2009 v 2010

[Pinnacle]

Hey guys.

The Mrs. and I have been test driving a lot of vehicles and have narrowed down a few choices. The Mazda 5 being a front runner...except it does not come with traction or stability control. I find this to be odd as Mazda is labeling this as the family hauler. Canadian winters make these options attractive.

We are on the verge of making a purchase...but we may hold off if new information becomes available. So my question is does anyone know what the 2010 model year will bring? The 2010 Mazda 3 came out early and now has traction and stability control. Will the Mazda 5 follow suit? I also heard the bigger 2.5 engine may be an option. (drive)

Thanks!

[mazdaspeedster3]

Mazda 3 has had TC for several years now. I dont think much of a change will come out of the 5 for 2010 as it is getting a total refresh in 2011

[Pinnacle]

I dont think much of a change will come out of the 5 for 2010 as it is getting a total refresh in 2011


Is that speculation though? (dunno)

[mazdaspeedster3]

Speculation? I have been asking my sales rep for two years when the 5 was going to get traction control. When it didnt for 09 I bought a used one, 07 with 15k miles for $15,000. Touring with Nav, couldnt pass it up. The little bit talked about it all people say is they hope it gets traction control. I can tell you though it does pretty darn good in the snow/ice the way it is.

[Pinnacle]

Speculation? I have been asking my sales rep for two years when the 5 was going to get traction control. When it didnt for 09 I bought a used one, 07 with 15k miles for $15,000. Touring with Nav, couldnt pass it up. The little bit talked about it all people say is they hope it gets traction control. I can tell you though it does pretty darn good in the snow/ice the way it is.

Good to know. Thx! We may get a used one too...but definitely will get some winter tires for it.

[Heat]

Isn't electronic stability control required for all vehicles by 2011 or 2012? (in the US)

Not that I agree with this requirement - too big brotherish. Oh well.

By the way, if you are waiting until 2010 or 2011, it's possible that Toyota or Honda could bring their 6-passenger small van to the US market. Toyota was supposed to have it this year but it was changed into the return of the Toyota Camry station wagon, also known as the Toyota Flex.

[FYF]

But Toyota isn't the zoom-zoom company. :p

[Pinnacle]

Isn't electronic stability control required for all vehicles by 2011 or 2012? (in the US)

Not that I agree with this requirement - too big brotherish. Oh well.

By the way, if you are waiting until 2010 or 2011, it's possible that Toyota or Honda could bring their 6-passenger small van to the US market. Toyota was supposed to have it this year but it was changed into the return of the Toyota Camry station wagon, also known as the Toyota Flex.

IF we knew there were big changes in the 2010 model we would discuss waiting for it...but who knows what is coming in September.

Do you have any links for the Toyota small van?

[Rockin03mp5]

why does everybody want traction and stability control?

i dont like abs even. i just dont like the computer overriding me!

and the 5 does just fine in the snow. just take it easy, it is not a jeep.

[antlind]

and the 5 does just fine in the snow. just take it easy, it is not a jeep.


I disagree....my '5' sucks in icy conditions...too my torque up front. I usually have to move off in 2nd gear to reduce the wheel spin, and that's with winter tires. This is one vehicle that could use T/C as a standard feature.

[DKaz]

Haha, my Corolla had too much torque with winter tires even. Forget traction control, make the 5 a rear wheel drive. (yippy) Which winter tires were you using?

I'm not banking on the 2010 model being different frm the 2009 but the following features would persuade me to trade in for a 2011 model...

Either as a standard or option to the 2009 Mazda 5 GT...

Really want:
-Power driver seat with two memory function (me - 6'1", wife - 5'4", we would REALLY appreciate this!)
-Fold out karakuri seat on the third row, for all the kids we may carry.
-Manual transmission for top of the line Mazda 5s for my American neighbours, just because the dealers don't want to stock them doesn't mean nobody wants them. Three words: Built To Order.

Want:
-The 2.5L engine with 6 speed manual with the 6th gear (or 5th gear of the 5 speed auto) designed to cruise at 100km/h (60mph) at no more than 2,500 rpm (which means 120km/h or 75mph would be 3,000 rpm).
-Power sliding doors
-Fold down passenger seat (to allow us to fit 8'+ long pieces of lumber)
-Panoramic moonroof

Would be nice:
-Mazdaspeed 5
-Getting all these features without leather... my wife's not fond of leather.
-Pearl black paint as an upgrade to Brilliant Black.

[mazdaspeedster3]

Sounds like you want a luxury van, not an economy mini mini van.

[DKaz]

A loaded mini-minivan. It's just like how Acura sells the CSX in Canada, a premium version of the Honda Civic that starts at $26,000 and has been surprisingly successful. Canadians tend to stick to compacts and will choose a fully loaded/luxury compact over a midsize even if the compact costs more. The Mazda 3 GT has sold way more than the base Mazda 6 even tho the 3 GT costs a few thousand more.

Right now the Mazda 5 GS is $20,500, Mazda 5 GT is $24,000, and Mazda 5 GT with Luxury and NAV is $28,000. They can easily fit a few more features into that top of the line model.

[jasma1]

DKAz,

With all these options, what would be the final price of your 5??!! As much as a Mercedes R-350!

It would be nice to have them all, but what keeps me attracted to this vehicle, is the sportiness, the room available and the simplicity in terms of equipment and prices.

[DKaz]

The Mazda 3 GT with Luxury Pakcage has power driver seat with memory function which can be easily brought over to the 5's Luxury Package. The $29,000 Nissan X-Trail SE 4WD came with panoramic sunroof (not the $26,000 XE 2WD), the Karakuri seat is available in Europe and Asia and just has to meet North American safety standards somehow. Power sliding doors I don't need but I've heard American people say that's the one missing feature that's caused them not to buy a 5, leave it out of the Canadian models but add that to the American Grand Touring model. The Matrix has fold down passenger seat on the XR and up models.

Keep the base model GS as under $21,000 and GT under $24,000 but add some features to a under $29,000 Luxury Package model if people so choose. If they want to cut costs, put a smaller GPS screen like the Mazda 3 GT. People are drawn to the premium-ness of the Mazda, it's why I left Toyota in the first place. With Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc.'s minivans starting out at over $30,000 for the base model up to $45,000 for the fully decked out models, the fully decked out Mazda 5 would still be a good deal and the Mazda 5 GS is a great bargain for those who don't need a 4500 lb minivan.

[DKaz]

And would it kill Mazda Canada to add HIDs to the Luxury Package? The halogen lights are so dim.

[Pinnacle]

With Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc.'s minivans starting out at over $30,000 for the base model up to $45,000 for the fully decked out models,

We just finished our due diligence on these. A fully loaded Odyssey is well over $50K. The AWD Sienna is closer to $60K. A medium line Odyssey (EX) is about $45K.

[Rockin03mp5]

I disagree....my '5' sucks in icy conditions...too my torque up front. I usually have to move off in 2nd gear to reduce the wheel spin, and that's with winter tires. This is one vehicle that could use T/C as a standard feature.

ice and snow are totally different. nothing but studded tires are going to work on ice.


Sounds like you want a luxury van, not an economy mini mini van.

exactly. all of them power extras cost a lot of money. mazda gives a lot for the money, but still at a nice price. there will always be compromises for less money.

[DKaz]

ice and snow are totally different. nothing but studded tires are going to work on ice.

Michelin X-Ice 2s, Yokohama IG20s, Toyo Observe, and Bridgestone Blizzak WS-60 are all excellent studless tires on ice.


exactly. all of them power extras cost a lot of money. mazda gives a lot for the money, but still at a nice price. there will always be compromises for less money.

The Mazda 3 GT's Luxury Package adds leather, power driver seat with memory function, and leather centre console lid for $1295.

The Mazda 5 GT's Luxury Package adds leather, heated seats, and 6-CD changer for $1295.

Get rid of the 6-CD changer and replace it with power driver seat with memory seat. If they need to add a hundred or two to the package oh well at least it's an option for people like me who want it. Move the 6-CD changer to the horrendously overpriced $2675 NAVI package.

I don't want ESC/TC that costs $500 yet the government is somehow trying to deem it necessary on all cars. ESC/TC is completely useless if you do not have the right tires and is just merely a complement if you do have the right tires.

[FYF]

why does everybody want traction and stability control?

i dont like abs even. i just dont like the computer overriding me!

and the 5 does just fine in the snow. just take it easy, it is not a jeep.

I used to think like you do - I used to think "I can modulate my own braking just fine, thanks!"

But consider this: When you're in a panic stop, you are by definition panicking. Years ago I lived in San Francisco, where it gets rain during a specific season and almost no other time... the first rain of the season turns months of oil, grease and dirt on the road surface into a skating rink. I was driving an employer's truck that was ABS equipped, and was cruising at reasonable speed (about 5mph below the speed limit) through an intersection, when somebody totally failed to stop at the stop sign and came out in front of me. I jammed the brake pedal to the floor and the truck just... stopped. Hard. Oh, I would've realized it when the tires started to slide and modulated my pedal, but the time factor simply wasn't there. If I hadn't had ABS, I'd have creamed him.

I'm a convert.

[morethan5]

If I hadn't had ABS, I'd have creamed him.
I'm a convert.

If you hadn't had ABS, you probably would have stopped in less distance.

ABS does not help you to stop faster. It facilitates some measure of control -- primarily in a straight line.

[DKaz]

If you hadn't had ABS, you probably would have stopped in less distance.

ABS does not help you to stop faster. It facilitates some measure of control -- primarily in a straight line.

What he said. Locked tires will stop your car faster, but you're at the mercy of your tires to keep you in a straight line and you lose almost all steering control. ABS was designed to help you keep control of your car whether you need to go straight or steer but at the cost of stopping distance. My 08 Corolla did not have ABS brakes but instead of rapidly pumping brakes, I used threshold braking in wet, snow, and ice conditions where you brake to the point of the tires locking then slightly release pressure, gradually increase pressure again than slightly release, it's similar to pumping the brakes but a lot more gradual, you're basically braking at the very limits of your brakes and tires without having them locked all the time.

Demonstration [80km/h (50mph) to 0 in less than 44m (144 feet)]:
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll81/DKazrolla/th_6ab623e5.jpg (http://s286.photobucket.com/albums/ll81/DKazrolla/?action=view&current=6ab623e5.pbr)

[Rockin03mp5]

that is the kind of braking i do, and yes, if someone pulls out in front of you like that, you pretty much have to drive around them, or hope you can stop. i have had that, on a clear dry road, going 60. someone pulled out in front of me. i had no time to stop and there was a median. luckily nobody was in the oncoming lanes. i slammed on the brakes, locking them up, then let go at just the right time to jerk through the opening in the median into the oncoming lanes. if there was traffic, my only option was to aim for his rear and try to stop, which was impossible. i was 16 at the time.
my car before my p5 had abs, and i couldnt stop for crap cause one wheel was always locking, so it mushed up my brakes.
i guess it is a matter of preference, but i dont need them, and have driven just fine without them. if it is icy, drive slow, and dont make sudden movements and only try to brake if you are going straight. getting going can suck yes.
if getting going is your problem then 4wd is probably what you need.

[Pinnacle]

Any updates on the ETA of 2010 models? Any feature changes?

[P2K]

I know the UK and JDM 2.0 petrol and diesel always had DSC. It doesn't do us 2.3 owners any good, but hopefully they'll add it to the 2.3 next year. Here's a pic of the module that's in the 2008 2.0 for the non-believers.

I got the pic off a japanese website. There wasn't a part number, but it wouldn't have mattered if there was because it worthless to 2.3 owners.