horrid ABS in snow...broken?

[rayek]

So I had my first experience in the snow with this car and the ABS scared the living hell out of me, I was coming to a T intersection at 25mph and went to apply the brakes (yes gently of course) and the brake pedal went in maybe a quarter of an inch before the ABS kicked in harder than it has in any vehicle I have ever driven. It kicked in so hard that the car didn't even begin to slow down, the brake pedal was kicking back so hard that it felt like the car was shaking apart, coming through the intersection was a big rig and I was heading straight into its path, I had to yank the e-brake and let the car stall in gear to lock the tires so I could stop. Needless to say that was one of the most frightening moments of my life as the 18 wheeler missed me by inches. The entire way home this kept happening even on main roads where the snow had not accumulated and the asphalt was only a little wet. when I got into my neighborhood which is not treated it was like trying to drive a sled and I missed my driveway twice because the ABS was not allowing the car to even slow down.

I have had many cars, none have even come remotely close to having this kind of problem, I drove my wifes 2003 lancer (worst car ever) into work the next day after an ice storm had passed by and the roads where much worse than the day before and had no problems what so ever getting around, I have never experienced an ABS system as terrible as the MS3 has, I am hoping that there is a problem with the car, because if this is on purpose than this car is a death trap in hard braking situations. Has anyone else had this problem, is my car broken?

[Kain]

Telling us what tires you're rolling on would help. Hopefully you're not driving on the stockers in the snow.

[Moultese]

I have the same problem. I found that the ABS made things a lot worse. I swapped out my stock tires for some High Performance All Seasons and I still get this problem. I slid right through an intersection. I was mashing the brake and it just kept pumping back. My remedy is to basically engine brake and slow down rather than stop.

[zoomdoom]

No you probably just need some winter tires lol. I drove last winter on the stock tires and this was my experience every time it snowed. I would have to turn off the traction control so I could spin just to get going and stopping was always fun too. I got some 16 in steel wheels and winter/ice tires just drove yesterday morning through some unplowed roads without problems (about 8 inches snow/ice). Needless to say I plowed the roads with my front bumper likely saving many people from wrecking (yeah your all welcome) lol. I got mine from tire rack I recomend the general tire artic ice's and whatever generic steel wheels they carry. Everything came to less than 500 bones and your gona make your "summer" tires last longer (also cheaper than hospital/autobody bill).

[rayek]

If the car was sliding I would have never posted, the car is 1 month old and everything is still stock at this point, I understand that the tires will cause sliding and terrible handling in snow, especially with performance dry weather tires, my complaint wasn't that the car was sliding its that the brakes never kicked in at all, once e-brake and gear lockup was engaged the car stopped within 2 feet, the area this happened on had no accumulation, you could see the asphalt completely bare, my wifes Lancer has almost bald tires becuase it never gets driven (maybe twice a year) and it was sliding but the brakes where engaging, the ABS on that car was kicking in but still letting the car stop. If the brakes where engaging just very lightly and the car was slowing down I would have passed this off as simply a tire issue, get snows and quit complaining, the problem is that at 25mph you can tell if the brakes are slowing the car down any at all and it just wasn't happening, if it where a tire issue the car would have slid substantially more than 2 feet when they where locked up, I ran my 07 cobalt ss/sc and my 04 srt-4 both on slicks in the snow (I love sliding in snow and ice) and while the ABS gets harder I have never had them completely prevent braking before.

[wedginator]

I find this situation similar in my Mazda 5 also. The stopping distance it takes is dangerously long. I got fed up and pulled the abs pump fuse out. It saved my ass yesterday in the snow. If I hadn't pulled the fuse, i would have ran into an car making a sudden left turn.

[rayek]

Well I am ordering some snow tires today after I check if my Cavalier steelies will fit over the calipers, the main concern I have is the extent to which the cars computer kicks in the ABS, I have never been a fan of performance cars that have so much computer interference but what are you gonna do? Hopefully that will take care of it.

[Kain]

Don't recall if disabling DSC also cuts ABS. Might want to search on that.

[FrequentFlyer]

Don't knock the ABS system when you're driving on SUMMER high performance tires in the winter time. The ABS system is doing its job. It obviously sensed you losing traction and wanted to do something about it. Maybe it is a sensitive system, but the MS3 is a very over-braked car. It's got big brakes and will stop on a dime. I noticed when I first got my MS3 how sensitive these brakes are. I'm used to it of course now, but I remember just tapping the brakes in my test drive and feeling like we were going to go through the windshield. It's a different car than what you've had in the past. The moral of the story is, if you live somewhere that gets below 40-45 degrees F for long periods of time and normally gets freezing precipitation, you should not be driving on the stock Potenza's. Do yourself a favor and get a winter setup (which it seems like you're doing from what I read above).

[Gmac03]

I have Xice tires, and I always disable the DSC/TC crap. If you don't you're screwed.

Gmac

[rayek]

Well considering the fact that I have not had a car without ABS since I was in high school (good ol' 89 ford escort gt) and every car I have owned since has had over 280hp with big brake setups I in fact can knock the far too over-sensitive MS3 ABS system, it seems to have gotten so safe it has crossed back into dangerous, and while the MS3 does have a very nice brake setup it certainly doesn't have the best brakes of any car I have owned, stock for stock maybe but this month of ownership marks the longest I have ever had a car at stock (bidding my time till the whole engine thing is figured out).
I appreciate the tips, but this is not my first car and it is not my fastest car either, I will try new tires and if that fixes it great, I will post it here as being my own stupid fault but I just dont think that is the issue since I have driven through much worse conditions with much worse tires, the blizzard of '96 here in northern VA while gunning around on slicks was an...eventfull time, but even in those conditions the worse problem was with the ABS not being able to stop wheel lock-up, this is a case of the ABS working TOO good, not allowing braking at all to prevent tire slip.
It is kind of like killing a kitten so it can't grow up to get feline leukemia, sure it works but its not good.

[rayek]

OK so I looked into the DSC and that does not cut the ABS but cutting DSC and TC does, in fact it looks like its the TC system that adds more power to the ABS system causing this problem, hopefully there will still be some ice on my road when I get home so I can test this out.

[Sport6]

Your cavalier had 280hp in it?

[Moultese]

Changing the tires doesn't help the ABS problem. I changed out my tires and still have the same problem.

[LukeP]

I posted about something like this some time ago when the ESC system went apeshit on me and people thought I was driving wrong.

I have noticed a big improvement with blizzaks on but I still turn it off to keep the car in control. Turning DSC off DOES NOT TURN OFF ABS (tested on slick ice conditions). You're stuck with it I'm afraid.

Look for a way out and steer towards it. Thats about all you can do. And get the stickiest tires possible - pulling your ABS fuse is a good idea, I never thought of that.

[mazdaspeed32007]

Your cavalier had 280hp in it?

lol

[rayek]

Your cavalier had 280hp in it?

OK got me there, the Cavalier has sat in my driveway for 6 years getting nothing but upkeep maintenance, I don't even think about it in term of cars I have because it is mostly around because I cannot bring myself to get rid of it.

[Fenrir]

Get snow tires, don't let this happen to you:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123728857

:\

[chodaboy1980]

After I put a set of blizzaks on my stock wheels the overly sensitive ABS is 90% fixed. I have found that with a good set of tires this is a great car in the snow. The gearing and great torque down low make for really good engine braking and the power works well to pull you out of slides.

[MikeHTally]

To quote Brock Yates (I think), "ABS just makes you slide through the intersection straight instead of sideways."

[03.5-dc-speed]

still winter
still got the summer tires
still no problem.

if its bad i just hit the DSC button and seems to help be get a bit of grip due to it no cutting the power under 3k rpms.

[pdqgp]

If the car was sliding I would have never posted, the car is 1 month old and everything is still stock at this point, I understand that the tires will cause sliding and terrible handling in snow, especially with performance dry weather tires,

it's not just handling, but with the stock tires, you won't stop...the ABS is doing what it is meant to do...keep the wheels rolling while slowing vs locking up and having no control. The stock tires will turn so hard in freezing temps that you will litterally thump along until they warm up if you park it overnight outside in cold weather. They can't grip at all and thus will not give you any stopping power. The Stability system is out the door too as it using braking power.

my complaint wasn't that the car was sliding its that the brakes never kicked in at all, once e-brake and gear lockup was engaged the car stopped within 2 feet,

sure, you manually locked up the rear brakes to plow forward and create friciton and causing the car to stall helped too.


the area this happened on had no accumulation, you could see the asphalt completely bare,

Black ice perhaps? Sounds exactly like what happens on frozen roads. Road doesn't have to be shiny to have black ice present.

if it where a tire issue the car would have slid substantially more than 2 feet when they where locked up,

not necessarily. Locking up the tires created heat and friction between the road and the tire compound. ABS doesn't do that and isn't meant to. It's meant to maintain steering control. Personally I've found threshold braking better than stomping on the brakes and engaging ABS but that's just me. I hardly ever have ABS to kick in and we just got blasted with ice and 8" of snow. Zero issues with starting or stopping........the difference......LM-25's. /story.

I ran my 07 cobalt ss/sc and my 04 srt-4 both on slicks in the snow (I love sliding in snow and ice) and while the ABS gets harder I have never had them completely prevent braking before.

Can't comment on such a practice.

[Mr. 4500 RPM]

lol this thread is stupid

[zoomdoom]

(stupid)

[Olestra]

(headshake
You claim to know alot about cars but you should really read about tire compounds and how ABS works.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/anti-lock-brake.htm

Fantastic website to learn the basics.

You might think I'm being a dick but I'm serious. Time for a wake up call before you get T-boned by an 18 wheeler.

[john blutarski]

I'm sorry but you can't blame the ABS system when you're driving in snow on SUMMER TIRES. These tires are not designed for snow or cold weather... period.

[AutoEuphoria]

I'm sorry but you can't blame the ABS system when you're driving in snow on SUMMER TIRES. These tires are not designed for snow or cold weather... period.


Exactly. Be glad it did kick in or you'd still be sliding.

[xtrememps]

+1 Thank you for saving me the effort of typing all that.

it's not just handling, but with the stock tires, you won't stop...the ABS is doing what it is meant to do...keep the wheels rolling while slowing vs locking up and having no control. The stock tires will turn so hard in freezing temps that you will litterally thump along until they warm up if you park it overnight outside in cold weather. They can't grip at all and thus will not give you any stopping power. The Stability system is out the door too as it using braking power.



sure, you manually locked up the rear brakes to plow forward and create friciton and causing the car to stall helped too.



Black ice perhaps? Sounds exactly like what happens on frozen roads. Road doesn't have to be shiny to have black ice present.



not necessarily. Locking up the tires created heat and friction between the road and the tire compound. ABS doesn't do that and isn't meant to. It's meant to maintain steering control. Personally I've found threshold braking better than stomping on the brakes and engaging ABS but that's just me. I hardly ever have ABS to kick in and we just got blasted with ice and 8" of snow. Zero issues with starting or stopping........the difference......LM-25's. /story.



Can't comment on such a practice.

[Mr. 4500 RPM]

(stupid)

and no you cannot state this when the OP is running SUMMER PERFORMANCE tires in winter and icey conditions. He is trying to blame the car for his mistake in not buying proper tires for the conditions he is driving in. THIS TYPE OF THREAD HAPPENS ALL THE TIME and is just plain dumb. You do not buy a performance based car and expect it to run year round in many different conditions running performance tires. He should bare min have all seasons depending on his location. BUT as posted time and time again he needs winters. So the joke is on you and I am not stupid, I was right in my post and your just a moron trying to get a post count.