Mazdaspeed 3 / 6 K04 Turbo Upgrade - 330WHP!!!

[PPO2Kane]

Well - I was helping a buddy out and I got in touch with Bryan at BNR Supercars - owner of the world record RX7 FD on factory twin turbo's..... so he knows how to make OEM turbo's into beasts.



Monkeyboydrew sent off his OEM turbo to see what Bryan could do for him.... and after talkinhg to him on the phone - we decided to try and hook this up for anyone who wants a bolt on better turbo. Please read below.



PS - This isn't my thing just trying to help out!



Hey Kane.



The best Mazdaspeed 3/6 turbocharger is well on its way on being developed. The unit will be engineered for 330 WHP. The plan is 100% bolt up, no fabrication required, reliable, and affordable hybrid turbocharger upgrade. I need atleast 10 group buy volunteers to submit turbocharger cores. The turbochargers don't have to be rebuildable, they can leak, have broken shafts ect. I will throw the factory CHRA and compressor housings to make room for a robust and reliable turbocharger upgrade!



I suggest buying a blown up turbocharger off of forum members, ebay, or even shops that deal with the 3/6's. It will take atleast 8 weeks to make custom parts, CAD programs for CNC machines, and customized rotating assembly parts. I do not required a deposit up front, just a core. I am willing to devote my time and money in the set up for this turbocharger to initally get going.



Price will be $1300 after group buy, $1100 for the group buy. If more than 10 are in the group buy, that is fine. When parts are completed and the rotating assemblies assembled, we will then do the list, get payment and send out the turbochargers in batches of 5 units.



Bryan Nickell

President of BNR Supercars LLC

BNRsupercars@yahoo.com

205 640 1193



So CORES are the first step.... please let me know if we have any HP fiends out there who will want in on this. Looks like same spool - better flow and higher top end are all in site.

Also keep in mind this is basically a brand new turbo - the factory shaft cannot handle the higher boost and flow no matter what you do to the hot and cold sides; so Bryan recommended that he re CNC the CHRA to take a better and beefier shaft, bearings, etc.

[Bravnik]

This sounds like it has some good potential.

[skeeter149]

hmmmmmm

[smakdown61]

Wow. $1300 for a modified k04 that will do 330whp? You realize guys are already hitting 320whp fully bolted on the stock turbo right?

[BillTheCat]

This is exactly what I did to my MKIII Supra turbo. K04E upgrade in the stock housing. But it only cost me a couple of hundred bucks to have a local turbo specialist do the work. In fact, it was his idea to upgrade- I was just there for a rebuild.

Mind you, this guy was well beyond the R&D phase for the Toyota unit, so he could churn them out quickly at minimal expense.

Could be a good option, especially for those who want to upgrade & either not blow the warranty, or just get some stealth power nobody will spot under the hood.

[PPO2Kane]

Update from Bryan regarding HP numbers.

Hello.



The compressor wheel I was thinking of using is a 40 lb/min wheel good for 400 BHP.



I repeat that the turbocharger is not rebuilt. Its replaced with a new Garrett unit. Only thing reused is the exhaust housing. If you are paying 750 for a rebuilt stocker, that is a ticking time bomb. K03 and K04s are throw away units. I have been doing extremely customized turbochargers for 12 years. If the custom compressor wheels are not balanced perfectly, they will quickly come apart.



Well lets take a poll here. How much power are you guys looking to make then I will rethink things. I have to use a specific type of turbocharger or it will not work. If you go over 350 WHP then I will have to make custom turbine wheels along with custom compressor wheels.



But you will also have to consider the bigger the rotating assembly parts, the less response you have. Bigger isn't always better in a street car.



To answer a question above about the compressor inlet size, The housing I have in mind has a 2.5" inlet. I can machine those down to fit the factory intake tube if needed.



Bryan@BNR

[Akaveli]

hhmm...interesting.

[Captain KRM P5]

Wow. $1300 for a modified k04 that will do 330whp? You realize guys are already hitting 320whp fully bolted on the stock turbo right?

i don't think he's saying the turbo itself will generate 330whp out of the box on an otherwise stock vehicle. he's saying the turbos will be engineered with the potential to make 330whp on the car at the end of the day, tuned, with other parts, etc. this is pretty much what the other reworked turbos have the potential to show, give or take the right tuning and the right accompanying mods. we've seen 350 to 370 whp - which i don't frankly recommend on a K04 of any trim - which is more than most people need or want from these cars.

no one should be in the mindset that one mod is going to magically unlock 100+ more whp on these engines, and i don't think thats what the original poster or company was trying to say here.

EDIT - read the update in post 7, and that makes a lot of good sense and sounds very interesting. i have a few cores here waiting if anyone is interested.

[PPO2Kane]

How much for cores man? I wouldn't mind keeping my stocker alone just in case something happens later on.

[ericrapp]

I just came across this and am a little interested. Where are you going to make the power. I am not knowledgable enough to speak on this but isnt the stock K designed for early spool and runs hot air at around 6300. And is your set up designed for the higher flow tbe and bigger ICs. 330 on the street is mostly wheelspin but to have some good flow at the top of fourth and fifth gear would be fun so the mid to high 300s also would be nice for the long straights. And as a bolt on? What ecu management is needed? Thanks for the interest in building the little k up.

[PPO2Kane]

The idea is to get a better flowing unit - with less backpressure; so you end up with a slightly slower spool in exchange for more flow up top... the goal is to get the AR spool slowness (if you will) to be as small as possible.

MAF based car with this kind of mod can benefit from tuning (obviously); but shouldn't be required provided the new turbo doesn't drastically change VE.... if it does - then an AP type gig will work it out no problems.

[Captain KRM P5]

How much for cores man? I wouldn't mind keeping my stocker alone just in case something happens later on.

PM me if interested

[PPO2Kane]

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee222/kanetomlin/ms36pic2.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee222/kanetomlin/ms36pic3.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee222/kanetomlin/stage1MS36pic1.jpg

Ooooooo - pretty....

[mazdaspeed32007]

if your going to be doing full bolt on's and can push 330 without this unpgrade what added benefits would you be seeing? the price is not steep for what your getting in labor, parts, and quality, but i cant see the purpose in doing this if its a daily driver hitting 330 whp without this anyway...i may be ignorant but please fill me in. i know kens upgraded k04 has worked wonders....is there a difference here between the two?

[PPO2Kane]

The short answer is reliability... the K04 with the 5mm shaft is never going to push that much power as easily as the upgrade.

The idea is to bolt on a reliable upgraded snail that can better make use of all the other mods you are going to install or already have... no matter how you cut it this turbo flows more than the K04 - so if you wanna turn up the boost and exceed BNR's specs - and your willing to take the risk; then have at it.

[Speed3Rookie]

hmm....it sure is purty

[mazdaspeed32007]

so basically the stock K04 would only be able to push so much air because of its build. lets say the stock ko4 can handle like...21 psi before it just cant push any more volume of air...the upgraded turbo would push the same volume of air at a lower psi and a 21 psi with the upgrade will push not just more air at 21 psi but it will be able to exceed the stocks max psi by quite a bit more? makes good sense. so thats why he was saying use the k04 core and your basically getting a new turbo. i must have mis read something in there before.....idk....looks like a sweet turbo though. good work! id love to see someone do this and see the outcome. better have the upgraded block or engine internals.

[clos561]

this will help the turbo not blow hot air into your motor, these baby turbos are only good for 5800 rpms any rpms after that you start blowing hot air.

[ericrapp]

This sounds like a great project. But i must ask the question that is never answered decisively, how much hp can the stock internals handle if tuned decently?

[cpolly69]

i believe this thread started over on su - these were some ?'s i raised there -
well i've been following this thread for a while and i am anxious to see the results from the first person - this week i got my new k04 from the dealership installed on wednesday - saturday i installed my dp/rp & inlet - then i drove about 75 miles - and that was the end of those oil seals! it already smokes after about a min at 25 psi -
so since i've already got another k04 sitting here i'm starting to get concerned about just how this idea may or may not work - some of the things i've been thinking about are:
1. if this newly bulit turbo spools faster and creates more power at low rpm - what will happen to those who haven't upgraded the fuel system yet and they experience the lean spot at low rpm?
2. the previous ? goes with this one - what about the knock retard issue all ms3s experience? it's also at low rpm and even with the best tuning - i haven't seen someone totally eliminate it - so what happens when we go into boost and we have knock?
3. the most important to me - if this is still going to remain a journal bearing turbo - what is going to be done to stop the seals from leaking oil into the exhaust side housing - everyone who rebuilids one uses the best seals possible and they still leak - the have been therioes spun about the chamber being over-pressureized and that a better supply and return for the oil may help - but is any of that in the plans?

from what i've seen here this person obviously knows a ton about building b/a turbos - but what i really want to know is do they know about the ms3 and all it's issues well enough to build a safe & non-smoking turbo that can be used on a daily driver??

[240ka]

why were you running 25ppsi on our Turbo.

that doesntmake any sense. 21 is pushing its limits, hell itsat its limits

[cpolly69]

when your k04 seals are bad 25psi is the oil pressure where the shaft moves enough to start to leak oil into the exhaust side housing and get burned off - i should have been more clear - 25psi oil pressure not boost

[dizzin9]

lol i would love to see a DD ~400 hp ms3 lasting at least 3 yrs with 100k miles

[ericrapp]

Raise the octane or lower compression is the old school way to deal with knock. And watch your egts. if i run 100 octane will the knock sensor relax its grip on the ecu?

[cpolly69]

that's a negative - at least with the stock ecu map anyway - i've got a sunaco near me that sells 100 and 110 and i have ran both and still get a little knock around 3k and various points thru the band when it's cold

[ericrapp]

That is a shame. i would have hoped that might've helped. I will run the 100 octane from our Delta sonic when its hot and i am going to track or run the thing especially hard. Not data logging, i have no idea. Is the knock sensor overly sensitive on our cars? I guess my next question is, being a boost novice, if i move into a compressor map that comes from installing a big boy that lets me blow cool air to 6800 at less boost does the knock go away. And of course the timing retard. Help me out and if we need to move this to pm please feel free. And maybe that is the point. even though a clipped and ported k4 can spin more boost it still is limited to an rpm range? i have 43k on mine and beat it up often but never add oil... How are you logging your data?

[evilmonkey]

this week i got my new k04 from the dealership installed on wednesday - saturday i installed my dp/rp & inlet - then i drove about 75 miles - and that was the end of those oil seals! it already smokes after about a min at 25 psi -


when your k04 seals are bad 25psi is the oil pressure where the shaft moves enough to start to leak oil into the exhaust side housing and get burned off - i should have been more clear - 25psi oil pressure not boost ~~{ WHAT?????-}~~

25 PSI of Oil Pressure..?!?!?!? This is insanely low .......Idle should be 25-30psi! I found these tidbits using Google:

idle @ operating temp (~185-degF) = avg 23psi

Running 5w40 on the speed3...idle @ operating temp (~185-degF) = avg 28psi
Running 5w30 on the speed3...idle @ operating temp (~185-degF) = avg 23psi
5w40 on speed3 ... cruising at 3000rpm @ operating temp = avg 70psi
idle @ operating temp (~185-degF) = avg 23psi

Either you got a bad gauge/sender....Your oiling system works the exact opposite of the way it was designed.....You read the gauge wrong.....Or you You just said Oil Pressure to cover up the fact your over-boosted your turbo twice LOL ...(ohsnap!)

Seriously... the turbo probably overheated instead of breaking the seals because of high oil pressure ....or..... you exceeded the max boost limit for this car and over heated the turbo .....or.... your sender is bad, if this is the case, you wouldn't know what the pressure really was.

[evilmonkey]

even though a clipped and ported k4 can spin more boost it still is limited to an rpm range?

He's just using the exaust portion of the core.The fun side is upgraded with garret pieces and is a bit larger than the stock K.

[cpolly69]

25 PSI of Oil Pressure..?!?!?!? This is insanely low .......Idle should be 25-30psi! I found these tidbits using Google:

idle @ operating temp (~185-degF) = avg 23psi

Running 5w40 on the speed3...idle @ operating temp (~185-degF) = avg 28psi
Running 5w30 on the speed3...idle @ operating temp (~185-degF) = avg 23psi
5w40 on speed3 ... cruising at 3000rpm @ operating temp = avg 70psi
idle @ operating temp (~185-degF) = avg 23psi

Either you got a bad gauge/sender....Your oiling system works the exact opposite of the way it was designed.....You read the gauge wrong.....Or you You just said Oil Pressure to cover up the fact your over-boosted your turbo twice LOL ...(ohsnap!)

Seriously... the turbo probably overheated instead of breaking the seals because of high oil pressure ....or..... you exceeded the max boost limit for this car and over heated the turbo .....or.... your sender is bad, if this is the case, you wouldn't know what the pressure really was.

no i just have a cheap cobalt oil pressure gauge with the sending unit plumed in at the stock location and at idle it drops down to right above the 25 mark (which is probably 28 just like you said above b/c i'm running 5w40)- i could post a vid if it would make you happy -
can google tell you what the pressure is actually at the turbo?
there's nothing wrong with the oiling system or my sender - the k04 just is a piece of crap that can't handle the lack of back-pressure - i also monitor the egt with my dh and it was actually lower then normal and has been ever since installed the new dp
i did everything the way you are supposed to and i didn't over heat the turbo - it just blew the seals

[evilmonkey]

Dude .. relax. from what you said, you ran the car hard for a minute @ 25 psi....either way 25psi of boost or 25psi of oil pressure is gonna fubar your turbo...I'm just trying to figure out how, from what you said...it just doesn't make sense.

I haven't checked google for pressure @ the turbo but logic tells me it will be a hell of a lot higher than 25 psi when ran hard, and it would be slightly less then average 25psi @ idle after moving through the oiling system.

90% of us with these cars have the same turbo with mods(except for those who upgraded) and don't have blown seals but you gotta remember this is the factory turbo and it was designed to work with factory DP that provides enough back pressure for the k04.
You cant expect it to excel with mods added that directly effect the operation for which it was designed

[Sport6]

I would say its pretty hard to drop 1100/1300 bucks on someones word. Dynos/Videos of the thing running might make it easier.

[cpolly69]

i personally think it will still leak oil just like all the other journal bearing k04s unless something is done to improve the supply and returns lines/fittings and because of all various setups no one will know it's leaking - hell half the folks out there with smoking turbos now don't know they are b/c of their cats and the other half will fight to say there's nothing wrong with a turbo that smokes a little

[essejkcamraw]

ill stick with 600 bux and a reworked turbo from PG and pretty much get the same thing out of it, daily driven anymore than 350hp on these cars are trouble if you ask me...

[Captain KRM P5]

ill stick with 600 bux and a reworked turbo from PG and pretty much get the same thing out of it, daily driven anymore than 350hp on these cars are trouble if you ask me...

350hp so far seems to be a breaking point for the connecting rods on the 2.3 DISI. DCR believes with better fueling they can make more, time will tell on what solutions they have in store.

[Flightmedic]

ill stick with 600 bux and a reworked turbo from PG and pretty much get the same thing out of it, daily driven anymore than 350hp on these cars are trouble if you ask me...

This isnt a rebuilt turbo its a k04 shell with brand new gt28 guts...Nothing like a rebuilt k04.

[cpolly69]

i don't think saying it's got garrett guts is entirely correct - it's still a journal bearing turbo - not a ball bearing turbo (gt2871 is a ball bearing turbo) - yes it may spool faster and make more hp then the rewrd or standard k04's guts but the questions i haven't seen answered still remain - leaking oil into the exhaust housing? - interactions with knock retard? and lean spot in the fuel ?

[Flightmedic]

i don't think saying it's got garrett guts is entirely correct - it's still a journal bearing turbo - not a ball bearing turbo (gt2871 is a ball bearing turbo) - yes it may spool faster and make more hp then the rewrd or standard k04's guts but the questions i haven't seen answered still remain - leaking oil into the exhaust housing? - interactions with knock retard? and lean spot in the fuel ?

Cant answer those for ya until its built : ) Hopefully in a few weeks the turbo will be finished and me and monkey can get them on out cars and get some definitive results. Not sure if you are a member on the "other" forum because neither of us really post much here...

[cpolly69]

yeah i'm on suf and msf - i made a reference to it a few posts back along with all my wonderful ?'s

[essejkcamraw]

This isnt a rebuilt turbo its a k04 shell with brand new gt28 guts...Nothing like a rebuilt k04.

ok thats all fine an good, but, what i said was... why spend that much on that when BASICALLY for 600 you will get the almost the SAME gain from just a rebuilt turbo from PG? and if i was gonna spend that much on that, i'd say fuck it an opt for the gt28 in the first place. not much bigger than the k04...

[GiJoe]

yeah... you can pay 1100 for a whole new turbo thats good for more HP....

[cpolly69]

ok thats all fine an good, but, what i said was... why spend that much on that when BASICALLY for 600 you will get the almost the SAME gain from just a rebuilt turbo from PG? and if i was gonna spend that much on that, i'd say fuck it an opt for the gt28 in the first place. not much bigger than the k04...

this is what you get for $600 from PG-
Ported and Polished Housings
- Larger Billet Aluminum Lightweight Compressor Wheel
- Clipped Turbine Wheel
- Teardown and rebuild including new seals, new bearings

these guys are are totally talking about all the internal parts not just these that's why it cost $1100 not to mention it will perform like a totally different turbo while the PG's will perform like a better K04

and if you are gonna say fuck it and get a gt2871 it's about $1450 and don't forget your inlet pipe will not fit that so you need one of those too @$200 so now you're up to $1650 and to top it off lots of vac lines and other fun stuff must be changed around and unless you really know what you are doing it's not easy - where as the other 2 will change over everything

keep this in mind too - you could prob run the PG K04 on the stock ecu and maybe this new one but you definitely aren't gonna do that gt28w/out tuning

so at each level of performance you are getting what you pay for as long as this new project works out with all the ms3's other problems

[cpolly69]

and by the way the gt2871 may not be much "bigger" but it's moving air in a whole new way compared to the k04- you will make more hp at lower boost levels with it or any of the bigger better garrett gt turbos and they are all still capable of making more boost then the k04 even the 2871

[ericrapp]

That is the cool factor. Being able to run the stock ecu. With an internal wastegate. And gaining extra performance for a reasonable price. you are correct that going bigger will take much more than just a turbo bolt up. IMHO

[cpolly69]

That is the cool factor. Being able to run the stock ecu. With an internal wastegate. And gaining extra performance for a reasonable price. you are correct that going bigger will take much more than just a turbo bolt up. IMHO

that's why this this is getting excitement on 2 forums - and it would be definitely cool to just bolt up -

[ericrapp]

Yes it is a step up but limited as you mentioned. since before i purchased my car i have considered going to a bigger unit and all the advantages that an appropriate tune could provide. But i am naive to the ECU and using MAF inputs. Being new to the boosted world, and having a car i am making payments on still. I will have to wait a bit to step up. although i am not going to take this k04 upgrade path. I will wait and see how these mods work themselves out in the long run. And i hope the PG upgrade does well.

[essejkcamraw]

this is what you get for $600 from PG-
Ported and Polished Housings
- Larger Billet Aluminum Lightweight Compressor Wheel
- Clipped Turbine Wheel
- Teardown and rebuild including new seals, new bearings

these guys are are totally talking about all the internal parts not just these that's why it cost $1100 not to mention it will perform like a totally different turbo while the PG's will perform like a better K04

and if you are gonna say fuck it and get a gt2871 it's about $1450 and don't forget your inlet pipe will not fit that so you need one of those too @$200 so now you're up to $1650 and to top it off lots of vac lines and other fun stuff must be changed around and unless you really know what you are doing it's not easy - where as the other 2 will change over everything

keep this in mind too - you could prob run the PG K04 on the stock ecu and maybe this new one but you definitely aren't gonna do that gt28w/out tuning

so at each level of performance you are getting what you pay for as long as this new project works out with all the ms3's other problems




if im wanting to go crazy with power, yeah i would def opt for the gt28, why not? a couple of hundred bucks more you get all of the bigger turbo advantages without having the k04. 1200 bucks for some new parts on my stock k04 really? sorry doesn't seem worth it to me. as i said, 600 bucks with a reworked PG turbo you get virtually THE SAME GAIN with youre same ole stock k04. its not like your going to get this turbo rebuild and some how bolt it on an magically BAM! 350HP! no way, not possible. for that you're going to HAVE to get tuned to even come close to seeing those numbers. and the way these cars are tuned stock is just garbage in the first place. so of course im going to get retuned. with just intake inlet tbe an some other minor bolt ons the car runs like ass quite honestly and its cause these cars were tuned to be quick but most of all economical. which is garbage. im not saying i dont like my speed cause, I LOVE MY CAR. i bought this car over an sti and an evo, its just a fun car to drive, if you're modding this car with a budget or to go a cheaper route its set for an epic fail. it's SWEET companies are taking more interest in our cars unlike whereas COBB just jumping ship. which is why i wont support them, id rather spend my money on a cp-e standback system. a little more expensive but has a lot more potential. just my .02

[MSMS3]

i bought this car over an sti and an evo, its just a fun car to drive, if you're modding this car with a budget or to go a cheaper route its set for an epic fail.

Hey, what are your current mods? What are your plans?

[cpolly69]

if im wanting to go crazy with power, yeah i would def opt for the gt28, why not? a couple of hundred bucks more you get all of the bigger turbo advantages without having the k04. 1200 bucks for some new parts on my stock k04 really? sorry doesn't seem worth it to me. as i said, 600 bucks with a reworked PG turbo you get virtually THE SAME GAIN with youre same ole stock k04. its not like your going to get this turbo rebuild and some how bolt it on an magically BAM! 350HP! no way, not possible. for that you're going to HAVE to get tuned to even come close to seeing those numbers. and the way these cars are tuned stock is just garbage in the first place. so of course im going to get retuned. with just intake inlet tbe an some other minor bolt ons the car runs like ass quite honestly and its cause these cars were tuned to be quick but most of all economical. which is garbage. im not saying i dont like my speed cause, I LOVE MY CAR. i bought this car over an sti and an evo, its just a fun car to drive, if you're modding this car with a budget or to go a cheaper route its set for an epic fail. it's SWEET companies are taking more interest in our cars unlike whereas COBB just jumping ship. which is why i wont support them, id rather spend my money on a cp-e standback system. a little more expensive but has a lot more potential. just my .02

so you're saying we should all spend top of the line money on everything or not at all? most of the folks i know saying that and doing it spend most of their time rebuilding what ever they blew up last week - yeah i don't buy that at all - there's different levels of what you want achieve with your mods on this car and at each level there's quality parts and crap - some may want a little better then stock hp/performance - some may want big numbers - i personally don't see the point of more then about 300 or so (true mustang dyno) wheel hp on this car as it can't put it to the ground for crap on the stock drive train setup - you're not going to see me grabbing up parts from some hack that's been on the vendor section of a forum for a little while - but there's nothing wrong with a good company who's gotta a good solid rep for building turbos taking a stab at coming up with a real "bolt on" solution for the car's turbo - yeah it will prob. need tuning b/c with so much air it will prob wind up lean - but it will spool different then a reworked k04 and will probably have a different surgeline and may in fact move and shape the air differently then the stock or rewrked unit making a totally different hp curve on the car - it's a legitimate mid level mod and if it can be worked in combination with the ms3's vehicle specific problems i think it's great!

[essejkcamraw]

Hey, what are your current mods? What are your plans?

mods are injen CAI. HKS bpv. turboXS tbe. trz mm. rpmc turbo inlet. denso iridium plugs. and probably about to buy standback an a front mount. goals, none really. but i guess at MOST 300hp? mainly just wanted minor bolt ons and tune so it could be something that will move and be reliable. i dont track the car or race it. so its not something i go out an beat the piss out of. why do you ask?


so you're saying we should all spend top of the line money on everything or not at all? most of the folks i know saying that and doing it spend most of their time rebuilding what ever they blew up last week - yeah i don't buy that at all - there's different levels of what you want achieve with your mods on this car and at each level there's quality parts and crap - some may want a little better then stock hp/performance - some may want big numbers - i personally don't see the point of more then about 300 or so (true mustang dyno) wheel hp on this car as it can't put it to the ground for crap on the stock drive train setup - you're not going to see me grabbing up parts from some hack that's been on the vendor section of a forum for a little while - but there's nothing wrong with a good company who's gotta a good solid rep for building turbos taking a stab at coming up with a real "bolt on" solution for the car's turbo - yeah it will prob. need tuning b/c with so much air it will prob wind up lean - but it will spool different then a reworked k04 and will probably have a different surgeline and may in fact move and shape the air differently then the stock or rewrked unit making a totally different hp curve on the car - it's a legitimate mid level mod and if it can be worked in combination with the ms3's vehicle specific problems i think it's great!


touche!

[cpolly69]

you sound like all i ever wanted - which was all the bolt on parts and a good tune - i wouldn't even be looking at turbo idea until i discovered running catless kills your turbo seals - i am going to do a pg reworked and weld a cat back into my mid pipe - i don't think you can safely go catless on this car unless you go ball bearing turbo - you should check your seals - what's your car do with that tbe after you let it idle for 10 min with the ac on?

[essejkcamraw]

you sound like all i ever wanted - which was all the bolt on parts and a good tune - i wouldn't even be looking at turbo idea until i discovered running catless kills your turbo seals - i am going to do a pg reworked and weld a cat back into my mid pipe - i don't think you can safely go catless on this car unless you go ball bearing turbo - you should check your seals - what's your car do with that tbe after you let it idle for 10 min with the ac on?

as of right now, nothing. i have not had a problem with the tbe as of yet. except that the turboXS exhaust is just really loud. im thinking of getting an HKS exhaust and keep the turboXS DP/RP just to quiet it down a bit. i've had the a/c on an sitting at idle for a solid 45mins or so before. (florida humidity/heat sucks) while a buddy worked on a car before and had no problem. im dreading that sometime im going to start seeing some smoke though as i've heard of smoking turbo issues with full TBE (nailbyt)

[MSMS3]

mods are injen CAI. HKS bpv. turboXS tbe. trz mm. rpmc turbo inlet. denso iridium plugs. and probably about to buy standback an a front mount. goals, none really. but i guess at MOST 300hp? mainly just wanted minor bolt ons and tune so it could be something that will move and be reliable. i dont track the car or race it. so its not something i go out an beat the piss out of. why do you ask?

I was just wonder where you were in the mod process. Pretty close to where I am, maybe a bit more. I've not seen the need for an aftermarket BPV or an turbo inlet or even a rear motor mount, but put down some pretty respectable numbers with the CAI and catless DP/RP into stock CBE. - 5.1 seconds to 60, 0-100 is 11.5 plus or minus a tenth, and quarter at 13.4 all of stock ECU and stock wheels and tires.

I took care of the loudness and drone by welding a straight through reso in the middle of the RP. Worked great and no power loss.

I don't see a need for a turbo upgrade either at this point. But if I went that way it would be mild -- I don't want to lose low end torque/response and don't want any increased boost lag. The guys that want to go big turbo need to think hard about the fact that there's probably a 350 whp limit on reliability of our internals and on the rest of the drive train.

With you mods you are probably putting down about 270 whp or so which would be maybe 15% more at the crank, or about 300-310 at the crank. This is up about 45-50 horses over stock, wouldn't you think? That's pretty respectable and pretty close to your goal.

I disagree with those who say that running catless DP/RP's will shorten the life of the seals on our journal bearing K04. Will it maybe cause a bit of smoke if you sit a long time at idle? Maybe, sometimes. I sometimes see a little smoke on "take off" after sitting at idle in slow traffic, but it is infrequent and no more than with several other modded high boost catless DP/RP cars I've owned over the years, including some that had ball bearing shafts in the turbo. Most of my problems were solved with a catch can. There are other things that can be done to relieve oil pressure on the seals in the turbo without decreasing vital oil flow to the bearings, but that's beyond this thread.

I haven't seen the need for a tune and prefer to run rich and stay at stock boost, just as a safety measure. I'm not convinced there's a lot to be gained by leaning our our engines anyway, which is where we get most of the power gain from a tune.

I'm happy where I am. I might consider, way on down the road, a reworked K04. I did have a Garrett T-04 reworked on a SAAB I owned -- same sort of work as PG offers, and did see an improvement in performance at the high end of the power band without losing anything down low. I thought it was a good compromise and still do. The car had 75,000 miles on it and the turbo was starting to make some bearing noise (not smoking), so it was time to either rebuild it or replace it. The rebuild with the bigger compressor wheel and clipped turbine wheel, etc, was worth the work and was relatively inexpensive at the time (way cheaper than a new turbo) so I'm not ruling that out.

I'm just not sure about the plan to put modified Garrett internals in a modified K04 housing. We know what the PG upgrade can do. I'd want to wait and see some real world experience with this new proposed product. That's just the caution in me.

[mazdaspeed32007]

I was just wonder where you were in the mod process. Pretty close to where I am, maybe a bit more. I've not seen the need for an aftermarket BPV or an turbo inlet or even a rear motor mount, but put down some pretty respectable numbers with the CAI and catless DP/RP into stock CBE. - 5.1 seconds to 60, 0-100 is 11.5 plus or minus a tenth, and quarter at 13.4 all of stock ECU and stock wheels and tires.

do you have slips to show this? those are some incredible numbers dude. esp. withyour mod setup

[MSMS3]

do you have slips to show this? those are some incredible numbers dude. esp. withyour mod setup

Pretty normal actually for a good intake and opened up exhaust. Lots of guys running similar times. I'll try to pull up a slip and post. Best way to show all of the data, however especially 0-100 mph and other intermediate times, shift points and rpm relationships is with a good accelerometer that can also generate saved data and make charts from the data. The G-Tech Pro RR is very accurate and has been consistently within one tenth of a second of strip timers . It does read about one mph high on trap speed because it measures absolute quarter mile speed at the end, while the strip timers average the last 66 feet.

Here's some data from some typical runs in good weather back in April. Again, this is nothing much different than many others here with similar mods which can been seen in the posted time slips. Yeah, it shows traction problems hooking up in first and power shifts in third, fourth and fifth. Big, short duration spikes are electrical artifact (need better shielding of the wires to the accelerometer) and should be ignored.

Also, note that accelerometers measure under real world driving conditions and unlike a chassis dyno, show the powerful effect that aerodynamic drag has on pulling power down once you get above 60 mph. And it gets worse as speed increases.

BTW: You can replicate the time v. speed data manually and cheaply with just a simple stop watch. It's easy to do once you get into third and away from all the launch variables and have the ECU giving you full power.

[ericrapp]

i am stiil subscribed to this thread. the discussion is interesting and opinions and facts are tied well. The only comment i would have at this point is the theory of exhaust back pressure being maintained on the journal bearings. Not my exp. but it has been mentioned before, in other threads. That the K03, and 4 prefer back pressure for longevity. If i have to replace mine i would go with ball bearing regardless of sizing. i think that the opinions are that they will spool quicker due to even less mechanical resistance to make up for the lag that a slightly larger unit non BB unit would create.

[mazdaspeed32007]

Pretty normal actually for a good intake and opened up exhaust. Lots of guys running similar times. I'll try to pull up a slip and post. Best way to show all of the data, however especially 0-100 mph and other intermediate times, shift points and rpm relationships is with a good accelerometer that can also generate saved data and make charts from the data. The G-Tech Pro RR is very accurate and has been consistently within one tenth of a second of strip timers . It does read about one mph high on trap speed because it measures absolute quarter mile speed at the end, while the strip timers average the last 66 feet.

Here's some data from some typical runs in good weather back in April. Again, this is nothing much different than many others here with similar mods which can been seen in the posted time slips. Yeah, it shows traction problems hooking up in first and power shifts in third, fourth and fifth. Big, short duration spikes are electrical artifact (need better shielding of the wires to the accelerometer) and should be ignored.

Also, note that accelerometers measure under real world driving conditions and unlike a chassis dyno, show the powerful effect that aerodynamic drag has on pulling power down once you get above 60 mph. And it gets worse as speed increases.

BTW: You can replicate the time v. speed data manually and cheaply with just a simple stop watch. It's easy to do once you get into third and away from all the launch variables and have the ECU giving you full power.

not sure if this makes a diff but it says your vehicle weight is 3400 lbs. its more like 4200. 325whp with what people put down w twice the mods....im a bit weary but no need to convince me. nice times tho. id like to see it on a track.

[ericrapp]

i believe it is about 3400 with driver but an great performance i agree on stockers.

[MSMS3]

You have to tell the accelerometer the actual rolling weight. Car weighs around 3200 with a tank of gas, but otherwise empty. I weigh 180, plus there's a little junk in the glove box, so I dialed in 3400. I think that's pretty close.

I also put 6,000 rpm in as my shift point, although I shift at a tach indicated 5,500 rpm. Since these are power shifts in the upper gears, and it take a couple tenths to actually complete the shift, that's probably an accurate number. It only affects the shift light feature, which I keep turned off anyway.

I dial in the roll out for 12 inches, which is very important to accuracy since that is pretty close to shallow staging at the strip and can affect ET's by several tenths.

Not trying to sell accelerometers. I just find that a good one, set up properly and downloading and studying the data is one hell of a good tuning aid.

BTW: Peak whp on the rpm v. hp run was about 270, occurring at the beginning of third gear, before it got pulled down by aerodynamic drag - the later tall, short spikes are just artifact that happens during the power shifts - I need to shield the wires better.

Sorry. I accidentally hijacked the thread. I was just trying to point out that we can do pretty well with minor mods and that the PG turbo upgrade makes the most sense to me until we get reliable data on the new option being discussed.

[Speedkid]

what kind of dyno.

[essejkcamraw]

I was just wonder where you were in the mod process. Pretty close to where I am, maybe a bit more. I've not seen the need for an aftermarket BPV or an turbo inlet or even a rear motor mount, but put down some pretty respectable numbers with the CAI and catless DP/RP into stock CBE. - 5.1 seconds to 60, 0-100 is 11.5 plus or minus a tenth, and quarter at 13.4 all of stock ECU and stock wheels and tires.

I took care of the loudness and drone by welding a straight through reso in the middle of the RP. Worked great and no power loss.

I don't see a need for a turbo upgrade either at this point. But if I went that way it would be mild -- I don't want to lose low end torque/response and don't want any increased boost lag. The guys that want to go big turbo need to think hard about the fact that there's probably a 350 whp limit on reliability of our internals and on the rest of the drive train.

With you mods you are probably putting down about 270 whp or so which would be maybe 15% more at the crank, or about 300-310 at the crank. This is up about 45-50 horses over stock, wouldn't you think? That's pretty respectable and pretty close to your goal.

I disagree with those who say that running catless DP/RP's will shorten the life of the seals on our journal bearing K04. Will it maybe cause a bit of smoke if you sit a long time at idle? Maybe, sometimes. I sometimes see a little smoke on "take off" after sitting at idle in slow traffic, but it is infrequent and no more than with several other modded high boost catless DP/RP cars I've owned over the years, including some that had ball bearing shafts in the turbo. Most of my problems were solved with a catch can. There are other things that can be done to relieve oil pressure on the seals in the turbo without decreasing vital oil flow to the bearings, but that's beyond this thread.

I haven't seen the need for a tune and prefer to run rich and stay at stock boost, just as a safety measure. I'm not convinced there's a lot to be gained by leaning our our engines anyway, which is where we get most of the power gain from a tune.

I'm happy where I am. I might consider, way on down the road, a reworked K04. I did have a Garrett T-04 reworked on a SAAB I owned -- same sort of work as PG offers, and did see an improvement in performance at the high end of the power band without losing anything down low. I thought it was a good compromise and still do. The car had 75,000 miles on it and the turbo was starting to make some bearing noise (not smoking), so it was time to either rebuild it or replace it. The rebuild with the bigger compressor wheel and clipped turbine wheel, etc, was worth the work and was relatively inexpensive at the time (way cheaper than a new turbo) so I'm not ruling that out.

I'm just not sure about the plan to put modified Garrett internals in a modified K04 housing. We know what the PG upgrade can do. I'd want to wait and see some real world experience with this new proposed product. That's just the caution in me.

id say yes, its probably putting down around 270ish hp. the inlet to me, i thought was a great mod. opens up quite a bit of low end power as the turbo does spool up a little quicker. and the rear mm was just for some peace of mind that i wont have to worry about the stock mount failing cause of all the problems i read up on on the previous models before i purchased my car. so the MM was the first thing i ever bought for the car. then went on to intake. this car responds really well by just allowing it to breath better (intake system and exhaust) up next will be a front mount and then on to a tune, and wont ever touch her again cause im sure i'll be completely happy with how she runs after that.

[cpolly69]

weight....w/out my fat ass

[cpolly69]

with respect to those that disagree - i'm sticking to my guns here - reducing backpressure on this car will get you bad turbo oil seals - the more you take out the faster they will go - most folks don't know they have the issue because they don't let the car set at idle long enough to tell or they have retained 1 high flow cat and it is filtering out the smoke - this isn't just something i've come up with over night - i'm on this forum and 3 others and to be honest of all the fourms that i've seen msf has the most detailed and technically complex threads and posted articles (unfortunately they don't have the most friendly people) but if you do some heavy reading on k04 service bulletins and users experiences they will confirm what i'm saying - if you call ken at pg he will too - so will the folks at su, cpe, and cobb - which is why almost all of them recommend using one of the dps with a high flow cat - if anyone is interested i had a long conversation on my experience with bad seals with ken and i would be happy to email the details about it to you - but trust me - is part of the smoke pcv - yes it is = can your cure some of it with a catch can - sure - will bad oil seals function ok on your car for a pretty long time - its all in the luck of the draw on just how crappy your k04 is - i toasted a brand new one fresh from the dealership replaced under warranty after driving around 100 miles

[ericrapp]

ok. I am just an opinion about the turbo. I have had a biggest top mount. the one that is too much for the stock tune with TBE 3.5. a mscai, And the Corksport full deal. No cats. no catch can. 43000. about twenty k with the exhaust. I drive the snockers out of the car. I am still waiting for smoke. i mean i have expected it for well twenty thou. this is moving further off track. but i still have no smoke, besides rich fuel, and never add oil. I am i an anomaly? So lets not talk about seals on a these any more.i think it is fear mongering. I know there are tons of failure out there. well at least the forum sure reports that to be true. But i will still consider it to be a manufacturing defect. Whether it be a scored shaft, a material weakness or a tolerance issue. I am the perfect candidate for oil smoke. I have let the car idle for great lengths after running super hard. i really did try to get it to smoke, short of a no cool down or proper warming before boost. i do respect everyone else's exp on this, but i am being honest as can be on this.

[cpolly69]

i have a buddy close by that i often talk to b/c he's further along then me in the mods - and he went for a very long time w/out smoke and the same amount of mods you have and more - it's really hit or miss and to tell you the truth it's not fear mongering unless you're the one selling car parts - it is true a total discussion on smoke from catless exhaust is getting off the point of this thread, but i will say i brought it up initially because it was my concern that the same thing would happen on this upgraded turbo b/c it's a journal bearing turbo

[ericrapp]

And rightly so. A justified concern. Something we all should be prepared for with this style/design of turbocharger. The fear factor i referred to was not based upon this thread but what i have seen since mid 2007. A turboback exhaust( low to no back pressure) = oil smoke. Thanks for your response and patience. I will back off as to get back to the theme of the positive side of a turbo upgrade.

[Darth Vader]

Since we're in full thread jack....

Car weighs 3100 pounds full of fuel, w/o driver. Dragstrip certified scale.

Accelerometers? I have an older G-tech Pro. I can move that mph around 5-8 mph easily just by playing with the car. Is it really going 5-8 mph differently each time? Nope, again dragstrip verifies it reads more than 1 mph high, that's for sure, more like up to 8 by my testing and, it always reads high. ET's a bit more in the ballpark of dragstrip experiences but, mph is way off, most of the time, even though G-tech made the same 1 mph claim back then.

Useful as a tuning aid, to a degree but, like the dyno, best not make bragging points out of the absolute #s.

[cpolly69]

to me in car electronics are for data logging, engine management adjustment, and entertainment -
the dyno is for tuning and the drag strip is for measuring performance

[MSMS3]

Since we're in full thread jack....

Car weighs 3100 pounds full of fuel, w/o driver. Dragstrip certified scale.

Accelerometers? I have an older G-tech Pro. I can move that mph around 5-8 mph easily just by playing with the car. Is it really going 5-8 mph differently each time? Nope, again dragstrip verifies it reads more than 1 mph high, that's for sure, more like up to 8 by my testing and, it always reads high. ET's a bit more in the ballpark of dragstrip experiences but, mph is way off, most of the time, even though G-tech made the same 1 mph claim back then.

Useful as a tuning aid, to a degree but, like the dyno, best not make bragging points out of the absolute #s.

Hoping to end the jack! The G-Tech Pro RR I use is a current gen model and is a huge improvement over the older models. But you are correct that like dynos, absolutes should be treated with caution. Some of the absolutes like time, distance traveled are accurate and can be verified by stop watch, tach and speedometer. I'm seeing one or two mph trap speed difference, always higher on the G-Tech. Everything else is very close. It is a good tuning tool.

And the new gen models produce very consistent readings from run to run, unlike older ones. Even drag strip slips have limited use because of changing track condition, the lane you run in and whether you happen to hit your launch perfectly, get every shift in at the best shift point, etc. Very few guys post anything except what they think is their best effort under the most ideal conditions. That may not be very helpful for tuning purposes either.

But close correlation between a good accelerometer set up correctly and your drag strip slip will really build confidence in knowing if your mods are going in the right direction and producing the results you are looking for. That's because you get so much more data from the newer accelerometers.

Sorry about the jack. You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming -- comparing turbo upgrades!

[Rainman]

Interesting discussion. Something to think about for upgrading the MS3.

R

[meicalnissyen]

The short answer is reliability... the K04 with the 5mm shaft is never going to push that much power as easily as the upgrade.

The idea is to bolt on a reliable upgraded snail that can better make use of all the other mods you are going to install or already have... no matter how you cut it this turbo flows more than the K04 - so if you wanna turn up the boost and exceed BNR's specs - and your willing to take the risk; then have at it.

5mm shaft????????????????

wow, to survive that stock shaft must be made of unobtanium

[mazdaspeed32007]

weight....w/out my fat ass

WHERE THE F*** DID I SEE 4200?!?!?! i think it says gvw is 4200 lbs. in the door. soooo that must mean 4200 full with fliuds and passengers....3200 is dead weight. sweet.

[Darth Vader]

My '08 is 3100 pounds full of fuel and is loaded with every option except Nav.

[camrycev6]

This is exactly what I did to my MKIII Supra turbo. K04E upgrade in the stock housing. But it only cost me a couple of hundred bucks to have a local turbo specialist do the work. In fact, it was his idea to upgrade- I was just there for a rebuild.

Mind you, this guy was well beyond the R&D phase for the Toyota unit, so he could churn them out quickly at minimal expense.

Could be a good option, especially for those who want to upgrade & either not blow the warranty, or just get some stealth power nobody will spot under the hood.

How would this not potentially affect the warranty? You don't think the dealers would be able to figure this one out the minute they take a look at the computer? This turbo would be doing something very different than an unaltered stock one.

[Flightmedic]

How would this not potentially affect the warranty? You don't think the dealers would be able to figure this one out the minute they take a look at the computer? This turbo would be doing something very different than an unaltered stock one.

Chances are people putting a bigger turbo already have gone into no warranty land with all the other bolt ons that come before big turbo.

[Darth Vader]

Yep, tough to imagine bolting a stock downpipe to your new big turbo and, I expect the wastegate actuator setup is proprietary to the MS3.

[cpolly69]

Yep, tough to imagine bolting a stock downpipe to your new big turbo and, I expect the wastegate actuator setup is proprietary to the MS3.

wastegate actuation from factory is a boost/vac bleeding system controlled by the ecu - it's got it's advantages and disadvantages - it's control can be manipulated with either of the most popular tuning devices

[ericrapp]

Would you give a little pro and con? also there is some adjustment on our acuator rod isn't there? any one played with it?

[mazdaspeed32007]

Would you give a little pro and con? also there is some adjustment on our acuator rod isn't there? any one played with it?

i think there was a write up on this....someone dicked around with it before but i cant remember if it was adjustable or not

[Darth Vader]

I understand how the wastegate control works, I just said it's probably proprietary to our KO4, thus giving away the switch if the car returns to the dealer.

The wastegate rod is NOT adjustable. The old MSP one was but, not the new car. You could do some creative bending, like we did in the bad old days but, good results are hard to get.

[ericrapp]

I would have sworn that i saw some threads turned on that A rod when i was installing my downpipe. Are you sure?

[creedns]

330 at the wheels is all? I'm puttin 317 on the stock turbo. Lets see 370 out that bitch!!!

[ericrapp]

I thought all you Northern west coast peace loving hippies were non aggressive, but 317 at the wheels is a well built/tuned 2.3.

[Darth Vader]

Maybe I missed them the last time I was back there, I'm pretty sure I didn't see any. I looked closely but, I was looking from the top not, the bottom.
Threads wouldn't necessarily make it adjustable either, even if they are there. It might just be the attachment threads for the end, iow, you could loosen it a bit but not tighten it, which is what you'd want, I think.

[cpolly69]

no threads - bout the only thing you could do is drill another hole at the end - but it's all a bad idea - you can get great control of it thru the electronics and that's the easiest way to go -

[mazdaspeed32007]

no threads - bout the only thing you could do is drill another hole at the end - but it's all a bad idea - you can get great control of it thru the electronics and that's the easiest way to go -

thats probably where i saw it was "adjustable". not mechanically but eletronically.

[ericrapp]

Ok. Gotcha. I think i have some of those things lying around here that i never installed. nor will i. Turbo smart, turboxs stuff. Clamps and boost tees and such. i am thinking accessport next year with the pro tune feature. Would that be effective with the turbo upgrades? is the Cobb very flexible when taking over the tuning yourself? We have mentioned the K04. And that the ecu probably will handle some of the increased flow and some more boost, but at what point do you folks think the stock ecu is unable to handle the new parameters. This is almost as important as the strength of the rods to me. I guess to rephrase, when does the turbo upgrade become more than a bolt on improvement? I certainly have plenty of bolt ons that i am not making full use of because i am not tuned in yet.

[cpolly69]

well i can tell you what i know about the walls that you can run into when your modding goes past the ecu's limits - the biggest one is af ratio - when you push all the bolt ons on the car you can make it dip into the low 9's - eventually you will run into most refer to as "fuel cut" the ecu will basically shut everything off and it will feel like you hit a wall for a few sec. - it's enough to make you drop about 20mph if you are on the interstate - there's also boost cut which does the same thing - then there's the opposite side of the problem - too lean (which is the most dangerous of the 2) - if you did a way better turbo it's possible it would move so much air that you would be lean - if you're hitting like 13 or 14 at wot you are prob on the path to destruction -
so adjusting afr, boost control thru this vac line/bleeding system, throttle plate mapping, and timing adjustments are all stuff to look forward to with either the cobb ap or the sb - if you go cobb you will want to get auto tune race (free dl off the website)- and the best thing to do would to get on a dyno at a well known shop that knows the cobb software to make a great custom tune for you - they have tons of tunes for different part combos and they will make you one if you send them datalog info. but the best is somebody doing it live making adjustments on the fly -
as for using the ap/sb to get the factory boost control to work on an upgraded turbo - it works just fine - manual and independent electronic boost control are also other options as well..

[ericrapp]

Thanks for the details. my son in law is a tuner. Team Redline. He has some of the fastest and most reliable ummm (H's) i have seen or ridden in. so i would hand it off to him. He has explained alot to me. He uses the chrome? now and knows the in and outs. Of that particular brand, which are very easy to handle compared to ours. Damn maf's I had a greddy e manage in hand two years ago ready to start tuning, but have been waiting for folks to figure our cars out. I see that it will not work on my car. Been watching this tuning thing since before i bought mine in 3/07. If it can be done with the Cobb, to get control I will give it to him and let him have at it. It was not that long ago that we could only run base maps. But it seems the ecu is now finally accessible. Thanks for all the knowledge you have been sharing. I am starting to feel more secure that the Mazdaspeed 3 can be built up mechanically because the tuning tools are available and the ecu will not continue to fight. Is that a reasonable statement? again thanks sir

[creedns]

I thought all you Northern west coast peace loving hippies were non aggressive, but 317 at the wheels is a well built/tuned 2.3.

Peace loving hippie??? HAHAHAHA I don't live in eugene or portland man, gimme guns explosions and boobies!!! And i can thank that 317 to a great tune by surgeline. Too bad my turbo is leakin oil :( bye bye 2nd turbo

[cpolly69]

Thanks for the details. my son in law is a tuner. Team Redline. He has some of the fastest and most reliable ummm (H's) i have seen or ridden in. so i would hand it off to him. He has explained alot to me. He uses the chrome? now and knows the in and outs. Of that particular brand, which are very easy to handle compared to ours. Damn maf's I had a greddy e manage in hand two years ago ready to start tuning, but have been waiting for folks to figure our cars out. I see that it will not work on my car. Been watching this tuning thing since before i bought mine in 3/07. If it can be done with the Cobb, to get control I will give it to him and let him have at it. It was not that long ago that we could only run base maps. But it seems the ecu is now finally accessible. Thanks for all the knowledge you have been sharing. I am starting to feel more secure that the Mazdaspeed 3 can be built up mechanically because the tuning tools are available and the ecu will not continue to fight. Is that a reasonable statement? again thanks sir

cobb is just the first device that's allowed us to flash in changes on to the chips in the ecu - the cpe standback has allowed use to trick our ecu into doing what we want for a few years now - they started with the major custom tunes first and pretty much hold the record for biggest hp right now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fk2Wd2DziE

[ericrapp]

Well thanks i had to watch you tube for half an hour. But yes the other company i first noticed was CP-E. But i was not aware they had gotten that far. Very impressive. is there a build sheet for that car? By the way, may i pm you i have gotten way off thread and have some more questions? And creedns, i am sorry to hear about the oil. Hope she feels better real soon. peace , man..and boobies of course!

[PPO2Kane]

Somehow this site stopped sending me emails when people reply.

Sorry guys.

Bryan has 4-5 cores in his shop working the CNC specs; I should be able to start tuning MoneyBoy's in a few weeks.

[ericrapp]

Is there a place i can view the intricate details of changes? I really am interested in this product from an engineering stand point. But i am in need of the factuals.Although i still look forward to posts that just say "pulls much harder, longer " or something to that effect!

[PPO2Kane]

SU / other / evil Forum has all the details from Bryan.

You can also go to his website www.bnrturbos.com to look at all his other stuff.

[ericrapp]

cobb is just the first device that's allowed us to flash in changes on to the chips in the ecu - the cpe standback has allowed use to trick our ecu into doing what we want for a few years now - they started with the major custom tunes first and pretty much hold the record for biggest hp right now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fk2Wd2DziEI was reading up a little and it appears that CP-e is controlling output voltages to injectors, timing and boost. Am i incorrect on that. I do not want to fool the inputs. No tricking?

[ericrapp]

opps just missed that, i will def check that out thanks.

[08CWP_SoCal_MS3]

cobb is just the first device that's allowed us to flash in changes on to the chips in the ecu - the cpe standback has allowed use to trick our ecu into doing what we want for a few years now - they started with the major custom tunes first and pretty much hold the record for biggest hp right now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fk2Wd2DziE

There's a video of a Black Mica MS3 putting down 433whp floating around on youtube right now... Not sure how legit it is or who tuned it.

[PPO2Kane]

I was reading up a little and it appears that CP-e is controlling output voltages to injectors, timing and boost. Am i incorrect on that. I do not want to fool the inputs. No tricking?

While the learning curve is steeper - you really cannot beat changing the pcm itself... it is the right way to go - I've done piggy backs and the Cobb, tuning the Cobb is harder but the results are 1000000000000% better.

[ericrapp]

I am glad to hear that. What is it that is more difficult with the Cobb?

quote)There's a video of a Black Mica MS3 putting down 433whp floating around on youtube right now... Not sure how legit it is or who tuned it.
__________________

Is there some search words to save me some time?

[Captain KRM P5]

speed3shon has put down 440whp on a built motor with lower compression pistons, big turbo and nitrous tuned on an accessport with zero cut.

[PPO2Kane]

I am glad to hear that. What is it that is more difficult with the Cobb?

More nuanced... there are a lot of tables that interact; and figuring them out and knowing what to tune to get your results is a lot of R&D

[ericrapp]

Thanks gentleman, both.

[PPO2Kane]

A bird told me Bryan is back to work.

[PPO2Kane]

Looks like the first group went out in the mail.

[Zoomzoom17]

Anyone know if he would build a turbo for the 2.0L? I've been searching for one since I can't get a decent deal on a trade in for a Speed.

[PPO2Kane]

If it is not factory turbocharged - then you are still going to need all the piping, engine management etc...

[Zoomzoom17]

http://www.hiboost.com/KITMAZDA3.htm

Would that take care of it all or would I need more parts?

[BoostisLove]

Peace loving hippie??? HAHAHAHA I don't live in eugene or portland man, gimme guns explosions and boobies!!! And i can thank that 317 to a great tune by surgeline. Too bad my turbo is leakin oil :( bye bye 2nd turbo

I'm curious as to what mods you are using to attain these numbers...

[PPO2Kane]

http://www.hiboost.com/KITMAZDA3.htm

Would that take care of it all or would I need more parts?

That would about do it...

[Bryan@BNR]

I didn't know about this thread or else I would have chimed in earlier! Well the CNC programs are done and everything is complete and several units are out and running now. There is now an optional 2 year warranty. If you have oil seal issues, we can do the total seal on the compressor. You will have to swap over to non synthetic but it will cure the oil leakage!

Bryan@BNR
205 640 1193

[PPO2Kane]

I've tuned one... and it makes a really nice difference!!!! Even at 10 AFR's; holy smokes.

[destrux]

id say yes, its probably putting down around 270ish hp. the inlet to me, i thought was a great mod. opens up quite a bit of low end power as the turbo does spool up a little quicker. and the rear mm was just for some peace of mind that i wont have to worry about the stock mount failing cause of all the problems i read up on on the previous models before i purchased my car. so the MM was the first thing i ever bought for the car. then went on to intake. this car responds really well by just allowing it to breath better (intake system and exhaust) up next will be a front mount and then on to a tune, and wont ever touch her again cause im sure i'll be completely happy with how she runs after that.

That's pretty much the exact route I'm taking. Except, I'm leaving the stock DP in there. I don't want to chance causing my car to smoke again. It did it stock, and it went away when I installed the 2.5" turbo inlet pipe. Next I want the cobb AP, fuel pump upgrade (to be safe), and a FMIC. Then I'm pretty much done. I probably won't be adding any of this for a while though, I'm parting out my DSM to fund a new 240sx project car (lol) (hoping for 400-500hp out of the stock KA24DE when all is said and done). I can't tear into the speed3 much with my wife using it for work all the time anyway. (gah) If it breaks down or acts funny I get yelled at.


This car hits a wall of money at 350hp that some people won't want to climb over (engine internals, clutch upgrade, custom turbo fitment), so making a turbo that does well up to just that point makes alot of sense.

If it doesn't smoke.

[C.A.T.A.P]

wow that was a great read up. i would love to know if anyone in ga has goten there speed3 tuned and if so where and numbers cuz im at the point where i need one and i have the cobb ap by the way and turbo xs dp/rp and corksport catback

[racersir]

Hmm this is a very interesting option Stage 2 sound nice I will love to see a dyno to see what are they putting down

[Champloo]

I didn't know about this thread or else I would have chimed in earlier! Well the CNC programs are done and everything is complete and several units are out and running now. There is now an optional 2 year warranty. If you have oil seal issues, we can do the total seal on the compressor. You will have to swap over to non synthetic but it will cure the oil leakage!

Bryan@BNR
205 640 1193


I'm not sure if this has already been covered - I keep finding new information about your turbo rebuilds in different threads - it sounds like you're saying that we'll need to switch to conventional oil if we get your turbo rebuild. Is that correct? Is doing the total seal on the compressor optional or is that just part of the package?

Thanks!

[240ka]

no way will i ever run dino oil in a piston turbo motor

[blackwidow]

no way will i ever run dino oil in a piston turbo motor

+100000 (drive)