Large puff of smoke.... Ikes!

[1quickturbosix]

So im sitting at a stop light the other day.... which is a known stop light that takes forever!... anyways. I go to take off and look in the rear view mirror and see a large puff of smoke. I thought to myself for a minute, "was that my car" or was that the 86 cavalier sitting next to me. So I blamed it on the cavalier and went about my business. Now yesterday I had to run inside my house and left my car running. As I came out I looked at my tailpipes and notice just a small amount of smoke coming out of them, at the time i wasnt sure if it was smoke or it was just because it was only about 35 or 40 degrees out. So I get in, take off, and POOOF, another large ball of smoke. These are the only 2 times I have seen it. Usually after it sits in idle for a minute and then takes off. Any ideas what this may be. I searched for the whole smoking turbo bit but didnt find any thread on it..... and I know theres a million out there..... somewhere. Any input would be great or if someone would post a link that would be great. Thanks everyone.(2thumbs)

[BlackCherry06]

Sounds like your turbo seals are in the final stages of committing suicide. You can thicken up your oil (5W-40) to see if it helps, but in the end you'll have to take it to Mazda and show them what it's doing.

If you have any engine or exaust mods, replace them with the stock stuff before taking it to Mazda.

[1quickturbosix]

yea.... thats gonna be next to impossible... due to the fact that I moved and all the stock parts are about 7 hours away. AAAAHHHH

[Blendercloud]

Is a 7-hour trip (or shipping) worth $2,000 for a new turbo? I would think so.

Dollar values are estimated, but sweet mother of Jesus I think I would have them shipped considering the alternative.

[1quickturbosix]

Thats true...... Was there ever a final verdict if dealerships could detect the Cobb AP?

[Blendercloud]

I don't think they detect an ECU history. If you use your AP to go back and put the stock programming back into your ECU, I think you would be fine. I've never known any auto dealer to be able to detect that you once upon a time had a reprogrammed ECU as long as at the time it's at the dealer you had the stock programming.

[vrspeedemon]

can't find it right now, it may have been on another forum but there was mention of a tsb due to a smoking issue after car has been sitting idle for an extended period of time. not sure how "extended" that period was though but might be worth checking out.

[Blendercloud]

In your owner's/operator's manual I believe it says not to leave the car at idle for more than 2 minutes. I know that other cars can have an issue with rich fuel delivery at idle which may cause sluggish initial operation as well as backfiring. The latter may be why Mazda made such a recommendation. On the other hand, maybe they saw problems with the turbo seals coming.

[tunersteve]

To complete the task that the dealers do, on a cold motor, drive 5-10 miles, so that the car is at operating temp, then let it idle for 15-20 minutes. Keep a video cam nearby so that you can record it and take it to the dealer. Next, when you take it in, perform the same test, and leave it run while talking to your service rep.

Dealers may be able to detect the AP, but only if they look for it. Fixing the turbo shouldn't cause them to pull your ECU mapping for any reason.

[1quickturbosix]

Yea, its really strange, its only done it twice. So this might be a dumb question, but is the car undriveable once those seals take a shit? Or will it just smoke a bunch? This is my first tubo so still pretty new to this stuff.

[BlackCherry06]

You can keep driving it, but you'll eventually have a very oily and dirty intake tract.

[1quickturbosix]

MS6 for sale.......

[mysleeper6]

I had this issue when I had a test pipe in place...went back to stock for a dealer visit, they detected no problem. Meanwhile, I haven't had the chance to replace the test pipe and I've had no issues since.

[1quickturbosix]

So I just put everything back to stock last night and let it sit and idle so I know what to do when I go to the dealer to show them the smoking, and I cannot get it to start smoking. Im afraid im going to go to the dealer and they are gonna tell me theres nothing wrong. I only have about 800 miles left of warranty. Anyone have any ideas or what to tell them?

[Blendercloud]

So I just put everything back to stock last night and let it sit and idle so I know what to do when I go to the dealer to show them the smoking, and I cannot get it to start smoking. Im afraid im going to go to the dealer and they are gonna tell me theres nothing wrong. I only have about 800 miles left of warranty. Anyone have any ideas or what to tell them?

Take it to the dealer and tell them to leave the service ticket open regardless. If you continue to have that same problem after your warranty expires (within reasonable mileage), they may be legally liable to fix it under warranty.

[DaleNixon]

In your owner's/operator's manual I believe it says not to leave the car at idle for more than 2 minutes. I know that other cars can have an issue with rich fuel delivery at idle which may cause sluggish initial operation as well as backfiring. The latter may be why Mazda made such a recommendation. On the other hand, maybe they saw problems with the turbo seals coming.

Don't let it idle for more than 2 minutes? That's pretty hard to avoid at some lights and/or traffic. Also, the manual suggests an idle period for letting the turbo cool down. So let it idle, but don't let it idle? I'm so confused. (braindead

[wannabe]

heres what the manual says:

Don't operate the engine at high idle for more than 2 minutes.

the keyword there is HIGH. in other words, don't idle it at like 4,000 rpms or anything like that. idling at a traffic light (at like 700 rpms) is totally fine, safe, and to be expected.

[1quickturbosix]

So has anyone gone through this before? Having the turbo replaced? Does anyone have any advice as I will be taking the car to the dealer on Monday? Anything I should say? Shouldnt say?(uhm) Thanks a million.

[1quickturbosix]

Anyone?

[tunersteve]

Drive it for 10 miles before you head to the dealer, leave it running while you talk to the service manager, and make sure that before you leave it starts smoking again.

[1quickturbosix]

Thats the thing. I cant just get it to start doing it. It did it to me last night sitting at a stop light again. I looked in the rear view mirror and POOOF a big ol ball of smoke spat out as I took off and then smoke screened for about a 1/8 mile. Then it quits. I just know they are gonna tell me they cant find anything wrong... then warranty will run out and it will THEN get worse... my luck!

[speed6r]

Take it to the dealer and tell them to leave the service ticket open regardless. If you continue to have that same problem after your warranty expires (within reasonable mileage), they may be legally liable to fix it under warranty.

Good Intel! I never thought of that! I too am having a similar prob. I have a test Pipe Fujita CAI and a HKS BOV. It smokes like a bastard when Idol. Also when "I get on it" I've been told there was "a lot of blue smoke". In addition to my above mentioned smoking. I went into a store the other day (for about 30 min) and when I came out there was a small puddle of oil under my car and a few drops underneath the car on the splash guard. I also was told it was a valve ring or some other turbo related issue. I was told to take off the closest hose to the inter-cooler and check for oil as well as pulling the plugs to check for a Black or "gunked up" plug. none of the above has been done yet. I figure i will go for a oil change and see if there is a problem with oil levels first, before I pull all my Mods off and head to the dealer. any additional intel or personal experiences would be appreciated!

[Blendercloud]

Good Intel! I never thought of that! I too am having a similar prob. I have a test Pipe Fujita CAI and a HKS BOV. It smokes like a bastard when Idol. Also when "I get on it" I've been told there was "a lot of blue smoke". In addition to my above mentioned smoking. I went into a store the other day (for about 30 min) and when I came out there was a small puddle of oil under my car and a few drops underneath the car on the splash guard. I also was told it was a valve ring or some other turbo related issue. I was told to take off the closest hose to the inter-cooler and check for oil as well as pulling the plugs to check for a Black or "gunked up" plug. none of the above has been done yet. I figure i will go for a oil change and see if there is a problem with oil levels first, before I pull all my Mods off and head to the dealer. any additional intel or personal experiences would be appreciated!

An oil catch can will probably prevent your car from spewing this stuff all over itself. However, it is just a band-aid and you would definitely want to figure out how to fix the problem instead of just treating the effects or symptoms.

Before you pull any of your mods, you should pull the underskirt off and get down there to look for oil deposits yourself. The intercooler feed hose is also a good place to check (as stated above).

[tunersteve]

My car started smoking in July of '08, but couldnt replicate it. Took it in in Sept '08 and still weren't able to replicate it. Finally removed all emissions mods (test pipe) and drove with it until I saw it smoke myself 3 or 4 times. Did the exact procedure that the TSB instructs to do, and got it to smoke every time. Took it to the dealer and it happened while he was filling out the claim and it got fixed.

[1quickturbosix]

Well my appt is set for Thursday and I now currently have 550 miles left of warranty, so Im sure they will try to bend me over and tell me nothing is wrong since I cant get it to smoke on purpose, just every once in a while as im driving. Ill keep everyone informed. If they wont fix it... look for a clean ms6 for sale...haha

[coyfish]

your going to sell ur speed on terms of a turbo??? Im sure you can find another stock turbo or Ken at PG could help you for well under 1 grand.

[LBV]

Some people have had luck with a thicker oil, 5W-40.

[1quickturbosix]

Yea... that will be my next option. I dont want to do it now before I take it and try to show them the problem.

[speed6r]

your going to sell ur speed on terms of a turbo??? Im sure you can find another stock turbo or Ken at PG could help you for well under 1 grand.

Word! I've seen stock Speed6 turbos on ebay for like $200. In my opinion once my warranty ends the Real Modding begins! I would be on the Garret website right now snooping around!

[tunersteve]

Word! I've seen stock Speed6 turbos on ebay for like $200. In my opinion once my warranty ends the Real Modding begins! I would be on the Garret website right now snooping around!

Yeah, but doing a GT series turbo correctly is more than you think. I'd go with a stock turbo (revision C model) or an upgraded one from PG.

[speed6r]

Yeah, but doing a GT series turbo correctly is more than you think. I'd go with a stock turbo (revision C model) or an upgraded one from PG.

I've herd a lot of bad things about PG. I hurd the customer service is seriously lacking. In fact other forums have entire threads bashing Protge Garage. Is there somewhere else you would recomend? have you had to swap out your turbo before?

[1quickturbosix]

I havent, I just bought the car in October. I just got laid off from the railroad so I had to put all modding to a stand still for a moment. Thats why If I can get this fixed for free.... im all about it. But if they try dicking me around and I have to pay for a new turbo,.....then make sure it wont have the same problem as im having now (cause thats what a lot of the ones on ebay are), have to install it and shit. Not worth it to me. Sell the car and on to the next thing.

[bova80]

I've herd a lot of bad things about PG. I hurd the customer service is seriously lacking. In fact other forums have entire threads bashing Protge Garage. Is there somewhere else you would recomend? have you had to swap out your turbo before?


PG is fine and their customer support is top notch, sometimes they get busy and do lack a bit in communication, but they will go to the ends of the earth to straighten things out and make sure everything is ok.

[1quickturbosix]

Yup... i agree. I had a small problem with PG where a set of plugs got lost in the mail, so really it wasnt even PG's fault, but PG bit the bullet and sent out a new set... no questions asked. The good news was that the first set they sent out got returned back to PG right as the second set arrived 2 me. Their customer service is pretty much the best thing since sliced bread.....

[tunersteve]

I've herd a lot of bad things about PG. I hurd the customer service is seriously lacking. In fact other forums have entire threads bashing Protge Garage. Is there somewhere else you would recomend? have you had to swap out your turbo before?

PG has their moments, it's not what they sell, it's the communication that seems to be a sticking point for those who have issues. I don't know of any other vendors that do turbo upgrades, so I think they're the best bet for that. You may also find a local shop that does the clip/upgrade as well.

I have not removed the turbo, but that doesn't look like a pleasant experience.

[bazooka joe]

just made my first rather large purchase from them and the communication couldn't have been better! got the product when i was told i would.

[1quickturbosix]

Well today is the day. Gotta take the beast in at 3pm. I was able to get it to smoke last night and caught it on video so hopefully it will do it again while im at the dealer!

[1quickturbosix]

I shouldnt say I was able to get it to do it.....it just did it, and I was in a parking lot waiting for a friend and noticed it in the rear view mirror.

[USAFVMI08]

I don't know if it's just me or what but I've been noticing that a lot of the cars that are smoking start doing it after the car has been modded. I'm not making any accusations whatsoever that the mods are causing it. My car is totally stock (minus a gutted airbox) and I've had no problems at all. I'm just really hoping that's not the case because I do want to do a couple things but hearing about all these cases and then seeing that the car has been modded has made me EXTEMELY gunshy to do anything. :(

Again, I'm not saying that mods are causing it and you shouldn't use them, I'm just saying it's an observation I'm making and wanted to know if this is the case. :)

[MShreve]

I don't know if it's just me or what but I've been noticing that a lot of the cars that are smoking start doing it after the car has been modded. I'm not making any accusations whatsoever that the mods are causing it. My car is totally stock (minus a gutted airbox) and I've had no problems at all. I'm just really hoping that's not the case because I do want to do a couple things but hearing about all these cases and then seeing that the car has been modded has made me EXTEMELY gunshy to do anything. :(

Again, I'm not saying that mods are causing it and you shouldn't use them, I'm just saying it's an observation I'm making and wanted to know if this is the case. :)

I think the smoking issue is mostly people that have removed one or both of their cats. The cats seem to hide the turbo seal problem pretty well. But as soon as you remove them you start seeing smoke.

Of course the dealership would probably tell you that the turbo is smoking because you removed the cat, but I think we all know differently.

[1quickturbosix]

I have both my cats, 49,xxx miles and it just started.

[redspeed6]

ok, before you blame the turbo, you need to try this.
I had the same issue, they replaced my turbo and still smoked and smoked bad. What ended up happening was that my PCV valve was bad, allowing oil to inter the intake and burn in the engine. Not the turbo. The PCV valve is in the front under the throttle body on the side of the block. Check this first- much easier and cheaper to fix than a turbo.
Just my .02

[1quickturbosix]

And while checking this..... what is it we should be looking for? And where can one purchase a new one of these?

[Blendercloud]

And while checking this..... what is it we should be looking for? And where can one purchase a new one of these?

I think you can order these at local parts stores. You should be looking for build-up in this valve.

[1quickturbosix]

Hmmmm.... first turbo... first mazda.... im lost. Damn I hate being a newb.

[bova80]

this is why adding a oil catch can with a second pcv valve helps. there is a lot of oil that goes through there into the intake manifold.

[redspeed6]

^ i agree.

Take the valve out, shake it, look for oil build up and what not. You can pick one up at any parts house.

[1quickturbosix]

This just seems too good to be true....... What exactly does this look like and how hard is it to remove and replace?

[MShreve]

If the PCV valve isn't the problem then does the oil catch can mask the issue?

[1quickturbosix]

Well I dropped it off and all the service guy said was "Well, theres gonna be a lot of hoops to jump through and just leaving it here with us will at least get one foot off the ground on the first hoop". He didnt even want to see it smoke while I was there, just said we will call you today and let ya know what we find out. So far no call... Grrrrrrrr.

[USAFVMI08]

What he means by build up is a blackish sort of oily build up on the inside. Shake it a bit as well to make sure you hear a rattle sound. That's what I've always been told to look for.

Who knows, I could've been wrong for the past 5 years or so :p

[1quickturbosix]

So service advisor just called and informed me that he was able to get it smoking. They said my intercooler was FULL of oil? Said more than likely im looking at a totally new turbo system. As long as they dont pull the ecu data and notice the AP..... cross your fingers!

[tunersteve]

So service advisor just called and informed me that he was able to get it smoking. They said my intercooler was FULL of oil? Said more than likely im looking at a totally new turbo system. As long as they dont pull the ecu data and notice the AP..... cross your fingers!

If you were smart you would have switched maps back to stock for the time being...glad to hear they got it smoking though.

[redspeed6]

You should be ok, I dont think they will see the AP stuff. Good luck though!

[1quickturbosix]

Oh i saved the stock settings when I first installed and put it back to the saved stock settings when i took it there. I was under the impression they could still see that?

[1quickturbosix]

Is an intercooler full of oil normal with this problem though?

[1quickturbosix]

WOohoo. Dealership just called and they are replacing the turbo under warranty. No questions asked. didnt even ask to see maintanence records or anything. They even have one sitting in their inventory... how nice.

[DaleNixon]

Cool!

[1quickturbosix]

Yea... im pretty excited

[coyfish]

I still don't get why you were so stressed out:). Your car is under warranty and you only have very basic mods that can be removed in 30 minutes.

Anyway glad your getting a new turbo !!!

[1quickturbosix]

I was stressed cause I had only seen it do it once or twice and wasnt sure if they would be able to replicate the smoking. Therefore telling me " everything is fine, have a nice day". I only have about 500 miles of warranty left, so it would have been easy for them to push me right out of that if they really wanted to be ignorant.

[redspeed6]

sweet! good to hear. You may want to mention to them about the PCV vlave just incase......

[1quickturbosix]

Talked to the service writer this morning and he informed me my hot rod should be done this afternoon, unless something goes terribly wrong. YES!!!!

[speed6r]

Mine was smoking to, as i posted in this thread before. I decided to have my oil changed to see if that would help before I had to remove all my mods and bring it to the dealership. When i went to the Oil change place i looked @ my sticker in the window and it said i had 5w 20 oil in my engine. I then looked in the Owners manual and saw that our motor requires 5w 30 oil. i talked to the oil place manager he gave me a free oil sys cleaning additive and put in the correct oil. Guess what? No more smoking! I'm thinking if you want to replicate the smoke put in 5w 20 oil and run the hell out of it. maybe this will help you or others. i'm thinking the Oil place see's ton's of mazda 6's and probably assumed mine was just another one. Little did they know i have a 300+ hp awd Turbo 6 lol!

[1quickturbosix]

Yea... and I thought about just switching to the 5w40 and seeing if that worked.... but I said screw it. If I can get a free turbo out of the deal... why not? Take the mods off... get the new turbo.... now I will switch to 5w40.

[speed6r]

Werd! how can you turn down a free turbo?!

(mswerd)

[1quickturbosix]

Got the car back.... the service advisor and tech said that my turbo was the worst they have ever seen. The intercooler was full of oil and gunk. Anyways.. wow... it feels like the car I first bought. Flashed it with the stage 1 93 map and it feels like a damn rocket. UNBELIEVEABLE!!!!!

[speed6r]

awesome! Im happy for you!

[DaleNixon]

Sweet!

[gotallofthem]

Perhaps an oil catch can would help you know with your new turbo. You should get one, otherwise over time it may happen again, and then you will be out of warranty.

From reading a couple of post so far on this board I have noticed alot off people complaing about turbo problems, and smoke. It makes sense all that excess oil blowby could damage your turbo.

When I had my Neon SRT4, the hose that went right into the intercooler woud get filled with oil. Didn't mess up my car although eventually I know it would have.

Thank goodness I have warranty on my 6speed untill 2014 or 100,000 miles, in case my turbo craps out.

[1quickturbosix]

how the hell do you have a 100,000 mile warranty?

[Blendercloud]

how the hell do you have a 100,000 mile warranty?

Probably bought additional coverage from the dealership. My MS6 had 16,000 miles on it when I bought it. Knowing the 2007's warranty is only to 36,000 miles I bought a 5-year (from the date of my purchase) 75,000 mile warranty on the entire car for $1,600 or so. Maybe I'll need it. Maybe I won't. Either way it's transferrable in case I decide to sell.

[Atreyu3388]

how the hell do you have a 100,000 mile warranty?

I also have the same Mazda Certified Warranty on my car as well (100k miles or 2014). Fully transferable upon purchase by a new owner...wink wink (wink)

[1quickturbosix]

Fuck... i was never offered that...

[gotallofthem]

how the hell do you have a 100,000 mile warranty?

I just purchased my new 6speed this monday, It was a certifed pre-owned.
The origianal manufaturers bumper to bumper warranty is good untill 2011 or 50,000 miles.
Once that original warrany expires the certified preowned warranty kicks in, which is a limitied warranty for 3 months or 3,000miles and a Powertrain warranty which is for 3years or up to 100,000 miles.

I also have the "Mazda Extended Protection Plan" for CPO vehicles, which is a wraparound warranty that covers extra items that the 3year Powertrain warranty does not cover.(thumb)

[slyter485]

Probably bought additional coverage from the dealership. My MS6 had 16,000 miles on it when I bought it. Knowing the 2007's warranty is only to 36,000 miles I bought a 5-year (from the date of my purchase) 75,000 mile warranty on the entire car for $1,600 or so. Maybe I'll need it. Maybe I won't. Either way it's transferrable in case I decide to sell.

This is exactly what I got. Its a good piece of mind for sure

[1quickturbosix]

Geeez.. and here I am contemplating selling the damn car causer I know its gonna be problems down the road. SHIT!!!

[jonscapri]

IT really depends but most of the time it's usually the seal on the turbo that goes.

It you run full synth oil all the time, and at least 5w30 you should be okay. I recommend Valvoline Racing synth 5w30 or 5w40 or Redline, royal Purple of the same weight. STAY AWAY from conventional. Trust me, and done too many turbos on these. Especially warranty conscious people don't want Mazda to know about them having mods, and are willing to pay.

So you know if you don't have a warranty, and you take it to Mazda to replace the turbo it's around $1500 just for the turbo, and 7-18 hours of labor. Some dealerships charge flat rate, and some charge by the hour especially if it goes well over the flate rate labor time to do this.