I know that there was a design change somewhere in the 5's past that has the potential for adding vibration at idle. I do have this condition but it's sporadic. Next stop is the dealer of course...

[AwaKeN]

I've never got any weird vibrations on my 09 and i'm at 4500 km

[Mark787B]

Thanks for your response-- do you have a manual or auto trans?

[AwaKeN]

Manual

[Mark787B]

I'll have to get my hands on another 5 with a manual transmission. Or swap for a Miata-- it is almost summer after all... :)

[coolmazda5]

Have you checked any of the vibration related TSBs, would there be some of the recommended fixes (and procedures) useful here? They are not for 09s, but who knows
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4611613&postcount=9

Or if nothing helps, maybe some aftermarket mount options could do the trick?
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123731748

[Mark787B]

Many thanks-- I think I've read through most vibration threads and I've examined my engine mounts (to the best of my ability). I notice when I head up steep hills I'll get a specific resonance, or "wave" of vibration that is a different feeling altogether.

Vibration at idle I can handle so it's possible that after I've exhausted the proper channels that aftermarket mounts are the way to go...

[Lee MD]

I just bought an 09 and i definitely have a vibration. I had the dealer check the wheel balancing and they discovered that the tires were slightly flatspotted due to the car sitting on the lot for several months. I took the car in today to have the vibration checked out along with some other outstanding dealer option installs. I don't know if they even did anything, but the vibration is even worse. Going to have to push some buttons at the dealer yet again.

[Mark787B]

Lee,

Please keep me posted. It's been my experience that the tires definitely flat-spot and appear to be "plastic"; sometimes they're fine, other times horrible. Since I feel vibration in the front I had the balance of the front tires checked by a Toyo dealer (all he had time for) and he noted very slight imbalance and acceptable "bounce" (which would simulate an out-of-round condition). I will try Toyo again but will likley just pick up a wheel/tire package for sanity's sake... Seems ridiculous on a new car!

[Zoom5Zoom]

if you have a flat spot on your tires since new here is a trick but do not recommend any un professional try this...

Inflate tires to approx 75LBS and run out the car for about 25 KM. If still persistent go to 85LBS and for longer range...

Yes it does flatten out that tire if not change it

[steve757]

I also have a Mazda 5 2009 with a significant vibration problem.

Immediatly noticed vibration thought it was a tire balance issue.

Purchased Nov 2008 Touring model 5 speed automatic. Some of the same issue that have have been descibed on forum in past +.

Mark as you said it is not consistent although it is always there in some fashion. Like you I feel the shake pretty much as soon as the car starts rolling. It is as if the chassis is contorted in so way. It is not a tire problem however the tires seem to cause a sympathetic vibration/shake in the chassis.

Whole car has a vibration/shake most prominent at 28 mph and 54 mph.
Steering wheel lightly shimeys at speeds above 40 mph.
At highway speeds unusual vibration thru steering wheel and seat, feels like whole chassis is shaking at a low frequency.
When temp was cold here in FL the whole car would feel like it was hoping up and down for the first 5 miles or so.

8 attempts to fix it by dealer.

Rebalanced tires, no change.
Replaced two of the OEM Toyo tires, no change.
New motor mounts, no change.
New Michelin Pilot tires no change.
Replaced one of the Michelin ties due to slightly higher road force rating, no change.
Arguably after the tire change it was ever so slightly improved.

A Mazda engineer and district rep has been involved since the motor mount change. The dealer and Mazda have been very reponsive until this last month. Now the stock response is the car meets spec and has has normal road feel
.
Filed lemon law hearing next month.

Like vehicle but VERY frustrated with vibration/shake issue. Anybody have any new thoughts or experience with Mazda on this issue.

Thanks

[steve757]

Opps forgot to mention

Replaced halfshafts, no change.

[steve757]

One more piece of information.

Manufactured 07/08.

[rweatherford]

What air pressure are you running in your tires?

[steve757]

Per the recomended tire pressure. 34 PSI front and rear.

Steve

[steve757]

I see there are some posts regarding tire problems. Mazda replaced all four of my Toyo tires with Michelin Pilots. They were selective so as to put tires on that have very low road force ratings. They even replaced one of them when the problem did not improve with another Michelin pilot so that all all four were extremly low road force tire's. They measured road force by spin balancing each tire off the vehicle and how much weight it took to bring it into balance. The OEM tire manufacturer (Toyo) had maintained from the begining that the tire's were not the problem. The Michelin tires were much lower road force rated tire's and much more expensive ($225/each). However they did not solve the problem. They changed the charateristics and arguably slightly improved the situation but the vibration was still present. Bottom line the problem may be compounded by the tires it is not the root cause of the vibration/shake.

I have a theory that the problem is engine vibration that is being transmitted to the body via the engine mounts. There is a sympathetic vibration that is exciting the body. There is at times also a compounding sympathetic vibration produced by the tires. The true cause may be that the chassis is not stiff enough for the additional weight and wheel base of the Mazda 5. As you already know the Mazda 5 is built on a expanded Mazda 3 platform.

I have taken some vibration reading using my Itouch and some vibration software I obtained form the Ipod store. Pretty neat stuff. They show a spike at 28 mph and 54 mph.

Any thoughts

Steve

[rweatherford]

Your theory may have some legs. You might have something out of balance inside the tranny.

You will think I am crazy but here goes...

Our rear tires hold most of the weight on the inside edge due to negative camber alignment specs.

Try this as an easy fix and if it doesn't work you are out no money and little time. Let us know how it goes.

Inflate the tires to 50 PSI and see if it helps any. When I first got my car it had 35 PSI in the tires. Every time we drove it we could feel the flat spots while driving until the tires warmed up. We don't notice it any more.

The rear tire wear has been reduced significantly also. I had one rear tire that kept going down to 30-35 PSI on me between fuel fillups. It has worn noticeably more on the inside. Enough that I had a tire shop fix the leak and flip the tire on the rim yesterday.

[coolmazda5]

Serviced the 06 today (w/tire rotation and balancing) and the service guy told me about how fragile the Mazda alloy wheels are, in other words, if they are not fully symmetrical (read defective or hit by a pothole) there is no alignment or balancing that can help them. The wheels just then need to be replaced or re-machined.

I know it sounds stupid and remote but I've not seen it on any of the fixes posted earlier...

Thoughts anyone?

[jmcglynn]

I think the only way to put his one to bed is to swap wheels with another 5 (or 3 for that matter) and test it again. It could be the rim, but the only way to be sure is to run on a different set of rims. If a dealer isn't willing to do this test for you, then find a friend whose got a 3 or 5 you can borrow for a few hours...

[steve757]

Good thought guys but I forgot to mention that one of the things the Mazda people did early in the process. Same day they did the half shafts.

Just got there offical response from the lemon law filing. In a nut shell they say it is a normal charateristic of the vehicle.

Any more thoughts?

Thanks

Steve

[steve757]

Well the arbitraition with Mazda was held yesterday I should know tomorrow the result. Fingers crossed.

[Trdkamuri51o]

good luck steve.. i just picked up an 09 last week (well 8 days now) and ive noticed a minute vibration at somewhere near your stated speeds guys, 54mph... its sooo subtle that my girlfriend said it must be nothing major.. well now you guys proved its something more.. ill ride it a bit longer and see if i notice any difference

i have a 09GT with 189 total miles on the vehicle.. and notice a very very very minute vibration that has never been present on any of my other vehicles fresh off the lot..

[AIMWO4]

I read through all posts... I think Steve has a unique situation. I had what amounted to No.4 Motor Mount break on a car which caused a vibration, which I thought might be it.

Have they done anything to test your engine? If a balance shaft (in the engine) is out of sync, or defective, it could be one of them. Without actually seeing your car, it's tough to tell.

Do you have video? Maybe you could post a video of what you are experiencing.

[morethan5]

Steve's situation is not unique. I have the same issue. The vibration has nothing to do with the engine or transmission. The vibration occurs at the same road speed, regardless of engine RPM, transmission gear, whether accelerating or decelerating, being in neutral, or any combination of the above. The problem is definitely a natural frequency of the vehicle.

[AIMWO4]

That doesn't explain why we all don't have the problem. I can't even tell my engine is running when it's idling. I have to look at the tach to ensure I actually started the thing sometimes.

What year is your 5? Auto or Manual tranny?


Steve's situation is not unique. I have the same issue. The vibration has nothing to do with the engine or transmission. The vibration occurs at the same road speed, regardless of engine RPM, transmission gear, whether accelerating or decelerating, being in neutral, or any combination of the above. The problem is definitely a natural frequency of the vehicle.

[morethan5]

That doesn't explain why we all don't have the problem. I can't even tell my engine is running when it's idling. I have to look at the tach to ensure I actually started the thing sometimes.

What year is your 5? Auto or Manual tranny?

My engine is equally smooth at idle, all they way up to ~45 mph, and past ~55 mph. At ~50mph the body of the car exhibits a vibration that can be felt through the seats, and sometimes seen in the headrests and visors.

I have the 5AT.

While the tires are the most likely excitation source, the source could be anything from the output shaft of the transmission through to the tires, the vibration is in the body itself -- it's ringing like a tuning fork at a low frequency. Just like a tuning fork, if nothing of the same frequency is coupled to it, nothing happens. What makes the 5 different from other cars is the sensitivity (read as low damping, or low stiffness) to such a low frequency.

Changing the load distribution (moving people around) does change the vibration a bit.

[Nova2009Mazda5]

My almost-new '09 GT5 (auto tranny) is a bit rough at idle (vibration causes sun visor to shake, plus you can feel it and hear the engine doing a slight chugga-chugga noise). It is very smooth accelerating (so much so that I sometimes marvel that I am driving a 4-cyl car). From 45-55 mph there is a vibration, but not a horrible one. I only notice it if I am focused on trying to detect it. At highway cruising speeds (60-70 mph), there is some wind noise, but the ride is smooth if the roads are smooth. The car does seem to "feel" every slight bump and crack in the pavement, more so than other cars I have driven.

I am ordering a ground wire kit. Once it's installed, I'll let everyone know if it solves the rough idle. I doubt it will do anything about the 50 mph vibration, but on my 5, at least, that vibration is not so severe that I feel compelled to go to extraordinary lengths to eliminate it.

[Trdkamuri51o]

My engine is equally smooth at idle, all they way up to ~45 mph, and past ~55 mph. At ~50mph the body of the car exhibits a vibration that can be felt through the seats, and sometimes seen in the headrests and visors.

I have the 5AT.

While the tires are the most likely excitation source, the source could be anything from the output shaft of the transmission through to the tires, the vibration is in the body itself -- it's ringing like a tuning fork at a low frequency. Just like a tuning fork, if nothing of the same frequency is coupled to it, nothing happens. What makes the 5 different from other cars is the sensitivity (read as low damping, or low stiffness) to such a low frequency.

Changing the load distribution (moving people around) does change the vibration a bit.

exact and i mean exact same symptoms.. 45-55 i feel it.. and i look in the rear view and see the mid row headrest shaking.. i hit 60 and it goes away.. 75 and nada...

09gt 5at...

[coolmazda5]

and i look in the rear view and see the mid row headrest shaking

Here is a similar thread with video 2nd row vibration (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123734349)

I believe that is "normal" (i.e. 2nd row seats are not as rugged as the 1st row ones plus they are not anchored to the pillars as any other bench seats). The vibration described earlier by Mark787B and steve757 seems different however :(

[Mark787B]

What's odd to me is the inconsistency of the phenomenon-- both Steve and I have noted that warmer temperatures seem to make the situation worse. I usually note that the engine is smooth at idle, meaning that the mounts are doing their job at that RPM and under no load. I can place my hand on the passenger side mount for example and can easily tell that's the case. However, under load, and under some conditions, the mounts aren't able to do their job to mask what I have to believe is a known issue...

[Robotaz]

My almost-new '09 GT5 (auto tranny) is a bit rough at idle (vibration causes sun visor to shake, plus you can feel it and hear the engine doing a slight chugga-chugga noise). It is very smooth accelerating (so much so that I sometimes marvel that I am driving a 4-cyl car). From 45-55 mph there is a vibration, but not a horrible one. I only notice it if I am focused on trying to detect it. At highway cruising speeds (60-70 mph), there is some wind noise, but the ride is smooth if the roads are smooth. The car does seem to "feel" every slight bump and crack in the pavement, more so than other cars I have driven.

I am ordering a ground wire kit. Once it's installed, I'll let everyone know if it solves the rough idle. I doubt it will do anything about the 50 mph vibration, but on my 5, at least, that vibration is not so severe that I feel compelled to go to extraordinary lengths to eliminate it.

So do we get an update anytime soon on the grounding kit?

[Slashz28]

After 3K miles on my '09, the weird vibrations that I occasionally get from my 5 remain my only real gripe. I can point to the tires to some extent but tires are rarely a variable problem in my experience, they're either out of balance, defective, etc. or not.

That points me in the direction of engine mounts. Can any '08 or '09 5 owners chime in on the subject? I know that there was a design change somewhere in the 5's past that has the potential for adding vibration at idle. I do have this condition but it's sporadic. Next stop is the dealer of course...

Wife and I just purchased an 08 gt with 24k kms, auto, last week. Had brand new steelies+winter tires installed as well. Noticed that between 75-85 kms/h, we get vibes from the front end, especially noticeable in the passenger side footwell (kinda like accelerating with a bad axle). Most noticeable at 80 kmph on the nose. Sometimes it's not there though. Anyway, went through the previous owners service receipts, and she complained about the same vibe at 18k (on the stock wheels+tires), and the tech balanced the front tires. Dunno if the issue actually went away. IMO, these vibes are not due to the tires. I found a tsb online about 06-07's experiencing these issues, and that the fix was to change the # 3 and 4 motor mounts, but in turn that may cause more vibes at idle. I'm just gonna leave it like this for now, since the car drives 100% fine otherwise, no vibes at any other speeds, so it's fine. I'll see if the same vibe persists when I swap back to the stock wheels + tires come spring, and if it does, will take it in to see what they say. hth

TV

[KBrian]

Some winter wheels have required inserts (concentric rings) around the hub (hub-centric wheels) to smooth out vibration. If the vibration began after mounting the winter's, this could be the source of the trouble.

[Slashz28]

Some winter wheels have required inserts (concentric rings) around the hub (hub-centric wheels) to smooth out vibration. If the vibration began after mounting the winter's, this could be the source of the trouble.

If you're talking about my winter wheels, they're hub centric (correct centerbore diam.). Not "universal" fit.

[DiscoStew]

Been meaning to post this for a while... Noticed the vibration at 54 mph driving our new 2009 off the dealer lot. Car had 5 miles on it. You could hear and see the second row seats shaking and the child seats vibrating. I brought it to our local dealer (we had to go 200 miles to get the 5 we wanted) and they actually charged me $35 and told me it was a bad tire "out of round" - not their problem and to bring it up with the Toyo Dealer. Total jerks because I didn't buy the car from them (they couldn't get the car I wanted)! I usually bring my car to the dealer for maintenance, so they lost all of that revenue. SO short sighted.

The Toyo dealer said the tire was fine and Toyo would reject the claim. I paid the tire dealer $22 (they cut me a deal) to rebalance all four tires. They claimed the were pretty out of balance and one rim had a slight imperfection in round but they could be balanced. Anyway, that did not solve the problem. Interestingly, when I put my brand new rim and snow tire package on, the point of vibration was raised to about 62 mph but was still there. I have not had the snows checked for balance, but I guess that is the next step.

I have a feeling we are just going to have to live with this. I know my local dealer will be no help.

- Stew

[mpvue]

I brought it to our local dealer (we had to go 200 miles to get the 5 we wanted) and they actually charged me $35 and told me it was a bad tire "out of round" - not their problem and to bring it up with the Toyo Dealer. Total jerks because I didn't buy the car from them (they couldn't get the car I wanted)! I usually bring my car to the dealer for maintenance, so they lost all of that revenue. SO short sighted.


- Stew
I wouldn't be so quick to say the service dept had a grudge against you; sales and service are mutually exclusive, and I don't see how they would know they lost the sale (they get reimbursed from Mazda for warranty work so it shouldn't matter to them).
anyway, vibration is a hard thing to pin down, esp from written descriptions. another person may very well get in your car and not feel anything, or what they do feel is considered acceptable according to their experiences.
I notice an annoying droning/hum on a certain section of hwy I drive, so I know it's a tire/road interface issue. vibration? I guess I feel what could be called that sometimes, but it's nothing that is bothersome.
I have noticed something that did bother me. at least one of the wheels has a HUGE amount of balancing weights on it; I used to balance aircraft wheels, and there was a limit as to how many we could use befire the wheel was no longer serviceable, this wheel is way out. wouldn't know if the tire is bad or the wheel, but I suspect these tires won't last long anyhow.
I may wind up using the factory alloys for winter tires, and get a nice summer setup.

[BarryFive]

I wish I had read these postings before buying my brand new Mazda 5 this spring :-6.

I am also suffering from vibrations at cruise speed (80km/h). Changing tires Toyo -> Continental -> Michelin has not helped, though admittedly the Michelin tires seems to improve things a bit (but not enough). Has anybody found a good solution?

[Slashz28]

Well, we still have the vibe, but only on the drivers side in both front and middle seats. Steering wheel shimmies at same speeds, again, inconsistently. It's just weird. I don't drive the car often but when I do it annoys the heck out of me, because otherwise the car would/should be smoooth. I hope some kind of permanent fix is found for this. I did email mazda canada a few months back, and surprise surprise, did not even receive a reply. It's too bad.

[BarryFive]

Hi Steve,

Which software did you download to you iTouch?
Did it tell you the frequency of the vibrations (I would think around 5Hz).

Regards
B5

[Rocket]

Wasn't there a TSB about this that implicated the motor mounts? I think the solution was simply a shop procedure that realigned the engine in the mounts?

[Katner]

Just got there offical response from the lemon law filing. In a nut shell they say it is a normal charateristic of the vehicle.
Exactly as expected.

Steve's situation is not unique. I have the same issue. The vibration has nothing to do with the engine or transmission. The vibration occurs at the same road speed, regardless of engine RPM, transmission gear, whether accelerating or decelerating, being in neutral, or any combination of the above. The problem is definitely a natural frequency of the vehicle.
+1. I noticed this the first time I took my 5 out after buying it and to be honest haven't been too worried. Almost everyone has had the issue and I'm rarely at the occurring speeds. If there is a TSB then that's good and we can all go in and get motor mount changes or what not free of charge. If not I'm ok with it. The car is engineered well otherwise and after 62,000kms I have had zero issues besides the stuff that Mazda already knew about.

I used to have the vibration at 80mph as well as the typical 50, but switching out the Toyos cured the higher speed issue.

What we really need to know is if those who have aftermarket rims are still experiencing the vibration. I myself feel little to zero vibration while my winter rims are on.

For those experiencing buyers remorse, fear not. I love everything else about this car and I've only grown more fond of my 5 with continued ownership.

[kyoshiro]

Might want to tell them to retorque the CV boot or turn the rotor (if no one has suggested it or ignore me if they're not the case)

[saljaimes]

Guys, not sure if you are aware, but I received a recall notice for my 2008 Mazda5 related to the power steering and vibration issues. You can go to a dealer and find out if your model qualifies...

Thanks,

Sal J.

[flcruising]

There's a thread about that already - http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123782391-2007-09-Mazda3-and-Mazda5s-Recalled-to-Fix-Power-Steering-Issue

Has nothing to do with vibration though, only steering. If yours says vibration, then you must share the information because you are the only one...

[csb1237]

I have had this ongoing saga with my 2006 Mazda5 MT...I have posted about it numerous times on numerous boards. Nothing the dealer has done (or that I have done for that matter) has fixed the problem. Our car now has 45K miles on it, and the vibration is as bad as it ever was. I will be writing a letter to Mazda NA to tell them what I have been through and ask them to send out a district service rep to look into the problem. This is a KNOWN problem that is due to a design flaw that Mazda Corporate needs to address...hopefully they will eventually get around to it. For those of you with '09s never fear...your rear shocks will blow out at around 30K, your rotors will probably start vibrating as well, and, if you're really lucky, your car may even use oil on you (like ours does). Quality issues abound with these cars...despite them being very popular.

[pwrpf01]

I have an '09 that has 32,xxx miles & has brand spanking new tires. I have noticed a fast 'vibration' throughout the whole vehicle on cold mornings. (almost like it needs an alignment big time, but it doesn't) When I leave my driveway, it will last about 1-2 miles, then will be gone. It's not the road either. Took it to the dealer for a few warrantied items, but they can't find anything looking out of sorts. Of course, the vibration is non-existent when they have the car! After the 1-2 miles, it drives as smooth as silk. I don't get it!!!
I love the car. My husband doesn't though ;)

[coolmazda5]

I have an '09 that has 32,xxx miles & has brand spanking new tires. I have noticed a fast 'vibration' throughout the whole vehicle on cold mornings. (almost like it needs an alignment big time, but it doesn't) When I leave my driveway, it will last about 1-2 miles, then will be gone

I can tell you is normal, at least in my 2 cars. My theory is that the tires are low profile and more vulnerable to catch flat spots after parking overnight. I don't feel any misalignment though... (I have yokohamas and toyos)

[pwrpf01]

I can tell you is normal, at least in my 2 cars. My theory is that the tires are low profile and more vulnerable to catch flat spots after parking overnight. I don't feel any misalignment though... (I have yokohamas and toyos)

Thanks Coolmazda5! This makes me feel better about the situation :)

[wmzda5]

I can tell you is normal, at least in my 2 cars. My theory is that the tires are low profile and more vulnerable to catch flat spots after parking overnight. I don't feel any misalignment though... (I have yokohamas and toyos)

I also notice this on my car and suspect the same as the cause.