Warning for the speed6ers

[Sylinc18]

I upgraded from stock to Atp 3071 turbo because my stock turbo blew....apparently my first turbo blew because of my turbo back exhaust the mazda dealership told me, so it wasn't covered under the warranty which was complete CRAP. So then the dealership actually let me put in an aftermarket turbo, it ended up blowing my engine even though they said that it would be fine as long as i took it easy on the car, more crap....so anyone if you ever plan on upgrading a turbo on this car you must rebuild your engine first, the block cannot take the pressure and you will be looking down a big hole

[daonly1around]

so did you buy the car used with a TBE or did you put it on yourself? And yes, a TBE will void warrenty work on a turbo.

As far as a Bigger turbo blowing your motor, well yeah, thats gonna happen if your not running proper EMS...

I doubt you'll get much support from these forum, but best of luck none the less

[SuperStretch18]

If the dealer really told you that, then they gave you really bad advice.

Big turbo + no tune (?) = Boom

I don't think that there are any cars out there that wouldn't apply to...

[tviera]

Sorry to hear. You must be new to boosted motors. Any time you add more boost, you need a retune. It seems after the rebuild with forged internals, you'll be on your way to a nicely modded MS6. Do some research on standbacks, standalone, or overriding EMS. Good Luck.

[M@ck]

like everyone once else says: It's all about tuning. You have to be aware of the psi your running. Also a wideband is a must when running upgraded turbos. 20psi on a k04 is much different that 20psi on a GT35 turbo.

[Protephile]

Apparently, the advice was not taken:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123730156

Too bad about the motor, that's an expensive lesson to learn.

[Sylinc18]

so did you buy the car used with a TBE or did you put it on yourself? And yes, a TBE will void warrenty work on a turbo.

As far as a Bigger turbo blowing your motor, well yeah, thats gonna happen if your not running proper EMS...

I doubt you'll get much support from these forum, but best of luck none the less

I bought the car new...and i know the TBE voids the warranty, but i also know that my turbo going bad was not because of the TBE and it just sucks that mazda is uneducated and just blames it on that right away. I am relatively new to all this which is why when the dealer told me it would be fine as long as the car wasn't pushed hard it would be ok and i believed the. I knew what i was getting myself into putting in the new turbo. I was aware of the mods needed, it just really sucked cuz this was my only car and when the stock turbo blew i needed my car drivable and i wasn't going to put stock back in since it was only hundreds more to put in an aftermarket when i had already planned on doing so.

[Sylinc18]

Even more more funny before all this happened i also need clutch work done because for some reason out of nowhere my clutch pedal started to pulsate back at me when i would push about and inch of the way down. Mazda tells me thats like maybe a 2500 dollar repair for a new pressure plate bearrings and a new flywheel because they say they cannot resurface the old flywheel if in fact so it is bad. So i would have gotten the necessary mods for this to prevent what happened but this car just loves to suck money....i think if i still keep the car ill install a money feeding machine on it so i can give it treats every now and then

[jred321]

first mod: educated driver
second mod: parts

if you haven't yet given up on your car i recommend getting corky bell's "maximum boost." it's a good read about turbochargers on cars

[Wagonbacker9]

guys, cut him some slack.. I know where he lives... its the one place in the county you can buy beer at after 9pm... let that tell you what it needs to. OK, I'm kidding, but that is actually true.

sylinc18, you were warned what support mods you needed before upgrading the turbo... you have no one to blame for this but yourself. If you are uneducated about modding, you should heed the warnings of others who know what they're talking about, or not mod at all. If you want help rebuilding this car, I'd be happy to lend a wrench hand and get you up to speed on what you've gotten yourself into. If you sell the car, do me a favor and PM it to me so I know what I'm getting into if I run into that car on a lot some day.

[bova80]

what indications showed that your stock turbo was bad? smoke from the exhaust? if thats the case your turbo probably wasn't bad it was just some oil getting by the seals which could have been fixed by using thicker oil, which a lot of us do with upgraded downpipes and exhausts. now granted you let the dealer install your gt30 i doubt they did it right and had anything set up right for it. did you have a boost gauge? what boost levels were you running? this sounds all to fishy and as much as i hate to say it i dont feel for you as you really should do the reading before you go doing stuff like that. you can't trust a dealer, hell half of them think the recommended oil for this car is 5w20 which is why half the turbos smoke, its just to thin. build your motor is about all you can do.

it is not necessary to build the engine if you upgrade turbo, however it may be recommended. there was a guy, whoosh, he had a gt35 on his car and ran unbuilt, put down 380hp. you just have to know what you are doing.

[SuperStretch18]

Even more more funny before all this happened i also need clutch work done because for some reason out of nowhere my clutch pedal started to pulsate back at me when i would push about and inch of the way down. Mazda tells me thats like maybe a 2500 dollar repair for a new pressure plate bearrings and a new flywheel because they say they cannot resurface the old flywheel if in fact so it is bad. So i would have gotten the necessary mods for this to prevent what happened but this car just loves to suck money....i think if i still keep the car ill install a money feeding machine on it so i can give it treats every now and then

The vibration in the clutch was probably the first indication that you had bent a rod. Others have stopped driving and disassembled at that point, only to find rod #3 shaped like this -----> )

[Wagonbacker9]

The vibration in the clutch was probably the first indication that you had bent a rod. Others have stopped driving and disassembled at that point, only to find rod #3 shaped like this -----> )

threadjack:
why rod #3? anyone know?

[Wagonbacker9]

I'm talking about here locally. Vegas... well you guys have your own rules out there... aka the lack there of.

*sigh* must be nice.

[Wagonbacker9]

yeah, said county, not country. understandable mistake. lol

[SuperStretch18]

threadjack:
why rod #3? anyone know?

Balance shaft causing improper oiling to that cylinder?

[Wagonbacker9]

so balance shaft removal is recommended?

[Parad0x01]

I did a ton of reading about this car before I decided to start modding it and if I'm not sure about something I just ask...if the turbo was smoking thats a known issue and it doesnt mean the turbo is bad but its always the first thing the dealership says because they want u to pay them $2k+ to install a new one once they void your warranty. If I ever decide to get a bigger turbo for this car the first thing I'm doing is installing forged internals...its a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new motor.

But that'll never happen because this is my daily driver and I cant afford to miss work because I decided to mod it...thats why I'm buying an FD this summer ;)

Oh and I'm with everyone else about needing a tune.

[bova80]

under high boost levels which i'm sure you were running 20+ with your GT30 the balance shaft can bind up causing rod number 3 to bend. then continuing to run like this would only cause it to grow weaker until it finally gives way and blows a hole in the side of your block.

[Wagonbacker9]

under high boost levels which i'm sure you were running 20+ with your GT30 the balance shaft can bind up causing rod number 3 to bend. then continuing to run like this would only cause it to grow weaker until it finally gives way and blows a hole in the side of your block.

that almost sounds... logical!

[DerangedPony]

I work at a dealer in the Milwaukee area and I heard the story of a guy who blew up his stock turbo out of warranty so the guy had the dealer install a way to big turbo so this must be him. lol

If it is the same car, the mechanic who worked on it was not stupid. There are at least two guys there that own modified speed6's and they know how to work on them. It just sounds like a owner who didnt listen to all the warnings.

[Sylinc18]

that almost sounds... logical!


what indications showed that your stock turbo was bad? smoke from the exhaust? if thats the case your turbo probably wasn't bad it was just some oil getting by the seals which could have been fixed by using thicker oil, which a lot of us do with upgraded downpipes and exhausts. now granted you let the dealer install your gt30 i doubt they did it right and had anything set up right for it. did you have a boost gauge? what boost levels were you running? this sounds all to fishy and as much as i hate to say it i dont feel for you as you really should do the reading before you go doing stuff like that. you can't trust a dealer, hell half of them think the recommended oil for this car is 5w20 which is why half the turbos smoke, its just to thin. build your motor is about all you can do.

it is not necessary to build the engine if you upgrade turbo, however it may be recommended. there was a guy, whoosh, he had a gt35 on his car and ran unbuilt, put down 380hp. you just have to know what you are doing.

It was smoke from the exhaust, and i used the boost gague on my dashhawk to get readings on how much pressure i was getting. my boost levels were running at 13 or 15 psi, then once throttle was open more it would creep up to 18-20 psi. But hey im not asking anyone to "feel for me" this aint no pity thread i just thought it b of some use letting people know thats all.

and trust me i was very well aware of the probelms of upgrading to this turbo and what precautions to take. and i know i am to blame but i dont think i am to blame 100%. I knew of this problem when it was installed but im just saying i was told that it would be fine to just drive normally until i get the problem fixed, as the mazda technician stated.

and as for derangedpony, whats your name just curious i might have actually met you, because i am the one your thinking of, my car is at the dealer right now. But damn dude whats so funny? before you go on, i never said that the mechanic that worked on it was stupid and i never said he did a crappy job of installing it or anything, matter of fact i was ecstatic of the good job he did installing it. I had no complaints there. And i did listen to the warnings i knew what i had to do, dunno if you read everything but i was kind of in need of a turbo to make my car work and the price of replacing the stock compared to the ATP, well it just seemed logical

[bova80]

the smoking didn't mean your turbo wasn't working

[Sylinc18]

the smoking didn't mean your turbo wasn't working

Dunno, mazda just told me that i would need a new turbo otherwise my car wouldn't run

[Wagonbacker9]

the smoking didn't mean your turbo wasn't working

were you making boost when the turbo was smoking?

[Sylinc18]

were you making boost when the turbo was smoking?

Yes i think so, it was a while back so im not positive and back then i didnt have anything to read my PSI

[Wagonbacker9]

Yes i think so, it was a while back so im not positive and back then i didnt have anything to read my PSI

you know from how it drove if it was making boost or not. If you were.. then your turbo wasn't toasted. at worst it would need a rebuild... and as the others have said, thicker oil may have gotten you back in one piece on its own... I think you got taken by the dealer.

[Sylinc18]

I think i did too, and its happening once again with this problem here! WOOOHOOO

[Wagonbacker9]

what happened to the old turbo, you have the right to take it home with you when they do the work....

[Sylinc18]

Yes i know i have the old turbo in my garage still with all the other parts from after the installation. there was oil all inside of it though

[DerangedPony]

What happened is not funny, it's the fact that I heard about your car by word of mouth and now I see you on the forums.

I also dont think that your turbo was ever bad, who really told you it was.... the mechanic or the service adviser. Like I said, I know who worked on your car and I dont think he would say that...... but many times the service advisers talk out of their arse. I've been to that dealer and I know the service adviser there kinda suck, at least the ones I saw.

I am also new to turbo cars much like you are (I came from fox body stangs), but I think you went about the problem the wrong way. Once the dealer said the turbo was junk, you should have gotten a second opinion from the forums and then a third from another mazda dealer. If it was really bad, you could have gotten a used stock turbo for $150. Then go along with the rest of your upgrades and look for a big turbo down the road.

Anyways, live and learn...... I hope you get the car back on the road.

[Sylinc18]

What happened is not funny, it's the fact that I heard about your car by word of mouth and now I see you on the forums.

I also dont think that your turbo was ever bad, who really told you it was.... the mechanic or the service adviser. Like I said, I know who worked on your car and I dont think he would say that...... but many times the service advisers talk out of their arse. I've been to that dealer and I know the service adviser there kinda suck, at least the ones I saw.

I am also new to turbo cars much like you are (I came from fox body stangs), but I think you went about the problem the wrong way. Once the dealer said the turbo was junk, you should have gotten a second opinion from the forums and then a third from another mazda dealer. If it was really bad, you could have gotten a used stock turbo for $150. Then go along with the rest of your upgrades and look for a big turbo down the road.

Anyways, live and learn...... I hope you get the car back on the road.

Thanks man. Yea im somewhat new too, but this is totally a lesson i dont need to learn, but i guess glad i am? Yea now that you mention it that shyt is pretty funny bout you hearin about me in different places. Neway i forget his name tho who worked on my car, it might have been DJ? he was a cool dude i liked him, but he did tell me and i forget his exact words of what the problem was but he said around 4000 rpms there is a problem, like i said i dont remember his exact words, so i took that caution without hesisitating. But somehow, when even not going beyond 4000rpms, the boost still managed to creep so high to blow the engine as is what i believe happened, i dont think they got to indepth with my repairs as of now. One more thing, i still have my old turbo, is it still worth something? And im guessing this isn't even worth mentioning to mazda about the old turbo? Because i thought it was some bull myself....They mainly blamed it on my TBE creating too much back pressure thus damagaing the bearring or something and thats how the oil got in and after that i guess they said the turbo was done. Cuz ya know i thought the idea of a TBE is to relieve the turbo more than creating so much back pressure....just wanna hear your thoughts, sorry for being so long but thanks

[DerangedPony]

I'm sure your stock turbo is worth something. Even if it needs a rebuild, the core is still worth something.

[bova80]

the creep issue is a problem with the ATP turbos for this car. the internal wastegates on them are not ported enough and this cause the creep issue that probably happened to you.

[Mistersix]

so you have to run external wastegate to run a gt turbo? is there even a manifold out there to run an external wastegate?

*sorry, thread jack*

[Sylinc18]

so you have to run external wastegate to run a gt turbo? is there even a manifold out there to run an external wastegate?

*sorry, thread jack*

No not necessarily. There is one manifold out there by PG that has an external wastegate setup ready to go, otherewise you have to have a custom weld a flange on the manifold to make that work. Definately get a EMS tho...

[bova80]

typically you should unless you port the wastegate on it. anyone that has an AP or the cp-e full throttle flash should port or get external wastegate since the throttle plate is now held open to red line creep issues become worse. there are other manifolds now that have external wastegaste spots on them. you can get the PG one with that option or also the steedspeed or midevil manifold.

[Benfolio]

(eek2)

[Booster]

I want to understand this thread, your engine is being rebuilt? Are you goin to upgrade to forged internals? or are you goin to rebuild to factory pieces?

the logical recomendation would be not to use your car with the GT 3071R unless you are goin to use forged internals, but my engine runned fine for15k miles or more with the GT 3071r boosting 18 and creeping to almost 22psi, later on I installed a 7 PSI and has been boosting a controled 17-18PSI, till one of the ball bearings in the GT fail some weeks ago.

But my engine is still alive at 42k miles, 40kmiles with the GT.

So I think nobody knows for sure, why some of this engines survive the GT turbo and some dont.

[AWDTerror]

So I think nobody knows for sure, why some of this engines survive the GT turbo and some dont.

Because people start fiddling with shit they know nothing about.

This thread is absolutely idiotic.


I upgraded from stock to Atp 3071 turbo because my stock turbo blew....apparently my first turbo blew because of my turbo back exhaust the mazda dealership told me, so it wasn't covered under the warranty which was complete CRAP.No it wasn't CRAP. One of two things happened, because of how Mazda does their warranty, since the car was burning oil they assumed it was the turbo, or the turbo was actually blown, because a TBE will cause your turbo to creed and spin the turbo faster than what it's rated for and you cook the center section. So then the dealership actually let me put in an aftermarket turbo, it ended up blowing my engine even though they said that it would be fine as long as i took it easy on the car, more crapNot crap, like everyone else you didn't drive it easy, you probably got on it racing someone or whatever and you ran into a lean situation, at that point it was only a matter of time before it let go.....so anyone if you ever plan on upgrading a turbo on this car you must rebuild your engine first, the block cannot take the pressure and you will be looking down a big holeWrong, this block is capable of holding 400+HP, people on this board have done it, Mazda even did it with a test MS6.

[jeffms6]

Thanks man. Yea im somewhat new too, but this is totally a lesson i dont need to learn, but i guess glad i am? Yea now that you mention it that shyt is pretty funny bout you hearin about me in different places. Neway i forget his name tho who worked on my car, it might have been DJ? he was a cool dude i liked him, but he did tell me and i forget his exact words of what the problem was but he said around 4000 rpms there is a problem, like i said i dont remember his exact words, so i took that caution without hesisitating. But somehow, when even not going beyond 4000rpms, the boost still managed to creep so high to blow the engine as is what i believe happened, i dont think they got to indepth with my repairs as of now. One more thing, i still have my old turbo, is it still worth something? And im guessing this isn't even worth mentioning to mazda about the old turbo? Because i thought it was some bull myself....They mainly blamed it on my TBE creating too much back pressure thus damagaing the bearring or something and thats how the oil got in and after that i guess they said the turbo was done. Cuz ya know i thought the idea of a TBE is to relieve the turbo more than creating so much back pressure....just wanna hear your thoughts, sorry for being so long but thanks

Turbo-back exhausts do not create back pressure... they reduce back pressure. This sometimes causes the turbo seals to leak a little oil (usually at vacuum idle) which causes the smoking. I've heard full synthetic oil smokes more than traditional oil. Catless TBE are worse because no Cats to provide any back pressure at all. I've had no problems with my CPE Catted DP.

[tunersteve]

I really see no value to this thread at this point...

[Atreyu3388]

I really see no value to this thread at this point...

+1

[Rutedown]

Sylinc18,

I don't understand why you didn't get on the internet and search the 2 or 3 forums with MS6'ers and ask about your turbo? If you did you would of been pointed to the many threads of people who had this problem and either had the dealer handle it under warranty or resolved them on their own. I don't make a move unless I check with these forums because there are people here who have methodically done what you did and more whose engines are still intact. Do yourself a favor and whatever your next car is, get involved in the local car club or find a forum with people who have done what you want to do so they can enlighten you to the risks involved.

[tunersteve]

Closed to stop any future nonsense.