Should I? S2000 to MS3...

[psychophd]

Hi all,

First post, and of course, lotsa questions.

I currently drive an '04 S2000, and I love it. The 50/50 weight distribution, the handling, the gearbox. I'm not into flat out sprints, so it's quick enough too. Yes, it's loud, rattles, and has a trunk that is the size of my pants pocket, but it's a blast to drive.

However, I sold my daily driver ('92 Civic hatch), and now my wife and I are planning to have kids. So, sooner or later, the S has to go. :(

I've been looking at some options for a 5 door hatch, and it seems like the '07-09 MS3 seems like a good bet (STI is still having some teething issues and chews through gas; GTI and A3 may have questionable long term reliability as I plan to keep it forever, 3-series BMW wagon not my cup of tea).

With the changeover of MS3 model in 2010, I figure now might be a good time to get an '09. So, a few questions for you all... and please don't tell anyone on the s2ki.com boards that I'm cheating on them. :)

1. Does the mazda CAI really gain 24 hp? How hard is it to get?
2. Any suggestions for the shifter? I've heard it's not that great - does a short shift kit and/or anything else help?
3. Are all the engine mount issues dealt with?
4. I've read about smoking turbos... still an issue?

As I go look for new and almost new MS3s (I don't mind used - not abused - for the price savings), anything else I should know? I'm reluctant to give up my rwd, but I think this might be the right move, esp having a car that actually has a trunk.

I'm planning to test drive one this wkend (I'm in SoCal, near Disneyland). If anyone has suggestions for a dealership or has hookups, lemme know...

Thanks!


Mods, if I posted in the wrong forum please feel free to move...

[eg6motion]

1. Does the mazda CAI really gain 24 hp? How hard is it to get?
2. Any suggestions for the shifter? I've heard it's not that great - does a short shift kit and/or anything else help?
3. Are all the engine mount issues dealt with?
4. I've read about smoking turbos... still an issue?



1. Yes. Very easy, Dealer can order or you can purchase from online vendors
2. Lots of options, bushings, shifter weight mods, motor mount...all those help, but its not that bad.
3. Yes, while the stock mounts are squishy and cause wheel-hop, there has been hardly any reports of the 08+ models dropping engines since they fixed it.
4. Not very many smoking turbo's with stock cars... most people notice them after doing a downpipe or removing a cat.

[psychophd]

Thanks for the quick reply!

In re: to the motor mounts, if they're still a problem... what do people do? Replace with aftermarket (void warranty), or leave with OEM (under warranty, but might drop)?

Anything else I should know before I go for a test drive? Thanks again....

[mazdaspeedster3]

If you get an 09 the MM wont drop. that has been remedied. A lot of people are going with an aftermarket Rear MM just for more accurate shifts and a better feel all around. AWR makes theirs and they look like stock.

TWM short shifter and bushings will completely cure the shifter issue you were speaking of. Everyone that has them loves them and everyone swears that is how the car should have come.

[Hank3]

Instead of going with an aftermarket motor mount, members have gone with the Corksport inserts. Stiffens things up a little bit - not enough to make the Speed3 a rattlebox.

Funny that you mention coming from an S2K to the MS3. I'm still looking to get an S2K if I sell my MS3. Didn't need the five-door as much as I thought I did.

[coyfish]

Well seems like your looking for a fast car :). The gas mileage in the speeds is "okay." If you love driving manuals and still wan't the "boy toy" with the convenience of 4 doors / lots of room than go for it. The mazdaspeed 3 / 6 tranny is one of the few lowpoints of the car. Its driveable but the gear ratios require LOTS of shifting in daily driving which might get annoying to some. Engine mounts help alleviate "drivetrain lash" this at the cost of some vibration at idle with A/C on.

As for your questions the stock mounts are fine for normal driving. Smoking turbo's happens with the older models (from what ive seen) once the downpipe has been replaced with an aftermarket pipe.

A shortshifter / bushings help the gearbox feel cleaner but its more of an engine mount/ clutch issue. I drive a speed 6 and I think its worse in my car than it is yours due to the AWD.

How much do you plan on modding this car ?? I was told at my old mazda dealer than in order to have a mazda CAI under warranty you have to have it installed by them. They charge like 150-200 bucks for a 20 minute job. Not to mention the mazdaspeed CAI is overpriced. My advice would be to buy / install your own. Save a lot of money and its a very basic install with clear instructions.

[mazdaspeedster3]

You can argue the you install/they install of the MSCAI. I have buddys who have installed their own and have no issues at the dealership. Ask the dealership first to find out, that can really help!

[Bravnik]

Ok seeing as I came from an S2000 (2001) to the MS3, I feel I can answer your questions.

1. Yes an Intake gives you about 20WHP (give or take on which one).

2. Yes a shifter makes a difference but it will NEVER be like the S2000 - This is the only thing I miss about the S2000 really. I personally have the Cobb STS.

3. The engine mounts are a hit and miss it seems but there are plenty of aftermarket solutions in place.

4. The smoking turbos can be chalked up to mostly oil blowback when running more boost.

After having my S2000 for 5 years I had enough of the vert. Yeah it's nice on those not too hot/cold days, but it gets old. I had a small tear in mine and when I looked at the cost to replace the vert I was like WTF!

The MS3 is faster, more practical and is simply more fun to drive. Going from 9k to 6k is a Rev Limiter nightmare though :) I bounced off my rev limiter so many times when I got the MS3 :)

If you go with the MS3 I think you will be very happy. Drop $500 into it and no NA S2000 will keep up. Even with a hatch full of groceries.

Not to mention the Glove Box is bigger than the S2000 trunk. Hell you can probably fit a dead body in there. Take a look when you do the test drive. However, I do miss the hidden compartment in the S2000.

Gas mileage is about the same to be honest as well, so you will not see any real decrease or increase.

[Design]

I've also spent quite a lot of time in the S2K; Bravnik summarized it pretty well. I'll also add that the S2K's suspension "hugs" the road much better, while the MS3's has a slight float to it. Mazda's approach is to use softer springs and beefier sways for more practical daily driving. You may miss the RWD a little, but the mid range torque more than makes up for it. ;)

I have a daughter which is why I upgraded to the MS3. Plenty of practical room for the stroller, child seat(s), and supplies. Wife finds the seats extremely comfortable for longer trips, and the daughter falls asleep within 5 minutes of being on the road.

The only downside is that you'll always be looking for excuses to take the family somewhere, or arrive late to work taking the scenic route. :)

[Hank3]

Ok seeing as I came from an S2000 (2001) to the MS3, I feel I can answer your questions.

1. Yes an Intake gives you about 20WHP (give or take on which one).

2. Yes a shifter makes a difference but it will NEVER be like the S2000 - This is the only thing I miss about the S2000 really. I personally have the Cobb STS.

3. The engine mounts are a hit and miss it seems but there are plenty of aftermarket solutions in place.

4. The smoking turbos can be chalked up to mostly oil blowback when running more boost.

After having my S2000 for 5 years I had enough of the vert. Yeah it's nice on those not too hot/cold days, but it gets old. I had a small tear in mine and when I looked at the cost to replace the vert I was like WTF!

The MS3 is faster, more practical and is simply more fun to drive. Going from 9k to 6k is a Rev Limiter nightmare though :) I bounced off my rev limiter so many times when I got the MS3 :)

If you go with the MS3 I think you will be very happy. Drop $500 into it and no NA S2000 will keep up. Even with a hatch full of groceries.

Not to mention the Glove Box is bigger than the S2000 trunk. Hell you can probably fit a dead body in there. Take a look when you do the test drive. However, I do miss the hidden compartment in the S2000.

Gas mileage is about the same to be honest as well, so you will not see any real decrease or increase.

Good post :)

[Kain]

Not to mention the Glove Box is bigger than the S2000 trunk. Hell you can probably fit a dead hooker in there, maybe even two if you chop them up first to hide the evidence from the cops.

[ZoomZoomH]

keep the s2000, get another daily car.

[Circle9]

That's why you need a Mazdaspeed3, you shouldn't have to chop the hooker up to make her fit in the trunk, the back hatch of the Speed3 will take a body just fine.

[dizzin9]

@psychophd

should you? yes you should! i don't see why not. 263 hp, 6-spd, 4 doors, good trunk space esp. w/ folding seats -- perfect for a small family. get at least a 2008.5 gt (or if you don't mind sport), they're going pretty darn cheap nowadays. if you go for a sedan, well, i really don't know which ones are good (and i own an altima).

thought about getting an SUV? CX-7?

[MSMS3]

Good summary by others.

Only points I would add:

If you are looking for a high performance four door family car, I defy anyone to point you to a car with this performance in this price range with this size of interior space, with the cargo space, even with the rear seats up, and especially with them down.

Then there's the quality and reliability issues. I don't think there is any other comparable product on the market with the established reliability of this line of Mazda cars.

Gee, I ought to be selling these damn things, based on my enthusiasm, but I just like the combination of utility, practicality and strong performance.

For what it's worth, I have both the MSCAI and a full catless DP/RP. I can chirp the tires at will with a 5500-6000 rpm shift FROM SECOND TO THIRD on most surfaces, have made many, many hard launches and WOT runs up into 5th gear, and at approaching 15K miles am still on the original engine mounts.

I've learned by trial and error that the car does not have a problem with flat shifts (no pedal lift) and seems less likely to miss gears at WOT in using that technique!

I'm not saying to use or "abuse" your car like this, but I'm not seeing a need to put in harder, more vibration engine/tranny mounts. Yes, a fwd car with an engine/transaxle layout like our is never going to shift like your S2000.

Nor will our severely understeering chassis with lift throttle oversteer ever handle as neutrally as your S2000. But power makes up for a lot of handling shortcomings, and smoothness becomes a lot more important.

In the end, I say, if you try to find a better, more spacious, better equipped, more solidly constructed four door in our price range that can perform like the MS3, I don't think it's out there.

[Circle9]

I was able to chirp the tires of my stock Si when I went from 2nd to 3rd. ;)

[Design]

I've been looking at some options for a 5 door hatch, and it seems like the '07-09 MS3 seems like a good bet (STI is still having some teething issues and chews through gas; GTI and A3 may have questionable long term reliability as I plan to keep it forever, 3-series BMW wagon not my cup of tea).


To be fair, and to make it sound like we're not total fanboys over here, go test drive the 09 WRX hatch as well. It tied with the GTI as my 2nd choice among new cars in this price range. On paper, it's a good performer with decent space for the family. I say this knowing you'll most likely choose the MS3 anyway, lol.

In the end you'll feel better knowing you made an educated decision. Here are some others (with stats) in this price range:

http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii351/thedarkknight-23/CheapSpeed_Chassis.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii351/thedarkknight-23/CheapSpeed_Powertrain.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii351/thedarkknight-23/CheapSpeed_FinalResults.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii351/thedarkknight-23/CheapSpeed_Chassis.jpg

[cosic]

If I had the chance to get a the s2k over the MS3 (Wouldn't buy a NEW s2k in a million years) I so would have done it! Something about being 20, driving a 2 door convertible.. hmmm wouldn't get the good kind of attention. Plus, I was 19 at the time I got my MS3..

[psychophd]

woah... I step away for a few hours and there's already two pages of replies. :)

Thanks for the info. I don't plan to do major modding (keep the stock turbo - I've never had a boosted car before - sounds like I 'need' to do the motor mounts and shifter, and probably an intake).

I really do like my S, and hope to get something similar in, well, 10 years. :( Family obligations first. I would love to pick up a MS3 and keep my S, but it would be wise to sell, as I think it'll be near cost neutral (+/- $3k), and I'm saving up for a new home. I'd love to have an Exige equivalent down the road.

Looking forward to trying one out this wkend... any thoughts on Sport vs. GT: I don't need nav, so how good is the Bose and the other little goodies? I'm used to putting in aftermarket stereo stuff, but I can be lazy too. :)

[Hank3]

You'll get mixed reviews on the Bose system. It's decent for what it is, but don't expect great lows and highs. For the common folk, I think it's plenty good. The HIDs, LED tails, and leather bolsters are nice for the GT. NAV is pretty weak as it's outdated and not too great of a system - but this is an option for the GT. Coming from an S2K, don't expect the cutoff from the HIDs to be as clear and defined; and the light spread isn't as wide...but it's a decent OEM HID system.

[psychophd]

k, thanks for the info. I may be able to drop by a dealership tonight to get some info. Bittersweet; I really enjoy my S, but I may have to let it go soon. Anyone want one? :D

[cosic]

You'll get mixed reviews on the Bose system. It's decent for what it is, but don't expect great lows and highs. For the common folk, I think it's plenty good.

The only way I could deal with my system without getting completely pissed off listening to music, is BASS at -2.. anything above makes me want to rip out my passenger door and tweeters..

[psychophd]

Ok, so I was able to take a look at one today. There was one salesperson...covering both Mazda and the Subaru dealership. Talk about a change in the economy...

I saw a... cosmic grey? GT level. Salesperson, who was 'the top salesperson for Mazda' didn't know a whole lot about the car. Didn't want to give me a test drive b/c he was the only on the lot. Had no literature on the car either, and said there would be none as the '09s were no longer in production. I did get to poke around the car some. My observations:
1. Lotsa room. back seats have decent space, even with the front seats pushed back a fair deal. All of you are right - the glove compartment could not only fit a glove, but a decent part of my arm, and probably a few more body parts (fyi, someone did manage to get his girlfriend completely in the trunk of his S2000 in one piece just to see if he could...).
2. From certain angles (esp straight from behind, rear quarters), the car looked... odd - bulbous? I guess I'm used to more smooth lines.

He did say that if I bought Mazda aftermarket stuff when I bought the car, it'd be covered by the warranty, but if I bought them afterwards and didn't have them installed by mazda, the warranty would not be voided.

3. He said there were no incentives on the car from Mazda, only from his dealership, but Edmunds showed a $500 discount. Anyone?
Hoping maybe tomorrow or Fri to go for a test drive....

I also found a few '08s within 100 miles of me. I'll let you guys know as things progress. Thanks again for the help.

[black_ninja23]

PSYCHOPHD lets trade man! hahaha jk. I'm from SoCal too, and man the s2000 has been my dream car since it came out MY2000.

Anyways, everyone's post before mine have pretty much summed up what I would have said. But just a few pointers.

1. Simple bolt ons will give you significant hp/tq gains. All I have so far is a short ram intake and an upgraded intercooler, that's actually enough for me, although I might do a downpipe eventually (unless of course we traded =D).

2. Shifter is just ok on this car, but what do you expect from a cable driven shifter/fwd car. I have the aftermarket rear MM to help with the engine movement, but it won't completely fix the engine from bucking if you plan on driving it like you stole. Otherwise you should be fine on a daily driving basis.

3. Engine mounts - I hear people complain both 07 and 08 models, but i've had my car for the past 21,xxx miles and 0 problems.

4. Smoking turbos - again 0 problems on my end, but people talk about it.

5. Don't let that sales person try to tell you that you have to buy the aftermarket parts in order for it to be covered. That's a whole lot of crap. Granted, there are certain rules as far as how the warranty is covered with aftermarket Mazdaspeed parts, but I think the guy is just trying to pressure you into buying those parts now. I have non mazda aftermarket parts, and my warranty has not been voided...but then again I haven't brought it in for any engine work.

Oh and the car you went to see, was it used or new? I wouldn't be surprised if Mazda Corp doesn't have any incentives right now because of the economy, but if his dealership does, I would inquire about it...and maybe push them for more :D





...so good luck...and let me know if a trade would even cross your mind (2thumbs)...I don't have kids so i don't need the extra room, just the fun factor

[MicaSp33d]

well don't let the looks of the car decide, not that i think the car is ugly, well ..., all the cars in the same price range aren't that much prettier, put it that way.
let the test drive decide, boost is addicting (drive2)
don't mind the turbo lag before 3k, because after that the fun starts, .... till about 5.5k lol
which dealer did you go too? It sounds like the dealer in Monrovia, which became mazda/chevy/subaru about a month or two ago

[Hank3]

It was probably Cosmic Blue or Metro Gray. The former is an '08 model while the latter is either an '08.5 or '09. Mazda assigned color codes to the Mazdaspeed parts and some will not void the warranty if you install it yourself. I'll have to dig that post up. I would definitely check Cars.com or autotrader also. There's one currently that's 2 hours from me that a dealer is selling for $17,900 - '08 GT with 9K miles.

[Circle9]

well don't let the looks of the car decide, not that i think the car is ugly, well ..., all the cars in the same price range aren't that much prettier, put it that way.
let the test drive decide, boost is addicting (drive2)
don't mind the turbo lag before 3k, because after that the fun starts, .... till about 5.5k lol
which dealer did you go too? It sounds like the dealer in Monrovia, which became mazda/chevy/subaru about a month or two ago

I'm sure he won't mind waiting until 3000 rpm's for power, he has been waiting until 5800 in his S2000 ;)

[psychophd]

Metro grey - sorry, my bad.

Micasp33d - yup, I went to the one in Monrovia. The salesperson said that they'd have more salespeople by the weekend. That whole complex, including Honda, is owned by the same guy.

Thanks for all the info again, guys! Just as a heads up, the salesperson said that the hp bump for the 2010 MS3 is 20...take that as you will - he didn't seem to know that much else.

Black Ninja - maybe... pm me and lemme know. I'm looking for stock, non-tracked/raced, etc.

[psychophd]

oh, and yeah, Circle9, things in my S don't get....interesting... until around 5800rpm . One added benefit of zero torque (probably the only one, now that I think about it) is that under 5000rpm, it's easy to drive (kinda like a civic si - sharp handling, like a GT car) and gets good mpg (I can get around 27mpg if I lay off the Vtec). Over 5800, it's like a civic si, but on crack. Lots of crack.

[Hank3]

Thanks for all the info again, guys! Just as a heads up, the salesperson said that the hp bump for the 2010 MS3 is 20...take that as you will - he didn't seem to know that much else.

That's clearly evident because there isn't a HP increase in the 2010 models.

And I found the thread (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123730041) about the Mazdaspeed Parts warranty (much kudos to Silver Ecstasy).

[Circle9]

oh, and yeah, Circle9, things in my S don't get....interesting... until around 5800rpm . One added benefit of zero torque (probably the only one, now that I think about it) is that under 5000rpm, it's easy to drive (kinda like a civic si - sharp handling, like a GT car) and gets good mpg (I can get around 27mpg if I lay off the Vtec). Over 5800, it's like a civic si, but on crack. Lots of crack.

Haha, having owned a '99 Prelude, '04 S2000, and '07 Si I fully understand the concept of no torque. I got tired of how gutless those cars would act the moment I had someone else in the car.

The only thing I have missed about my S and the Prelude was the transmission. Can't say the same for the Si, it would grind and pop out of 2nd and 3rd from day one.

[david.underwood]

I had this to say after getting my MS3 having driven 80,000+ miles in my S2000

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123682898&highlight=s2000

[Jared703]

I'd try to pick up a leftover new 8.5 if you can find one you like, it will be easier to deal on. My dealership did not have any promo/special APR's (I'm friends with the salesperson and the manager) when I bought my 09 on 2/28/09. I picked it up for $300 under invoice.

It's a tremendously fun car- I look for any excuse to drive it. I love how capable it is stock. It surprises me and I'm trying to figure out its limits still. I came from a 03 wrx with 225whp/225wtq with straight forward mods (flash/tbe/some suspension mods). The ms3 has a more compliant & cabable suspension, better power & delivery, and awesome practicality especially for storage. Some might argue the premium fuel/mpg- that doesn't bother me. If it did I would have bought a fit. The only thing I don't love is the shifter, that said I'm probably spoiled by driving my wifes tsx occasionally (6 speed) which is probably very similar to the s2k's.

I'm having a child in a few weeks and the 5 door practicality makes a lot of sense. It will be nice having room to throw a bunch of crap in the back.

[Kain]

The only thing I don't love is the shifter, that said I'm probably spoiled by driving my wifes tsx occasionally (6 speed) which is probably very similar to the s2k's.

I've driven my share of Miatas and various Hondas (s2000, Civic Si, etc.), and while the MS3's shifter isn't great, a stiff rear engine mount and bushings make it much better.

Oh, and coming to the College Park meet later this month?

[cpmazda]

If you get an 09 the MM wont drop. that has been remedied. A lot of people are going with an aftermarket Rear MM just for more accurate shifts and a better feel all around. AWR makes theirs and they look like stock.

TWM short shifter and bushings will completely cure the shifter issue you were speaking of. Everyone that has them loves them and everyone swears that is how the car should have come.

love how ya have to do all this stuff to a new car just to get it right..

[Sphincter]

love how ya have to do all this stuff to a new car just to get it right..

What a stupid statement. What could be just right for you, could be just wrong for some one else.

[tiagotiago]

Coming from driving NA cars all my life(though the ones I've owned have all been slow ones), it's still quite an experience when you hit the boost, even after 9 months of owning the car. For shure you'll be grinning when you hit the boost the first couple of times.

So far in my almost 10,000 miles, I've only had to stop in the dealership for scheduled maintanence.

But I do think it's important you test drive the car. Some owners really don't like the fact that its FWD and the handling characteristics that the car has; for some these are big issues and everybody has their own driving style. In my case, I have no complaints about the dynamics since I don't drag race the car, and the few times I've have driven at a good clip the car has handled really well. Evenwith passengers and a full trunk, you'll be surprised on how good the car behaves on a mountain road; at least I was.

Also, some are annoyed by torque steer. Again I rarely get serious bouts of torque steer. Maybe it's because of my style, or maybe it's taste (or maybe I'm just not going fast enough...) Speaking of taste,some people really like the GTs seats, others loathe them.

Tell us how the test drive went. For shure it won't be boring :)

[Nismothecat]

i test drove a S2000. right before i bought the MS3. i liked the suspension and steering alot. the only thing that got me was how slow the car was before it hit vtec. having owned a civic hatch with a mildly built GSR engine. i know that hondas can be fast but you have to drive the shit out of them to get any of that performance. in the end the fact that the MS3 had a more usable power curve and could haul tons of things won me over. oh yeah that and the sleeper look!!

[SubieKiller3]

i'll tell you the greatest advantage to having a ms3 over a s2000. the space! my friend that i used to live with had one and everytime i got into it i felt like i could hardly breathe. definately not a car for someone who is claustraphobic. he let me drive it a couple of times. it was fun to drive and all but damn, felt like i had no elbow room. with the ms3 you got plenty of space to put the seats back and relax. i guess my friend doesnt have this problem because he's a little 5'5" asian guy.(rei)

[DeeAOne]

keep the S2000. :) but dont listen to me im biased. lol

[ekim213]

where are you located? i have a metropolitan grey 2008.5 MS3 GT (the newer 08 model with an mp3 player, piano black trim, and better seats IMO) for sale in the atlanta area. 6k miles. no nav.

[Kain]

where are you located? i have a metropolitan grey 2008.5 MS3 GT (the newer 08 model with an mp3 player, piano black trim, and better seats IMO) for sale in the atlanta area. 6k miles. no nav.

lawlface.


(I'm in SoCal, near Disneyland)

[ekim213]

lawlface.

???

[MSMS3]

No HP jump for 2010. But based on comparisons between the '09 and '10 regular Mazda 3's the weight will be up on the '10. Extra weight means decreased performance.

On the '10 they are changing the ratios in the tranny. I think it is probably more for marketing, but we'll see. I think they want to be able to keep the car in second gear at WOT until you hit 60, so they can have lower 0-60 times, by avoiding having to shift twice and run through part of third gear to get to 60. Until we get our hands on a '10 MS3 or a reputable test report, I'm gonna say that it will not be faster or quicker and will probably be a bit lower in performance.

If you can get a new '09 for a fire sale price (dealers are hungry, regardless of factory incentives), and if you like the car after driving it, gobble it up.

BTW: On that test drive, be sure to push the button on the left side of the dash labled "DCS" to disable the traction control. Maybe the salesman will not see you, or will not care if he's along for the ride. That will let you really see what the car can do without the power nanny trying to spoil your fun in the lower two gears.

FYI: If not familiar with high torque turbos, make sure you have that mother pointed where you want it to go when you floor the go pedal in first or second. lol.

BTW: If you can find a new 0 mileage '08 there is a $2500 rebate above and beyond whatever deal you can cut with the dealer.

[psychophd]

Didn't get to go today to the dealership. :( I've seen some used ones on sale for around 17-19k online; there's a coupla '08s in colors I would prefer not to have (but for an additional $2500 off....) listed at dealerships too.

MSMS3, thanks for the info; I'll be sure to make sure I'm not headed for a tree when I stomp the go pedal. :) I'm hoping to try one out tomorrow. :)

[pup73]

i own both an s2k and an ms3; there's no denying the speed's power, versatility, and value. however, imo, it's just not as fun to drive as the s. the gearbox, the handling, the "top down" factor. it makes driving the speed feel like driving a grand marquis (and i think the speed handles pretty well).

that being said, if i had to choose between the two, and it's my daily driver, i'd choose the speed...

good luck!

-c

[psychophd]

So this evening I finally took one for a spin; the wife and I went to the dealership (she wasn't exactly thrilled to spend friday night at a car dealership, but hey, she went). It's a joint Mazda/Ford lot, and as soon as I pulled up, three guys came out to say hello; we were the only customers.

They only had two MS3s on the lot, both GTs, one with nav. As I poked around one and asked some questions the guy couldn't answer, he got another guy, who knew slightly more. Best part was, he let me take it for a drive, about 2 miles.

The exhaust was louder than I expected, but wasn't unpleasant sound (not sure if I would feel the same 2 hrs into a drive). The gearbox wasn't as bad as most reviews would lead me to believe, but I would want to shorten the throw, and yeah, compared to my S, it's not the same - but it's not horrible by far. The first time I did a hard acceleration, I wasn't all that impressed. yes, it's fast, and has more torque than my S (but what doesn't), but it didn't seem to be frenetic. Then I realized I hadn't put my foot to the floor, and tried again. Whoa, much faster, much more torque. I ended up doing that a few times. :)

The handling was...ok. There was some body roll, which I assume could be addressed with swaybars, but it really wasn't that bad. I mean, I am comparing it to my S, which isn't exactly the same. What I was kind of surprised with was when we drove over some railroad tracks at about 40mph, the amount of float seemed significant to me. I'm assuming coilovers might solve that.

I totally forgot to try out the radio, but all the buttons/knobs on the dash seemed well laid out, and the seats were reasonably comfortable, and the rear seats seemed to have ample space too.

Overall, it seems like a solid car (no creaks or rattles, but it only had 22 miles on it), and could fit my bill, assuming I can find a good deal. :) Found out there's four at local dealership, and two farther away; unfortunately they're all red or black, and I was hoping for blue, white and silver, but might settle for red if the price is right.

I'll sleep on it, and go from there (probably another test drive), and I'll be sure to keep you all updated. Thanks again for all the input. Looks like there's a number of people who have also owned an S, which helps me understand the switch better.

[Circle9]

I'm at 31,000 miles with no rattles at all, can't say the same about my Hondas I've had :(

[Hank3]

Glad you got to test drive one. The exhaust does drone more than the usual sporty car. Surprisingly, it doesn't annoy me on long trips, but for some it does. Also, another small quirk (don't know how anal you are), but this car runs pig rich and the tailpipe is subject to lots of soot. So basically, if you wash your car and go for a spin around the block, you'll see the soot immediately. I clean mine every day or every couple days. Some people let it ride and let it act as if it's meant to look dirty and mean :)

[Design]

So this evening I finally took one for a spin; the wife and I went to the dealership (she wasn't exactly thrilled to spend friday night at a car dealership, but hey, she went). It's a joint Mazda/Ford lot, and as soon as I pulled up, three guys came out to say hello; we were the only customers.

They only had two MS3s on the lot, both GTs, one with nav. As I poked around one and asked some questions the guy couldn't answer, he got another guy, who knew slightly more. Best part was, he let me take it for a drive, about 2 miles.

The exhaust was louder than I expected, but wasn't unpleasant sound (not sure if I would feel the same 2 hrs into a drive). The gearbox wasn't as bad as most reviews would lead me to believe, but I would want to shorten the throw, and yeah, compared to my S, it's not the same - but it's not horrible by far. The first time I did a hard acceleration, I wasn't all that impressed. yes, it's fast, and has more torque than my S (but what doesn't), but it didn't seem to be frenetic. Then I realized I hadn't put my foot to the floor, and tried again. Whoa, much faster, much more torque. I ended up doing that a few times. :)

The handling was...ok. There was some body roll, which I assume could be addressed with swaybars, but it really wasn't that bad. I mean, I am comparing it to my S, which isn't exactly the same. What I was kind of surprised with was when we drove over some railroad tracks at about 40mph, the amount of float seemed significant to me. I'm assuming coilovers might solve that.

I totally forgot to try out the radio, but all the buttons/knobs on the dash seemed well laid out, and the seats were reasonably comfortable, and the rear seats seemed to have ample space too.

Overall, it seems like a solid car (no creaks or rattles, but it only had 22 miles on it), and could fit my bill, assuming I can find a good deal. :) Found out there's four at local dealership, and two farther away; unfortunately they're all red or black, and I was hoping for blue, white and silver, but might settle for red if the price is right.

I'll sleep on it, and go from there (probably another test drive), and I'll be sure to keep you all updated. Thanks again for all the input. Looks like there's a number of people who have also owned an S, which helps me understand the switch better.

Great writeup. IMO the ARBs are pretty agressive for stock. The body roll can be addressed with some mildly aggressive dampening and slightly stiffer shocks (first on my short list of upgrades). In fact, just upgrading your shocks with Koni FSDs ($600) will make your car comparible to the S in road manners. The 6 Disc Bose is adequate for most, but nothing revolutionary.

I think you're aware that Blue and Silver were only available on 07-08 models. IMO, the 08.5 refresh is worth the little upgrades with the Piano Black interior, Alecantra trim, and MP3 CD capability. If you need help sourcing a white GT, I would suggest either HB Mazda (talk to Joe B or Joe R) or Tuttle Click Mazda.

Oh, and it's definitely worth the wait to get the color you want. Good luck in your decision.

[pup73]

I'm at 31,000 miles with no rattles at all, can't say the same about my Hondas I've had :(

really? must be the cold weather driving up here, cause from day one, my speed has more rattles than my '94 Z32. the sounds from the intake and bpv make up for it though :)

[MSMS3]

I'm about as deep in the South as you can get. No rattles of any kind at 15K miles.

[blacksheepms3]

retain ur s2k....you e paid it or almost done with it anyway, right? i have an ms3 and wants a stook.

[psychophd]

I think you're aware that Blue and Silver were only available on 07-08 models. IMO, the 08.5 refresh is worth the little upgrades

So the blue is only '07'08, but not 08.5? I knew it wasn't in the '09. I saw one in in Oregon, and am considering flying up for fun, and then driving back down to LA, camping and such along the way.

[psychophd]

retain ur s2k....you e paid it or almost done with it anyway, right? i have an ms3 and wants a stook.


thought about it - my wife is open to it, but I think having the extra $ will be worthwhile as we're looking to purchase a new home. $20k isn't a huge amount, but it's not chump change either. Sometime down the road I'll be sure to get something fun - Exige, something like that.

[Captain KRM P5]

keep the s2000, get another daily car.

bingo. i love mazda, but i have to say this sounds the best. pick up a reliable used family sedan and keep the s2000 for fun. the rarity and value should jump now that they are being discontiued.

[cpmazda]

The s2000 is an awesome car. You will be disappointed in the handing of the speed3 coming from the s. I would keep the s if I were you. they run similar times and the s handles way better. not to mention the aesthetic appeal of the 2 seater sports car over a station wagon

[Donas64]

The s2000 is an awesome car. You will be disappointed in the handing of the speed3 coming from the s. I would keep the s if I were you. they run similar times and the s handles way better. not to mention the aesthetic appeal of the 2 seater sports car over a station wagon

or a hatchback even :)

[cpmazda]

or a hatchback even :)

righto! I like the speed3 alot but the s2k is pretty sweet

[psychophd]

I've thought about keeping S2k and picking up a hatch in addition, but:
1. I'd 'spend' about ~$4k if I sold my S and bought an MS3; I've thought instead about keeping the S and buying a '05-06 CRV, for around 18k. So cost differential is 14kish. Again, might now seem like much when looking at housing (esp in SoCal, unfortunately), but the more I save...

2. If I have both the S and the CRV, I won't be able to take the S out as much as I'd like - mostly in the CRV with the kid and wife. Before I sold my daily driver (civic hatch), we would take it on trips, and I'd often think "I wish I could be driving my S". Same would apply now; we're thinking about heading out to Yosemite, but it wouldn't be in the S (no space for camping gear, let alone my climbing gear. Oh, and room for food would be nice to have too). So.... maybe the MS3 is just more (shudder) practical and (shudder) good enough - no offence meant. I could easily fit all our stuff in there, and I'd be fun to drive in the twisties.


btw, anyone out babyseats/carseats in here, and how well does that work? I haven't searched the forums yet, but thought I'd ask. :)

As you all can see, right now the practicality of the MS3 most likely will win out over the pure rawness of the S - for now. Ask me in a few years....

[Jason C]

I'm in the same situation, but with a different car.
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123740132
I'm with you on the practicality side.

[Design]

I've thought about keeping S2k and picking up a hatch in addition, but:
1. I'd 'spend' about ~$4k if I sold my S and bought an MS3; I've thought instead about keeping the S and buying a '05-06 CRV, for around 18k. So cost differential is 14kish. Again, might now seem like much when looking at housing (esp in SoCal, unfortunately), but the more I save...

2. If I have both the S and the CRV, I won't be able to take the S out as much as I'd like - mostly in the CRV with the kid and wife. Before I sold my daily driver (civic hatch), we would take it on trips, and I'd often think "I wish I could be driving my S". Same would apply now; we're thinking about heading out to Yosemite, but it wouldn't be in the S (no space for camping gear, let alone my climbing gear. Oh, and room for food would be nice to have too). So.... maybe the MS3 is just more (shudder) practical and (shudder) good enough - no offence meant. I could easily fit all our stuff in there, and I'd be fun to drive in the twisties.


btw, anyone out babyseats/carseats in here, and how well does that work? I haven't searched the forums yet, but thought I'd ask. :)

As you all can see, right now the practicality of the MS3 most likely will win out over the pure rawness of the S - for now. Ask me in a few years....

I hear you on that. I too love the S, but a family means spending most of your time in a car with 4 doors. There's no need to punish yourself during the week just to love what you drive on the weekend. Taking a small (and I mean small) step down towards practicality is a win-win situation.

I have a 16 month old and used a Graco Snug-ride, and now a Graco Nautilus 3-in-1. Both fit great as long as you don't need space for 3 kids. The snug-ride fit perfectly in the middle. Plenty of room for me (I'm 5-11) and my wife up front.

For larger forward-facing seats like the Nautilus 3-in-1, the latch system is best utilized on the left or right rear seat. You can use the middle, but the latch for the top connector is located behind the seat on the trunk floor near the tailgate. That means no stroller in the back if you do the center latch.

I can easily carry a day's supplies, the family, the stroller, and the pack & play without a problem. It would be cozy with 2 kids, but doable so long as you aren't packing the kitchen sink.

If you ever want to see this stuff in person just send me a PM. I'm about 15 miles South of you, lol.

[psychophd]

Thanks, Design!

Sounds like I'll be fine in an MS3 with one kid - at least until we have the second kid, and maybe even then it'll be ok as long as we have a (gasp) SUV or (GASP) minivan as the main family vehicle - but that's a few years off.

Now I gotta start shopping around a bit more seriously. I still don't want to, but....anyone want an S2000? :D

Thanks again, all - I'll keep you all upated during my search...

[08cosmic3]

Pit each dealer against the other on the price, they will drop the price fast on an 08 or 08.5. Don't deal with the salesmen, get quotes online or over the phone and lie if you have to about the other offers from other dealers. You will be suprised at the price you can get right now if you are patient and play your cards. I never went to a dealership until I had made the deal over the phone. The dealers would give me one price and after turning it down they would call back 30 mins later with a better offer. I would then call the other dealers and tell them what the best offer was so far and ask if they wanted to beat that deal. Now, they will get pissed if you take it too far but in the end they want to make the sale. Deal with the internet sales guy, he useually works on salary not commission. I paid $500 under invoice 14 months ago and I have read people buying them for $1500 under invoice now. Go to edmunds.com to get the invoice price because the dealers will lie to on the invoice price. Save some money for modding and get the Sport model. The $1500 you save will get many go faster goodies.

[shaftwagon]

Indeed- the '08 MS3 is going VERY cheap these days. I bought one 2 months ago for over 2k UNDER invoice. Mazda is offering incentives to buy these now. Go to mazdausa.com and check out the incentives- there is $2500 customer cash on the '08 models. This is likely because the 2010's are coming out shortly and the economy blows. You can only get the silver in the '08 which IMHO is the best color.

As the previous poster mentioned, if you are buying use the internet sales people to get a price and match the dealers against each other. The cool thing is that using Mazda's website you can search all the dealers in your area for the car you want, get a price, and then use it against the other dealers. It works like a charm. You absolutely can't beat getting one of these cars for $19k new.

[psychophd]

Thanks for the hints! I like the white, but the only 08.5s I can find are red or black in my area (SoCal). There's a silver one in Las Vegas... might have to go with an '09, or choose one based on cost vs. color.

Any recs for dealerships in SoCal?

[evilmonkeyMSP]

what color is your S? lol
Thanks, Design!

Sounds like I'll be fine in an MS3 with one kid - at least until we have the second kid, and maybe even then it'll be ok as long as we have a (gasp) SUV or (GASP) minivan as the main family vehicle - but that's a few years off.

Now I gotta start shopping around a bit more seriously. I still don't want to, but....anyone want an S2000? :D

Thanks again, all - I'll keep you all upated during my search...

[psychophd]

what color is your S? lol

It's "silverstone" - the darker of the two silvers (the other is "sebring"). I really like the color esp for socal where darker colors get really hot. Doesn't show too much dirt when I let it go for a few weeks. I may try to get away from silver for now, just for a change in pace. I really like the cosmic blue, but no longer offered, so I might settle for white, which would be ok.

[08cosmic3]

Cosmic Blue is the only color option that is exclusive to the Speed 3.

[psychophd]

Cosmic Blue is the only color option that is exclusive to the Speed 3.


was this only for '08, or also for '08.5? My understanding is that the color was no longer available as of 08.5... is this correct?

[evilmonkeyMSP]

Bah every damn s2000 is silver. We don't want silver when we get ours lol

[Hank3]

was this only for '08, or also for '08.5? My understanding is that the color was no longer available as of 08.5... is this correct?

It was only available as an '07 and '08 model.

[psychophd]

Just posted in the Cars FS forum as a wtb/wtt.... kinda unsure about selling my S... we'll see what happens as I also start emailing dealers in the next 2 wks... thanks for all the help guys!

[Hank3]

Kinda unsure because you're afraid you won't get what you want for the S2K? Or you don't want to give up the S2K?

[psychophd]

Kinda unsure because you're afraid you won't get what you want for the S2K? Or you don't want to give up the S2K?


More so that I don't want to give it up... I really enjoy it. Car prices in general are depressed, so I'd guess that s2k prices might even be lower (kind of a luxury to have a 2 seater with a small trunk), but with summer coming up many people want verts. Might be a wash...

[Metro Gray]

Our kids (5 & 1) love going out in the MS3. The rear doors allow easy entry/exit for the kids and there is plenty of room for the baby seat and booster with room to spare. The hatch space is large enough for a trip to costco or ikea although we still bring the Pilot if we are buying bigger items.

The MS3 is plenty fast to get your adrenaline pumping in a straight line or around corners. Probably not nearly as refined as the S2K but you get what you pay for.

[psychophd]

Metro Gray - thanks for the additional info - it's good to know! ON the short term I'm thinking about a camping trip locally, and later a road trip to Lake Tahoe for some mtn biking - I think the MS3 might do better than my S... kinda sad about that...

[psychophd]

btw, here's an update:

I called some dealerships. There's 3 '08s left in the local area; two are at Galpin, and everyone says they have bad service and aren't solid. There's also one in Palm Springs, about 80 miles from me. It's a red gt with nav (all the ones at galpin are red too), and I don't want nav.

There's a guy who posted at s2ki.com about switching from an ms3 to an s2k, and he's local with a black '08. I'm not big on black (too hot in the summers here in SoCal, shows dirt and any scratches, plus the swirl marks later), but we might be able to work out a trade, so I'm thinking about it, despite my reservation about black... we might try to meet up next week. I'll definitely let you guys know as things progress - thanks again for all the help.

[Design]

btw, here's an update:

I called some dealerships. There's 3 '08s left in the local area; two are at Galpin, and everyone says they have bad service and aren't solid. There's also one in Palm Springs, about 80 miles from me. It's a red gt with nav (all the ones at galpin are red too), and I don't want nav.

There's a guy who posted at s2ki.com about switching from an ms3 to an s2k, and he's local with a black '08. I'm not big on black (too hot in the summers here in SoCal, shows dirt and any scratches, plus the swirl marks later), but we might be able to work out a trade, so I'm thinking about it, despite my reservation about black... we might try to meet up next week. I'll definitely let you guys know as things progress - thanks again for all the help.

I'm a big fan of relationships, but sometimes you have to buy a car at a great rate from one dealer and then go to another for your service. My So Cal dealers knew this since I live close to one and work next to another.

It's definitely worth the wait to get the color you want. And it sounds like an 08 Cosmic Blue GT would fit the bill. You have a couple months left to search and still get a great rate on the sale of your S2K. Good luck.

[psychophd]

It's definitely worth the wait to get the color you want. And it sounds like an 08 Cosmic Blue GT would fit the bill. You have a couple months left to search and still get a great rate on the sale of your S2K. Good luck.

Thanks! Yeah, the guy who is selling his black '08 MS3 GT has decided to keep it, so I'm back to looking around. While not my choice of colors, it might have worked out money-wise, with a nearly straight trade, saving on sales tax, negotiations and such. I might end up with a blue MS3, or a new white one. Guess I'll take my time and see what I can find.

[Hank3]

Don't know why Cosmic Blue is as unpopular as it is amongst the Speed3 owners, but I'm really glad I went with it. Sure, the white and red look sportier, but I knew I couldn't handle another white car after owning a white WRX for six years. It rains so much in FL that even the tiniest rainshower would dirty up the white super fast - road grime is a pain. Cosmic Blue looks gray from certain angles and makes the car look understated. So in a way I'm glad it's not as popular because that means there's less around town and less people wanting to rev on me. So my best to you in trying to find Cosmic Blue - it'll be worth it.

[wisniaPl]

wow why you want to sell s2000 they can make 600whp easily with aem ems, head gasket and turbo kit....Im thinking to pick one up ant turbocharge it....

[psychophd]

wow why you want to sell s2000

see my first post... essentially I need more room, and hatches are very versatile. Maybe next week after things slow down for me I can get a bit more serious about looking.

[stageup]

rofl im debating on trading my car in for an 08 CR, low price i got was 28k new, but only in apex blue with a/c

[evilmonkeyMSP]

I like the CR and all but I just dont care for the hardtop only....no convertible top, and that just kills it...
rofl im debating on trading my car in for an 08 CR, low price i got was 28k new, but only in apex blue with a/c

[MSMS3]

wow why you want to sell s2000 they can make 600whp easily with aem ems, head gasket and turbo kit....Im thinking to pick one up ant turbocharge it....

How do the tranny, diff, drive shaft and axles hold up at 600 whp?

[Circle9]

They don't, you have to build the engine, rear diff, axles, and tranny as well. I'm going to say you can reach 350 whp before you have to start watching it.

A local guy is constantly breaking his axles and diff at the track, he's right around 370 whp.

[psychophd]

If you can get a CR for 28k new, that's a really good deal.

S2ks generally hold decent value, but it's been out for over 9 yrs now, the price range varies significantly on the age and mileage, as on any car. Cheapest I've seen for an '00 is $9k, but it had been pretty well worn. Highest price recently was an '06 with 13k on it, for 19k offer from a dealer.

[psychophd]

There's a guy on sk2i.com who's pushing 430+ hp with a new head gakset and tune, and still is fine. Not sure where the upper limit is.

[240ka]

Don't know why Cosmic Blue is as unpopular as it is amongst the Speed3 owners, but I'm really glad I went with it. Sure, the white and red look sportier, but I knew I couldn't handle another white car after owning a white WRX for six years. It rains so much in FL that even the tiniest rainshower would dirty up the white super fast - road grime is a pain. Cosmic Blue looks gray from certain angles and makes the car look understated. So in a way I'm glad it's not as popular because that means there's less around town and less people wanting to rev on me. So my best to you in trying to find Cosmic Blue - it'll be worth it.
its funny how MGM and CB are like sister colors in everyway. how the change colors and the way the colors behave. ive even seen CB ms3's that looked like MGM and vice cersa depending on angle and lighting but CB isnt the least favored color.

oh the other hand, MGM is pretty popular and thats the opposite of why i chose iit. i "knew" people would go with the stat quo in terms of car colors but MGM continues to get more and more popular which i dont like.

thought i was being different when i chose it ha

[Nismothecat]

the dealership i went to this weekend, only had MGM speeds left. that may be one reason they seem so popular now.

[psychophd]

Thread from the dead....
An update. There are no more white sport MS3s in SoCal, but there's a few in NorCal. I can definitely get a red or mgm for 20,200, but am trying to get the same price for the white.

As part of the deal, I'm trying to get them to give me a discount on the MSCAI and possibly their coilovers, so two questions:
1. Are the MSCAI/coilovers good quality? I'm especially curious about the coilovers - I figure the cai is just an cai. The only info I've come across was a long term MS3 review from R&T where they liked both the cai and coilovers.
2. Are they worth the price differential in comparison to aftermarket?

I'm curious about them because I figure if they're dealer installed, they are covered by Mazda, and there will be a slight 'discount' as there's a tax credit for buying new cars based on the total cost of the car, if I remember correctly.

And would Mazda cover my engine if I went through a puddle, and because of the design of their cai, my engine floods & dies?

Thanks!

[bjjer]

Damn dood I thought you would have bought the car already. Buy the MGM it has a classy look to it.

[eg6motion]

Thread from the dead....
An update. There are no more white sport MS3s in SoCal, but there's a few in NorCal. I can definitely get a red or mgm for 20,200, but am trying to get the same price for the white.

As part of the deal, I'm trying to get them to give me a discount on the MSCAI and possibly their coilovers, so two questions:
1. Are the MSCAI/coilovers good quality? I'm especially curious about the coilovers - I figure the cai is just an cai. The only info I've come across was a long term MS3 review from R&T where they liked both the cai and coilovers.
2. Are they worth the price differential in comparison to aftermarket?

I'm curious about them because I figure if they're dealer installed, they are covered by Mazda, and there will be a slight 'discount' as there's a tax credit for buying new cars based on the total cost of the car, if I remember correctly.

And would Mazda cover my engine if I went through a puddle, and because of the design of their cai, my engine floods & dies?

Thanks!

no, if you experience hydrolock then it's your own fault. That would be an insurance claim and not part of the warranty, regardless of CAI. Also, their coilovers do not carry warranty coverage either. They are part of the "orange warranty" which is no warranty of any kind at all, and, in their terms, voids your vehicle warranty. "Purchaser acknowledges that vehicles equipped with MAZDASPEED "Orange" Performance Accessories shall not be operated on public highways. MAZDASPEED "Orange" Performance Accessories are intended solely for the use on vehicles participating in race/off-road competition events. Purchaser acknowledges that all Mazda vehicle/parts/accessory warranties are voided if the vehicle is used in a competitive event. Purchaser also acknowledges that there will be no warranty coverage for any part or accessory that fails as a result of the installation of a MAZDASPEED "Orange" performance part. Purchaser accepts all responsibility for all vehicle modifications and all potential risks. MAZDASPEED "Orange" Performance Accessories have been designed and are intended for race/offroad applications only"

[psychophd]

Thanks for the info on the warranty stuff. I'm also betting the warranty on the actual parts aren't all that better than any aftermarket stuff too. Maybe then I'll just go all aftermarket instead, depending on the price I can get.

[Saskatchewan17]

Yeah man, just go aftermarket. It's cheaper and intakes like the CP-E are godly awesome. Springs can be found by tons of manufacturers also.

[psychophd]

current deal: 20k for a mgm sport. I was hoping for white, but no more.

[black_ninja23]

do you think you'll miss RWD?

[cpmazda]

rwd>fwd

[Invictus]

current deal: 20k for a mgm sport. I was hoping for white, but no more.
Fly to Florida and pick up my white 08.5 GT for 19.9k. ;)

[240ka]

Mgm ftw

[Amemiya]

Any updates on this?

[Design]

Thread from the dead....
An update. There are no more white sport MS3s in SoCal, but there's a few in NorCal. I can definitely get a red or mgm for 20,200, but am trying to get the same price for the white.

As part of the deal, I'm trying to get them to give me a discount on the MSCAI and possibly their coilovers, so two questions:
1. Are the MSCAI/coilovers good quality? I'm especially curious about the coilovers - I figure the cai is just an cai. The only info I've come across was a long term MS3 review from R&T where they liked both the cai and coilovers.
2. Are they worth the price differential in comparison to aftermarket?

I'm curious about them because I figure if they're dealer installed, they are covered by Mazda, and there will be a slight 'discount' as there's a tax credit for buying new cars based on the total cost of the car, if I remember correctly.

And would Mazda cover my engine if I went through a puddle, and because of the design of their cai, my engine floods & dies?

Thanks!

Old post but I thought I'd add anyways.

The MSCAI is made by AEM with a Mazda-specific dry flow filter. I am running one on my 09; gained about 27 HP. I ran one on my previous car for 140K with no major issues. Honestly, you would have to go to great efforts to hydrolock your car, such as driving WOT through a 3 ft puddle. Just make sure you keep the splash guards in tact.

The MS coilovers are made by KW and are generally the top reviewed coilover on the MS3's to date. They are a bit stiff for daily driving and family duties. You might consider a slightly softer application like H&R. Hope that helps.