MS3 Sport ready for audio upgrade

[CHICO2003]

So ever since I picked up my new MS3 this past Saturday, I've been contemplating how best to handle the 'audio issue'. You see, I'm coming from a car with a pretty badass setup. Though I don't listen to nearly as much music in the car as I used to (lots of sports talk, audio books, etc.) I still want a halfway decent setup.

So I thought about getting an aftermarket indash nav system like an AVIC-D3 (What I had in my MSP) As much as I like that system though... I just don't think it would look right in the MS3. Say what you want about the sound quality of the stock system... I dig the look of it and don't really wanna mess with it unless it makes no sense not to.

I've also come to realize that I don't really need the nav functions nearly as much as I thought. I guess I was relying on it a bit too heavily... even for times when I didn't need it. So I'm gonna get myself a portable unit and perhaps mount it over the 'passenger side airbag light' next to the cig lighter. As long as it works down there, I think I can wire it up so that it's powered by the cig lighter in the center console.

So yeah... back to my main question.

If I'm gonna leave the stock (btw... I've got the Sport) HU... I'm naturally gonna upgrade everything else I can starting with the speakers. That said, with a high quality aftermarket HU make THAT much of a difference in sound quality? It's going to sort of suck to buy some kick ass components... only to realize that they're not reaching their full potential due to the shitty stock HU.

If by chance the HU's up to the task... is it possible to wire it up to power a sub? I don't care how high quality your speakers are... music just doesn't sound right without a little bass.

So hopefully I can get by with the stocker... along with some new speakers and a sub... I'm hopeful it'll be adequate.


Sorry for the stream of conscienceless here. It's late and... yeah, that's my excuse.

Thanks guys

[TheRealDefman]

I would wager to guess that as long as you retain stock parts, they will always be the weak link. That being said, I'm sure replacement speakers will sound much better.

[true2blue92]

I believe that putting in some quality speakers the system will sound much better. As it is my stereo (stock) sounds good its just when it gets louder like past 40 or 45 that it starts to get distorted becuase the crappy paper speakers. Like Defman said the stock HU is always gonna be weak but I think for a basic sound system it should be good enough. The only way to find out is do it tho lol.

As far as putting a sub with the stock deck... Yes its doable. They make kits to do it that are usually around $50 or so at an audio store. The downfall is, with not having a specific "sub" setting all of your bass will be directed to the sub. So even when people are talking the sub will pick up the bass. I have never heard how it sounds but I'm sure it would be decent but not the best.

You could always get speakers, sub, amp and see how it sounds and if you don't like it all there is left to do is get a new deck after you already have everything else.

[CWPspeed3]

As far as putting a sub with the stock deck... Yes its doable. They make kits to do it that are usually around $50 or so at an audio store. The downfall is, with not having a specific "sub" setting all of your bass will be directed to the sub. So even when people are talking the sub will pick up the bass. I have never heard how it sounds but I'm sure it would be decent but not the best.

You could always get speakers, sub, amp and see how it sounds and if you don't like it all there is left to do is get a new deck after you already have everything else.

As long as its setup and tuned properly a sub with the stock deck doesnt have to distort talk radio. I went with a 8" sub in the trunk with a 200w amp everything else stock and think that setup worked great for me and sounds great even up into the 40s without distortion.

[true2blue92]

As long as its setup and tuned properly a sub with the stock deck doesnt have to distort talk radio. I went with a 8" sub in the trunk with a 200w amp everything else stock and think that setup worked great for me and sounds great even up into the 40s without distortion.

Nice! I was just going off of what I've been told by some people at the audio store. They're always trying to sell tho so they were trying their hardest to reccommend me away from that so I would buy more. Maybe I'll have to try it out now tho.

[CHICO2003]

Nice... thanks guys

[Super Unique]

I can confirm that replacing the speakers and adding an amp/sub in the trunk area will transform the sound completely, and be quite usable without replacing the stock HU.

[JETsimple]

If you're not going to run an amp for your speakers, i probably wouldn't spend high $$$ on speakers that can handle 100-150 watts RMS. There's no way the stock HU is producing that and its worse to underpower a speaker than overpower it. I would probably get the best speakers you could afford that handle around 55 watts RMS.

As far as the sub amp, you could either use a LOC or get an amp with speaker inputs.

[TheRealDefman]

If you're not going to run an amp for your speakers, i probably wouldn't spend high $$$ on speakers that can handle 100-150 watts RMS. There's no way the stock HU is producing that and its worse to underpower a speaker than overpower it.

<cough cough> HORSESHIT!

http://www.bcae1.com/2ltlpwr.htm
Another great article, http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t77525.html

[mordant80]

Ok, I have the sport as well.. I replaced all the door speakers, made a huge difference, sounds great. I need to replace the tweeters as well though. When shopping for speakers I shopped for speakers with lower power handling since I know the stock HU doesn't put out that much. (using speakers designed for high power would make you have to turn the volume up more to get the same level volume you would with lower power speakers at a lower volume) That idea worked great for me, nice, loud and clean. As for a sub, the stock HU does cut out some of the lower frequencies to be friendly to the stock speakers.. this made my sub sound not so great and couldn't really get any of the low bass hits using a LOC spliced in to the back speakers. What I did eventually do is buy the MTX RE-Q. Use that instead of a LOC to connect the amp. It's designed to restore some of the bass that some stock HU's remove, that little doodad made a huge difference in the bass quality on my sub. Alot of people are happy using just a LOC, but trust me, MUCH better with the RE-Q. If you're an absolute audiophile, look in to the JL Cleansweep, and a 4 channel amp for whatever door speakers you want. More expensive route to go, but good to know there are options for turning a system with a stock HU in to a killer system.

[DaleNixon]

I replaced my sport speakers with Infinity coaxials. They sounded WAYYYY better but wouldn't get very loud at all. I broke down and instlaled a Pioneer deck and now they sound fantastic!

Of course, I rarely listen to music in the car these days (drive2)

[mordant80]

I replaced my sport speakers with Infinity coaxials. They sounded WAYYYY better but wouldn't get very loud at all. I broke down and instlaled a Pioneer deck and now they sound fantastic!

Of course, I rarely listen to music in the car these days (drive2)
That's why you don't want to get high power speakers for the stock HU, just can't get the volume out of them without more power. At first I was gonna go with a aftermarket HU, but with the piano black trim in my car, I just couldn't convince myself to do it with the dash kits available.

[DaleNixon]

I just dealt with the ugliness that ensued. It was worth it to me but I only have a Sport!

[mordant80]

I just dealt with the ugliness that ensued. It was worth it to me but I only have a Sport!

I hear ya. Mines a Sport too, but it's the 08.5. If someone came out with a dash kit that was that piano black, I'd be all over it. Curious though, were you able to get the steering wheel controls going with the new HU? I know there's kits to make that work, just never had any first hand experience with it.

[TheRealDefman]

(using speakers designed for high power would make you have to turn the volume up more to get the same level volume you would with lower power speakers at a lower volume)

Ummmmm.... No. A speaker's power rating has nothing to do with how loud it gets.

[DaleNixon]

I hear ya. Mines a Sport too, but it's the 08.5. If someone came out with a dash kit that was that piano black, I'd be all over it. Curious though, were you able to get the steering wheel controls going with the new HU? I know there's kits to make that work, just never had any first hand experience with it.

Yep, Crutchfield sells a kit that can make most steering wheel controls work with aftermarket headunits from Pioneer, Kenwood, etc. The only problem is programming them is a pain in the ass. Once programmed, there is a bit of an input lag from the steering wheel control but it's livable and you get used to it.

One user review said programming those things is harder than calculating a moon landing with an abacus.

[mordant80]

Ummmmm.... No. A speaker's power rating has nothing to do with how loud it gets.

Ummmmm... Sorry but it does. Run the same power at the same volume level to a speaker with low power ratings and one with high power ratings, the speaker with the lower ratings will be louder. Why do you think DaleNixons infinity's wouldn't get that loud??? Other variable that would affect that is the impedence of the speaker.. considering 4ohm is the norm, I doubt they were 8 ohm speakers which would be cause them to not be as loud. If they were 2 ohm, they would be louder.. but would be hard on the HU, say like over heat.

[DaleNixon]

The Infinitys are 4ohm, but yea, they handle a lot more power than the stockers.

[PCspeed3]

just buy a Cobb TBE and listen to that.....

[DaleNixon]

Troof.

[CHICO2003]

As far as getting a TBE goes...

From the book of greener grass... I'm coming from an MSP w a Vibrant TBE. I choose that one because it was supposedly the least loud one out there. Even with the silencer the thing was still a beast. I mean... it sounded good, dont' get me wrong. None of that fart can crap... but it was STILL too loud. I make a lot of calls while driving and nobody could hear shit!

so my exhaust is gonna stay stock... but that leads me to my other point. Why do people even mess with these cars? I mean, how much power do you really need anyway? I can see minor/easy/cheap mods like a CAI and what not but I've heard of people going all out... it's just crazy. Maybe I haven't been bit by the bug yet. IDK What I do know is...I only did those types of mods on the MSP cuz it was too dang slow in stock form. Even WITH all the crap I did... it's STILL not as quick as the stock MS3 so... needless to say, I'm pretty happy with its performance.

just not so much with regards to the audio...

So yeah... I'm gonna take everyone's advice and get some new components for up front and speakers for the rear. I ordered some shifter bushings from SU and understand the center console needs to come out in order to install them... so I'm just gonna tackle that, the speakers, the sub and hardwiring my new Garmin all at once. Hopefully these upgrades will suffice... Now I just gotta decide on the types of speakers. I still have no clue on how I'm gonna handle the sub but I'll at least wire it up so that it's ready to rock once I do.

Thanks again

[ecniemann]

Ummmmm... Sorry but it does. Run the same power at the same volume level to a speaker with low power ratings and one with high power ratings, the speaker with the lower ratings will be louder. Why do you think DaleNixons infinity's wouldn't get that loud??? Other variable that would affect that is the impedence of the speaker.. considering 4ohm is the norm, I doubt they were 8 ohm speakers which would be cause them to not be as loud. If they were 2 ohm, they would be louder.. but would be hard on the HU, say like over heat.

Sensitivity, in db, refers to how loud a given speaker will play with a given input. Ie: higher sensitivity = louder speaker relative to same given input. This is a function of what the speaker is made of, etc., but as far as I know, given wattage ratings have nothing to do with the "loudness" of a speaker. Efficient speakers play louder, plain and simple. A 200 W max speaker will not necessarily be louder or softer than say a 10 W max speaker if the sensitivity of the speaker and input level of the source is the same, if the speaker is the same relative size, etc.

[TheRealDefman]

Ummmmm... Sorry but it does. Run the same power at the same volume level to a speaker with low power ratings and one with high power ratings, the speaker with the lower ratings will be louder. Why do you think DaleNixons infinity's wouldn't get that loud??? Other variable that would affect that is the impedence of the speaker.. considering 4ohm is the norm, I doubt they were 8 ohm speakers which would be cause them to not be as loud. If they were 2 ohm, they would be louder.. but would be hard on the HU, say like over heat.

No, I've likely been doing this longer than you've been alive. Power rating has nothing to do with how loud it gets given equal input, sensitivity may affect it a little but most are within a few db of each other. The stock speakers should be 2-ohm and the Infinity 682.7cf's are 2-ohm.

I have no direct knowledge of what DaleNixon did or how he did it, so it would be improper for me to make a statement about that.

[squidmotion]

weighing my options on this topic as well...

i miss the system i had in my xterra... :(


the exhaust sounds better, though.. :)

[DaleNixon]

Blaaaargh I am a zombie!

[ecniemann]

No, I've likely been doing this longer than you've been alive. Power rating has nothing to do with how loud it gets given equal input, sensitivity may affect it a little but most are within a few db of each other. The stock speakers should be 2-ohm and the Infinity 682.7cf's are 2-ohm.

I have no direct knowledge of what DaleNixon did or how he did it, so it would be improper for me to make a statement about that.

A few decibels is very significant in audio, it is not a linear scale, more logarithmic. A 2 db increase is equivalent to basically double the perceived volume level.

[TheRealDefman]

A few decibels is very significant in audio, it is not a linear scale, more logarithmic. A 2 db increase is equivalent to basically double the perceived volume level.

Yeah, I know. Actually roughly 10 db is audibly twice as loud, so 2 db really isn't that much. Louder? Yes. Noticeably louder? Barely.
http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/2004-About-dB/

Never-the-less, we agree on the original point that power rating has nothing to do with volume.... *AND* Gianna is something else, isn't she?

[DaleNixon]

Gianna is something else, isn't she?

I'd buy that for a dollar.

[CHICO2003]

...As for a sub, the stock HU does cut out some of the lower frequencies to be friendly to the stock speakers.. this made my sub sound not so great and couldn't really get any of the low bass hits using a LOC spliced in to the back speakers. What I did eventually do is buy the MTX RE-Q. Use that instead of a LOC to connect the amp. It's designed to restore some of the bass that some stock HU's remove, that little doodad made a huge difference in the bass quality on my sub. Alot of people are happy using just a LOC, but trust me, MUCH better with the RE-Q. If you're an absolute audiophile, look in to the JL Cleansweep...


Damn... now I'm even more confused than ever! (but it's all good! I actually didn't even know such products existed)

So now I have yet another choice to make... LOC, MTX RE-Q or JL Cleansweep. I just did a ton of research/looking up and didn't really find anything relevant. Does anyone know if it would be a waste to get either the MTX or JL for the MS3 Sport?

[CHICO2003]

I found the REQ for $60 online so the price difference between a LOC is so slim... I'm pretty much ruling that one out. It seems the REQ merely creates a cleaner signal for your sub while the cleansweep, in addition to doing that, also cleans up the sound going to your speakers. Is this accurate? If so, (I found the Cleansweep for $150) perhaps it's worth the extra $90

[ecniemann]

I found the REQ for $60 online so the price difference between a LOC is so slim... I'm pretty much ruling that one out. It seems the REQ merely creates a cleaner signal for your sub while the cleansweep, in addition to doing that, also cleans up the sound going to your speakers. Is this accurate? If so, (I found the Cleansweep for $150) perhaps it's worth the extra $90

If I had not replaced the HU, I would have gotten a CleanSweep.

[mordant80]

No, I've likely been doing this longer than you've been alive. Power rating has nothing to do with how loud it gets given equal input, sensitivity may affect it a little but most are within a few db of each other. The stock speakers should be 2-ohm and the Infinity 682.7cf's are 2-ohm.

I have no direct knowledge of what DaleNixon did or how he did it, so it would be improper for me to make a statement about that.

Alright, smartass.. the stock speakers in the sport are 4 ohm.. period. (just looked at the ones that came out of my sport) The stock speakers in the GT with the bose system are 2 ohm. Only thing else I really have to say is go fuck yourself with your e-cock waving attitude, you don't have a clue how old I am or what my background is. Maybe do an experiment with some speakers with different power handling capibilities first hand, see what ya come up with, you might be surprised what you find out.

ALSO.. as for the underpowering a speaker statement you made earlier.... Actually yea it can hurt a speaker.

Straight from crutchfields Q&A:
Q: How does a speaker's power handling relate to the power output of a receiver or an amplifier?
A: Let's limit our discussion to RMS (continuous) power, because whether we're talking about power handling or power rating, the RMS number is always more significant than the peak number. You should pick an amplifier whose power rating is in the upper end of your speaker's power range. For example, if a speaker is rated to handle up to 35 watts of RMS power, it will perform closer to optimum as your power source approaches delivery of 35 watts. It's better to overpower a speaker than to underpower it — the distortion caused when you push a low-powered amp to its limit is much more likely to harm a speaker than too much power.


Final thought.. If your gonna keep the stock HU and use it to power the door speakers, YES IT ABSOLUTELY IS in your best interest to shop for speakers with lower power handling. If you're gonna replace the HU or use an amp to power things.. go wild.

[TheRealDefman]

Only thing else I really have to say is go fuck yourself with your e-cock waving attitude, you don't have a clue how old I am or what my background is. Maybe do an experiment with some speakers with different power handling capibilities first hand, see what ya come up with, you might be surprised what you find out.

(Chortle) The more you talk the more you reveal just how little you know.... But please, continue to pontificate on your vast knowledge of car audio and electronics. It's very entertaining to those of us who actually have it!



ALSO.. as for the underpowering a speaker statement you made earlier.... Actually yea it can hurt a speaker.

Straight from crutchfields Q&A:
Q: How does a speaker's power handling relate to the power output of a receiver or an amplifier?
A: Let's limit our discussion to RMS (continuous) power, because whether we're talking about power handling or power rating, the RMS number is always more significant than the peak number. You should pick an amplifier whose power rating is in the upper end of your speaker's power range. For example, if a speaker is rated to handle up to 35 watts of RMS power, it will perform closer to optimum as your power source approaches delivery of 35 watts. It's better to overpower a speaker than to underpower it — the distortion caused when you push a low-powered amp to its limit is much more likely to harm a speaker than too much power.

Your reading comprehension skills seem to be lacking too.... under-powering a speaker and over-driving an amp are completely different things.

[que]

(wow) I'll have to agree with sensitivity over power handling if you plan to stick with a non aplified set-up. Efficient speakers will always sound better when not aplified, but when you add an amp into the mix, efficiency is less important.

[CHICO2003]

ok... this thread is on the verge of jumping the shark (if it hasn't already) so let's quit the BS and get back on track.

I'm not looking to break the bank with my setup. I'm hopeful that the stock HU will be able to sufficiently power my speakers. Since I'll obviously need a separate amp for my sub... I'd hate to have to buy another for the speakers. So... assuming it's adaquete, should I get low or high powered speakers?

[que]

As stated in my post, if your not planning to amp your front stage then get very efficient speakers, something w/ sensitivity above 90db. Like, I think most Focals, but for a very pretty penny, which kinda defeats what your trying to do. Check specs on most high efficient speakers & you will notice that most label their RMS from 5 - to whatever watts. Not a single wattage, but in a range, reason is because more efficient speakers will be "effiecient" when given little power (HU power). As opposed to other components that are cheaper & should be amplified therefore have a sensitivity of 88db or less. So, you want cheap, but don't want to have to adjust volume high to get decent sound? That's kinda tough. Cheapest I say is keep the factory HU (which you want to do), get a decent 2 channel amp, which will give you more options as far as speakers go. Price wise I think that'll be cheaper then spending $300+ on some very efficient components.

[CHICO2003]

I feel like buying a seperate amp (not to mention paying someone to install it) sort of defeats the purpose. The cost of the amp, plus the REQ/LOC/Cleansweep & install will undoubtedly be greater than what an aftermarket deck (like the AVIC D3 that I have in my MSP) would cost. (I can get a NEW AVIC D3 for $500!) This thing's better than the AVIC F-series POS they replaced it with. AND it comes with built in NAV. Thing is.. I'm trying to keep the stock look while not breaking the bank. I suppose if I HAVE to get a separate amp to power the speakers... then I miight as well grin and bear the ugliness of having an aftermarket HU. Sort of a shame... Why couldn't Mazda just give us an F'in double din slot?

[ecniemann]

I feel like buying a seperate amp (not to mention paying someone to install it) sort of defeats the purpose. The cost of the amp, plus the REQ/LOC/Cleansweep & install will undoubtedly be greater than what an aftermarket deck (like the AVIC D3 that I have in my MSP) would cost. (I can get a NEW AVIC D3 for $500!) This thing's better than the AVIC F-series POS they replaced it with. AND it comes with built in NAV. Thing is.. I'm trying to keep the stock look while not breaking the bank. I suppose if I HAVE to get a separate amp to power the speakers... then I miight as well grin and bear the ugliness of having an aftermarket HU. Sort of a shame... Why couldn't Mazda just give us an F'in double din slot?

Yeah, that would have been nice, huh. I'd go with the CleanSweep and good, efficient speakers. Go more with what sounds best to YOU, not just what specs say. If it does not fit what you want, I'm sure there are more than enough people on Craig's List, e-bay, etc. that would be willing to buy the CleanSweep if you decide to go the new HU route.

[CHICO2003]

I found a (slightly used) Cleansweep for $150... I know it's apples to oranges but the REQ5 (can't find any used) new can be had for $100 Cleansweeps and REQ5s are $300 & $180 respectively on Crutchfield so both are good deals. I suppose the Cleansweeps the better deal... but it's also more expensive. I'm leaning towards the REQ5... not only due to the positive reviews (and built in aux) but of course, lower cost. I realize it's only $50 but... it all adds up. Am I making the wrong choice?

[ecniemann]

I found a (slightly used) Cleansweep for $150... I know it's apples to oranges but the REQ5 (can't find any used) new can be had for $100 Cleansweeps and REQ5s are $300 & $180 respectively on Crutchfield so both are good deals. I suppose the Cleansweeps the better deal... but it's also more expensive. I'm leaning towards the REQ5... not only due to the positive reviews (and built in aux) but of course, lower cost. I realize it's only $50 but... it all adds up. Am I making the wrong choice?


I don't think so, just make sure the MTX does everything you want before you buy it, so there are no surprises. Any sound shaping corrector is better than the stock system with it's odd crossover, with the cutting out of certain frequencies.

[que]

The RE-Q will work for what your trying to do. Myself, since I have the Bose HU, I'm just running an LOC. But, if I had to chose between the MTX RE-q & the Cleensweep. RE-Q for sure. Cleansweep is too pricey for what you want to aclomplish in my opinion.

[JETsimple]

<cough cough> HORSESHIT!

http://www.bcae1.com/2ltlpwr.htm
Another great article, http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t77525.html

Thanks for the insight RealDefman. Those are good reads. I was basing my info on what the Crutchfield site says, but the articles you referenced spell it out MUCH better. I learn something new everyday. (2thumbs)

[shadow1077]

Just one curious out of topic question here. Do anyone know the exact watts rating of our stock HU on MS3 sports? Like what is the rms rating? I know most of the new aftermarket HU are around 25 to 40 watts mosfet output per channel.

I was planning to replace my speakers using our stock HU with this: http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=3&series_id=33&family_id=28&item_id=91965&locale=en_US&p_status=

But I have no idea how much watts do our stock HU produce.

[car46999]

Lets clear some things up here for everyone:

Sensitivity – The sound pressure level produced by a loudspeaker, usually specified in dB, and measured at 1 meter with an input of 1 watt or 2.83 volts, typically at one or more specified frequencies.

Maximum SPL – The highest output the loudspeaker can manage, short of damage or not exceeding a particular distortion level.

It is possible to have a "lower power" (power rating) speaker play louder with less power than a "high power" speaker, and visa versa. It depends on sensitivity. Compare a horn tweeter with 5 watts, to a 18"subwoofer with 10 watts. I guarantee the horn will be louder. But the opposite can happen also, it all depends on the speakers. You can't really make a blanket statement either way just on power rating.

Even sensitivity is not a linear measurement. If you want to know which set of speakers will be louder, buy both and compare them.


The MTX RE-Q will attempt to recreate lower frequencies to add a subwoofer to a system. (Frequencies filtered by the factory headunit).
"Bass restoration signal processor Get full bass response when adding amps to a factory system". Really does not "clean anything".

The JL Cleansweep, will remove all of the factory equalization of the head unit, making the signal a "flat response". The draw back to me, is that you also have to use the volume on the JL unit so it receives a consistent signal for it to adjust. If you changed the volume on the headunit, it might change the factory equlization.
Th JL unit basically makes the factory headunit a "high end" headunit.

Before buying either, go to the mfr webpages, and read the specs, then decide what you want.

And finally every 3db increase in SPL is twice as loud. Not 10 not 2, but 3db.

[Abilor]

I have the GT with the Bose, and I just went total homebrew on the line. I have a digital pioneer monoblock at 300W RMS driving a 4ohm 12" Boston Acoustics G5 at 450W RMS max. I tapped the bose amp under the seat, ripped up a radio shack RCA, separated the positive and negative for L and R channels, and fed those preamp levels to the pioneer amp. As Emeril says, "BAM!"

The thing hits hard in a 1 cu. ft. enclosure, overflowing power, but most importantly, very VERY tight. Much tighter than my old JL 12" driven with a kicker 300W amp. My cutoff is at 160, and talk radio is clean clean clean. But I also get great levels; really low notes around 20 - 30 hz still hit hard off test scales.

I understand you don't have the same HU application, just saying for those without money leftover after good gear for a dedicated LOC or levels cleaner, perfectly serviceable and accurate bass can be had with a little solder and steady hands.

Course y'all probably knew that...

In one or two years, my MS3 is getting a car pc... shh.. don't tell her...

[TheRealDefman]

I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong, my apologies to ecniemann.

I was not aware that there was a difference measured in SPL(3db) vs. Audible(~10db), guilty of not thoroughly reading my own reference material.


And finally every 3db increase in SPL is twice as loud. Not 10 not 2, but 3db.