Overfilling oil can clog a brand new EGR valve

[grindMARC]

I put about a quart and a half too much oil in my P5 by mistake. It was parked on a bit more of an incline than I had thought and I guess there was a bunch left in the oil pan when I put the plug back in and pour 4 quarts in.

According to the stealership, it was just enough of an overfill for oil to get sucked up into the intake and clog up A BRAND SPANKING NEW EGR valve in just a couple of days.

Worse, this all happened during the diagnosis of a idle issue. A new MAF fixed that problem. But while that was being worked on, the dreaded 'stuck open' EGR symptoms crept up. It developed this horrible hesitation at "tip in" on the throttle. The throttle could push through the hesitation, but it was not pleasant!

2 Lessons here. 1) always check the oil level even if you think you drained it all out and put exactly the right amount of oil back in. 2) never change or check your oil on an incline! Yes, automotive basics 101!!

Before anyone jumps on me with the "dumbass replies," keep in mind I'm taking one for the team here posting up my embarassing story!

[slavrenz]

Those stories are embarassing (and you are braver than me for posting yours here), but they are all part of that great learning experience that comes with doing your own maintenance ;)

[wiprotege5]

With you research, we have all learned a lesson here.

I will never overfill my oil!

[Sveivo]

4 quarts is still extremely over full on this car. Perhaps this is a lesson for next time?

[bgibb68]

yeah considering the p5 needs just over 3.5 quarts.....puttin .5 of a quart over is still a good bit

[Sveivo]

yeah considering the p5 needs just over 3.5 quarts.....puttin .5 of a quart over is still a good bit

Actually mine reaches the full mark with around 3.3 quarts put in (dunno)

[bgibb68]

is that before or after you turn the motor to get oil in the filter and system???

[Sveivo]

is that before or after you turn the motor to get oil in the filter and system???

Yes, that is after. If I do 3.5 quarts it actually covers the letter F on the dipstick, which is technically over full.

[bgibb68]

that's wierd.....i put in just over 3.5 and mine is just below the F


edit: and the manual calls for 3.7

[Sveivo]

that's wierd.....i put in just over 3.5 and mine is just below the F


edit: and the manual calls for 3.7

You're right, that is weird. :)

edit: yes it does. I've had this car for 4 year and put over 100K miles on it. And I still get the same result every time :D

[bgibb68]

yeah so do i....sorry i'm good at math...not spellin haha


edit: only i've had mine 6yrs and 103k

[Sveivo]

yeah so do i....sorry i'm good at math...not spellin haha


edit: only i've had mine 6yrs and 103k

There are some members on here that actually have the same experience as me. I think they must have updated some part on the car or what have you to eliminate this issue. It might have to do with build date or whatnot. I really have no idea.

[bgibb68]

my dakota takes 4 quarts of oil.....but it's the 3.9 v6

[Guvner]

I'm curious to know where the oil got into the intake to the point of actually getting into the EGR. Was it the PCV?

[el_Don]

Wow I would have never guessed that it would be caused by just over-filling.

[bgibb68]

unless it's probably from more oil being blown out the top of the valve cover....some guy had posted up about doing a DIY oil catch can but he was abducted by aliens or something

edit: i've had my p5 new since the end of 02 and i just cleaned the intake mani and it was NASTY black as well as the egr valve....i guess i'm gonna have to buy a oil catch can and new coolant res

[flash75]

I don't understand it either, the extra oil will be in the crankcase and there shouldn't be any more oil under the valve cover than usual.

Clifton

[bgibb68]

what causes higher oil pressure....more or less oil??

[Guvner]

I have looked through the service manual trying to find something I may have missed, but there is nothing. There is no way that overfilling the crankcase could possibly cause the EGR to get any oil in it, first of all the EGR recirculates exhaust gas into the intake mani so it does not suck anything from the intake manifold, it blows into the intake. Second, the only source of oil that comes from the crankcase is the PCV which comes off the valve cover and causes the usual oil slick within the intake manifold, the oil in the valve cover comes from the cam oiling, thats it. So unless you fill the crankcase to the oil cap with oil there is no way oil would get into the intake significantly enough to clog an EGR.
Sadly grindMARC I think you got hosed by the dealer....unless someone can prove me wrong here.

[grindMARC]

I have looked through the service manual trying to find something I may have missed, but there is nothing. There is no way that overfilling the crankcase could possibly cause the EGR to get any oil in it, first of all the EGR recirculates exhaust gas into the intake mani so it does not suck anything from the intake manifold, it blows into the intake. Second, the only source of oil that comes from the crankcase is the PCV which comes off the valve cover and causes the usual oil slick within the intake manifold, the oil in the valve cover comes from the cam oiling, thats it. So unless you fill the crankcase to the oil cap with oil there is no way oil would get into the intake significantly enough to clog an EGR.
Sadly grindMARC I think you got hosed by the dealer....unless someone can prove me wrong here.

Hosed? Hardly! They spent 6+ hours chasing this down (I kept telling them the EGR was brand new so they didn't check it) but they only charged me for 1.5 hours labor. The car runs like a top (new MAF might have helped this) and my wife is pleased as punch!!

Feel free to call the stealership and ask them about it. Ask for Johnny at Reedmans Mazda service in Langhorne PA.

Any ideas if seafoaming the motor twice via the vac hose might have caused this? That was the only thing I did that I never mentioned to them. PCV was also brand new.

[Guvner]

You said that the dealer told you that overfilling the oil caused the EGR to fail, that there is BS. I have no doubt your car had some problems, but my point is that too much oil does not equal EGR failure. Just because the dealer says something doesn't mean its correct, I had a dealer tell me my brand new tires would not pass safety because they were too worn.

[Steel]

Considering i put in a full 5 quarts in at every change (10k miles with full synthetic) and this hasn't killed my EGR, i will claim shenanigans on the dealership.

[Sveivo]

Considering i put in a full 5 quarts in at every change (10k miles with full synthetic) and this hasn't killed my EGR, i will claim shenanigans on the dealership.

And you do this why?

I guess I haven't really looked critically at how the EGR valve would be affected by overfilling. What I don't get is why some people purposely overfill.

[P-Funk!]

^Yeah! Overfilling (if so much) the oil level is above the crank - you create stress and froth the oil. BadBadBad.

4qt with the bigger (Millenia) oil filter FTW! ;)

[bgibb68]

1. out cars barley handle a lil over 3 qt of oil and you are putting in 5?? dear lord so not good for motors


2. bigger oilfilter? do you know the size? and does it just screw right on.....i hate how small our filters are

[mx-p5]

I run the Millenia oil filter as well with 4 quarts and so far no problems

[bgibb68]

I run the Millenia oil filter as well with 4 quarts and so far no problems

i will most def check this out....is the one for the milinia the same size nipple and just bigger(longer) or something

[mx-p5]

It's just a bigger filter. Screws on just the same, but isn't an inch and a half long

And, it still fits EVEN with a Prosport Sandwich plate

[bgibb68]

It's just a bigger filter. Screws on just the same, but isn't an inch and a half long

And, it still fits EVEN with a Prosport Sandwich plate

awesome man...thanks for that....hell i was half tempted to find the relocation kit so i can run a bigger filter

[Sveivo]

Millenia filter is bigger than the 626 filter? 626 filter is huge.

I've been debating using a larger filter. What's the point really, except the intuitive "bigger is better" argument?

I mean, Mazda fitted the FS-DE with a smaller filter for reason. Y/N?



2. bigger oilfilter? do you know the size? and does it just screw right on.....i hate how small our filters are

Yeah, the filter for 2002 Mazda 626 2.5L fits and is about twice as tall, but see my concern above.

[bgibb68]

ok....the way i understand it is that a bigger filter works multitude of ways.....alows more whatever through at the same rate and also will filter better....

look at it like airfilters.....i just put a cai on and the filter probably has 2x the surface area than the stock airbox one allowing more airflow....and personally i have seen a filter as small as the one on the fsde motor....i actually twinged when i saw it for the first time....i've seen fuel filters bigger

[i12drivemyMP5]

Always been doin the 626 filter on my car with 4 qts. No issues to report.

[flash75]

If you look at NAPA filter specifications their filters for the Millenia and the Protege 5, both flow 9-10 GPM and their micron rating is 19. The bigger Millenia filter doesn't flow any better nor filter better. It does have bigger filter media and perhaps would take longer to clog if you let the oil get dirty enough. Otherwise there seems to be little or no advantage gained by using the bigger filter

http://www.napafilters.com/filterlookup/index2.asp?Section=1&Make=47&SubMake=&Model=526&SubModel=-1&Engine=&Year=2002&TempSection=1&TempMake=47&TempModel=526&TempEngine=&TempSubModel=-1&TempYear=2002

http://www.napafilters.com/filterlookup/index2.asp?Section=1&Make=47&SubMake=&Model=511&SubModel=-1&Engine=&Year=2002&TempSection=1&TempMake=47&TempModel=511&TempEngine=&TempSubModel=-1&TempYear=2002

Clifton

[Sveivo]

If you look at NAPA filter specifications their filters for the Millenia and the Protege 5, both flow 9-10 GPM and their micron rating is 19. The bigger Millenia filter doesn't flow any better nor filter better. It does have bigger filter media and perhaps would take longer to clog if you let the oil get dirty enough. Otherwise there seems to be little or no advantage gained by using the bigger filter

http://www.napafilters.com/filterlookup/index2.asp?Section=1&Make=47&SubMake=&Model=526&SubModel=-1&Engine=&Year=2002&TempSection=1&TempMake=47&TempModel=526&TempEngine=&TempSubModel=-1&TempYear=2002

http://www.napafilters.com/filterlookup/index2.asp?Section=1&Make=47&SubMake=&Model=511&SubModel=-1&Engine=&Year=2002&TempSection=1&TempMake=47&TempModel=511&TempEngine=&TempSubModel=-1&TempYear=2002

Clifton
That was my point exactly. The advantage is marginal. Yes, it's got more filter area, but it would take tens of thousands of miles for it to really matter.

ok....the way i understand it is that a bigger filter works multitude of ways.....alows more whatever through at the same rate and also will filter better....

look at it like airfilters.....i just put a cai on and the filter probably has 2x the surface area than the stock airbox one allowing more airflow....and personally i have seen a filter as small as the one on the fsde motor....i actually twinged when i saw it for the first time....i've seen fuel filters bigger
I see your point and I don't mean to nitpick, but it's a known fact that you lose low-end torque with an aftermarket intake setup. With turbo, sure it's worth it, but with NA, the mod is not worth it for me.

edit: And the key is to make a good amount of torque for as long as possible in each given gear, so peak torque at 6500 rpm or whatever is really not relevant.

[niky]

But the stock intake usually strangles the induction pathway so much that anything is an improvement, as long as you don't go too large and lose that mid-range.

A larger oil filter helps in that it allows you to run more oil. More oil means more protection from lateral-G induced oil starvation, and more fluid medium to absorb heat. That's at least half of the benefit of an oil cooler. An oil cooler set-up has more oil to resist starvation, more fluid medium to absorb heat, and a heat exchanger to remove that heat from the fluid.

I wonder if my engine would have survived without the cooler? I did one road trip of just over an hour spending about half that time close to redline, with some stretches where the car is pegged to redline. (disclaimer: I don't live in the United States). When we got to our destination, in the middle of absolutely nowhere... I was over 1 liter down... but thanks to the oil cooler, my capacity is about 5-6 liters, so the engine was still well oiled and I got home with no problems.

[KrayzieFox]

4 quarts with the 626 filter here as well. No issues for several years now..

[MazdaSpeeder]

If you look at NAPA filter specifications their filters for the Millenia and the Protege 5, both flow 9-10 GPM and their micron rating is 19. The bigger Millenia filter doesn't flow any better nor filter better. It does have bigger filter media and perhaps would take longer to clog if you let the oil get dirty enough. Otherwise there seems to be little or no advantage gained by using the bigger filter

http://www.napafilters.com/filterlookup/index2.asp?Section=1&Make=47&SubMake=&Model=526&SubModel=-1&Engine=&Year=2002&TempSection=1&TempMake=47&TempModel=526&TempEngine=&TempSubModel=-1&TempYear=2002

http://www.napafilters.com/filterlookup/index2.asp?Section=1&Make=47&SubMake=&Model=511&SubModel=-1&Engine=&Year=2002&TempSection=1&TempMake=47&TempModel=511&TempEngine=&TempSubModel=-1&TempYear=2002

Clifton

Why are the part numbers the same for different filters? The height and width specs are different, but the part number is the same. I don't understand.

I use the 626 and the extra oil makes me feel better. Plus, there's more filter media, so one way or another, it makes a difference. I'm fine accepting that it's a very small one.