Intercooler upgrade...what offers the best balance?

[AutoEuphoria]

Looking into intercooler upgrades...I'm looking for a unit that provides a good upgrade in cooling over the stock unit, but does not see a substantial amount of pressure drop. So, is an upgraded TMIC the way to go?

[acidbbg]

Looking into intercooler upgrades...I'm looking for a unit that provides a good upgrade in cooling over the stock unit, but does not see a substantial amount of pressure drop. So, is an upgraded TMIC the way to go?

I would def suggest the ETS or SU TMIC.

Easy for dealer visits and easy on the install.

If you plan on going big power..I would def suggest going with a FMIC.

-C

[AutoEuphoria]

Yeah, I don't LOL. Intercooler, suspension, and wheels are the only three major things left on my list.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[STRICK-]

definitly a top mount IMO....

[Circle9]

TMIC to keep the sleeper look!

[AutoEuphoria]

Yeah, I think I'm going to go with a TMIC. That was my initial thought, but it is nice to have the confirmation. Now I just need to figure out which is better...the ETS or ths SU (which is $50 more).

[blackdragon0731]

I would never consider upgrading the stock unit with another TMIC. Regardless of improvement youre still going to get some serious heat soak.

If you believe that pressure drops are as bad as people make them out to be, then you need to think again. Turbo lag seems to be a big issue with FMIC's with you guys as well. Although there is minor turbo lag in an FMIC over and TMIC, its imperceivable. As far as pressure drops go, getting a really nice FMIC (such as a COBB) will afford you the lowest possible pressure drop.

Why upgrade a TMIC with another TMIC? Regardless of initial cooling improvement, you're still going to get a lot of heat-soak under the hood. Why not just go with an FMIC? You have to take into consideration the efficiency of your intercooler. Sure you can go with another TMIC, you'll gain a bit of power and efficiency, or you can just upgrade it to an FMIC. Sitting up front obviously bring in the coldest, most dense air. With it sitting up front, you'll lose hardly any efficiency.

[speed3driver]

I don't have one so i'm not talking from first hand knowledge.. but ive heard guys say the ETS TMIC has almost no pressure drop, has a very noticeable power increase, and is cold to the touch after running hard.. (almost no heat soak at all)

So yeah a FMIC might be "better" if your trying to make a lot of power.. but for most of us with turbo backs and intakes an upgraded TMIC would be a great addition and make the car run a lot better and pull a lot harder.

[blackdragon0731]

I wasn't talking about getting a power increase, although the FMIC does offer that.

I'm just offering my opinion, you can compare any good FMIC for our car and any TMIC, your pressure drop will be minimal and the power and cooling improvement will be more than enough to balance that out with an FMIC.

But you can go with a TMIC, it's really your choice. Your intercooler shouldn't ever get too hot even after some hard driving, heat soak isn't going to make it feel hot, it's going to make the intercooler less efficient at cooling the air that passes through it.

FMIC or TMIC, it's up to you, but if you want a much more efficient way to cool the air, use an FMIC.

[MS3Zoom24]

I wasn't talking about getting a power increase, although the FMIC does offer that.

I'm just offering my opinion, you can compare any good FMIC for our car and any TMIC, your pressure drop will be minimal and the power and cooling improvement will be more than enough to balance that out with an FMIC.

But you can go with a TMIC, it's really your choice. Your intercooler shouldn't ever get too hot even after some hard driving, heat soak isn't going to make it feel hot, it's going to make the intercooler less efficient at cooling the air that passes through it.

FMIC or TMIC, it's up to you, but if you want a much more efficient way to cool the air, use an FMIC.
I agree with you, it is more efficient as a front mount, but for the most part a front mount is not needed unless you are building the motor up or go drag racing or autocrossing and you are sitting in the staging area waitting for your turn, which is why later this year im getting a top mount, i never run into issues where im just sitting around and begin to heat soke.

[SHaW]

I heard that the TRZ TMIC might be coming out in march or something.

[UHATEIT]

i have the ETS tmic, it rocks! I dont see any pressure drop. If there is any it might be 1/5-1 psi if that. The intercooler is very cool, engine temp is way down. WOT response is great. I noticed an increase right away. More or less the top end rpm was a big difference. It doesn't let up on the freeway. I got it for $350 on a local pickup:
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2351/4221/30877110112_large.jpg

[oaklandopen]

I would never consider upgrading the stock unit with another TMIC. Regardless of improvement youre still going to get some serious heat soak.

If you believe that pressure drops are as bad as people make them out to be, then you need to think again. Turbo lag seems to be a big issue with FMIC's with you guys as well. Although there is minor turbo lag in an FMIC over and TMIC, its imperceivable. As far as pressure drops go, getting a really nice FMIC (such as a COBB) will afford you the lowest possible pressure drop.

Why upgrade a TMIC with another TMIC? Regardless of initial cooling improvement, you're still going to get a lot of heat-soak under the hood. Why not just go with an FMIC? You have to take into consideration the efficiency of your intercooler. Sure you can go with another TMIC, you'll gain a bit of power and efficiency, or you can just upgrade it to an FMIC. Sitting up front obviously bring in the coldest, most dense air. With it sitting up front, you'll lose hardly any efficiency.

do you work at the department of redundancy department?



anywho...i would say it just depends on your need for "improvement". i agree that a top mount, no matter how good it is, will succumb to engine heat no matter what, even while moving.

if you just think about it, if you had 2 alike vehicles driving side-by-side at the same speed with the same outside temperature, and one has a topmount while the other has a front mount of the same type (material, dimensions) i think the front mount will still be just a little cooler. on the other hand, when you come to a stop, the top mount will always start heating up sooner and faster than the front mount

so what's more important to you? being able to have consistant intake temps while driving and when accellerating from a stop (better for dragstrip), or just being more efficient while driving (better for stock look)? your choice

[essejkcamraw]

i dunno bout waiting at the track for your turn. but i know traffic is pretty much the same. if not worse...

[Renzokuken]

I would hold out and wait for the TRZ. It looks damn sexy.

[madvillian]

who knows when that damn trz will actually come out, it does look killer though. go with a su tmic, i wish i would've instead of my fmic for simplicity.

[blackdragon0731]

I agree with you, it is more efficient as a front mount, but for the most part a front mount is not needed unless you are building the motor up or go drag racing or autocrossing and you are sitting in the staging area waitting for your turn, which is why later this year im getting a top mount, i never run into issues where im just sitting around and begin to heat soke.

Wait are you serious? Your engine doesn't heat soak your TMIC by sitting around.... your engine heat soaks your TMIC by running, hard driving, freeway driving, etc.

As far as intercoolers go, any TMIC is subject to heat soak... as oakland said...

but oakland clearly isn't thinking clearly talking about his side by side comparison.

You don't want your intercooler to HEAT UP faster. You want it to more efficiently gather and cool air. This means that an FMIC setup will bring in the coolest, most dense air, in addition to normally having better cooling ability due to next to no heat soak, an FMIC will perform better in just about all aspects.

So unless you want to preserve your stock appearance, go with an FMIC.

If you do your research you'll learn that the best FMIC for our speed3 (the COBB) has next to no pressure drop... in addition, the turbo lag FMIC's create due to the pressure drop is imperceptible.

Look whatever you guys think, a TMIC isn't going to be any more efficient while driving than an FMIC, and the FMIC is a tried and true way to avoid heat soak, add power, AND improve cooling considerably.

[oaklandopen]

Wait are you serious? Your engine doesn't heat soak your TMIC by sitting around.... your engine heat soaks your TMIC by running, hard driving, freeway driving, etc.

but oakland clearly isn't thinking clearly talking about his side by side comparison.

You don't want your intercooler to HEAT UP faster. You want it to more efficiently gather and cool air. This means that an FMIC setup will bring in the coolest, most dense air, in addition to normally having better cooling ability due to next to no heat soak, an FMIC will perform better in just about all aspects.
.

top mounts absolutley get heated up while just sitting around, that's when your engine is the hottest anyway. why else would radiators need fans? certainly not while moving. and as far as the intercooler is concerned: hot air is lighter can cooler air so it travels up, the top mount is up. therefore the top mount gets all the engine's heat while sitting

and intercoolers don't need denser air, they just need air flow (at least for air-to-air setups). denser air would be more for intakes, cuz you want denser air coming into the combustion chamber

[flyingm2008]

cost-wise,my ETS TMIC fit the bill for my daily driver. I even stuck with a 3". I can drive it around town, park, pop the hood, and it will be cold to the touch. Sure, if it sits for 10 minutes, radiant heat will warm it up. But if I drive it for a few minutes, it cools off.

It depends on your plans, and budget. If I had 2x the $ to spend, I would for sure have gotten a CPE FMIC. But I don't have the funds, and I know of so many others who have had them for a long time and are happy.

[blackdragon0731]

top mounts absolutley get heated up while just sitting around, that's when your engine is the hottest anyway. why else would radiators need fans? certainly not while moving. and as far as the intercooler is concerned: hot air is lighter can cooler air so it travels up, the top mount is up. therefore the top mount gets all the engine's heat while sitting

and intercoolers don't need denser air, they just need air flow (at least for air-to-air setups). denser air would be more for intakes, cuz you want denser air coming into the combustion chamber

Of course they need air flow, but air flow that is already cooler and more dense will provide a more efficient means of cooling. Cool dense air is great for intakes, hence why we have short raim and cold air intakes that bring in just that. But cooling off air that is cooler to begin with provides even cooler air as a result.

[Circle9]

Put into consideration that a TMIC costs $400-$500 less than a FMIC. Use the extra $$ for a DP or tune.

[Abilor]

Walking into this and deciding to vomit text anyway, is this possibly a case where an upgraded TMIC is a HUGE improvement, and a FMIC is an AWESOME improvement? I want to upgrade this summer (HOT in Louisiana), and aim to prevent heat soak, but I'm not autocrossing or drag racing, just tearing it up around town. Would I *need* a FMIC, or would a great TMIC provide significant improvements for quite a bit less money and install trouble? Bear in mind I'm in bed with the bank, and might have to get it off in a hurry if I need warrant service.

And does anybody have links to that TRZ TMIC? I'm becoming a TRZ poster child...

[Circle9]

Maybe a little off-topic, but looks like there have been some fitment issues with the ETS, has anyone had problems with the SU TMIC?

[oaklandopen]

Walking into this and deciding to vomit text anyway, is this possibly a case where an upgraded TMIC is a HUGE improvement, and a FMIC is an AWESOME improvement? I want to upgrade this summer (HOT in Louisiana), and aim to prevent heat soak, but I'm not autocrossing or drag racing, just tearing it up around town. Would I *need* a FMIC, or would a great TMIC provide significant improvements for quite a bit less money and install trouble? Bear in mind I'm in bed with the bank, and might have to get it off in a hurry if I need warrant service.

And does anybody have links to that TRZ TMIC? I'm becoming a TRZ poster child...

Considering you just want some improvement and nothing too extreme...I'd say topmount

[flyingm2008]

Maybe a little off-topic, but looks like there have been some fitment issues with the ETS, has anyone had problems with the SU TMIC?

The only issues with the ETS were with the 3.5" unit, you just need a rear motor mount and it will not hit the firewall. The engine was just moving too much. My 3" is just fine with the stock motor mount.

[brooklynspeed3]

that was my fear about the fmic. the turbo lag i heard it sucks. im not looking to push 500+hp you know i just want some power gain is it still worth getting the fmic

[AutoEuphoria]

Well, one thing you might also want to think about is how terrible a bit of turbo lag actually would be on a powerful FWD car. A bit of lag would help spread out the power a little instead of having a giant spike. Just a thought.

[SuperStretch18]

My reasons for not going front mount:

- better cooling for the radiator and other cooling components (heat is an issue for our engines)
- don't have to worry about a fender bender breaking one
- Easy to swap in and out

A well designed FMIC won't have much more lag than a top mount, so that's not really an issue. And lag isn't the same as boost threshold anyway, so even if it did; that wouldn't mean initial spool would take longer.

No heatsoak and more powar was tempting though!

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

Walking into this and deciding to vomit text anyway, is this possibly a case where an upgraded TMIC is a HUGE improvement, and a FMIC is an AWESOME improvement? I want to upgrade this summer (HOT in Louisiana), and aim to prevent heat soak, but I'm not autocrossing or drag racing, just tearing it up around town. Would I *need* a FMIC, or would a great TMIC provide significant improvements for quite a bit less money and install trouble?


...and we have a winner.
Not mentioned often, but one of the two huge advantages of a TMIC is easy, undetectable reversability.
From everything I have read, I am of the opinion that an FMIC has advantages for people who sit still with their cars running (drag racers) and those doing significant modding that actually need the extra cooling capacity. The average modder who just wants a little extra oomph and isn't going crazy with mods should be fine with a TMIC and love the gains from the improved flow capacity. Don't forget that an engine is an air pump. The easier it is to get air in and out, the more efficient it is and the more power it makes. The stock TMIC is restrictive. Put in a better flowing unit and you just pulled a major bottleneck out. Go with an FMIC and you get the additional advantage of seriously enhanced cooling if you need it. Not to say that an aftermarket TMIC won't improve cooling, but I think the removal of the restrictive stock unit is the biggest improvement source.

[Circle9]

I was going to get a DP next, but me thinks maybe better to get a TMIC first!

[zoomdoom]

How bout this option lol dont think its available could be wrong. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1N6o94qrrg

[zoomdoom]

I dont know if it would be best idea for dealer visits though haha

[ms6acton]

I was going to get a DP next, but me thinks maybe better to get a TMIC first!

+1

[Circle9]

Now to choose between SU and ETS.

Autoexe was a no brainer, $1200+?!

[steven88]

TMIC is the way to go if you are looking for balance...hp, ease of install, price, etc...the winner is TMIC...end of story...the only con I can think of is heat soak...but that might not be too much of a concern for the OP...if balance is key, go TMIC from SU or ETS

heck, I would try to pick one up for used and maybe save yourself some $$$...now that would be great deal!

[gr3y]

I would never consider upgrading the stock unit with another TMIC. Regardless of improvement youre still going to get some serious heat soak.

If you believe that pressure drops are as bad as people make them out to be, then you need to think again. Turbo lag seems to be a big issue with FMIC's with you guys as well. Although there is minor turbo lag in an FMIC over and TMIC, its imperceivable. As far as pressure drops go, getting a really nice FMIC (such as a COBB) will afford you the lowest possible pressure drop.

Why upgrade a TMIC with another TMIC? Regardless of initial cooling improvement, you're still going to get a lot of heat-soak under the hood. Why not just go with an FMIC? You have to take into consideration the efficiency of your intercooler. Sure you can go with another TMIC, you'll gain a bit of power and efficiency, or you can just upgrade it to an FMIC. Sitting up front obviously bring in the coldest, most dense air. With it sitting up front, you'll lose hardly any efficiency.

QFT. If you have the money.. FMIC ftw.

[coyfish]

QFT. If you have the money.. FMIC ftw.

For most people the money isnt the problem. If your paying 600 bucks for a new TMIC you can hold off a little longer to save up for a FMIC. The issue at least for me was time. I love installing things on my car but installing a FMIC (the first couple times) takes at least 5 hours. God forbid something goes wrong in your car down the road and you need to take a dealer visit. There goes an entire day of installing stuff.

I say, if you have the TIME, then definately go for a FMIC. I live in FL and I have the SU TMIC. TMIC's are succeptible to heat soak but people who have not upgraded their top mounts shouldn't really speak for them. The difference is night and day (keep in mind I felt no change in power when I installed my test pipe / CAI). Its not like as soon as you stop BAM !! heat soaked. It has to be very sunny / relatively hot with you sitting for a couple minutes or stop and go traffic. Its not like your going anywhere in stop and go anyway . . . And lights are rarely over a 2 minute wait. Not to mention the IC cools much faster than stock.

That being said if you have the time, or warranty is no worry for you, than go for a FMIC. If not than TMIC is your best option hands down.

[SallySpeed3]

I don't have an upgraded intercooler, but when I do get one, it will be a TMIC. It's half the price and you can install it yourself, that saves a couple hundred bucks right there. Only question is which to get. ETS or SU? has anyone even bothered with autoexe?

[zoomdoom]

Does anyone on here have this bad boy nobody talks about it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1N6o94qrrg

[hyperpasta]

Hey?

What happens if the inner core springs a small leak?
Could you see it leak?
How much does the system weight?
And what type of pump circulates the coolant?
Wonder what the parasitic hp loss is to drive the pump?



Does anyone on here have this bad boy nobody talks about it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1N6o94qrrg

[hyperpasta]

Yeah!

What if the ground temp is like 150 degrees, like in the desert areas on the blacktop and your sucking up all of the radiant rising heat with a FMIC intercooler? I'm thinking the higher wind stream or the higher intake of a TMIC would be a bit cooler, in this type of situation. I've got photos of a thermometer at 163F degrees in the dirt while crossing the desert!

I wonder?




I don't have an upgraded intercooler, but when I do get one, it will be a TMIC. It's half the price and you can install it yourself, that saves a couple hundred bucks right there. Only question is which to get. ETS or SU? has anyone even bothered with autoexe?

[Circle9]

ETS 3.25 TMIC - $565
SU TMIC - $595
Autoexe - $1215 at SU, $1499 at PG

The Autoexe does look a little nicer than the other two, but for the money, I don't think its worth it.

[coyfish]

SU vs ETS

I have the SU. Overall honestly both will perform the same. The SU is 3.25 core size. The SU however is clearly put together better. The welds are clean and the finish is perfect. I was already paying 565 so for 35 bucks more it was worth it for me.

ETS doesn't look bad but just look at the pics on the SU site. You can tell just from that.

As for the autoexe. I don't think anyone has ever bought that thing.

[Circle9]

What Coyfish said, just look at the pictures of the ETS and the SU side by side. The ETS looks like they were in a hurry to attach the shroud to the core, while SU appears to have taken a little time on their version.

Coyfish, can you take a pic of the SU TMIC in your engine bay?

[coyfish]

What Coyfish said, just look at the pictures of the ETS and the SU side by side. The ETS looks like they were in a hurry to attach the shroud to the core, while SU appears to have taken a little time on their version.

Coyfish, can you take a pic of the SU TMIC in your engine bay?

Yeah Ill post one tonight or tommorow for sure.

[john blutarski]

RE Amemiya makes a TMIC for us too

[steven88]

RE Amemiya makes a TMIC for us too

i bet you that thing will cost $2000

(drinks)

[john blutarski]

i bet you that thing will cost $2000

(drinks)

I think like $1500 but yeah if ya want to be different, go for it (band)

[ms6acton]

and if u have more money then god lol

[Trader]

Yeah Ill post one tonight or tommorow for sure.

Did you ever get any pics??

[dukebrown]

Put in a L2A IC . Love it. Left the camera 430miles away. Hell my car is my only hobby besides hunting and weight lifting. I had to do it.

[coyfish]

oh crap i completely forgot about those pics! Ill have a pick up tommorow afternoon around 1pm when I get out of class.

[Circle9]

Hehe, I was just about to PM Coyfish about some pics!!

[coyfish]

There ya go guys! I have a few more pics from side angles if you want me to show just let me know.

[Circle9]

Side angles please!

[Flightmedic]

There ya go guys! I have a few more pics from side angles if you want me to show just let me know.

is this polished or natural finish?

[Circle9]

I'm pretty sure that's a natural finish.

Coyfish - were there any instal problems? Some of the people that installed their ETS had issues with matching up some of the rear IC piping.

[coyfish]

Yeah thats the natural finish. The install was pretty painless. Hardest part was taking the stock IC out because the stock hoses were on their good. The rear piping is kinked slightly though. The problem is not with the design but the fact that its just bigger which is why both the ETS and SU have the problem. Its really not that big of a deal. The hose just has a little kink that bends the hose slightly. My girlfriends birthday is today and i have class untill 6 so i don't think ill have time but tommorow ill post the rest of the pics / see if I can take a picture of the little kink.

The install took me like 10 minutes but I did it at my parents house so my dad helped get the tubing on the IC as I held it. Makes the job a bit easier.

[PaPaSpeed]

I just ordered the SU. I was just wondering, is there a gasket between the IC and the cold pipe?

[steven88]

I just ordered the SU. I was just wondering, is there a gasket between the IC and the cold pipe?

yes there is...you can reuse the stock one

[PaPaSpeed]

Thanks. I thought I may have to order one real fast. I should be ok now.
Thanks again.

[meicalnissyen]

Looking into intercooler upgrades...I'm looking for a unit that provides a good upgrade in cooling over the stock unit, but does not see a substantial amount of pressure drop. So, is an upgraded TMIC the way to go?

has anyone added a sprayer to the intercooler??

[UHATEIT]

I have the ETS and my shroud isn't attatched by weld like has been mentioned as a difference between the ets and the su. Mine had 4 bolts that hold the shroud on just like the su appears to have. So as far as an attatchment weld there is no issue on mine.

Only difference between the su and the ets appears to be a polished finish on the sides of the ic itself. The shroud and everything else is the same. So it appears you're pying an extra $35 for a polished side on the ic. Which is all fine if you want ot to be polished. Tho the coldpipe is textured, so the ETS matches the coldpipe better and looks mroe stock than the polished SU.

Unless you pop the hood you'll never notice the difference. If it was an fmic that can be seen from the outside I'd go with a polished look that stands out and looks better. But for the tmic, you never see it so the extra $35 for a polished look wouldnt matter to me.

Also, since the textured ets matches the textured coldpipe, if a cop pulls you over and asks to pop the hood, it would look more stock looking with a testured tmic as opposed to the polished look and he might not even notice that its aftermarket where as the more detail the piece has the more suspiscion the cop might think. That's something else to think about, If they questioned your intercooler you could just say you took the cover off of it, whereas the polished piece would clearly look like an upgraded performance part and you could get a referee ticket for something like that at least here in CA.

sorry for blabbing, but thats my 2 pennies right there, not knocking the su, it looks sweet, but you dont see it from the outside so it wouldnt be worth the extra price for me personally.

[Circle9]

Just ordered a SU TMIC and boost tubes as well!!

[coyfish]

yay

[Circle9]

Thanks. I thought I may have to order one real fast. I should be ok now.
Thanks again.

Something wrong with your stock TMIC?

[Flightmedic]

Something wrong with your stock TMIC?

He was talking about a gasket...

[clos561]

at first i always agreed with tmic and shit because of "lag" but i am going to get a fmic in a few weeks hopefully. I want my temps down and thats the only thing thats gona work in city driving and at the track. Cold air = FTW

[coyfish]

Lag really isnt the issue. The turbo is so small it spools just fine.

The issue is the install / price / warranty aspect

[speed3driver]

I have the SU TMIC and i love it.. You can defiantly feel a power increase and the intercooler itself is much bigger than stock.
Another thing i noticed was it helped my A/F ratios. I was running rich and getting into the 9's WOT and after i installed the SU TMIC i'm staying between 11 and 14 all the time.

[Circle9]

Just installed my SU TMIC today!! Going to be testing it out tomorrow. Question, does the "raw" finish on the SU IC sort of look shiny and polished, or does it look like the stock IC's finish?

Edit: Can anyone tell me where I can find some OBX boost tubes at?

[coyfish]

Just installed my SU TMIC today!! Going to be testing it out tomorrow. Question, does the "raw" finish on the SU IC sort of look shiny and polished, or does it look like the stock IC's finish?

Edit: Can anyone tell me where I can find some OBX boost tubes at?

Looks shinier. Not as shiny as polished but definately shiny :).

[ncspeed21]

anybody have any reviews on the turbine tech Water/air intercooler??
it looks good and i might be interested.

[Flightmedic]

no it hasnt been shipped yet