Speaker replacement

[bacarl]

So, I try to be mostly a suspension kind of guy. I know about as much about car audio as my grandma knows about bump steer and camber gain.

What I do know is that I'm not happy with the way my Bose system sounds. I can't really put my finger on specifics, but it somehow manages to have insufficient bass and treble at the same time. I know everyone bitches about Bose this and that, and I've done a fair amount of searching and posted in some threads but haven't learned anything.

I don't want to replace my stock HU, and I'd much rather not add amps; adding subs is out of the question. What I could do myself is change out speakers. What would that do for me? Could I add a couple higher-end speakers in the front doors with the existing wiring/connections and be happy with the results?

Any input appreciated, thanks guys

[TheRealDefman]

Lots of folks with upgraded speakers and they would probably be a very good place to start. The Infinity Kappa series seems to be well liked, and I'm very happy with mine.

[derspi]

In a nutshell, just replacing the stock speakers without additional amplification will not do a whole lot. You might get some audible improvement but TBH, the only real way to get something noticeably better is to ditch the Bose amps & speakers altogether. This is especially true if you want a bit more bass, because without more power, you just won't get more output.

There's also the issue of whether or not the stock Bose system is outputting to 4 ohms. Since most aftermarket speakers are rated for 4 ohm operation, if the Bose amps are outputting to 1 ohm or 2 ohm then you'll run into problems here as well.

[chief_wiggum]

You don't happen to have one of the many bad headunits do you? Mine did and the system sounded horrible. It sounded a lot better once I got the replacement. You may have seen the numerous threads about how to check to see if you've got a bad one...if there's a big difference between vol 34 and 35, you've got one of the many bad HUs

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123699395&highlight=bose+stereo+bass

[Design]

In a nutshell, just replacing the stock speakers without additional amplification will not do a whole lot. You might get some audible improvement but TBH, the only real way to get something noticeably better is to ditch the Bose amps & speakers altogether. This is especially true if you want a bit more bass, because without more power, you just won't get more output.

There's also the issue of whether or not the stock Bose system is outputting to 4 ohms. Since most aftermarket speakers are rated for 4 ohm operation, if the Bose amps are outputting to 1 ohm or 2 ohm then you'll run into problems here as well.

The Bose puts out 2 ohms, so you do need to be very careful which speakers you buy. Over time, 4 ohm speakers will eventually blow. Fortunately, Kappas are rated at 2 ohms. And contrary to popular belief, components alone DO make a significant difference without having to replace the amp (Kappas do not need a lot of power to sound good). The signal from the stock amp and HU is actually pretty good, though I've heard Bose amp cuts off high and low frequencies to promote longer speaker life.

[bacarl]

^^That's pretty much exactly what my system sounds like, sans highs and lows. Thanks for the help guys - it's very, er, helpful :)

wiggum, thanks for the info on the bad HU's. I have read through a lot of those posts and I believe my HU is fine. It plays at normal volumes (9-12 ish normally) and doesn't seem to change much depending on volume level. It just sounds lousy all the time.

This is where it sucks to be dumb: I don't know if the HU sends the 2ohm signal, or the amp, or what. If I decide I need a full system upgrade, could I get a 4ohm amp and speakers and run them on the stock HU?

Or would a good start be to simply pick up some Kappas for the front doors, see how they sound, and if more is needed I could get more speakers/amp later? I like this idea because it's cheap and easy, as long as it makes sense...

[Design]

^^That's pretty much exactly what my system sounds like, sans highs and lows. Thanks for the help guys - it's very, er, helpful :)

wiggum, thanks for the info on the bad HU's. I have read through a lot of those posts and I believe my HU is fine. It plays at normal volumes (9-12 ish normally) and doesn't seem to change much depending on volume level. It just sounds lousy all the time.

This is where it sucks to be dumb: I don't know if the HU sends the 2ohm signal, or the amp, or what. If I decide I need a full system upgrade, could I get a 4ohm amp and speakers and run them on the stock HU?

Or would a good start be to simply pick up some Kappas for the front doors, see how they sound, and if more is needed I could get more speakers/amp later? I like this idea because it's cheap and easy, as long as it makes sense...

The HU does not send an amplified signal at all, so running speakers directly off the HU would not work. You need to keep the Bose amp or something comparable. I think your idea of getting 2 ohm Kappa components would be fine. It would allow you flexibility to upgrade later. Good luck.

[bacarl]

Cool. I'm happy to keep the Bose amp and just work with speakers.

I just have to make sure I buy the right stuff... According to Crutchfield, the fronts are 6x8; according to this thread (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8940), they're 5x7. But I'm thinking since they're interchangeable it probably doesn't matter.

Crutchfield has 5x7/6x8 Kappas, but from the pic it looks like they have seperate tweeters and some kind of control module? What's up with that. *edit: posted a pic below*

[bacarl]

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2008/108/h1086809CS-f-1.jpeg



Well I was able to answer my own question, and learned about 2-way vs component in the process. :) Those of you who've installed Kappas, have you gone with component? It seems like a pain to try and package the crossovers and tweeters...

According to the guy I talked to at Crutchfield, the Kappa 2-ways are just too large to fit. Sounds like they might fit or be coaxed to fit though. He recommended the Infinity Reference instead, but those are significantly less expensive.

If someone can vouch for the Kappa 2-ways, I'll go that route.

[ecniemann]

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2008/108/h1086809CS-f-1.jpeg



Well I was able to answer my own question, and learned about co-ax/full range vs component in the process. :) Those of you who've installed Kappas, have you gone with component? It seems like a pain to try and package the crossovers and tweeters...

I did, but do not have the Bose system. I have the Sport. I surface mounted the tweeters in the stock location, and made a "new" location on the sail panels for the rears. I used industrial double sided tape to mount the crossovers inside the speaker compartment in the doors. I obviously cleaned everything very well before doing this and lightly covered the crossovers with plastic just in case any water/dirt got on them. Has sounded awesome since. If I were you, I'd probably just stick with coaxials; they are easy, no drilling, running wire, etc. Hope that helps.

I can guarantee the component woofer fits. If the coaxial does not, it would have to be due to the depth. The reference are still very good speakers, I believe just a little less power handling (not a big deal), and may sound slightly different, but I have never compared side-to-side.

[bacarl]

Yeah the depth seems to be the issue - like 4 thousandths of an inch. I might be able to remove that much material from the screens or bend them slightly. Or, he told me since that's an impossible place to physically measure, with that small of an interference they might end up fitting just fine on their own.

[ecniemann]

Yeah the depth seems to be the issue - like 4 thousandths of an inch. I might be able to remove that much material from the screens or bend them slightly. Or, he told me since that's an impossible place to physically measure, with that small of an interference they might end up fitting just fine on their own.

Yeah, you could probably pretty easily remove some material from the door. The screen mesh on the doors is not usually what interferes, it's where the plastic on the inside aspect of the door meets the speaker baffle. This can easily be filed down to fit.

[TheRealDefman]

You can pick up the Kappa 682.7 pretty cheap and they are great 2-ways. They have a small outboard x-over that you'll have to deal with.

[bacarl]

I did, but do not have the Bose system. I have the Sport. I surface mounted the tweeters in the stock location ... If I were you, I'd probably just stick with coaxials; they are easy, no drilling, running wire, etc. Hope that helps.
Thanks man. Ya know I hadn't even thought about the existing tweeters... Wouldn't installing a coaxial mess things up? I'd have twice as many tweeters!

How do the tweeters install in the door sails anyhow? Is there some kind of bracket that screws on like the woofer?

Looks like the 682.7 is discontinued on Crutchfield's site. They do have a coaxial Kappa but that's the one with the fitment issue.

[ecniemann]

Thanks man. Ya know I hadn't even thought about the existing tweeters... Wouldn't installing a coaxial mess things up? I'd have twice as many tweeters!

How do the tweeters install in the door sails anyhow? Is there some kind of bracket that screws on like the woofer?

Looks like the 682.7 is discontinued on Crutchfield's site. They do have a coaxial Kappa but that's the one with the fitment issue.

You could do 1 of 3 things:

1. Get coaxials and only run them, disconnect stock tweeter.

2. Get a component woofer only, as some higher end companies sell these separate from the typical component system that also includes the crossovers and tweeters, and use it with the stock tweeter. One of my friends actually bought components, and then only used the woofers. I know, weird, and a waste of money, but it worked. We eventually replaced the tweeters as well.

3. Could run both tweeters, but not sure if the "different brand" voice matching issue would muddle the sound. Basically you want all speakers to be same brand and same line-up (ie. same type of woofer and tweeter, regardless of speaker size). You also may end up with phase issues (waves cancelling each other or doubling-up).

The stock tweeter mounts to the sail panel from behind with two screws. I removed them and then drilled two holes through the stock "mesh grill", and attached a backer to it, then surface mounted my tweeters to that. Kind of like repairing drywall, if you have ever done that. I could not flush mount those Kappa tweeters as they were too wide, and I would have had to remove at least one mounting clip/pin on the back of the sail panel, making it difficult to re-mount.

Here's a link to some pics I took if you want to see the Kappa tweeters surface mounted. I can take some close-ups if you want. Let me know.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123684643

[TheRealDefman]

How do the tweeters install in the door sails anyhow? Is there some kind of bracket that screws on like the woofer?
The tweeter that came with my Kappa Perfects actually fit into the hole left when I removed the Bose tweeter... wrapped a couple of layers of e-tape around them and are held in by the friction.




Looks like the 682.7 is discontinued on Crutchfield's site. They do have a coaxial Kappa but that's the one with the fitment issue.

Google them, lots of places that still have them for sale for around $80.

[leadf00t]

The tweeter that came with my Kappa Perfects actually fit into the hole left when I removed the Bose tweeter... wrapped a couple of layers of e-tape around them and are held in by the friction.




Google them, lots of places that still have them for sale for around $80.

Where did you mount the X-overs with the 6.1's ?

[TheRealDefman]

Where did you mount the X-overs with the 6.1's ?

Hard to explain without a picture, but I took them out of the green housing and used double-stick tape to put them on the door panel itself, I think it's kind of under/into the armrest? Had to cut off a piece of foam molding.

[Design]

Hard to explain without a picture, but I took them out of the green housing and used double-stick tape to put them on the door panel itself, I think it's kind of under/into the armrest? Had to cut off a piece of foam molding.

IMO that's the best place to stick the crossovers. Removing only a portion of the foam insulation behind the door will prevent unnecessary rattles.

[bacarl]

Well after taking you guys' advice and talking to several guys at Crutchfield I ended up picking up a set of four Reference series Infinitis. The Crutchfield guy told me that if I'm running the stock HU/amp, then there really isn't enough power to justify using a Kappa, and that the Reference would be a better choice. Even those he said are probably over-rated for the stock amp, so there is some headroom to work with if I decide I want more power output later.

So for starters I'll replace all four door speakers with these co-ax References and keep the stock tweeters and sub. The tweeters will not be an issue apparently, but because the sub is so small and relatively underpowered it will probably still sound like ass.

I'm not really into loud bass so I'm hoping it's enough for my needs, but can always add a small sub/amp to supplement it later. I got some of their speaker baffles, which I'm told improve bass response as well as keep the speakers protected from water.

Interesting bit: according to the Crutchfield advisor (who had a friend with a Bose MZ3), our system is designed by Bose (whatever that means) but the components are not actually supplied by Bose. So that's got to be why the system sounds like garbage, because the speakers are some chintzy factory-supplied no-names. Just found that interesting.

[ecniemann]

Cool! Let us know how it sounds. Speakers do make a huge difference in SQ, regardless if other components are changed out. I did this in virtually every car I've ever had with improved results. Then I started getting hardcore my first few years of college.....amps, subs, components, rewiring, never ends! Ha ha! Hope you enjoy it though!

[TheRealDefman]

Any Infinity is a fine choice, let us know how it works out.

[chief_wiggum]

+3; interested in hearing about your results.

[bacarl]

Well thanks to Crutchfield's fine shipping dept, the speakers will arrive today. Unfortuntately this is the travel season for work so I won't be home to put them in for a couple weeks. I'm definitely looking forward to the results so I'll post up impressions when I can.

New question. To actually access and R&R the speakers, does the whole door panel come off? I'm hoping that the speaker grill itself pops off and I can get to them that way. Anyone have pics from during their installs?

[TheRealDefman]

Nope, whole door panel has to come off, pretty easy though. Crutchfield's directions on how to install will come with the speakers.

Take the screw out from the opening handle, take the screw out of the pull area, and starting pulling the panel from the bottom.

[dukebrown]

I ran new speaker wire from a 4way MTX 35Wrms to 4 8yr old Polk DX 5x7 and they sound great still. Good mid range. I got to get rid of the 12" sub...I am too old, I'm going with an 8". Also need to save space since the battery is now in the hatc.

[derspi]

Interesting bit: according to the Crutchfield advisor (who had a friend with a Bose MZ3), our system is designed by Bose (whatever that means) but the components are not actually supplied by Bose. So that's got to be why the system sounds like garbage, because the speakers are some chintzy factory-supplied no-names. Just found that interesting.

Nothing new there, for those that are into SQ, have always known that Bose only designs stuff - they really don't MAKE anything. You could argue that they apply some smart engineering to their systems but the components ie. speakers are usually garbage that is just made to sound better by that engineering. Oh and don't forget all that marketing, always makes for "better sound!"

[bacarl]

Yeah that just blows, I felt ripped off. My favorite feature/selling point of the GT was the seats, but a close second was the Bose audio. I have Bose Companion speakers on my PC and they're awesome, especially considering they're micro-sized :)

[Breezy]

subscribe .. My Bose sounds like crap too. It's like the mid range just lays down .. anyone think about an EQ?

[ecniemann]

subscribe .. My Bose sounds like crap too. It's like the mid range just lays down .. anyone think about an EQ?

I'm not sure an EQ would do anything if the frequencies just aren't there.

[bacarl]

I just opened up the boxes with my speakers in 'em today, i'm very excited!

This week is supposed to be shitty and cold, but in the event that it warms up, i'll install these and post up how they sound :)

[sxates]

My "bose" system sucks as well, very cheap sounding. Looking forward to hearing how new speakers do, as that'd be a pretty easy fix.

[bacarl]

People have reported good luck, but I'm worried that they won't do enough. The system has so little bass, and the head unit filters the sound signal so it's safe for the lousy stock speakers. This means that highs as well as lows are tuned out. The HU doesn't know I have new speakers that can handle it so the sound signal will still be weak. I'll definitely try the Infinities first but I'm thinking I'll need something like a JL Audio Clean Sweep to make the sound signal as good as the speakers can play it. I don't know how the stock amp will factor in...

It pisses me off that I shelled out for this Bose package and it's a POS. You'd think I'd have noticed it during a test drive but it really didn't become clear until I've spent considerable time listening to the stereos in Fords that I drive at work and my gf's Charger. The Bose sounds incredibly weak in comparison and it makes me sad all day.

[chief_wiggum]

Any update?

[TheRealDefman]

^ +1

[Wurf]

The only thing I have to add is the wife's Maxima has a BOSE system and it's a total POS. You can't upgrade any part of it and the only way to improve it is to dump the whole works and start over. This has given me a bad opinion regarding BOSE car stereo in general and the stuff I'm reading here isn't improving that opinion.

IMO my virtually brand new MS3 Bose setup is OK but not impressive by any stretch. I really don't care though. I'm old ( compared to most of you ) and I listen to NPR most of the day during my 15 minute commute.

[sxates]

I had a Bose system in my old Audi A4, and it was one of the best sounding stock systems I've ever heard - there was no reason to upgrade anything, it was stellar already. So not all Bose systems are bad, but the quality is apparently not consistent across all cars, and the luxury cars get much better components than the cheap cars.

[bacarl]

Well like I said earlier, Crutchfield told me that our system is "designed" by Bose, as in maybe the size/placement of speakers? But the components are not high quality.

And sorry, no, still no updates. :( I've been traveling for weeks at a time for work and once I get back home I have to move. But hopefully soon! I'll have a shifter waiting for install by the time I get home from this trip too, and I have to finish up a clean install on my satellite radio. So no shortage of projects, just need to find time.

[GoFast]

any updates bcarl??

[Nliiitend1]

I really don't care though. I'm old ( compared to most of you ) and I listen to NPR most of the day during my 15 minute commute.

(lol2)


As do I (and I'm 28...).

[bacarl]

Ok finally have the update! I've pretty much finished moving into the new place and got my toolbox moved over so I was able to work on the car in my new garage today. :)

Install was not a problem, the door panels pop right off. I got Crutchfield's foam baffles which I trimmed to size and screwed into the doors. I took a few spins around the block and so far no new rattles or anything from R&R'ing all the trim.

All four Bose speakers are 5.25" rounds, very lightweight (which I doubt is a good thing) and have paper cones with foam edges. The Infinities are 5x7's, are significantly heavier with big magnets, and have composite cones with rubber edges.

The sound altogether is still unimpressive. I'm certain that this is due to the amp or the filtered signal coming from the HU. The Infinities sound clearer and less muddy, but the balance between highs mids and lows still sucks. I didn't listen for too long and I'll have a better opinion after a few commutes to work, but I might try a Clean Sweep next so the good speakers are actually getting a good signal.

One thing that might affect the bass is the baffles I installed. They're a thick foam bowl that the speakers fit inside, forming an enclosure. They keep water away from the speaker but also affect bass response. I had to cut a hole in the back for the speaker lead to exit through, and apparently that hole affects the sound just like the enclosure for a sub. I figured I'd cut a tiny slit to keep water out but I was told that air needs to move in and out of the baffle when the woofer cone moves (makes sense) so I cut a hole about 1x1. If I'm feeling motivated maybe I'll try taking everything apart and enlarging that hole. But like I said I'll drive around for a few days and get a better feel for everything.

[chief_wiggum]

thanks for the update...I was hoping for a better end result. However, I will be interested in your follow up in a few days or so to see if after a few commutes to work you feel any better about the swap.

at this point, was it worth it?

[Breezy]

Yes, something of a disappointing result but not unexpected, from my standpoint. I changed out my tweeters and added crossover controls as per this thread ..
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123701496
on the front doors, and it was a considerable improvement, though still not ideal.

What I'm going for now is to do the same with the rears. The bass just tromps all over these door speakers. The rears really sound terrible. I have two options I'm going to try .. the same resistors that the post mentions .. and then I also got some bass blockers to try. The problem with any of these solutions is that with a 2 ohm system you might wind up blocking out more bass than you would prefer. For instance, using the smallest bass blocker you end up blocking bass below 600 hz in a 2 ohm system. Still I'm sure it will improve the rear speaker sound.

As for the factory speakers .. I think if they (Mazda) went thru all the expense of using the moly magnets to save weight, I imagine the speakers themselves are pretty decent. The downfalls of this system seems to be no crossovers in the system. That's really bush league, IMO. Maybe they were supposed to be built into the Bose amp but they didn't get built that way. Even Bose, (Whom I would never by anything from if given a choice) ought to be well versed with using crossover networks properly. Jeesh!

You can get equalizers to better control the system. I considered one that I would place on top of the seat amp, and then just pull it out to adjust the settings, but again, they are all designed for 4 or 8 ohm systems so the crossover results would be doubled compared to a 4 ohm system. BTW, I got all my stuff at Parts Express, the source in the post I linked to.

[ecniemann]

Ok finally have the update! I've pretty much finished moving into the new place and got my toolbox moved over so I was able to work on the car in my new garage today. :)

Install was not a problem, the door panels pop right off. I got Crutchfield's foam baffles which I trimmed to size and screwed into the doors. I took a few spins around the block and so far no new rattles or anything from R&R'ing all the trim.

All four Bose speakers are 5.25" rounds, very lightweight (which I doubt is a good thing) and have paper cones with foam edges. The Infinities are 5x7's, are significantly heavier with big magnets, and have composite cones with rubber edges.

The sound altogether is still unimpressive. I'm certain that this is due to the amp or the filtered signal coming from the HU. The Infinities sound clearer and less muddy, but the balance between highs mids and lows still sucks. I didn't listen for too long and I'll have a better opinion after a few commutes to work, but I might try a Clean Sweep next so the good speakers are actually getting a good signal.

One thing that might affect the bass is the baffles I installed. They're a thick foam bowl that the speakers fit inside, forming an enclosure. They keep water away from the speaker but also affect bass response. I had to cut a hole in the back for the speaker lead to exit through, and apparently that hole affects the sound just like the enclosure for a sub. I figured I'd cut a tiny slit to keep water out but I was told that air needs to move in and out of the baffle when the woofer cone moves (makes sense) so I cut a hole about 1x1. If I'm feeling motivated maybe I'll try taking everything apart and enlarging that hole. But like I said I'll drive around for a few days and get a better feel for everything.

Did you read some reviews on these? I was going to point this out after you mentioned getting them, but did not want to bias your opinion.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_237XT57/XTC-5-x7-Speaker-Baffles-4-1-2-depth.html?tp=2809&tab=review&rvm=ShowAllt

[bacarl]

Wow, those reviews are so varied that I'm not sure which way they might have biased me! Based on my experience, I basically agree with this guy:

I'm sure these work well inside leaky vehicles, but they completely kill the bass. Made my brand new Polks sound like a PC system speaker. If you hate the bass, these are for you!

Having driven around for a few days I have a bit more input. The sound quality/clarity is better with the new speakers, but bass is actually weaker than before! Suppose this could be the baffles acting up? Also in certain songs, there's a very bad buzz during loud guitar or bass guitar riffs. Like a resonance that really makes me wince. This was there with the Bose speakers too, it was one of the things I hated most. But a song came on yesterday (I think it was Panic Switch by Silver Sun Pickups) that I'd heard before with the Bose and the buzz was much worse with the Infinities. I like that song but I had to change the channel. Maybe it's the baffles resonating.

Anyhow, at this point wiggum, these have not been worth it. My hope is that with a Clean Sweep or sub, they will end up being the first step towards a great system. Anyone have a suggestion to that end? I read that the Clean Sweep eliminates the factory filters and sends a flat EQ to the speakers. Would this be preferable? Typically flat EQs don't sound that great either...

[ecniemann]

Wow, those reviews are so varied that I'm not sure which way they might have biased me! Based on my experience, I basically agree with this guy:


Having driven around for a few days I have a bit more input. The sound quality/clarity is better with the new speakers, but bass is actually weaker than before! Suppose this could be the baffles acting up? Also in certain songs, there's a very bad buzz during loud guitar or bass guitar riffs. Like a resonance that really makes me wince. This was there with the Bose speakers too, it was one of the things I hated most. But a song came on yesterday that I'd heard before with the Bose and the buzz was much worse with the Infinities. It's a song I really like but I had to change the channel. Maybe it's the baffles resonating.

Anyhow, at this point wiggum, these have not been worth it. My hope is that with a Clean Sweep or sub, they will end up being the first step towards a great system. Anyone have a suggestion to that end? I read that the Clean Sweep eliminates the factory filters and sends a flat EQ to the speakers. Would this be preferable? Typically flat EQs don't sound that great either...


Sorry to hear that. Before you do anything too drastic, I would first nix the baffles and add some sound deadening to the panels/doors that seem to be affected. I'm not talking about stripping the whole car down and sound deadening head to tail, but more isolate the resonances and deal with them. A small amount of that stuff goes a long way. One little piece over the affected area can elminate the buzz you hear. Personally, I have no resonances other than my R rear door very infrequently, even with amps. But I did have a 1988 Chevy Eurosport wagon that I put new 6x9's in the tailgate and it buzzed like mad. I bought 1 sheet of dynamat, did the metal and plastic areas around the speakers, and it was fine. There are much cheaper products out there than Dynamat, but I am no expert on it. I know there are multiple threads in here on products people have used. If it still is not to your liking after this, you may have to try a CleanSweep, then the next step is pretty much separates all the way around, eliminating the crappy Blose altogether. The cool thing is, if you plan to get amps, dedicated sub, and keep the stock HU, you can still use the Cleansweep. It is kind of a wash getting a cleansweep or new HU. I debated this, and went with a new HU just based on ease of install.

Anyone have a CleanSweep wishing to chime in?

[bacarl]

Yeah, if anyone has experience with the Cleansweep that'd be helpful to hear.

Are our door speakers powered by an amp, or just the sub?

[ecniemann]

Yeah, if anyone has experience with the Cleansweep that'd be helpful to hear.

Are our door speakers powered by an amp, or just the sub?

Yeah, that's a good question. Hopefully some Bose people can chime in that have already messed with this. I have more questions than answers. I thought about it, and do not think a CleanSweep, MTX RE-Q, or the like, would help much, as they are all meant to convert the speaker level signal to line level for external aftermarket amps. You only changed the speakers, but yet require some sort of sound leveling/shaping and crossover to get the appropriate, and full frequency bands, to the right speakers. My question is, if a Cleansweep would work, at what point in the system do you put it? After the HU? After the amp? I am assuming Bose did not put in-line filters at the speakers or in the wiring, but I do not know for sure. Obviously the EQ you'd get would have to go in-line after whatever is mucking up the signal. I know in my car, a base Sport, the HU was responsible for filtering frequencies, and there was no more processing after that, so removing it, or putting a cleansweep in, returns the signal to full, flat response. Plus, like I said, everyone on here that I know that has used some kind of processer, had aftermarket amps as well. The MTX actually looks better for your purposes, as it also has HP/LP crossovers. The question is how to get it wired correctly. Hopefully someone can clear this up. Damn yous Bose system!! Damn yous to hell!!!

[chief_wiggum]

Would you expect a better result if you just bought components that included a crossover -- like these?

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1086820CS/Infinity-Reference-6820cs.html?tp=106

I'm definitely not savvy when it comes to wiring/installing audio systems like it appears most of you guys are. But, as I understand it, part of the problems is that stock, there is no crossover splitting the signal so that lows go to the sub, highs go to the tweaters and everything else goes to the mids in the door, wouldn't replacing the existing so/so door speakers and tweets with higher quality components AND an included crossover help? Again...I'm speaking outside of my comfort zone on this....

[bacarl]

... My question is, if a Cleansweep would work, at what point in the system do you put it? After the HU? After the amp? ...
That's actually exactly why I was wondering about whether an amp powers the door speakers. The Cleansweep is installed after the signal-altering HU, then sends a clean signal to your amps. I don't know if it can send its signal straight to the speakers if no amp exists. I'll call Crutchfield and get some info.

Anyone know about chief wiggum's question? I was told that my two-ways would work just fine, so I'm assuming that I'm still disappointed because of the car's system, not the speakers. If components would have fixed everything up the first time, I'll be bummed. What does the crossover do, exactly?

[ecniemann]

That's actually exactly why I was wondering about whether an amp powers the door speakers. The Cleansweep is installed after the signal-altering HU, then sends a clean signal to your amps. I don't know if it can send its signal straight to the speakers if no amp exists. I'll call Crutchfield and get some info.

Anyone know about chief wiggum's question? I was told that my two-ways would work just fine, so I'm assuming that I'm still disappointed because of the car's system, not the speakers. If components would have fixed everything up the first time, I'll be bummed. What does the crossover do, exactly?

Yes. Wiggum, the crossovers that come with component systems only filter the frequencies that go to those particular speakers. Think of it as a closed system that all works together for those speakers only.

An external crossover (there are multiple varieties) acts on the WHOLE system, so it will direct frequencies above xx# (xx = frequency you set it at) to the appropriate speakers; this is HP (high pass filtering). Frequencies set below xx# then go to the sub, which is LP (low pass) filtering. Some people use external crossovers to filter and direct lows, mids, and highs, but component systems already do the work for mids/highs at the speaker level. Even coaxials have small integrated in-line filters to direct frequencies appropriatelly to the woofer/tweeter in the speaker. These in-line crossovers are just of lower quality. Separates also allow different mounting options for better staging. The crossovers that come with these are just much bigger, better quality, and are separate (hence separates).

External crossovers could potentially be part of your HU, amp, or a stand-alone. Some aftermarket HU's offer 3 band or 2 band crossovers. My Alpine, for instance, allows me to HP filter frequencies to my door speakers at different band levels (for instance 80, 100, or 120 Hz). This is provided if someone had a sub, but the amp used did not have a filter, or if you do not want full range signals going to the doors, which is usually preferable if you already have a sub, otherwise you double-up on those frequencies which can cause phase problems (ie. doubling or canceling of like waves). I am using the crossover filters on my amps though. My 4-channel amp has it's crossovers set to HP at approx 100 Hz for the door speakers and then the components filter this to get highs to tweeters, mids to woofer. My monoblock then has it's LP filter set to 100 Hz as well, where only below 100 Hz frequencies goes to the sub. Some people use to use dedicated external crossovers before everything included them, but they are rarely needed today. Basically all your outputs from the amp or HU went there, were filtered, then went to the appropriate speakers. The MTX-REQ has this function in addition to basically having LOC capability and frequency flattening.

Hope this helps!

[chief_wiggum]

Yes. Wiggum, the crossovers that come with component systems only filter the frequencies that go to those particular speakers. Think of it as a closed system that all works together for those speakers only.

An external crossover (there are multiple varieties) acts on the WHOLE system, so it will direct frequencies above xx# (xx = frequency you set it at) to the appropriate speakers; this is HP (high pass filtering). Frequencies set below xx# then go to the sub, which is LP (low pass) filtering. Some people use external crossovers to filter and direct lows, mids, and highs, but component systems already do the work for mids/highs at the speaker level. Even coaxials have small integrated in-line filters to direct frequencies appropriatelly to the woofer/tweeter in the speaker. These in-line crossovers are just of lower quality. Separates also allow different mounting options for better staging. The crossovers that come with these are just much bigger, better quality, and are separate (hence separates).

External crossovers could potentially be part of your HU, amp, or a stand-alone. Some aftermarket HU's offer 3 band or 2 band crossovers. My Alpine, for instance, allows me to HP filter frequencies to my door speakers at different band levels (for instance 80, 100, or 120 Hz). This is provided if someone had a sub, but the amp used did not have a filter, or if you do not want full range signals going to the doors, which is usually preferable if you already have a sub, otherwise you double-up on those frequencies which can cause phase problems (ie. doubling or canceling of like waves). I am using the crossover filters on my amps though. My 4-channel amp has it's crossovers set to HP at approx 100 Hz for the door speakers and then the components filter this to get highs to tweeters, mids to woofer. My monoblock then has it's LP filter set to 100 Hz as well, where only below 100 Hz frequencies goes to the sub. Some people use to use dedicated external crossovers before everything included them, but they are rarely needed today. Basically all your outputs from the amp or HU went there, were filtered, then went to the appropriate speakers. The MTX-REQ has this function in addition to basically having LOC capability and frequency flattening.

Hope this helps!

It does...thanks!

[GoFast]

so does mean tht a component sytem would be a better option than a clean sweep?

[ecniemann]

Would you expect a better result if you just bought components that included a crossover -- like these?

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1086820CS/Infinity-Reference-6820cs.html?tp=106

I'm definitely not savvy when it comes to wiring/installing audio systems like it appears most of you guys are. But, as I understand it, part of the problems is that stock, there is no crossover splitting the signal so that lows go to the sub, highs go to the tweaters and everything else goes to the mids in the door, wouldn't replacing the existing so/so door speakers and tweets with higher quality components AND an included crossover help? Again...I'm speaking outside of my comfort zone on this....

Oh yeah, forgot to mention in my post WHY the Bose sucks. From what I hear, it basically eliminates some frequencies completely via crossovers, attenuates or boosts others, and basically just filters everything very crappily. From what I hear, it does this to compensate for the small and crappy nature of the sub and satellites (door speakers). Same goes for their home systems. They just have good marketing, kind of like Monster (see my link below).

[ecniemann]

so does mean tht a component sytem would be a better option than a clean sweep?

What do you mean by components? Are you talking speakers? If so, I would say no. I think if a Cleansweep could be installed in-line somewhere, the Bose speakers may not sound so bad, although I do not know the frequency response (capability) of the satellite speakers or sub. My guess is a 6 inch woofer/sub (or whatever size it is) will not play very low. I know some people have actually kept the stock speakers, even with amps, and aftermarket sub. Ideally, replacing the speakers and flattening the response is the best bet, but Bose makes it real hard. I don't think the stock HU is too bad. The processing just sucks and the speakers are very cheap, although efficient (ie. play loud and are light). Components should sound good with the stock HU, but the Bose processing is not allowing it to perform to it's potential.

Edit: Forgot the OP has coaxials, but same concept applies. They should sound much better than stock, but the processing is what is ruining the effect right now for Bacarl. The speakers can only reproduce what is sent to them. Both processing and low distortion levels are key to making a speaker sound good. All signals being equal, a good speaker should always sound better than a cheap one, but this differential is much clearer when a nice clean, powerful, non-distorted signal is fed to them.

[ecniemann]

Yeah, if anyone has experience with the Cleansweep that'd be helpful to hear.

Are our door speakers powered by an amp, or just the sub?

Apparently the door speakers are powered by an amp according to this thread.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123741857

Any updates otherwise?

Edit: Ha! After re-reading the 1st page of this thread, the answer was right there from derspi and Design respectively. Do'h!

"In a nutshell, just replacing the stock speakers without additional amplification will not do a whole lot. You might get some audible improvement but TBH, the only real way to get something noticeably better is to ditch the Bose amps & speakers altogether. This is especially true if you want a bit more bass, because without more power, you just won't get more output.

There's also the issue of whether or not the stock Bose system is outputting to 4 ohms. Since most aftermarket speakers are rated for 4 ohm operation, if the Bose amps are outputting to 1 ohm or 2 ohm then you'll run into problems here as well."


"The HU does not send an amplified signal at all, so running speakers directly off the HU would not work. You need to keep the Bose amp or something comparable. I think your idea of getting 2 ohm Kappa components would be fine. It would allow you flexibility to upgrade later. Good luck."

[bacarl]

Ok, bit of a new update.

I talked to the folks at Crutchfield last night. They suggested that the reason my new speakers sound even weaker than the Bose is because the Reference series need a good bit of power to sound good, and the Bose amp just can't cut it. He recommended I get a 4-channel amp capable of 50-75 watts per channel, preferably on the higher end to power the best bass response possible.

This would be just fine, but I'm still confounded by the Bose-processed signal. So the Cleansweep comes back into the picture. I'm convinced that the speakers, amp, and Cleansweep would provide awesome sound, and probably have enough bass for my purposes. The downside is it all costs over 700 bones! That blows. Plus I'm worried that the install for everything might be over my head and end up costing even more with installation.

Meh. Just continuing to be extremely disappointed with the "upgraded" Bose system. Even so, I'm considering selling the References, putting the stock speakers back in, and living with it.

[chief_wiggum]

Dude, that stinks; however on the selfish side, I'm glad you went through this so I didn't have to.

So, if the signal coming out of the HU is good/good enough then it gets dorked up by the Bose amp. So, can you just replace the Bose amp with a better one and skip the clean sweep?

ecniemann -- what say you?

[ecniemann]

Dude, that stinks; however on the selfish side, I'm glad you went through this so I didn't have to.

So, if the signal coming out of the HU is good/good enough then it gets dorked up by the Bose amp. So, can you just replace the Bose amp with a better one and skip the clean sweep?

ecniemann -- what say you?

Honestly, I just don't know. I don't know where the signal is filtered. I wish I had an answer, but I avoided the Bose system for these exact reasons.

Bacarl, did you try removing the baffles first and try some light sound-deadening first like I suggested? Not trying to get you further in debt, but it's worth a try. It sounds like going with an amp is more than you want to do anyway. I would try removing the baffles, etc., and if it still sucks, sell the reference Infinities. Sorry if I mislead ya. I have never been disappointed with aftermarket speakers before, but then again, never had a Bose system to replace. The speakers can only play what is fed to them, so it sucks that the signal is not much better through them. Did you try PM'ing any of the members here that have done this in some of these threads to see what they say. I am by far not an expert on the Bose system. IMO, it is needlessly complicated.

[bacarl]

Haha, no problem wiggum, that's what we're all here for - to share experiences and help each other out. I've certainly used my share of info from others' experiences.

The HU processes the signal. The amp may affect it as well, but Crutchfield told me it's kind of hit/miss as to whether a factory amp adds processing or not. In my perfect and expensive world, the HU would stay (to look pretty), and send its signal to the Cleansweep. There it's processed back to a flat signal and sent to a more powerful aftermarket amp that we know adds no signal processing of its own. Then the speakers are fed a strong, flat signal, which they turn into good sound because they're of reasonable quality.

ecniemann, I haven't removed the baffles yet. I was going to the other day, but decided I'd call Crutchfield and get their opinion before I went to the trouble. That's when they told me that the speakers might just be underpowered. I'll probably still try pulling them out and see if/how the sound changes.

Going with an amp would be ok with me. Esp if it fit right under the seat out of the way. I posted in a thread yesterday by a guy who made it sound like replacing only his amp had improved the sound. If he confirms this I might try an amp. The installation is somewhat of a concern, but the bigger problem is cost. $700 is just too much for me to spend on audio IMO.

[meicalnissyen]

The only thing I have to add is the wife's Maxima has a BOSE system and it's a total POS. You can't upgrade any part of it and the only way to improve it is to dump the whole works and start over. This has given me a bad opinion regarding BOSE car stereo in general and the stuff I'm reading here isn't improving that opinion.

IMO my virtually brand new MS3 Bose setup is OK but not impressive by any stretch. I really don't care though. I'm old ( compared to most of you ) and I listen to NPR most of the day during my 15 minute commute.
me to, NPR, Slayer and Rush

[bacarl]

Thanks for your contribution.

[detonnation]

Bose aka Blose... Piercingly brittle highs no mids and some bass. Thats been my experience with Blose. I got a Sport, with no Bose, so I had an installer put in Pioneer PRS-720 6.5s, crossover tweeter up front, 6.5s in the back, Pioneer 12" sub, and a couple amps( 600w GM-D8400M sub amp, 4x60 GM-6400F and I had a Pioneer head unit from my old car. Im not a Pioneer fanboy, though it looks like it:) I just had no clue, except that I really liked the front components (720s). They did a pretty good install, put the crossovers in the door rests and broke some clips, but beside that they did a fine job. Now I can go and upgrade the individual pieces myself.
Stereo installing is the dark science, cuz you never know if they are gonna mess yr sht up!
Mike

[ecniemann]

Bose aka Blose... Piercingly brittle highs no mids and some bass. Thats been my experience with Blose. I got a Sport, with no Bose, so I had an installer put in Pioneer PRS-720 6.5s, crossover tweeter up front, 6.5s in the back, Pioneer 12" sub, and a couple amps( 600w GM-D8400M sub amp, 4x60 GM-6400F and I had a Pioneer head unit from my old car. Im not a Pioneer fanboy, though it looks like it:) I just had no clue, except that I really liked the front components (720s). They did a pretty good install, put the crossovers in the door rests and broke some clips, but beside that they did a fine job. Now I can go and upgrade the individual pieces myself.
Stereo installing is the dark science, cuz you never know if they are gonna mess yr sht up!
Mike

Yep. That's why I do it myself....can't stand people fucking my stuff up.

[detonnation]

Yep. That's why I do it myself....can't stand people fucking my stuff up.
If I did it it would be me f*n everything up. heh. Im not totally incapable, but mostly.. lol
M

[meicalnissyen]

The Bose puts out 2 ohms, so you do need to be very careful which speakers you buy. Over time, 4 ohm speakers will eventually blow. .

false

[bacarl]

^^^Another great post!!! A little information to back up whatever it is you might mean by that would be helpful.



On another subject, I put the Bose speakers back in recently. I got fed up with the super-weak sound with the Infinities, and I learned a few more things.

The Bose signal to the door speakers is designed for the factory Bose speaker (obviously). Just like an OEM damper is tuned very specifically for a certain spring/bar/tire combination. Changing a bar or tire can throw off the balance of the car. Likewise, if you change a speaker, the existing signal will not be optimized for the new speaker and it won't perform to its potential. This goes beyond signal processing and gets into response frequencies and capabilities of the aftermarket speaker, and other things that are over my head. This is most likely another reason that the Infinities don't sound right.

I also learned some unfortunate stuff about the CleanSweep from Crutchfield. The Bose signal is processed per volume, so that as you crank it up, the processing changes so the speakers aren't overwhelmed by loud bass, etc. The CleanSweep processes the Bose signal properly at one specific volume. If you change the volume, the CleanSweep signal processing parameters are no longer correct. To avoid this, the HU must be kept at the same volume all the time and the CleanSweep comes with a little knob you can put some place to change your volume. This means an obnoxious knob installed somewhere on the dash, and losing the redundant steering wheel volume, which I use daily. This makes the CS much less appealing to me.

After I re-installed the Bose speakers, I was really surprised by how much better they sounded than I remembered. The sound was fine and the bass was downright powerful. I thought maybe I had gotten used to how weak the Infinities sounded, but I don't think I would have had a problem in the first place if they always sounded like that. But, over the next few days it seems like they got bad again... The bass is weak and mids are realllly loud and buzzy. This seems even worse than I remember, now. A song with a powerful bass guitar is super annoying to listen to. Might the sound have actually changed or is this my imagination?? I might take the doors apart yet again and make sure everything looks right back there.

Basically, I've found that fixing the audio would be a big, big job (unless you replace the HU, then it's easy, but you lose your clean center stack and trip computer stuff). It requires speakers, amps, probably a sub, and all the necessary wiring, LOCs, GLIs, HPFs, and on and on.

[Design]

Sorry to hear about your woes. I've personally listened to an 08.5 Standard 3 GT with just a speaker upgrade and some sound deadening. Next to my 09 MS3 it sounded much, much cleaner - expecially from the tweeters. The owner ran the included external crossovers for the front component/tweeter combo, and installed them behind the front door arm rest. He did not use foam baffles as you did in your installation. Could account for the loss of bass you're experiencing.

If you're still not satisfied, my recommendation would be to replace the amp next. The Bose signal processor is actually located within the amp assembly - not the HU. The HU is independently sourced and built by Clarion (at least the 08.5/09s). Here's a quick summary from Bose (see #5):
http://www.bose.eu/EU/en/Images/Syst_Mazda3_facelift_e_150_tcm42-8159.pdf

The HU should send out a clean, non-amplified signal that can be converted to a line level input for an aftermarket amp. Many believe the an REQ/Cleansweep is not needed because the signal is already line level. If you're considering an amp replacement, maybe look at these first?
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_connections_detail.php?cat_id=5

[ataraxia]

The 2 ohm Bose amp won't deliver as much power to those 4 ohm speakers as it would to 2 ohm speakers. It won't blow the speakers unless, like in any other situation, you turn the volume up and the distorted signal blows them. The overall sound quality loss is minimal (most people can't hear it) when running a 2 ohm amp with 4 ohm speakers.

I have a Maxima with Bose...or it had Bose. It's now got an Alpine CDA 9853, with Infinity Reference components and a 12" JL Audio sub. The separates are powered by a 4 channel JL amp, the 12" is powered by a mono JL amp. I couldn't get the Bose to work with anything else and sound decent in the Maxima so I took it all out.

I have a MS3 GT with Bose...and at the end of the month, it'll be gone as well. I don't know if this Bose is any more 'tweakable' than the one in the Maxima but it's not really worth the hassle IMO.

If you find some good 2 ohm speakers and keep the stock Bose, it should sound better than the stock speakers...but I'm guessing without knowing the Bose system better. 90% of the time you can get better sound simply by replacing the speakers with higher quality aftermarket speakers...check the specifications of the replacement speakers to make sure they'll handle the signal output of the Bose processor.

[bacarl]

Design,
Thanks for all your help. I think the crossovers might be the key in the 08.5 MZ3 GT you mentioned... 6262MS3 and Breezy have threads about using extra crossovers on the stock door speakers and cleaning things up a lot. I may try that if I can get a little better understanding of crossovers themselves. Also thanks for the amp info, that's looking like a pretty likely next step for me too.

ataraxia,
The Reference speakers I installed are 2ohm speakers. I blame the Bose signal processing and the simple fact that the amp and the References aren't designed/spec'd to work together for the poor sound I got.

[bacarl]

Well if I'm looking at amps, I'll have to move my questions away from speakers.

Obviously I will need one reasonably powerful 4-channel amp, say ~70 watts rms per channel. Then I'll need four of Design's snazzy RCA/speaker plugs. I'm assuming those are quite short, so I'll need some speaker wire to run out to the corners to connect to my Reference 2-ways.

Now, what about the stock tweeters, do they have to go away? Can I use a crossover to feed them from the same channel that's feeding the door speaker? I see now why I should have gotten component speakers!


RCA to Speaker Wire Plugs allow high level speaker outputs to be connected via RCA plugs. Ideal for use with amplifiers that have high level input capability but no speaker wire input connections
Maybe someone can talk me through all these input/outputs to/from the amp. Does low level = low power and high level = high power (amplified)?


One other thing: how might the sub/amp be affected by changing the 4-channel? Is it safe to assume the inputs to the two amps from the HU are seperate?

[Design]

I wasn't aware you weren't running upgraded tweeters. That in itself will make a significant difference IMO. Many members believe the stock front door speakers/tweeters are wired in parallel to lower impedance to 2 ohms, which could also account for the interesting results you're getting. Purchasing a component set and rewiring your door with the included hi/mid pass crossover would probably correct this issue. It would also allow for an easy upgrade if you plan to run an aftermarket amp.

LOCs such as the Cleansweep and REQ are designed to take a dirty, amplified signal and convert it to a clean, un-amplified (low level) source signal. Since most factory HU's amplify the signal internally, the LOC can be placed anywhere in between the HU and speakers. Bose is different in that the factory HU puts out a clean, low level source signal that connects to an external amplifier (and signal processor). This is similar to aftermarket HU's that use RCA wires to connect to an external EQ and amplifier. Tapping the pre-amp wires and converting them to RCA should be all you need. You can use a LOC, but it's a bit of an overkill since you are already working with a clean, low level signal.

So if you plan to replace the amp, you may consider a noise filter to isolate any unwanted interference (some have complained of noise when tapping into the Bose amp inputs). About $150-200 cheaper than doing a full LOC, yet allows you the flexibility of upgrading to one if you're dissatisfied with the results. Using a compact aftermarket amp under the driver's seat would allow you to take advantage of the input/output wiring that's already there. I think all you would need is to run a power wire from the battery.

There is a lot of media available on this (PM me if you want more). Good luck.

[bacarl]

I wasn't aware you weren't running upgraded tweeters. That in itself will make a significant difference IMO. Many members believe the stock front door speakers/tweeters are wired in parallel to lower impedance to 2 ohms, which could also account for the interesting results you're getting. Purchasing a component set and rewiring your door with the included hi/mid pass crossover would probably correct this issue.
This is actually exactly what Breezy and 6262MS3 did. They purchased some inexpensive aftermarket tweeters and installed them with in-series capacitors/crossovers in the doors. 626 did just the fronts and Breezy also added crossovers to the rears. This prevented the woofers from trying to play too broad a frequency range, which cleaned up the distorted mids that we all hear. The new tweeters could take up some of the slack on the high end and the subwoofer became audible for the lows. Definitely sounds worth trying because it's very inexpensice and is reportedly effective.

[bacarl]

Bringin this thread back!

I did 626's crossover mod (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123701496) over the weekend and am pleased with the results. I soldered everything up permanently so I think I'll probably just leave the caps/coils in there and be happy.

Long story short, I think I no longer need the Infinities. If I ever put aftermarket speakers in, I believe components are better suited.

So, are these boards a good place to sell the Infinities? Obviously they're not very well suited to the MS3 Bose system. Are you guys familiar with audio boards where they might sell?

[ecniemann]

Bringin this thread back!

I did 626's crossover mod (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123701496) over the weekend and am pleased with the results. I soldered everything up permanently so I think I'll probably just leave the caps/coils in there and be happy.

Long story short, I think I no longer need the Infinities. If I ever put aftermarket speakers in, I believe components are better suited.

So, are these boards a good place to sell the Infinities? Obviously they're not very well suited to the MS3 Bose system. Are you guys familiar with audio boards where they might sell?


Good to hear. You could try here, but also maybe do Craigslist and/or e-bay. I personally hate e-bay, but Craigslist might be good on the cheap. AV forums and here are free as well. Just be careful of swindlers, LOL!

[meicalnissyen]

^^^Another great post!!! A little information to back up whatever it is you might mean by that would be helpful.





Ohms Law

[bacarl]

Dude, Design said "The Bose puts out 2 ohms, so you do need to be very careful which speakers you buy. Over time, 4 ohm speakers will eventually blow."

And you said "false."

As far as I know, neither portion of his statement is false. How does "Ohm's Law" help explain anything? Use your words....

[JeffEmbracedDC]

Hey, guys. So I just installed a 3-way set of CDT Eurosport speakers in my front doors and I'm having some MAJOR sound quality issues.. Really looking for some insight. More details here - http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123753169

I'd appreciate you guys taking a look and letting me know what you think. Thanks, guys.

-Jeff

[bacarl]

Welp, Infinities are for sale:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123753426

[meicalnissyen]

Dude, Design said "The Bose puts out 2 ohms, so you do need to be very careful which speakers you buy. Over time, 4 ohm speakers will eventually blow."

And you said "false."

As far as I know, neither portion of his statement is false. How does "Ohm's Law" help explain anything? Use your words....

Sigh,
amplifiers don't "put out ohms"

they put out current
speakers have a certain amount of resistance, measured in ohms

When amplifiers are attached to speakers with less resistance than they were designed for they may flow more current than they can handle

the bose amp is designed to work with a 2 ohm speaker
if a 4 ohm speaker is used, the amp will flow less current, run cooler, last longer

and produce a quieter audio experience

speakers "Blow" when they see more current than they can handle, overheat the motor assy, and short internally.

the bose amp might be able to do that to a cheep pair of computer desktop speakers, bridged

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

Sigh,
amplifiers don't "put out ohms"

they put out current
speakers have a certain amount of resistance, measured in ohms

When amplifiers are attached to speakers with less resistance than they were designed for they may flow more current than they can handle

the bose amp is designed to work with a 2 ohm speaker
if a 4 ohm speaker is used, the amp will flow less current, run cooler, last longer

and produce a quieter audio experience

speakers "Blow" when they see more current than they can handle, overheat the motor assy, and short internally.

the bose amp might be able to do that to a cheep pair of computer desktop speakers, bridged


You are forgetting something. More damage is done to speakers by pushing underpowered amps than by ones that are too strong. Especially when the amp is a piece of crap: you push the amp hard and it clips, which sends a spike through the speaker. Presto, new paperweight, or doorstop, depending.

[UnZipHer15]

with your stock stereo your maybe pushing 15 watts continuous to each individual speaker (MAYBE) if your looking for better sound quality ditch the bose and look up a company called FOCAL .... http://www.focal-america.com/

they are amazing speakers that come with a lifetime warranty and don't require an amp to produce clean crisp sound.

[Design]

with your stock stereo your maybe pushing 15 watts continuous to each individual speaker (MAYBE) if your looking for better sound quality ditch the bose and look up a company called FOCAL .... http://www.focal-america.com/

they are amazing speakers that come with a lifetime warranty and don't require an amp to produce clean crisp sound.

Most would agree that the real issue is the signal processor. It's designed to cut out high and low frequencies to promote longer speaker life. Aftermarket speakers may provide a marginal improvement, but not as much as replacing the amp/processor alone.

My thought is that if you're going to replace something, save your money and do it all at once. RCA converter, amp, and front components will sound infinitely better than just one or the other.

[meicalnissyen]

You are forgetting something. More damage is done to speakers by pushing underpowered amps than by ones that are too strong. Especially when the amp is a piece of crap: you push the amp hard and it clips, which sends a spike through the speaker. Presto, new paperweight, or doorstop, depending.

True, clipping is quite damaging

[meicalnissyen]

Most would agree that the real issue is the signal processor. It's designed to cut out high and low frequencies to promote longer speaker life. Aftermarket speakers may provide a marginal improvement, but not as much as replacing the amp/processor alone.

My thought is that if you're going to replace something, save your money and do it all at once. RCA converter, amp, and front components will sound infinitely better than just one or the other.
Oh, so true and if you care to, you can save the LOC and use the line level inputs from the head