Pondering bailing out. Long post

[badmotorfinger]

Would like some feedback, because i'm thinking of bailing on the car. I've got a '09 MGM GT with 8500 miles and love it. But, sometimes love isn't enough...
My mods are listed, but I just got around to installing the TMIC last week. Woke up the butt dyno nicely, but I now have nasty wheel hop. Ok, so it's time to get some mounts. But when I was on the highway yesterday winding it out I started getting boost cut high in 5th, and later high in 4th. Fuel pressure, KR, and AFR's all look good. So I've had a Cobb AP in the box for a few months now (that's another F/Upped story) and figure it might take care of the cut...but dammit.
Fuel cut? Check. Dash rattles? Check. Wheel hop? Check. Crazy rebound rates on the dampers with more floating than my '93 T100? Check. I just want a nice car that can haul some gear (my dogs crate takes up most of the room, but I think I can live with that) and haul some ass.
Sooo, I'm looking through auto trader and see a one owner '06 Dodge Magnum SRT8 with 12,000 miles. Let me think about this; 425HP...stock, more cargo/passenger room, 425HP...stock, decent (but not great) interior, 425 HP...stock, kinda looks like a hearse (yes, my secret fetish, I think they look sick) 425HP...stock, good handling/braking with the Benz E-class platform, 425HP...stock, and it's a Dodge.
Fuck.
It's a 425HP...Dodge.
Not trying to offend the Mopar fans out there, I like the look of the car a lot, hear great things about that motor, and am willing to take a fuel economy hit, but am spooked by past Mopar experiences and their questionable long term survival as an auto manufacturer.
One last piece to this puzzle. I love owning a car that is unique. My Speed fits that perfectly, only met one other person so far with this car in my area. But this Dodge? Total production from 06-08 = 3837.
I'm waiting for a phone call from the SRT dealer to see what kind of a phone quote I'll get for my ride on trade...
Some thoughts folks? Thanks in advance for your opinions, even if I don't agree, I need to hear from others.

[AutoEuphoria]

If you will lose money on the deal, don't do it. Meaning...if you owe money on the car and trade in/sale value is less than you owe, don't do it. Also, make sure you DRIVE that other car before making up your mind. I did a 180 on the Magnum after I drove it...I loved it before, and hated it after.

03/04 Cobras are going for a pretty decent price right now, as are 03/04 Z06's (what I plan to get in a couple of years)

And don't worry...you're not alone. The MS3 is a nice car if you don't plan to do much to it, but if you have the HP itch, it can get old pretty quick.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

[Wagonbacker9]

if you're that intent on functionality, and you want some more go pedal to work with... I'd look into a subie... depending on what you're willing to finance an 09 STi will do you well, or you can go lower budget on an older one...

[Peter B]

Well I wouldn't bail. The thing that kills it for me is the part at the end. Its a dodge. My family owned one of those once....ONCE. Never again! What a piece of crap. Car made it 3 years fine then the rest of its life it wasnt worth the metal it was made of.

On top of that its big, I don't care for big cars, I think they are useless. Plus like you mentioned, dodge might not be around in another 6 months.

It sounds to me like your desire to bail is a reaction to your frustration with your current ride. Sort of like an impulse buy. That is a poor way to make a descission. I would take some time to think it over. If you truely do want to get a different car, I would look around a bit. Don't just grab the first car you see.

The economy sucks right now. No one is buy cars so if you are gonna get a different one, take some time and really look around. You might be abel to find some sick deals. You have the upper hand at the moment.

-Pete

[240ka]

If you will lose money on the deal, don't do it. Meaning...if you owe money on the car and trade in/sale value is less than you owe, don't do it. Also, make sure you DRIVE that other car before making up your mind. I did a 180 on the Magnum after I drove it...I loved it before, and hated it after.

03/04 Cobras are going for a pretty decent price right now, as are 03/04 Z06's (what I plan to get in a couple of years)

And don't worry...you're not alone. The MS3 is a nice car if you don't plan to do much to it, but if you have the HP itch, it can get old pretty quick.

Good luck, whatever you decide.
man, im with you on that...cant wait to get my C6 Z06 in the next few years

[derspi]

I really don`t think there`s any way you can come out good financially on a decision like this. It doesn`t matter what car you`re considering, the fact that you have a niche market car in the MS3 is what`s going to hurt you considering the economy is bad at the moment. I`d say go about fixing the little issues with the MS3 and wait it out. I mean, it`s a friggin`brand new car and does still carry a warranty so you can get the little things like rattles and clunks fixed at no cost. It may take a bit of work to get those dumbasses at the dealership to diagnose but if you bitch enough or do your homework, those minor problems can be fixed.

[cjms3]

im bailing for a 05 sti with 77k... cant wait

[mckraut]

im bailing for a 05 sti with 77k... cant wait

Ouch, 77k?

To the OP, I would personally keep the car. I'm willing to bet the trade in won't cover the SRT8 and you probably owe more on your MS3 than it's worth right now.

[badmotorfinger]

Sorry I forgot to add: I owe nothing on my car, but still don't want to get ass-raped on paper.
If it is an even trade then I would only have to look at projected depreciation of the respective cars. Which I understand, is just a projection...They're asking 23,800.

[Wagonbacker9]

theres no way they'll give you even up for that asking price... at least, I'd bet not.. if they offer it to you, I'd say go for it.... assuming that working out the MS3 kinks isn't worth it to you.

[Rotus8]

I had an SRT8 rental for about a month (whole 'nother story) and it was pretty cool. The one thing that got me was looking in the rear view mirror - this thing is huge! Yes it is big, but the small rear window makes it look even bigger looking back there. I did find the visibility limited which bugged me. And the fuel usage was ridiculously bad. Lots of room to put stuff. But, I wouldn't trade it for my MS3 unless you gave me a whole bucket of cash too, and then I probably wouldn't keep it. And have you checked what that thing weighs? A lot of that 425 is lost due to pushing all that mass around.

[mckraut]

I just went back and re-read the first post...ONLY 8500 miles? Do you change your socks midway through the day as well? Christ man, give it a chance!

[badmotorfinger]

That's why I'm waiting to hear their offer. I think I might have a decent shot at a even or close to even trade. Mine is a current model year and I'm wondering if the combo of a V8 in this economy, and the possible death of Chrysler, might be some excellent bargaining chips. Obviously I would de-mod but I told them I would throw in the winter 17's too.
Again, I love my car. And I am not a nervous person by nature, but think about it. If my engine were to take a crap like some of our peers, it would be a bit of work to have the thing towed to MY garage first, return to stock (including re-installing and welding the cut-in-half stock exhaust) just so I can roll the dice with Mazda NA to see if they might cover it. Or just man up and drop 3-5K on another motor. Just things I think about from time to time.
I need a beer and a hug.

[mckraut]

Do you really think you'd keep the SRT8 stock though? Seems the mod bug bit you pretty hard with the MS3 and that urge just doesn't go away.

Also, let us know how it pans out with the dealer. I'm curious to see what they'd offer you on the MS3.

[jred321]

But this Dodge? Total production from 06-08 = 3837.
they produced 3837 cars across 3 years? so 1,300 cars/year roughly? i'm almost positive there are more MS3s out there. usually "limited edition" in mazda terms is at least a couple thousand per year. not that i've specifically looked into the MS3 but generally mazda's limited editions are limited to as many as they can sell, which is usually well above 1300/year



i say return it to stock. use it as a DD. get it in a condition that a dealership would consider warrantying it (it's not that hard to tell something has been modded and returned to stock). then buy a second fun car. also learn the lesson that many MSP owners (myself included) have learned and never buy another mazdaspeed product. the types issues you're talking about have been found in every mazdaspeed product ever made. also any high HP fwd car is going to have wheel hop. if you want big power don't buy FWD. the stock MS3 is pushing what i consider the fun limit for a street driven FWD car

[LazerBlueP5]

Ahhhh, the SRT-8 Magnum- easily my favorite SRT vehicle sans the one I own. I LOVE the way it looks- and it was a consideration for me before I got my SRT-6.

It'll definitely be faster in a straight line than the MS3 however it won't quite handle as well. It's got a HUUUUGE wheel base which means it'll ride really smooth but makes it's turn radius much larger and consequently making it less nimble.

If I had to choose flat out (if they were priced equally) between the SRT-8 and the Mazdaspeed3 I'd probably go with the 8, for the aforementioned reasons you listed. I enjoyed my Mazdaspeed3 but I'm REALLY enjoying my SRT-6. As you can see in my sig I'm kissing 11's very soon. However keep in mind if you do go the modding route on the SRT-8 it's going to be difficult to make a great deal more power over stock considering it's normally aspirated. The only way to make them go really fast (ie 12's-11's) is to do forced induction with them- which makes the price of admission not seem so cheap anymore.

That said I was a bit disappointed with the aftermarket for the MS3. IMHO Cobb AP was a flop, ESPECIALLY if you compare the gains with their STi kits. From all the talk about the MS3 being difficult to tune due to direct-injection,
to the problematic tranny/engine mounts (3rd occasionally being non-existent & excessive wheel hop), to the annoying torque steer....I came to the conclusion that it's NOT the best platform to build a powerful performance car. Don't get me wrong it's a wonderful daily driver with some pep on the highway but not an all out performance car. Keep in mind I wasn't using my MS3 as a daily driver when I owned it. The SRT-6 is filling that gap much MUCH better than my MS3 was.

Speaking of which I had a MS3 mess with me on the highway the other day- I was excited to see the guy try to pull around and pass me, as I'm truly still interested in the MS3 and still have a place in my heart for it. :) Let's say it didn't go very well for him- I pulled away rather easily. It's not even a race between the two- the SRT is another level.

I feel the SRT-8 can be the same way. It's got way more automotive grunt, and it's making 420+hp...all motor. However if you truly aren't interested in modding and would rather have a quick daily driver that is practical...well, you already own it.

[MikeHTally]

I considered the SRT-8 Magnum, but I've wanted a Speed since they came out. Plus, I already have a 300C and a Hemi Ram. Forty-eight sparkplugs in the driveway seemed a bit much, plus the better mileage was a good thing. May yet get a SRT Magnum, but it'll be a couple of years.

[jred321]

That said I was a bit disappointed with the aftermarket for the MS3. IMHO Cobb AP was a flop, ESPECIALLY if you compare the gains with their STi kits. From all the talk about the MS3 being difficult to tune due to direct-injection,
to the problematic tranny/engine mounts (3rd occasionally being non-existent & excessive wheel hop), to the annoying torque steer....I came to the conclusion that it's NOT the best platform to build a powerful performance car. Don't get me wrong it's a wonderful daily driver with some pep on the highway but not an all out performance car.
let me guess. this was your first mazda?

[PCspeed3]

Im in the same boat as you man, im ready to sell my MS3 even with the mods still on it. I need to get a truck that I can throw dirt/mountain bikes in the back and go shred. Im tired of worrying about a tiny little rock chip or door ding on the MS3. I will be moving to an ~06 F-150 in the near future hopefully.

[LazerBlueP5]

let me guess. this was your first mazda?

Incorrect. Look at my join date for the forum and my handle.

[jred321]

Incorrect. Look at my join date for the forum and my handle.
then how did you not know the MS3 was going to get the same aftermarket support and run into the same issues of tunability of every other mazda (sans miata and rx7) ever built? a blind man could have seen that coming

[boostdog]

i say keep your car as it gets good gas mileage has the room you need, while it might not be everything you want and then buy a bike! you can buy a used 5-10 year old bike that will give you what you need for performace all day long!

[Wagonbacker9]

then how did you not know the MS3 was going to get the same aftermarket support and run into the same issues of tunability of every other mazda (sans miata and rx7) ever built? a blind man could have seen that coming

I don't think the issues is having been forewarned... I think the issue is putting up with that, along with the fit and finish problems leading to creaks and rattles of a brand new car, when he very well could just cut his losses and run to a completely different platform.

That said, I don't think you'll be happy with the magnum... to me, they're a factory lowered SUV and no matter which way you look at it, I see it as a step down from the MS3.

[badmotorfinger]

That dealer called back today. Didn't even think about applying vaseline. They offered a whopping 16k, and actually seems suprised at my indignation before I hung up. Major douchery going on there. I'll try to put the motor popping out of mind, install mounts and new plugs and re-evaluate.

[mckraut]

That does seem a bit low for trade-in value. I think KBB on my '07 with a little over 30k miles is something like $14,000.

[LazerBlueP5]

then how did you not know the MS3 was going to get the same aftermarket support and run into the same issues of tunability of every other mazda (sans miata and rx7) ever built? a blind man could have seen that coming

It was my first performance oriented Mazda. Consider it lessoned learned. Mazda hasn't been serious about performance since the RX-7.

[bgibb68]

i'll speak from some experiance....my sis bought a 98 dakota with the v6...my dad took it off her hands a few years lata and i now have it.....

i damn near did a rebuild.....replaced all the top end gaskets, cleaned it up, had to flush the motor, replace the oil pump, clean out ther pan(2 hand fulls of solids, this was done about 4 years ago) now the oil thing is about 50% of some flaws with the motor and 50% being cheap oil.....but the thing runs great now....

it's over 10 years old, the paint on it is orig and looks better than my p5 but that is a hit and miss with dodge(in case you have ever seen any dodges out there with no paint left on the hood or roof)

my parents also have a caravan, the rear hatch had to be rapainted, twice do to the paint thing but over all no issues with the van.

as always, it's a hit and miss....dodge motors are spectacular IMO but they need better upkeep than most....

[taylorex]

That dealer called back today. Didn't even think about applying vaseline. They offered a whopping 16k, and actually seems suprised at my indignation before I hung up. Major douchery going on there. I'll try to put the motor popping out of mind, install mounts and new plugs and re-evaluate.

I went down this patch also. I have a subby and the speed 3. I speed fits the budget and a few other things, but it does have some issues. We tried to trade it in and got offered 14K for it. So my girl and I decided to keep it and just fix the issues that will arrise as I add mods. If the wheel hop is killing you as it did me, get the Medieval motor mounts and traction bars. HUGE improvement. Right now I'm looking at buying a motor because the pop issue is in my head everytime I get on it.

[badmotorfinger]

Well I flashed with the AP and fuel/boost cut was solved. The car ran excellent. But I could not stop fretting about the motor popping with no conclusive evidence as to why. So, I bailed. Got ~$18k for trade on the MS3. The '07 SRT8 has 13k miles and every available option for $24k. Will be keeping this one stock. Will be posting my mods for sale after I get pics.

[Wagonbacker9]

quitter. lol

[240ka]

well with P3 and CP-E being the first to break the 400WHP(409whp to be exact) this weekend and still having much more to get out of the engine. are you sure you are ready to leave?

[Wagonbacker9]

apparently so... lol looks like he's already done.

[xpnsvxj]

I work for a dealership and I can tell you that you will get killed in the car if you trade it right now. Your only hope it that the SRT-8 has been sitting on the lot for a while and they really need to get rid of it but I can tell you they are still not going to load up on your trade. I just looked in black book which is what dealerships look at there is no book on an 09 so I looked up an 08. You would be luckly to get 17 for it right now. Mazda is doing some crazy things on new ones right now so no one is going to load up in a trade they can't move.

[Wagonbacker9]

I work for a dealership and I can tell you that you will get killed in the car if you trade it right now. Your only hope it that the SRT-8 has been sitting on the lot for a while and they really need to get rid of it but I can tell you they are still not going to load up on your trade. I just looked in black book which is what dealerships look at there is no book on an 09 so I looked up an 08. You would be luckly to get 17 for it right now. Mazda is doing some crazy things on new ones right now so no one is going to load up in a trade they can't move.

some people's kids I tell ya.... He GOT ~$18 for it....

[stdntDrvr]

they may have shown him 18, but could have given him less...dodges book incredibly well, for some reason...at trade-in, it could be work 16 (black book)...but NADA will retail/trade it for 20K/18K...it's retarded, but that's why you see so many broke asses driving them...they're easier to get financed due to the huge gap between actual value (black book) and nada (which is what banks use).

[Captain KRM P5]

well with P3 and CP-E being the first to break the 400WHP(409whp to be exact) this weekend and still having much more to get out of the engine. are you sure you are ready to leave?

they are not the first, simply the first in recent memory.

that being said, there are exciting things being worked on for the car.

[taylorex]

well with P3 and CP-E being the first to break the 400WHP(409whp to be exact) this weekend and still having much more to get out of the engine. are you sure you are ready to leave?

I read that as well. I will get my car back next week and might build a motor now.

[240ka]

they are not the first, simply the first in recent memory.

that being said, there are exciting things being worked on for the car.

for sure, good news for all of us...vendors and consumers

[badmotorfinger]

I'm really hopeful that the pieces to this car's puzzle start coming together for everyone soon. I'll be lurking here and on the other forum to keep up with developments. I have to say, when I removed all my mods (sans intake/inlet) for the trade-in, it was still a blast to drive...and much more civilized than I remembered.

[Pockets]

What about a 350Z or G35? About as fast as an MS3 stock, but with RWD and a decent amount of upgrade options. If it's speed your looking for, I would choose an '00-02 TransAm with RamAir or even a Pontiac GTO over the ugly magnum.
Anything with AWD and a turbo is going to have an easy upgrade path, but Subies usually need the tranny to be built up for even modest power gains.

Personally, I'm quite partial to the 90's Twin Turbo 6-Cylinders. Supras and 300ZXs are both hard to find and expensive, but the market for 3000GTs is fairly decent sized. I love my 3000GT VR-4, its the only of these twin turbo cars with AWD. BPU upgrades in total costing less than $1000 easily let a car like this gain an extra 100HP, and many turbo upgrade paths are available.. The engine internals can take up to ~600+ HP at the wheels, and the transmission is fine other than the necessary clutch upgrade. Only downside with one of these cars is that your going to be paying a lot for regular maintenance, and small things tend to break somewhat often. But it's worth the price of admission, and a VR-4 makes a great project car.

[pcpower]

I haven't read through the entire 3 pages, although most of it, but a couple quick questions after reading the initial post.

did the problems begin after u began modding? or even when it was stock was there wheel hop, squeaks, etc.

not too familiar with the SRT's u referred to, but sounds like a big engine with an auto transmission? personally I traded in a manual turbo car for v6 auto at one point, and I pretty much instantly regretted it. a small/avg size turbo 4 cylinder is not comparable to a v6 or above, it is just a different type of vehicle altogether,,,,,,,, so I guess it depends what your preference is.

[badmotorfinger]

The interior rattles (e-brake button and the infamous piano black trim around the clock display) were there since I drove it off the lot with 4 miles. Yes, there were fixes listed for these, but I never did them and just bitched. Not doing the fix was my fault, but the fact that they even existed-well, that's on Mazda. I never got wheel hop or fuel/boost cut until I added my TMIC. But the AP fixed my cut and most of my wheel hop. (My ordered MM's never came)
The order of my mods was:
-Forge BPV
-Corksport Intake/inlet
-Vibrant Exhaust
-ETS TMIC
-Cobb AP
As I mentioned when I took my mods off (the intake/inlet is still on the car) I was just amazed at how quiet and smoother driving the car was. And I honestly was thinking, perhaps trading is a mistake. But I am fine with my decision. I am more than pleased with the power, and the gas mileage is not too bad (I averaged 20 doing 75-80 on hiway). No, it does not handle as crisply as the Speed, but it's not a sloppy pig/lowered SUV as some have opined. And the ride, while still firm, is notably better. The Benz suspension components may have something to do with that.

[LazerBlueP5]

Congrats on the trade man! Of course people are going to stone you- you have to expect fan-loyalty and fanboy'ism, after all it IS a Mazda forum.

Regarding the comment about CPE putting down 400whp- that's very impressive but a ton of upgrade/work. Is that even the stock turbo and pump gas? I would love to see what it's pulling in the 1/4 (with and without slicks).
I have a feeling it still won't be as fast as a SRT6 with a simple pulley, intake, and tune. Most have seen 12.0-12.1 with that ($1500) setup. I ran slower because I'm a fatass. (bang)

PS The Magnum is the coolest looking SRT8! Good choice!!!!

[mikesul]

Reading these posts makes me wonder why I sold my '08 C6 with 480rwhp to get an '09 MS3GT. It seems a lot of guys want to move on from the MS3. I've had four Corvettes in a row since '93 and decided to try something different until the C7's come out. So far (800 miles) I am having fun with the car, much better mileage around town. Was getting 13 in the modded vette, but 26 on the highway on trips.
So far only mods are TWM short shifter w/SU bushings, SU rear engine mount, and Pioneer AVIC F90BT nav unit. Changed out the speakers to Pioneer DS520C's and added a Pioneer amp with 60 w/channel. Have a MSCAI on order and am looking at a DP as the next addition.
I think that this is a fun platform to play with for a while, but I am not looking to modify to the extent I did to the C6.

[turbo23]

It seems most of the US today is power hungry. Sure its fun to make loads of power, but where is the focus on other areas? Keep the engine stockish, and drive the car. Upgrade the suspension, and do some driving. More power generally means more up keep and more problems.

[Redlinez]

If I could afford a SRT8 300, Charger, or Magnum, a MS3 wouldn't be in the same sentence. No offense to the Mazda fans, but there's no comparison. That's why they make different priced cars. Just be ready when it needs brakes and tires. They're nuts. The MS3 is far from perfect as I continually am reminded when I read on several forums. Just like the Civic Si and VW GTI, oh wait, every frickin performance car!!!! OH, and I'm a Chrysler service advisor and have owned Mazdas, Hondas, VW's, Nissans, Pontiacs, Chryslers, Chevys, Fords, Acuras.......

[PureDrive]

If I could afford a SRT8 300, Charger, or Magnum, a MS3 wouldn't be in the same sentence. No offense to the Mazda fans, but there's no comparison.

Definately right on that one. On one hand you have quality, reliability, modern technology, and style.........and on the other hand you have the big old poorly designed/made American cars........that the Mazda probably outperforms in several catagories........Have a nice day. :)

[Wagonbacker9]

to each their own guys... really.

[Captain KRM P5]

to each their own guys... really.

as true as this is, this never happens on a forum centric to a particular car or model. opinions are like assholes and everyone has one.

[robin2660]

as true as this is, this never happens on a forum centric to a particular car or model. opinions are like assholes and everyone has one.

Wow that's some deep sheet! (sun)

Keep up the good work.

[Wagonbacker9]

thats my point, everyone has opinions, and we aught to just respect each others as individuals. no need to trash talk.

[boosted1]

Can't we just get along? lol