what would happen if i ran VTA

[18psiWhiteMS3]

i would love to run VTA on my HKS. what would happen if i did that???? im using the cobb AP with mods in my sig

[evilmonkeyMSP]

most likely the 2nd coming of Jesus....
what would happen if i did that???

[mattj3636]

absolutely nothing, youd run the exact same and youd have the nice loud VTA sound.

people are gonna chime in and be like NO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ITS A RECIRC CAR DONT DO IT! YOULL BACKFIRE A LITTLE BIT MORE AND YOULL RUN RICH FOR A SPLIT SECONDS IN BETWEEN SHIFTS!

blah blah. do it man, i love it and dont regret it.

[18psiWhiteMS3]

thanks man. someone told me its bad for the cat. is that tru? i can care less about being rich for a split second. rich is good. and when does the car backfire. the same moment inbetween shifts when its rich??

[mattj3636]

iv been told it ruins the cats, iv had the stock cats on and the VTA for about 30,000 miles and havnt had a problem yet, so from experience, i dont see anyhting... cats go bad from running rich, our cars run rich stock so either way, and honesly, backfiring is very minimal, i rarely get it anymore, when i first installed it it was at low speeds, like driving through parking lots or something, stuff like that, but i think it has something to do with the ecu adapting to it, cause i dont backfrire that much anymore.

[240ka]

the car runs like shit in VTA, smells like shit as well as stall out/shut off. but your BOV will sound great haha. i did it with my car. and my Type S sounded amazing but the car ran badily

[mattj3636]

like i said. haha, the hks ssqv vta made SPECIFICALLY for our car has it tuned to our car, car runs just the same as stock, doesnt smell like shit? idk where he got that from...

i cant say for other BOVs, but the HKS made for our car, is perfectly fine to run VTA. dont listent o what people say who havnt run the HKS, cause they dont know.

[meicalnissyen]

most likely the 2nd coming of Jesus....

And I went and missed the first one (dark)

[UHATEIT]

I tried a Greddy type-s in VTA, sounds like sex, but runs like shit.

I have a hks running vta on right now and the car runs fine. The pull type valve will stay shut during idle and will not fuck your shit up like the push type valve will.

Run your HKS in vta and its perfectly fine. I too get minimal backfire, maybe 1 time a day. Sounds decent on VTA, not as sexy as the greddy tho by any means, but at least the car runs better with the HKS

[mattj3636]

thanks for backing me up bro montana, whatd the type s sound like?

[UHATEIT]

thanks for backing me up bro montana, whatd the type s sound like?

the HKS sounds nice vta, very chirpy, car runs perfect, maybe a tad bit of stumble but very minor

The Greddy type-s sound slike an orgasm, loud asss sizzle/whistle. Ear piercing! But that valve can never seem to stay shut at idle the vac pulls it up too much. And if you add too much spring tension by turning the top it will get closer to being closed but never all the way. The it ends up being too "hard" and the piston cant travel as far so it surges. There was no "perfect" setting on that thing. Always too soft or too hard. Loved the sound tho. I was able to adjust it enough to sound pretty decent even when recirculated.

[mattj3636]

i would love to hear that, shit

[UHATEIT]

i would love to hear that, shit

have you ever heard one of those before in person or on youtube? Its pretty bitchin :) I wish it would run as good in vta as the HKS, then I'd have just stuck with it and never bothered spending money on a HKS.

[mattj3636]

lol yeah, im SURE theres a way to get it to run, whether its perfectly fine tuning that or some type of EMS

[sleeperstang199]

most likely the 2nd coming of Jesus....

lol. if you look in the tuning section travis@COBB just wrote a great post.

[UHATEIT]

lol yeah, im SURE theres a way to get it to run, whether its perfectly fine tuning that or some type of EMS

that or relocating the MAF or something.

back when I has an eclipse gs-t years ago I had the greddy type-s on there in vta. it came that way on the car and I didnt knwo much about cars at the time so I didnt know it was bad. But the car ran decently in VTA. So maybe the problems arise depending on the type or setup each car has. I will say tho on the eclipse that is I neutral-ed the car to a stop like pop it into neutral and used the foot brake to slow to a stop sign or corner or whatever, the rpms would drop so low and the car would stall out a lot. I assume that was part of the greddy now that I know a bit more about cars than i did back then.

[18psiWhiteMS3]

im still scared to run it VTA. i want some more people to chime in.
last week i put the hks on but left the stock airbox and i could not hear it what so ever. now when i see these youtube videos it sounds loud. is my BOV not working properly if i cant hear it at all whatsoever in recirculate with stock box

[aalonso]

im still scared to run it VTA. i want some more people to chime in.
last week i put the hks on but left the stock airbox and i could not hear it what so ever. now when i see these youtube videos it sounds loud. is my BOV not working properly if i cant hear it at all whatsoever in recirculate with stock box


im running the HKS bov on VTA and with a stock airbox and it sounds very loud, recirc will not sound that loud so thats why if you want that nice whistle you should put in VTA than you'll hear how bad ass it sounds =]
Btw i have barely have any backfire about once a day and car runs with no problems so give it a try

[Bravnik]

Run it if you wish. Dyno it with other MS3's after you do and see the results.

My Mazda club had about 3 people running VTA HKS on our Dyno day last year. ALL 3 put down numbers WAY lower than others including stock cars. The ECU tunes for it, yep sure does. In a negative manor.

A couple of the same cars all went recirc for our next dyno day and put down numbers that were on par with the other cars with their type of mods.

Both dyno days were at the same dyno.

This was what I saw first hand. However, the best way to test it would be to run HKS VTA for about a week then dyno. Change it to Recirc and run it again for about a week and re-dyno and see if there is any difference. That is really the only true way to tell.

But I have been to 3 dyno days and personally watched every HKS VTA car put down 15-20 less HP than other cars with the same mods. Coincidence? Maybe I guess, but I doubt it.

[SwampAss]

My wife kicks me out of bed when I *VTA.


*covered wagon.



** dutch oven.

[18psiWhiteMS3]

Run it if you wish. Dyno it with other MS3's after you do and see the results.

My Mazda club had about 3 people running VTA HKS on our Dyno day last year. ALL 3 put down numbers WAY lower than others including stock cars. The ECU tunes for it, yep sure does. In a negative manor.

A couple of the same cars all went recirc for our next dyno day and put down numbers that were on par with the other cars with their type of mods.

Both dyno days were at the same dyno.

This was what I saw first hand. However, the best way to test it would be to run HKS VTA for about a week then dyno. Change it to Recirc and run it again for about a week and re-dyno and see if there is any difference. That is really the only true way to tell.

But I have been to 3 dyno days and personally watched every HKS VTA car put down 15-20 less HP than other cars with the same mods. Coincidence? Maybe I guess, but I doubt it.


Very good info, thanks

[eg6motion]

My wife kicks me out of bed when I *VTA.


*covered wagon.



** dutch oven.

lol'd
that would be very bad to recirculate....

[Super Unique]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko3ojrte-I8

[240ka]

Greddy Type S VTA(rockon)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ3ee...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPOEjAnQIlI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkpBSe5DF0E

[240ka]

oh, my check engine likght came on after running in Greddy type S in VTA for like 10mins

[Nutari]

With any aftermarket intake, most BPV/recirc valves sound really loud.

I had a HKS recirculating with a Mazdaspeed CAI and it was super loud.

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/Deathwater/?action=view&current=MOV03627.flv

[guitarsoloist87]

Yea dude just get a a short ram or cold air intake and see how your sound is with whatever bov recirculating before you run vta. You can run it vta but you have to be very careful slowing down. Make sure you use yours gears, otherwise you'll pop the clutch in and the rpms will crash and the car will die. It almost does when you follow this anyways but prevents it from stalling for the most part. Anyways you'll be slower if you vta. Just recirculate. Its not worth the problems that may arise from it plus you can get good enough sound from recirculating. My buddy has a type s recirculating on his evo and it doesn't sound much different than it does when he does vta. Really loud. Just think about being faster and reliable more than aesthetics. Then smile and punk your friends :)

[Kain]

i would love to run VTA on my HKS. what would happen if i did that????

A rift in the space-time continuum.

[mattj3636]

Yea dude just get a a short ram or cold air intake and see how your sound is with whatever bov recirculating before you run vta. You can run it vta but you have to be very careful slowing down. Make sure you use yours gears, otherwise you'll pop the clutch in and the rpms will crash and the car will die. It almost does when you follow this anyways but prevents it from stalling for the most part. Anyways you'll be slower if you vta. Just recirculate. Its not worth the problems that may arise from it plus you can get good enough sound from recirculating. My buddy has a type s recirculating on his evo and it doesn't sound much different than it does when he does vta. Really loud. Just think about being faster and reliable more than aesthetics. Then smile and punk your friends :)


... hmm, come live with me a week and drive with me for a week straight and you tell me if i lost power and you can see if my car dies at all, or runs different. until then, dont post threads like that.

[Bravnik]

... hmm, come live with me a week and drive with me for a week straight and you tell me if i lost power and you can see if my car dies at all, or runs different. until then, dont post threads like that.

Yeah one of the guys at my dyno day said the same thing "My Car Rips on the Street VTA" He pretty much shut up when I put 5 cars on him.

We had basically the same mods as well as the exact same AP Beta Map at the time. He had a TBE and I had a FMIC with a Test Pipe Only, everything else was the same. I put down 286/298 and he put down like 256/280ish give or take.....way lower than he should have.

You really need to dyno against a couple MS3's with your same mods then see how your car does. I'm only posting what I have seen first hand at Mazda Dyno Days with the majority being MS3's. So out of like 10 MS3's the 3 running VTA each put down 15-20WHP less than expected. My feeling on it is that the car detunes for the rich condition over time and this shows up on the Dyno. Thus people reporting they backfired like crazy at first then now they hardly ever do.

Now do keep in mind I'm not a scientist or auto expert. This is just what I have witnessed first hand and based on that I would never run VTA. Your mileage may vary :)

[UHATEIT]

If you dont track your car or spend your weekends running 1/4 mile tracks, then losing the supposed 15-20 hp people talk about probably doesnt matter.

I could care less honestly if that is the case. The car hauls ass when recirculated, and it hauls ass when its VTA, so to me a few less hp, if thats the case doesnt matter

If I like the way the car sounds vta, and it runs fine for me, then fuck it if I lose a few hp in the process. To each his own!

I think Mattj3636 and I are in the same boat.

[GoFast]

If you dont track your car or spend your weekends running 1/4 mile tracks, then losing the supposed 15-20 hp people talk about probably doesnt matter.

I could care less honestly if that is the case. The car hauls ass when recirculated, and it hauls ass when its VTA, so who fuckin cares if its a few hp less> I'm not all fast and the furious going to race some faggot in an eclipse or gti. This isn't the late 90s people.

If I like the way the car sounds vta, and it runs fine for me, then fuck it if I lose a few hp in the process. To each his own!

I think Mattj3636 and I are in the same boat.

First, could we please get a response without the f-bomb and the word faggot in it? I mean does that help your cause?

Secondly, you are basically calling people ricers or fast and furious people, but yet you are doing something that that makes your car slower because you like the sound of it......(ugh)

[evilmonkeyMSP]

I was thinking the same
First, could we please get a response without the f-bomb and the word faggot in it? I mean does that help your cause?

Secondly, you are basically calling people ricers or fast and furious people, but yet you are doing something that that makes your car slower because you like the sound of it......(ugh)

[UHATEIT]

My feeling on it is that the car detunes for the rich condition over time and this shows up on the Dyno. Thus people reporting they backfired like crazy at first then now they hardly ever do.

Now do keep in mind I'm not a scientist or auto expert. This is just what I have witnessed first hand and based on that I would never run VTA. Your mileage may vary :)


this is good info. I will agree that my mileage went down a tad, perhaps 1-2mpg at most. And the whole detuning thing sounds like thats the right thing there. good post.

[mattj3636]

okay well i have dynoed my car with HKS VTA and i dnot have the sheets, and befopre people say I NEED PROOF LET ME SEE THE SHEET and acll me a liar and what not, im jsut saying what iv witnessed in person and idc what you guys say cause i saw it, just like bravnik is stating.

with the corkspotr FMIC/intake/inlet and a bov i put down 274/291 at the wheels. id like to see the 15-20 hp loss, and if its there, i doubt the fmic/intake/inlet added like 50+ hp.

[Jasnall]

absolutely nothing, youd run the exact same and youd have the nice loud VTA sound.
(boom06)
Really? My car does not run for more than 4 seconds when Im VTA, just stalls out. If you read through any of the 300 thread about this you would see there is alot different about running VTA, alot of it in this thread.

Is VTA going to HURT your car, meh hard to say, Its not gonna help it. But if you like the sound go for it. A tune may help the car run stable while VTA.

[mattj3636]

and the type of BOV. since he wants to rnu the HKS, and theres two of us who run it right now who can abck it up and say it runs the exact same as the stock BPV, thats all the evidence he needs really..

if he said greddy type S, he has evidence it ran like shit,

if he said something else, id have no input cause i ghave no experience with it..

since i own and run the HKS VTA im just telling everynoe how my car is with it and how it runs the exact same

[240ka]

isnt the HKS a 50/50?

the TYPE S isnt. so thats why the cars runs like shit with the Type S compared tot he HKS

[Sport6]

isnt the HKS a 50/50?

the TYPE S isnt. so thats why the cars runs like shit with the Type S compared tot he HKS

I believe the HKS is one or the other. Since you have get a separate recirculation fitting for it.

[mattj3636]

yea its etiehr or, im running full VTA

[18psiWhiteMS3]

i wanna run VTA for shifts between 1st 2nd and 3rd but i want it in recirculat for 4th and 5th

[mattj3636]

hmm.. have fun with that.. haha

[guitarsoloist87]

Well all cars run differently based on mods but for the general speed3 population your car will run badly if you do not recirculate. I would rather have my rpms jump a little bit when I put the clutch in than plumet to the ground. Saves me spooling time and hesitation.

[guitarsoloist87]

I could care less about backfiring and not too much about it running rich between shifts. It's just the quality of how it drives. If you drive it right not recirculating you can pretty much stop back fires anyways. There was a video on YouTube with this guy who has a map from some guy at cpe that let's him run vta and it runs fine

[mattj3636]

or if you run the hks, you run fine without a map or a tune.

[18psiWhiteMS3]

i think VTA is better cause i look at it like this, if i had a tube from my ass recirculating to my mouth that would suck and i would not be able to function well but if i VTA my ass the smell wont bother me and ill be able to perform at my peak performance. so in order to perform at your peak you need to VTA

[GoFast]

so Brian, was this entire thread started for the sole purpose of starting a debate, entertainment, to screw with people, or did it just end up that way??

[18psiWhiteMS3]

it just ended up that way. i honestly wanted to know cause i was contemplating it. But since i have a cat i want it to last longer so i decided to go recirculate. Im more for the car running the way it should rather then for what it sounds like

[Super Unique]

now your coming around to a sound line of thinking. Besides, who cares about silly noises when you can go faster?

[Bravnik]

Rofl - Besides an HKS sounds like your venting the air up a cats ass and he screams each time.

[Wastegate13]

This entire forum is the DSMtuners newbie section v2.

"look ma, my first turbo car!"

Just to stay on topic my car ran like shit with an HKS valve VTA. Recirculated it ran perfectly fine but I did not care for the valve itself. Finally got my hands on a genuine Greddy type s and I now run that recirculated.

[squidmotion]

it just ended up that way. i honestly wanted to know cause i was contemplating it. But since i have a cat i want it to last longer so i decided to go recirculate. Im more for the car running the way it should rather then for what it sounds like


lots of internet posts end this way... this would be much more fun if we were all at a lil' texas bar drinking beer and ranting about this stuff.... :)


i'm totally into the car running like it should... even a heavily modded car, if you plan to drive it on the street, should have good manners... i bet this isn't lost on the OP or mattj.....

i also believe the computer can catch up to things... i have seen it in effect on more than enough cars... crud, i put the k&n in my tundra, and it balked a few times during a day or two... now runs like a mule... a mule that is on fire.