Can't Decide... ETS TMIC or COBB FMIC?

[speed3driver]

I'm looking into getting an upgraded intercooler but don't know if i should go Top or Front. I live in Michigan and am plowing snow half the year.. could that damage a FMIC?

Let me know what you guys would do if you had my car. My mods or listed below(add turbo inlet, engine mount, and boost tubes to the list) It would be amazing to see some number differences between the two intercoolers as well.. maybe HP gains

Thanks!

[Circle9]

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123731875

You should find most of the info you seek in this thread

[coyfish]

At peak performance the gains of a FMIC will be minimal over a TMIC.

the main issue that disuades most people from FMIC is warranty / installation/ and of course price. I decided against a FMIC because I didn't want to have to worry about anything if I needed to visit the dealer.

FMIC is better no doubt so if you have the money / time to install or remove than I say go for it. You live in michigan which as you said is cold 1/2 the year. Heat soak wont be a huge deal like it would be for me in florida. Thats another plus for the TMIC.

hope that helps

[UHATEIT]

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123731875

You should find most of the info you seek in this thread

beat me to it, i was going to post the same thread. It's recent. OP needs to do a search

[Speed3Rookie]

Go FMIC...fuck warranty...you only have it until you need to use it.

[SwampAss]

I've done FMICs on cars that didn't originally have them. After my fun of doing those, I opted for a TMIC.

FMICs are sometimes a pain. Getting a perfect seal isn't nearly as easy as it is with a TMIC. While I haven't driven an MS3 with an FMIC, in previous cars, I noticed a small amount of boost loss with the additional plumbing. When I installed my TMIC from ETS on the MS3, I actually saw a slight increase in boost pressure. I suspect that is from a better flowing design. I have no regrets with my TMIC. In fact, I bought one, sold it, missed it, and bought a second.

[SubieKiller3]

I've done FMICs on cars that didn't originally have them. After my fun of doing those, I opted for a TMIC.

FMICs are sometimes a pain. Getting a perfect seal isn't nearly as easy as it is with a TMIC. While I haven't driven an MS3 with an FMIC, in previous cars, I noticed a small amount of boost loss with the additional plumbing. When I installed my TMIC from ETS on the MS3, I actually saw a slight increase in boost pressure. I suspect that is from a better flowing design. I have no regrets with my TMIC. In fact, I bought one, sold it, missed it, and bought a second.

damn, you got me sold on one!

[steven88]

I'm looking into getting an upgraded intercooler but don't know if i should go Top or Front. I live in Michigan and am plowing snow half the year.. could that damage a FMIC?

Let me know what you guys would do if you had my car. My mods or listed below(add turbo inlet, engine mount, and boost tubes to the list) It would be amazing to see some number differences between the two intercoolers as well.. maybe HP gains

Thanks!

what are your goals? if you plan to run at the drag strip or auto cross/circuit....go FMIC...waiting in line will definitely take a toll on performance with the TMIC....

if you just want to have fun, go TMIC...yes you will lose hp once you are stopped for a good period of time...but the price to hp ratio is incredible....installation is much easier as well

[SwampAss]

The TMIC on this car doesn't heat soak badly at all. Once up to about 30-35mph, it's pretty much recouped from any additional heat from being on top of the engine. Heat soak = 1.8t VW with stock SMIC. You don't know heat soak til you've driven one of those in traffic.

[mazdaspeedster3]

Where in Michigan are you? Check out the Michigan section, we are pretty active.

[ymic]

+3 for FMIC. My friends and I have decided that DISI actually stands for Direct Injection Shitty Intercooler

[wisniaPl]

i was going with tmic but got good deal on txs fmic and could be more satisfied i dont spike to 21 psi like with stock tmic just spike 19 and stay at 17,5-18 psi...for dd its easier to stay out of boost and forge bpv sound so much nicer no more mario coin sound....however instalation was a pian in the ass...

[DaleNixon]

Yo swamps, what TMIC are you running? ETS? What tubing size? And would I need a tune if I got one? Thanks broham!

[Abilor]

I would very much like to know about the ETS as well. Whatever DaleNixon gets, I'll get the other one... ;)

[Abilor]

And what about the TMIC from those other guys? What's the difference bw that and the ETS? The cobb?

[coyfish]

I havent seen a COBB TMIC. The only brands are SU and ETS. Well and autoexe but those are crazy expensive.

I got the SU because I know the guys personally and I got it for the same price as the ETS. Honestly though both the ETS and SU will perform the same. The SU just has "cleaner" welds.

No you dont need a tune for an intercooler. Look at the mods in my sig . . . I have no tune and my car runs fine. Like wisnia pointed out I am occasionally spiking a bit high though so as long as your paying attention to ur boost gauge you will be fine.

Seems like everyone has their mind set on the TMIC. ITs really a simple decision. If you have the money and the time to spend making sure everything seals up and installing / removing it than go for it. The first time you install it it may take you 5 hours but you get better at it. Friend of mine can install his in 1 hour !.

[speed3driver]

My main goals with this car are basically driving it for fun and picking up street races here and there. I might take it to the track once or twice a year.

I think i'm defiantly going with the ETS 3.5 TMIC. Thanks everyone for you input :)

[MM BOOST]

All of you guys have helped me with my decision as well, thanks guys. Gonna pick up ETS 3.5 TMIC in mirror polished too! Oh and the polished/stainless cold pipe from Street Unit. Bling Blang mofuckas. :)

[speed3driver]

Where in Michigan are you? Check out the Michigan section, we are pretty active.

Im near Grand Rapids..

[SwampAss]

I have the ETS TMIC 3.25. I don't know the tube size. I'll lie and say 8 inches knowing full well it's more like 3.

[Circle9]

How think is the core of the SU TMIC? I rather go for better quality if it has the same core size as the ETS.

[DaleNixon]

I have the ETS TMIC 3.25. I don't know the tube size. I'll lie and say 8 inches knowing full well it's more like 3.

I'm not even sure what tube size means :\

What's the difference between, say, a 3.25 and a 3.5?

[coyfish]

The SU is 3.25 core size. The finish quality of the SU is definately superior to the ETS. Thats worth the extra 40 bucks imo.

Nixon there are 2 core sizes for the ETS. The 3.5 is more expensive because its a bigger core. There is no point in getting the bigger core unless you plan on upgrading your turbo. Dyno results have proven that. Also the 3.5 is so big it has a tendency to bang into the firewall on hard shifts.

[DaleNixon]

Thanks coyfish! I'll be getting a 3.25 then!

[Abilor]

But will you go SU or ETS?

[DaleNixon]

That's a good question. I've got months to think about it!

[speed3driver]

So the 3.5 is a bad idea? Dyno shows there's no power increase from 3.25 to 3.5?

[UHATEIT]

Heat soak = 1.8t VW with stock SMIC. You don't know heat soak til you've driven one of those in traffic.
I see that all the time on my wife's Jetta 1.8T that thing sucks ass on a hot summer day or driving in traffic stop and go.



The SU is 3.25 core size. The finish quality of the SU is definately superior to the ETS. Thats worth the extra 40 bucks imo.

Nixon there are 2 core sizes for the ETS. The 3.5 is more expensive because its a bigger core. There is no point in getting the bigger core unless you plan on upgrading your turbo. Dyno results have proven that. Also the 3.5 is so big it has a tendency to bang into the firewall on hard shifts.


A lot of people keep talking about the 3.5 core hitting the firewall, I'm not sure where people are getting that it hits the "firewall" The 3.25 and the 3.5 are the same size around and the shroud is the same. It's the thickness of the core thats different. So since the shroud side is the same they would be equally as likely to hit the firewall if that even was the case. Since it's the thickness of the 3.5 thats thicker, its actually hitting the inside of the ram air/hood ducting since its thicker. So when people say the 3.5 is hitting anything its not the firewall, it's the inside of the hood that it's hitting. And that will happen under a hard shift, an extensive wheel hop, and can generally be solved by having an upgraded motor mount. And who hasn't upgraded their mm by now? Since nearly everyone on this forum with a speed3 has upgraded their mm they should not have that problem.

Here is my ETS for visual aspect. I will say it is close to the windshield cowl/wiper area but certainly far enough away even with some minor rocking of the engine:
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2351/4221/30877110111_medium.jpghttp://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2351/4221/30877110112_medium.jpg

When I mounted mine on there, the underside of the tmic was touching the electricals and covers for the spark plugs and last thing I wanted was for the tmic to heat up under there adn melt wires. So I put a few washers on each stem of the mounting screws for the ETS (there are 3 mounting points and I put 3 washers on each one) which spaced the ETS enough up not to touch the wiring, BUT in turn that made it closer to the inside of the ram air ducting and I was worried about it hitting. But I have the SU MM and it holds the motor in nicely enough not to allow it to rock and hit the inside of the hood ducting.

Pair the ETS up with a good MM and you will certainly not be dissappointed. I got my SU MM used for $65 and my ETS used pikced up locally for $350

[Circle9]

Looks nice enough with out any of the pricey finishes SU has to offer. I do like the SU TMIC better though, just a little nicer.

[speed3driver]

Is the SU TMIC 3.25 thickness? or 3.5?

[speed3driver]

UHATEIT... would you recommend the AWR engine mount or the SU mount.. whats the difference?

[UHATEIT]

UHATEIT... would you recommend the AWR engine mount or the SU mount.. whats the difference?

I'm not sure about the AWR and how well that one is, I always "heard" the AWR is stiffer, sort of like the TRZ.

I can say a local speed3 owner friend of mine (phillyb) let me drive his speed3 with the TRZ dogbone and it vibrated too much for my hand, I just didnt like it, BUT that thing was stiff and shifting was well planted and no rocking around of the engine at all, just didnt like the vibrations on the shifter itself. I would recommend it for the fact that it really works well at what the MM is supposed to do, but the vibrations on my hand were too much for my tastes, I even turned on the AC and by god it was way too vibey for me.

I test drove another friend's speed3 (logik816) who had the SU MM and I was in heaven. I made sure to turn on the AC while driving it around to make sure nothing changed (only a faint hint of any vibe with AC). It planted the wheels, I got no wheelhop, it drove like butter. It keeps the engine in place without rocking, and does what you want from your upgraded MM, but did not give the vibes of the TRZ by any means. Certainly with a car as new as this you dont want it to drive/feel like a 92 honda civic all modded up. You srtill want some comfortable feeling out of a car thats brand new (or less than 2 years old), and for this being my daily driver in LA traffic I can't afford to lose the conforts of shifting all the time. I can say that it satisfies me for comfortable driving and shifting, with minimal vibes if any at all. I notices only a slight hum with AC on that is not even noticeable at all and only mentioning it so you dont think the SU MM is completely quiet and vibe free, but the vibes are almost not even there.

it's up to you, since I dont know about the AWR at all to say how well it is. The SU MM is perfect, hense the fact you will almost never see them for sale in the Marketplace section since people dont want to get rid of them. I upgraded from the Corksport inserts (which were amazing for $25), and they do not vibe at all, but they were a tad soft and resulted in some engine rocking at low rpm shifting (gear shifts of 1 to 2, and 2 to 3 at lower rpm like from a stop light) tho they feel perfect in the 4, 5, and 6 gear shifting range.

[DaleNixon]

I might go for the SU 3 mount package. I really dug the TRZ rear mount/trans mount combo, but I'm not sure if I want my brand new car to get rattled to pieces (sorry Abilor :()

Are the SU mounts proven reliable and safe? And do they eliminate engine lash?

[Abilor]

Actually, after only a 100 miles or so, my TRZ trans vibes have calmed down a lot. See for yourself soon...

[speed3driver]

Well thanks for the info.. i'll proly shoot for the SU mount now :)

[MM BOOST]

Put my trz dogbone on right after christmas and it was pretty vibey after first installing, but since the vibes have calmed down ALOTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. Its so much smoother and I can definately tell a difference in the car. Every now and then if you like take off in 2nd gear or something of the sort you will get some vibes. I daily drive my car as well.

[DaleNixon]

Where's the TRZ passenger side mount though? I'd hate to put a dogbone in only to stress out the lesser mounts.